Yeah it will be 90% wow, with gw2 / tes hybrid combat, marginally better crafting and a "daoc lite" pvp system akin to gw2 instead of wow style instanced bollox.
daoc doesn't feature instances at all Daoc doesn't have your gear carrot chasing endgame if eq / wow Daoc doesn't have led by the nose wow style questing Daoc has housing (which isn't instanced) Players could effect the world through pvp (in a limited manner compared to a sandbox like eve), through DF access, territory held, relics held etc..
Daoc is a themepark.
But its less themeparky than games like EQ (the original themepark), Ao ( which invented bloody instances), wow (which invented linear quest hub driven pve and the sat in cities queueing to do shit end game, and solidly embraced the gear treadmill and instancing paradigm)
The ultimate in themeparkyness would be swtor.
Daoc is pretty close to the borderline, but still in the themepark camp it has more in common with hybrids like ac and just in the sandbox side games like swg than it has in common with these modern uber-themeparks like swtor, tsw, Aoc, d&do, Neverwinter & sto.
Originally posted by Xepo If you want PVE only content then wait for the next Skyrim expansion of a new installment of ES. This is an MMO and most MMOs have PVP in them. I look to play a MMO that has good PVP in it and I am hoping this game will have a nice balance for PVP, which means controlled faction choices. Not really as big a deal as many are trying to make it out to be. Most MMOs with PVP have those types of choices. WoW has faction controlled races yet people still play that game for PVP and PVE. If done well the cry babies will leave to bash a different game after a while and the true players will stick around and make the game great.
If PvP is so important to MMO's why are PvP servers the smallest populations? Seems PvP'ers are the minority.
how many of those pve servers offer optional pvp?
pvpers might be the minority but they are still a huge chunk of the mmo fan base, far too large to ignore.
there are a lot of pvpers out there and to not offer it in a game like this would not be smart.
why do you think all these other games that didn't offer pvp at launch tried to patch it in later?
i honestly don't see why people are complaining because there will be optional pvp in this game.
Although the TESO will have more in common with say tsw looking at its feature list than daoc anyway, so yeah I highly suspect TESO will be very themeparky.
I wish more developers would take CU's stance and focus on doing one thing really well rather than trying to shoehorn in elements into a game that don't belong. So yea just I like I have no wish to see PVE added to a game like CU I don't see any point in adding PVP to ESO other than some hope to draw in some short term box sales numbers. The sad truth is that's what AAA development is all about these days. Sell as many boxes as you can with shiny art and over the moon promises and don't worry if you can keep any of them.
daoc doesn't feature instances at all Daoc doesn't have your gear carrot chasing endgame if eq / wow Daoc doesn't have led by the nose wow style questing Daoc has housing (which isn't instanced) Players could effect the world through pvp (in a limited manner compared to a sandbox like eve), through DF access, territory held, relics held etc..
ShakyMo
Instance does not mean themepark
DaoC did have gear sets from dungeons and Aurulite currency for those items
Daoc had led by the nose RvR
Housing does not equal sandbox unless you can place your house everywhere. Asherons call had housing, but they were in set places so not a sandbox feature, its a themepark feature.
Players couldnt raid the other sides faction and thus not effect their enemies lands, the effects that did take place were set features in a place behind a magically walled off land fully controlled by the developers...and thus themepark.
That type of game was called themepark for a reason. An attraction to ride over and over with little change between them. In an MMO, its content is heavily driven by the DEVELOPERS from the very start where players are given a set path to follow with the developers controlling the experience and restricting the attractions offered.
Exactly what DaoC was, from the realm pride, the racial choices, the lands being controlled and segregated, from level 1 all the way to max being guided to a central place to fight over...and even limiting your ability to fight to that place only. DaoC was the first modern day themepark because even the PvP was themepark.
Originally posted by Xepo If you want PVE only content then wait for the next Skyrim expansion of a new installment of ES. This is an MMO and most MMOs have PVP in them. I look to play a MMO that has good PVP in it and I am hoping this game will have a nice balance for PVP, which means controlled faction choices. Not really as big a deal as many are trying to make it out to be. Most MMOs with PVP have those types of choices. WoW has faction controlled races yet people still play that game for PVP and PVE. If done well the cry babies will leave to bash a different game after a while and the true players will stick around and make the game great.
If PvP is so important to MMO's why are PvP servers the smallest populations? Seems PvP'ers are the minority.
how many of those pve servers offer optional pvp?
pvpers might be the minority but they are still a huge chunk of the mmo fan base, far too large to ignore.
there are a lot of pvpers out there and to not offer it in a game like this would not be smart.
why do you think all these other games that didn't offer pvp at launch tried to patch it in later?
i honestly don't see why people are complaining because there will be optional pvp in this game.
Yes, people are mad about the "optional pvp" in the game. Not that the game is centered around this optional pvp.
Just like people weren't mad about the "optional auction house" in D3. Not like it had any effect on the rest of the game.
Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others... Currently Playing: GW2
Originally posted by AlBQuirky Originally posted by DeaconX Are there sandbox elements to the game at all?
I often wonder about this, too. I have never really thought of TES games as "sandboxes." Not realy a sandbox but it have elements that are also implemented in most sandbox total freedom open world no guidance no typical quest hubs.
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Originally posted by Trudge34 Originally posted by baphametOriginally posted by HorusraOriginally posted by Xepo If you want PVE only content then wait for the next Skyrim expansion of a new installment of ES. This is an MMO and most MMOs have PVP in them. I look to play a MMO that has good PVP in it and I am hoping this game will have a nice balance for PVP, which means controlled faction choices. Not really as big a deal as many are trying to make it out to be. Most MMOs with PVP have those types of choices. WoW has faction controlled races yet people still play that game for PVP and PVE. If done well the cry babies will leave to bash a different game after a while and the true players will stick around and make the game great.
If PvP is so important to MMO's why are PvP servers the smallest populations? Seems PvP'ers are the minority.how many of those pve servers offer optional pvp?pvpers might be the minority but they are still a huge chunk of the mmo fan base, far too large to ignore.there are a lot of pvpers out there and to not offer it in a game like this would not be smart.why do you think all these other games that didn't offer pvp at launch tried to patch it in later?i honestly don't see why people are complaining because there will be optional pvp in this game.Yes, people are mad about the "optional pvp" in the game. Not that the game is centered around this optional pvp.
Just like people weren't mad about the "optional auction house" in D3. Not like it had any effect on the rest of the game.
apples and oranges.
D3's RMAH absolutely has a huge impact on the entire game and made it pay 2 win.
TESO pvp is completely optional and has no effect on the rest of the game other than the faction lock.
Yeah pve/pvp sandbox would be great but given today's current technological constraints, I ain't looking for a minecraft/skyrim hybrid. Realistic expectations and all. And I can't see it being really Elder Scrolls if it were pve only. Most of the ES games let me kill whomever, whenever and for whatever reason I wanted. The only thing I'm picky about is the social fluff, I need to be able to immerse myself in the game with other players for roleplay, on top of some great pvp. Hopefully they have that covered.
The game's PvP is not optional; Its a necessity. A lot of crafting materials, possibly even some dungeons reside in Cyrodil, the PvP zone.
The game is focused around the PvP endgame.
You may stick to non-PvP zones only, but you will lose a large chunk of the game.
With these, those who absolutely demand not participating in PvP in their MMO ever. Remove TESO from your waiting list already, this game will not be catered around PvE, its a RvR (*cough* AvA) game.
Originally posted by Xepo If you want PVE only content then wait for the next Skyrim expansion of a new installment of ES. This is an MMO and most MMOs have PVP in them. I look to play a MMO that has good PVP in it and I am hoping this game will have a nice balance for PVP, which means controlled faction choices. Not really as big a deal as many are trying to make it out to be. Most MMOs with PVP have those types of choices. WoW has faction controlled races yet people still play that game for PVP and PVE. If done well the cry babies will leave to bash a different game after a while and the true players will stick around and make the game great.
This seems to be the prevelant argument for pvp. So flawed and arrogant. So an mmo should have a huge pvp focus, or there is no point to the mmo at all. Sure. Because people wouldn't want to group up with friends to tackle some tough PvE content in and Elder Scrolls universe right? They only would want to kill each other.
Originally posted by ShakyMo It doesn't have "a huge pvp focus"
They've probably spent MORE time on pve than pvp.
Daoc was a 50/50 pve/pvp game.
You guys are making out like this game us darkfall or planetside it something. [mod edit]
Or put another way, whether they know they're doing it or not, they want it to be yet another cookie cutter MMO with heavy WOW influences.
Zmax is attempting to do an MMO that is a bit different from all the others and the same people who always knock MMOs for being the same old shit are now whining because this one isn't the same old shit.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
The game's PvP is not optional; Its a necessity. A lot of crafting materials, possibly even some dungeons reside in Cyrodil, the PvP zone.
The game is focused around the PvP endgame.
You may stick to non-PvP zones only, but you will lose a large chunk of the game.
With these, those who absolutely demand not participating in PvP in their MMO ever. Remove TESO from your waiting list already, this game will not be catered around PvE, its a RvR (*cough* AvA) game.
I don't think you have set anything straight
The pvp is optional. You say a lot of crafting materials are located in the pvp zone, which is true but why did you neglect to mention that makine your way through all the pve areas not only gives players more crafting materials and better gear but it also allows skills to become stronger? I do believe they said that there are multiple ways one can improve your character and that a player can either spend their time in the pvp zone or spend it in the pve zone and "not be gimped".
Secondly you don't know if the game is centered around the pvp endgame since there are larger pve things to do in the pve world. If anyting it's more like GW2 in that a player can go to Cyrodill at level 10 (and be boosted to top level) but a player doesn't ever have to rely upon pvp.
Quite frankly I hope you haven't spread disinformation.
Specifically, I asked Sage to describe ZeniMax's strategy for keeping players occupied once they hit the level cap at 50. His reply included four main activities: questing in enemy alliance zones, four-player dungeons, adventure zones, and the PvP alliance war in Cyrodiil. Read on for all of the details I gleaned from the interview!
So it sounds like there are "4 main" activities". No "one" is set above another.
The game's PvP is not optional; Its a necessity. A lot of crafting materials, possibly even some dungeons reside in Cyrodil, the PvP zone.
The game is focused around the PvP endgame.
You may stick to non-PvP zones only, but you will lose a large chunk of the game.
With these, those who absolutely demand not participating in PvP in their MMO ever. Remove TESO from your waiting list already, this game will not be catered around PvE, its a RvR (*cough* AvA) game.
I don't think you have set anything straight
The pvp is optional. You say a lot of crafting materials are located in the pvp zone, which is true but why did you neglect to mention that makine your way through all the pve areas not only gives players more crafting materials and better gear but it also allows skills to become stronger? I do believe they said that there are multiple ways one can improve your character and that a player can either spend their time in the pvp zone or spend it in the pve zone and "not be gimped".
Secondly you don't know if the game is centered around the pvp endgame since there are larger pve things to do in the pve world. If anyting it's more like GW2 in that a player can go to Cyrodill at level 10 (and be boosted to top level) but a player doesn't ever have to rely upon pvp.
Quite frankly I hope you haven't spread disinformation.
Specifically, I asked Sage to describe ZeniMax's strategy for keeping players occupied once they hit the level cap at 50. His reply included four main activities: questing in enemy alliance zones, four-player dungeons, adventure zones, and the PvP alliance war in Cyrodiil. Read on for all of the details I gleaned from the interview!
So it sounds like there are "4 main" activities". No "one" is set above another.
reading over the article it seems that pvp is "one pillar" in the ESO endgame.
Actually I tend to agree with him more than you.
We don't know what resources are found only in Cyrodiil (if any) and I assume they will all be tradable. I think you're right in that it could be played and enjoyed by some without ever setting foot in Cyrodiil.
However, it's pretty clear to me that their showcase is Cyrodiil and the story line points to the 3-sided alliance war there.
In DaoC it was also possible to just PvE and later on, after they strapped-on their water skis and took a flying leap over the shark, they even created co-op PvE servers once Blizzard and WOW had showed them the way to the promised land full of money for nothing and chicks for free.
But it would be hard to argue that DAoC was not about the RvR and it wil be hard to argue against that here as well--level 50 PvE activities notwithstanding.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
The game's PvP is not optional; Its a necessity. A lot of crafting materials, possibly even some dungeons reside in Cyrodil, the PvP zone.
The game is focused around the PvP endgame.
You may stick to non-PvP zones only, but you will lose a large chunk of the game.
With these, those who absolutely demand not participating in PvP in their MMO ever. Remove TESO from your waiting list already, this game will not be catered around PvE, its a RvR (*cough* AvA) game.
I don't think you have set anything straight
The pvp is optional. You say a lot of crafting materials are located in the pvp zone, which is true but why did you neglect to mention that makine your way through all the pve areas not only gives players more crafting materials and better gear but it also allows skills to become stronger? I do believe they said that there are multiple ways one can improve your character and that a player can either spend their time in the pvp zone or spend it in the pve zone and "not be gimped".
Secondly you don't know if the game is centered around the pvp endgame since there are larger pve things to do in the pve world. If anyting it's more like GW2 in that a player can go to Cyrodill at level 10 (and be boosted to top level) but a player doesn't ever have to rely upon pvp.
Quite frankly I hope you haven't spread disinformation.
Specifically, I asked Sage to describe ZeniMax's strategy for keeping players occupied once they hit the level cap at 50. His reply included four main activities: questing in enemy alliance zones, four-player dungeons, adventure zones, and the PvP alliance war in Cyrodiil. Read on for all of the details I gleaned from the interview!
So it sounds like there are "4 main" activities". No "one" is set above another.
reading over the article it seems that pvp is "one pillar" in the ESO endgame.
Actually I tend to agree with him more than you.
We don't know what resources are found only in Cyrodiil (if any) and I assume they will all be tradable. I think you're right in that it could be played and enjoyed by some without ever setting foot in Cyrodiil.
However, it's pretty clear to me that their showcase is Cyrodiil and the story line points to the 3-sided alliance war there.
In DaoC it was also possible to just PvE and later on, after they strapped-on their water skis and took a flying leap over the shark, they even created co-op PvE servers once Blizzard and WOW had showed them the way to the promised land full of money for nothing and chicks for free.
But it would be hard to argue that DAoC was not about the RvR and it wil be hard to argue against that here as well--level 50 PvE activities notwithstanding.
Hey it's their words...
there are 4 end game activities.. not one activity where all roads lead to.
Additionally, I do believe there is a video itnerview where they indicate that players don't have to pvp. I just didn't "say that" because I can't link to it yet as I need to go through the available videos.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The game's PvP is not optional; Its a necessity. A lot of crafting materials, possibly even some dungeons reside in Cyrodil, the PvP zone.
The game is focused around the PvP endgame.
You may stick to non-PvP zones only, but you will lose a large chunk of the game.
With these, those who absolutely demand not participating in PvP in their MMO ever. Remove TESO from your waiting list already, this game will not be catered around PvE, its a RvR (*cough* AvA) game.
I don't think you have set anything straight
The pvp is optional. You say a lot of crafting materials are located in the pvp zone, which is true but why did you neglect to mention that makine your way through all the pve areas not only gives players more crafting materials and better gear but it also allows skills to become stronger? I do believe they said that there are multiple ways one can improve your character and that a player can either spend their time in the pvp zone or spend it in the pve zone and "not be gimped".
Secondly you don't know if the game is centered around the pvp endgame since there are larger pve things to do in the pve world. If anyting it's more like GW2 in that a player can go to Cyrodill at level 10 (and be boosted to top level) but a player doesn't ever have to rely upon pvp.
Quite frankly I hope you haven't spread disinformation.
Specifically, I asked Sage to describe ZeniMax's strategy for keeping players occupied once they hit the level cap at 50. His reply included four main activities: questing in enemy alliance zones, four-player dungeons, adventure zones, and the PvP alliance war in Cyrodiil. Read on for all of the details I gleaned from the interview!
So it sounds like there are "4 main" activities". No "one" is set above another.
reading over the article it seems that pvp is "one pillar" in the ESO endgame.
Actually I tend to agree with him more than you.
We don't know what resources are found only in Cyrodiil (if any) and I assume they will all be tradable. I think you're right in that it could be played and enjoyed by some without ever setting foot in Cyrodiil.
However, it's pretty clear to me that their showcase is Cyrodiil and the story line points to the 3-sided alliance war there.
In DaoC it was also possible to just PvE and later on, after they strapped-on their water skis and took a flying leap over the shark, they even created co-op PvE servers once Blizzard and WOW had showed them the way to the promised land full of money for nothing and chicks for free.
But it would be hard to argue that DAoC was not about the RvR and it wil be hard to argue against that here as well--level 50 PvE activities notwithstanding.
Hey it's their words...
there are 4 end game activities.. not one activity where all roads lead to.
Additionally, I do believe there is a video itnerview where they indicate that players don't have to pvp. I just didn't "say that" because I can't link to it yet as I need to go through the available videos.
I don't doubt that the video exists and it was probably Sage who said it and I'm sure he wants to promise goodness at level 50 for all--except instance raiders that is...but that's another thread.
However I don't believe for a minute that what they're really focusing on as the primary level 50 activity (10-50 can participate but 10s will quickly realize they're missing too many abilities to be competitive -- even after having their stats bolstered -- and will go back to leveling after peeking in) is equal measures of AvA, exploring the other 2 zones, heroic dungeons and adventure zones.
Adventure zones are targetted for after release. Exploring the other 2 areas will consist of doing the same quests people who leveled there did except with bolstered level 50 mobs--not a lot of effort required.
Only the Heroic instances and Cyrodiil actually require intensive and extensive design work.
And if you listen carefully to any Matt Firor interview, it's hard not to hear that the 2 things he always mentions as being most unique about this MMO compared to others is the nearly-classless TES-like character progression and the war in Cyrodiil.
People can believe whatever they want to believe but this MMO walks and talks like an RvR duck. Hence my take on what it's really all about.
However, that is totally different from Camelot Unchained. PvE will definitely be supported here. It isn't only PvP like CU. Still...it's a duck
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Kinchyle Honeslty asking....what MMO has ever been a widely played and popular "real" sandbox? I can't remember one that hasn't been a disappointment.
Also, what about the ESO single player series falls out of the sandbox category? Isn't a sandbox where you can go anywhere at any time? Skyrim very much allowed this. Sure it had a storyline to follow, but you didn't have to follow it to explore the world.
As far as the PvP goes...there again. What game has ever done it so the majority loved it (DAoC maybe)? All I ever see is whining about how a certain game or another failed at it. If DAoC did it right, is ESO going along the same lines with RvR? I actually only ever did PvP in DAoC a lot, so I kinda would like to know. Loved DAoC!
Just questions...cause I guess I don't get everyone elses opnion of "sandbox" really.
TES games are quest driven. you can choose not to do them but you would be missing out on a huge portion of the game.
in a sandbox game, there isn't quests like that, almost all the content is created by the players.
that is why its been coined "sandbox" because you create the content, much like a sand castle in a sandbox.
could you do that in TES games? other than crafting gear and potions no you could not (standard in any sandbox and themepark alike).
does that answer your first question?
as far as pvp goes, i am in the same boat. i loved Daoc pvp but its hard to say how long the pvp will keep me interested in TESO.
if there is no way to advance your character like you could in Daoc (realm points) then i would assume it wont last long for me.
i know there will be alliance points similar to realm points but i am concerned that it will just be cosmetic upgrades or other things that don't actually advance your character.
that was my main issue with GW2...well that and the fact that it was just a huge zerg fest and nothing more.
i like the fact that in cyrodiil, it acts as a full fledged pve zone as well.
that way people can hopefully still get the open world pvp feeling, even though it is still segregated from the rest of the world.
the area will be huge as well.
Theres a lot of content in Skyrim thats created by the players and you can build houses...In morrowind someone made a Cyrodil mod too.
The game's PvP is not optional; Its a necessity. A lot of crafting materials, possibly even some dungeons reside in Cyrodil, the PvP zone.
The game is focused around the PvP endgame.
You may stick to non-PvP zones only, but you will lose a large chunk of the game.
With these, those who absolutely demand not participating in PvP in their MMO ever. Remove TESO from your waiting list already, this game will not be catered around PvE, its a RvR (*cough* AvA) game.
I don't think you have set anything straight
The pvp is optional. You say a lot of crafting materials are located in the pvp zone, which is true but why did you neglect to mention that makine your way through all the pve areas not only gives players more crafting materials and better gear but it also allows skills to become stronger? I do believe they said that there are multiple ways one can improve your character and that a player can either spend their time in the pvp zone or spend it in the pve zone and "not be gimped".
Secondly you don't know if the game is centered around the pvp endgame since there are larger pve things to do in the pve world. If anyting it's more like GW2 in that a player can go to Cyrodill at level 10 (and be boosted to top level) but a player doesn't ever have to rely upon pvp.
Quite frankly I hope you haven't spread disinformation.
Specifically, I asked Sage to describe ZeniMax's strategy for keeping players occupied once they hit the level cap at 50. His reply included four main activities: questing in enemy alliance zones, four-player dungeons, adventure zones, and the PvP alliance war in Cyrodiil. Read on for all of the details I gleaned from the interview!
So it sounds like there are "4 main" activities". No "one" is set above another.
reading over the article it seems that pvp is "one pillar" in the ESO endgame.
Actually I tend to agree with him more than you.
We don't know what resources are found only in Cyrodiil (if any) and I assume they will all be tradable. I think you're right in that it could be played and enjoyed by some without ever setting foot in Cyrodiil.
However, it's pretty clear to me that their showcase is Cyrodiil and the story line points to the 3-sided alliance war there.
In DaoC it was also possible to just PvE and later on, after they strapped-on their water skis and took a flying leap over the shark, they even created co-op PvE servers once Blizzard and WOW had showed them the way to the promised land full of money for nothing and chicks for free.
But it would be hard to argue that DAoC was not about the RvR and it wil be hard to argue against that here as well--level 50 PvE activities notwithstanding.
Hey it's their words...
there are 4 end game activities.. not one activity where all roads lead to.
Additionally, I do believe there is a video itnerview where they indicate that players don't have to pvp. I just didn't "say that" because I can't link to it yet as I need to go through the available videos.
I don't think it's just about their words in that one article personally, I think it's how they are presenting the game to the public and how it's designed at the core. The main hype has been about the RVR. The game is DESIGNED for that goal, with the 3 faction setup and faction locked races, plus the landlock early. It's all tailored around the biggest deal - RvR. Sure there will be other things but tha't the main deal, at least in my opinion.
Originally posted by Xepo If you want PVE only content then wait for the next Skyrim expansion of a new installment of ES. This is an MMO and most MMOs have PVP in them. I look to play a MMO that has good PVP in it and I am hoping this game will have a nice balance for PVP, which means controlled faction choices. Not really as big a deal as many are trying to make it out to be. Most MMOs with PVP have those types of choices. WoW has faction controlled races yet people still play that game for PVP and PVE. If done well the cry babies will leave to bash a different game after a while and the true players will stick around and make the game great.
This seems to be the prevelant argument for pvp. So flawed and arrogant. So an mmo should have a huge pvp focus, or there is no point to the mmo at all. Sure. Because people wouldn't want to group up with friends to tackle some tough PvE content in and Elder Scrolls universe right? They only would want to kill each other.
its only flawed and arrogant because you don't agree. for me personally, i totally see where he is coming because when i play mmo's, i want to see how good my character actually is and pvp is the truest test IMO.
when i upgrade my characters, its much more fun for me knowing i am upgrading them to be better in pvp rather than upgrading so i can run the next tier of raids.
i don't know why some gamers just cant understand that some people play games for different reasons than their own.
that goes for pvp'ers, pve'ers, themepark's, sandbox's. or whatever kind of games you like.
complaining because this game should only have pve or only have open pvp is pretty selfish to be perfectly blunt.
also, i see people saying that games that try to do everything fail and that's also been proven false many times over.
so there really is no excuse not to have a game feature optional pvp if it is indeed truly optional.
Comments
daoc doesn't feature instances at all
Daoc doesn't have your gear carrot chasing endgame if eq / wow
Daoc doesn't have led by the nose wow style questing
Daoc has housing (which isn't instanced)
Players could effect the world through pvp (in a limited manner compared to a sandbox like eve), through DF access, territory held, relics held etc..
Daoc is a themepark.
But its less themeparky than games like EQ (the original themepark), Ao ( which invented bloody instances), wow (which invented linear quest hub driven pve and the sat in cities queueing to do shit end game, and solidly embraced the gear treadmill and instancing paradigm)
The ultimate in themeparkyness would be swtor.
Daoc is pretty close to the borderline, but still in the themepark camp it has more in common with hybrids like ac and just in the sandbox side games like swg than it has in common with these modern uber-themeparks like swtor, tsw, Aoc, d&do, Neverwinter & sto.
how many of those pve servers offer optional pvp?
pvpers might be the minority but they are still a huge chunk of the mmo fan base, far too large to ignore.
there are a lot of pvpers out there and to not offer it in a game like this would not be smart.
why do you think all these other games that didn't offer pvp at launch tried to patch it in later?
i honestly don't see why people are complaining because there will be optional pvp in this game.
Daoc actually does have instancing they introduced with the catacombs expansion.
still, based on the info that we have, TESO is nothing like Daoc's pve.
people that keep insisting that it is are either trolling (likely) or they just don't have all their facts straight.
ShakyMo
Instance does not mean themepark
DaoC did have gear sets from dungeons and Aurulite currency for those items
Daoc had led by the nose RvR
Housing does not equal sandbox unless you can place your house everywhere. Asherons call had housing, but they were in set places so not a sandbox feature, its a themepark feature.
Players couldnt raid the other sides faction and thus not effect their enemies lands, the effects that did take place were set features in a place behind a magically walled off land fully controlled by the developers...and thus themepark.
That type of game was called themepark for a reason. An attraction to ride over and over with little change between them. In an MMO, its content is heavily driven by the DEVELOPERS from the very start where players are given a set path to follow with the developers controlling the experience and restricting the attractions offered.
Exactly what DaoC was, from the realm pride, the racial choices, the lands being controlled and segregated, from level 1 all the way to max being guided to a central place to fight over...and even limiting your ability to fight to that place only. DaoC was the first modern day themepark because even the PvP was themepark.
Yes, people are mad about the "optional pvp" in the game. Not that the game is centered around this optional pvp.
Just like people weren't mad about the "optional auction house" in D3. Not like it had any effect on the rest of the game.
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Not realy a sandbox but it have elements that are also implemented in most sandbox total freedom open world no guidance no typical quest hubs.
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how many of those pve servers offer optional pvp? pvpers might be the minority but they are still a huge chunk of the mmo fan base, far too large to ignore. there are a lot of pvpers out there and to not offer it in a game like this would not be smart. why do you think all these other games that didn't offer pvp at launch tried to patch it in later? i honestly don't see why people are complaining because there will be optional pvp in this game.
Yes, people are mad about the "optional pvp" in the game. Not that the game is centered around this optional pvp.
Just like people weren't mad about the "optional auction house" in D3. Not like it had any effect on the rest of the game.
apples and oranges.
D3's RMAH absolutely has a huge impact on the entire game and made it pay 2 win.
TESO pvp is completely optional and has no effect on the rest of the game other than the faction lock.
To set some things straight:
The game's PvP is not optional; Its a necessity. A lot of crafting materials, possibly even some dungeons reside in Cyrodil, the PvP zone.
The game is focused around the PvP endgame.
You may stick to non-PvP zones only, but you will lose a large chunk of the game.
With these, those who absolutely demand not participating in PvP in their MMO ever. Remove TESO from your waiting list already, this game will not be catered around PvE, its a RvR (*cough* AvA) game.
They've already stated that pve / pvp and crafting progression is EQUAL.
You are no more "forced" to pvp in TESO than you are say gw2.
Compare and contrast with the multitude of wow clones that really do force you to raid if you want to progress.
This seems to be the prevelant argument for pvp. So flawed and arrogant. So an mmo should have a huge pvp focus, or there is no point to the mmo at all. Sure. Because people wouldn't want to group up with friends to tackle some tough PvE content in and Elder Scrolls universe right? They only would want to kill each other.
They've probably spent MORE time on pve than pvp.
Daoc was a 50/50 pve/pvp game.
You guys are making out like this game us darkfall or planetside it something.
[mod edit]
Or put another way, whether they know they're doing it or not, they want it to be yet another cookie cutter MMO with heavy WOW influences.
Zmax is attempting to do an MMO that is a bit different from all the others and the same people who always knock MMOs for being the same old shit are now whining because this one isn't the same old shit.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I don't think you have set anything straight
The pvp is optional. You say a lot of crafting materials are located in the pvp zone, which is true but why did you neglect to mention that makine your way through all the pve areas not only gives players more crafting materials and better gear but it also allows skills to become stronger? I do believe they said that there are multiple ways one can improve your character and that a player can either spend their time in the pvp zone or spend it in the pve zone and "not be gimped".
Secondly you don't know if the game is centered around the pvp endgame since there are larger pve things to do in the pve world. If anyting it's more like GW2 in that a player can go to Cyrodill at level 10 (and be boosted to top level) but a player doesn't ever have to rely upon pvp.
Quite frankly I hope you haven't spread disinformation.
Specifically, I asked Sage to describe ZeniMax's strategy for keeping players occupied once they hit the level cap at 50. His reply included four main activities: questing in enemy alliance zones, four-player dungeons, adventure zones, and the PvP alliance war in Cyrodiil. Read on for all of the details I gleaned from the interview!
So it sounds like there are "4 main" activities". No "one" is set above another.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/
reading over the article it seems that pvp is "one pillar" in the ESO endgame.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Actually I tend to agree with him more than you.
We don't know what resources are found only in Cyrodiil (if any) and I assume they will all be tradable. I think you're right in that it could be played and enjoyed by some without ever setting foot in Cyrodiil.
However, it's pretty clear to me that their showcase is Cyrodiil and the story line points to the 3-sided alliance war there.
In DaoC it was also possible to just PvE and later on, after they strapped-on their water skis and took a flying leap over the shark, they even created co-op PvE servers once Blizzard and WOW had showed them the way to the promised land full of money for nothing and chicks for free.
But it would be hard to argue that DAoC was not about the RvR and it wil be hard to argue against that here as well--level 50 PvE activities notwithstanding.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Hey it's their words...
there are 4 end game activities.. not one activity where all roads lead to.
Additionally, I do believe there is a video itnerview where they indicate that players don't have to pvp. I just didn't "say that" because I can't link to it yet as I need to go through the available videos.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I don't doubt that the video exists and it was probably Sage who said it and I'm sure he wants to promise goodness at level 50 for all--except instance raiders that is...but that's another thread.
However I don't believe for a minute that what they're really focusing on as the primary level 50 activity (10-50 can participate but 10s will quickly realize they're missing too many abilities to be competitive -- even after having their stats bolstered -- and will go back to leveling after peeking in) is equal measures of AvA, exploring the other 2 zones, heroic dungeons and adventure zones.
Adventure zones are targetted for after release. Exploring the other 2 areas will consist of doing the same quests people who leveled there did except with bolstered level 50 mobs--not a lot of effort required.
Only the Heroic instances and Cyrodiil actually require intensive and extensive design work.
And if you listen carefully to any Matt Firor interview, it's hard not to hear that the 2 things he always mentions as being most unique about this MMO compared to others is the nearly-classless TES-like character progression and the war in Cyrodiil.
People can believe whatever they want to believe but this MMO walks and talks like an RvR duck. Hence my take on what it's really all about.
However, that is totally different from Camelot Unchained. PvE will definitely be supported here. It isn't only PvP like CU. Still...it's a duck
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Theres a lot of content in Skyrim thats created by the players and you can build houses...In morrowind someone made a Cyrodil mod too.
http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/9782 One of the best player made quest i have seen fully voiced by actors and different land with new monsters.
Hell there are modders who are working on making it a mmorpg, they even made a whole new city for the online version...
http://forums.skyrim-online.com/portal.php
Yeap, Here is a video of the Skyrim Online mod in use.
http://youtu.be/8-8FBZHyV0A , give it a look, and see if they could use some help to profect it.
I don't think it's just about their words in that one article personally, I think it's how they are presenting the game to the public and how it's designed at the core. The main hype has been about the RVR. The game is DESIGNED for that goal, with the 3 faction setup and faction locked races, plus the landlock early. It's all tailored around the biggest deal - RvR. Sure there will be other things but tha't the main deal, at least in my opinion.
its only flawed and arrogant because you don't agree. for me personally, i totally see where he is coming because when i play mmo's, i want to see how good my character actually is and pvp is the truest test IMO.
when i upgrade my characters, its much more fun for me knowing i am upgrading them to be better in pvp rather than upgrading so i can run the next tier of raids.
i don't know why some gamers just cant understand that some people play games for different reasons than their own.
that goes for pvp'ers, pve'ers, themepark's, sandbox's. or whatever kind of games you like.
complaining because this game should only have pve or only have open pvp is pretty selfish to be perfectly blunt.
also, i see people saying that games that try to do everything fail and that's also been proven false many times over.
so there really is no excuse not to have a game feature optional pvp if it is indeed truly optional.