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All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
A big fat yes!
I don't want to play with cheats, cheats can get a new account and name if banned, but their voice from comms will always be known, so i would want to know if i'd been playing with a cheat.
Kinda pointless really, just IP ban them.
Two (or more) people could have the same gaming name, just in different games, so that could lead to major confusion.
Besides "creating" a new name isn't very difficult now is it?
STOOPIDWhen someone does something so utterly moronic that it kills your brain cells at the very thought of it.
Originally posted by NL-Rikkert Kinda pointless really, just IP ban them. Two (or more) people could have the same gaming name, just in different games, so that could lead to major confusion. Besides "creating" a new name isn't very difficult now is it?
Major? Really? Atleast things are clear about that one guy in that game with the wall of shame...
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What are the positive benefits of naming and shaming someone who has been banned from a game? There are none.
To publicly try to humiliate someone by naming and shaming is just as low an action as the offending banned member.
If someone's abused me then disappears because they're banned I won't even notice. I won't miss them and I don't need to know that they're gone. I certainly don't need to know names of people banned whom I've never spoken to or come in contact with either. It makes no sense to me.
They're gone, who cares!
Originally posted by -Zeno- Originally posted by Xthos I would just like it if they actually got rid of people that cheated, too often it seems like they do not want to lose the money from the individual and do nothing, atleast until they do something over the top. Nothing kills my interest in a game, like people cheating/hacking and duping all over the place.
But should the cheaters be tossed up on a website and publicly shamed? As of right now I only know of one company that is about to do that to their player base. If that is good should other companies start doing the same thing? Could said company get sued out of existance because they are posting banned character names?
No, they could be sued.
The only possible reason you could try to sue would be libel/slander/defamation. But to prove that you need 3 things:
1) You have to prove it is YOU they are defaming. That isnt gonna be easy since they are listing your character name. Your character being a pixelated avatar with a name that likely in no way reflects your real name. There is no way anyone seeing the name "Butts Astratchin" on a website is going to know who that is IRL.
2) Furthermore, to prove either libel of Slander you have to be able to PROVE the statement/ post to be false. Think about that. They say you cheated on the website so the burden is on YOU to prove them wrong. How do you prove you did not cheat at a game? iIts hard enough to prove any negative, let alone this 1. How can anyone prove they didnt cheat at a game?
3) You would have to prove that the defamation had actual definable monetary damages. This is specificly stated as part of the law, otherwise everyone could sue everyone else for calling eachother names. MMorpg.com would be a hotbed of lawsuits. "He hurt my feelings" wont cut it in a libel/slander case. The only people I can see who could argue actual monetary damages for having their account taken away are professional streamers. But, the streamers would have to show a long track record of financial gain from streaming then show how their being banned caused them to lose followers and therfor income. Considering how many "pros" in other games have been banned and have had massive INCREASES in followers because of it, this would also be very hard to show.
These 3 criteria are pretty universal accross all legal areas that have defamation laws.
I think it's harmful to any game that does it. just because I can't imagine how the logistics of it would work well with out major issues.
Think about it for a second. A good number of bannable players are bots...etiher the farming kind or gold selling kind. So either they have a strand name that doesn't make much sense or they have a name that is a phishing website disguised in leet speak.So they are going to post mostly names that don't make sense or ones that expose their players further to possible phishing scams?
And, where are they going to put these names? some place in their forums? in a scrolling marque at the top of their page? will they post them in game chat as they happen? Who wants to actually sit there and read that...it's spam. and potentially harmful spam at that.
I would say that if they really want to shame a player who they banned, just put a strike through their name and an asterix whereever their name appears on any ranking or forum post.
That way if they mattered enough to be decently ranked in a game or aspect of a game...or were big posters on a forum...or otherwise well known or recognised. Their shame will actually be noticed without showing the 1000's of nameless bots that are not even worth mentioning (just banning).
Originally posted by RandomDown Originally posted by -Zeno- Originally posted by observer Originally posted by -Zeno- Should game developers shame banned players by publicly posting their names?
No. There's no reason for shaming people that make errors in judgement, especially over a video game. That's ridiculous.
Most cheaters know exactly what they are doing so I would not call it an error in judgement. However for the shaming part I could imagine someone who has a real error in judgement and uses their real name as their charactor name. Could that pose a legal issue if said player is shamed?
Quite possibly. That is a very good question. One legal issue that comes to mind is libel. If they ban someone falsely due to misinformation or a misinterpration of the data, they would be at fault.
At this point, I'm not saying whether I'm for or against it, but as far as I understood, they are not posting real names. They are using in-game character names.
So I don't think this would be libelous. There might be other claims for damages of a more commercial/consumer transaction oriented nature if services which were paid for were inappropriately denied. But I'm not getting paid to write a legal brief on it. Maybe a good topic for a law school student paper, though.
Originally posted by -Zeno- Should game developers shame banned players by publicly posting their names?
Yes and share them with other MMOs..
it would be cool if it was possible to chare acconut details like email but im sure that would brake some laws.
trading card games post the ban lists with players' real names before tournaments all the time.
Originally posted by Helleri I think it's harmful to any game that does it. just because I can't imagine how the logistics of it would work well with out major issues. Think about it for a second. A good number of bannable players are bots...etiher the farming kind or gold selling kind. So either they have a strand name that doesn't make much sense or they have a name that is a phishing website disguised in leet speak.So they are going to post mostly names that don't make sense or ones that expose their players further to possible phishing scams? And, where are they going to put these names? some place in their forums? in a scrolling marque at the top of their page? will they post them in game chat as they happen? Who wants to actually sit there and read that...it's spam. and potentially harmful spam at that. I would say that if they really want to shame a player who they banned, just put a strike through their name and an asterix whereever their name appears on any ranking or forum post. That way if they mattered enough to be decently ranked in a game or aspect of a game...or were big posters on a forum...or otherwise well known or recognised. Their shame will actually be noticed without showing the 1000's of nameless bots that are not even worth mentioning (just banning).
I agree that it is pointess to make a list of all the bots hehe with names like "ajhsdfjauh". But in descent games where bots are kept to a minimum it matters And the devs just need to make a seperate website for it. Like AV did here for DF:UW: http://www.unholybanhammer.com/
Originally posted by rounner Im suprised so many think anyone would care
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.**On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**
people that hack and cheat at online games should be named, shamed, tarred, feathered, and tried for the death penalty, with no appeals.
Originally posted by Caldrin Originally posted by -Zeno- Should game developers shame banned players by publicly posting their names?
its not impossible though, if the MMO companies decided to work together to create a 'list' of dodgy players, email addresses used to create the game accounts springs to mind, for games that have a subscription though, they could just ban the credit card holder of whoever created the account, though they wouldnt be able to share those details with other MMO companies.. it would at least enable them to block cheaters in their own game..
Yeh lets throw all privacy overboard, lets go darkages condem and expose the evil ones.
100% proof they are guilty yes(perosnally i still think dont go that raod) if any doub NO.
Btw i have nothing to hide but ill NEVER go with my real name on internet for so many good reasons.
As soon publishers start asking for real ID im out, to many criminals out there on the internet.
Originally posted by benseine Originally posted by Yaevindusk
- Can be proven by looking at IP adress from where account was accesed. Who will play DF from their vacation resort at the Philipines???
- That might be when ppl report cheating. But ppl get banned for cheating cause of data on the server, not solely on fingerpointing.
- accidently banned the wrong person by looking at the data of the right person??? unlikely, why ban at all then?
- If someone used a char named BenseIne while my char name in Benseine then that might be annoying. agreed. But no wall of shame is needed for that. Ppl can do it now, buddy makes the SS and posts it on forums. Same thing.
- ruin entire communities? doesn't that usually happen in botinfested games with shitloads of cheaters? Cause of cheating?
1) IP addresses are easy to change, which is why we don't see developers banning IPs anymore. There are many who have different IPs daily without them even knowing as some are not static. Also, many people play the game on the road, and accounts nowadays keep on getting hacked and banned because of suspicious activity including (but not limited to) RMT advertising, hacking and using the accounts as a front for illegal activity. If it was this simple, no game would have to deal with these issues and instead just ask for a password change next time you enter (though some attempt to do this). Also, human errors are always present and this is no exclusion. Also, how long would this mean one would have to wait to make sure they just aren't traveling? It kind've defeats the point of publically humiliating players if you have to wait weeks/months to see if a ban deserves humiliation (as people will probably forget them by then).
2) That wasn't the point of that bullet, but rather anyone with similar names will be harrassed by other players if they think they've saw their name on the wall of shame. Whether it was a permant ban or a temporary for whatever they did, there are enough people out there who aren't the most intelligent of people and who jump to conclusions easily. This is a playground for harassment and will likely chase innocent players away, or tempt them into changing their name and or start over again (if not outright quit from not wanting to).
3) This happens in every MMO game that has ever existed. I'm not even sure how you could say it has not. We can even take a look at League of Legends and how employees there have been fired because they threaten to publically shame others (or actually do), ban them because of an argument in game, etc. There is also room for human error, as to think humans are perfect enough to not cause mistakes is a bit... optimistic? And also impossible. I'm not sure what mindset you had when articulating this particular response (in that I think we're just looking at things from a different mindset).
4) I'm not sure what you're trying to say again. Did you read that bullet point?
5) I've known entire guilds and alliances crumble because of implications involved with influential members of their society. The haters have ammo, people chastise them, etc. Those who were innocent have to take the heat, which is what they mean in their "Even if they're leaders of the most famous communities and guilds" comment was when going into the details of why they are thinking of allowing this. This leads to guilds disbanding and people quitting as a whole, as community is one of the main reasons you play, especially if you go through thick and thin together in a PvP setting. I've seen thousands of people leave games in Ultima, World of Warcraft, Everquest, DAoC, Eve (etc.) and many other games just for people making implications and rumors against them. Imagine what it will be like if there is actual developer vindication against a group of people that others then take to bat. Losing thousands of players because their community was disgraced, when most all of them are innocent is something that happens all too often for competitive / large community guilds without developers entering the discussion as is.
All in all this is just something people want to "stick it" to cheaters without thinking of potential ramifications. Cheaters will be banned regardless, and doing something controversial just so players visibily see it happen seems like too much risk for the reward (and by the looks of most responses with regards to it, seems to be more a PR move than anything of substantial worth). It will only deter people who are notorious at making bad decisions (or give people who already don't cheat more reason not to), and not dedicated or experienced hackers.
Originally posted by Yaevindusk Originally posted by benseine Originally posted by Yaevindusk
If you get properly banned, like in DF, you get banned for the serial number of your harddrive, your IP, your MAC address (network card). So getting banned by Aventurine is a big hassle. Just IP is too easy.
Again, no thats nonsense. PLease review my post above as to why.
Libel/slander fall under defamation suits and for those cases to be even considered there is criteria that cannot possibly be met under the circumstances described in this thread.
"..........Lulz......try to IP ban me if you want, hasn't worked yet. I am still here. I have always been here.........."
Originally posted by Consequence Originally posted by RandomDown Originally posted by -Zeno- Originally posted by observer Originally posted by -Zeno- Should game developers shame banned players by publicly posting their names?
I have not read the TOS but I'm sure there is a clause that says your character is the property of Aventurine. It really doesn't matter what you name your character. It would be considered AV's property and they can do whatever they want to it.
Hacking/Exploiting was a HUGE problem in DF1, so I certainly welcome this step. If it fails, it fails... but I'm glad to see they are trying something. Other companies like StarVault had/have similar problems. Their playerbase begged for a Wall of Shame, but the compony lacked the balls to implement it.
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)
Originally posted by benseine Originally posted by Yaevindusk Originally posted by benseine Originally posted by Yaevindusk
They ban the IP address as well? It would suck if someone else gets stuck with the IP addressed that someone got into trouble with and discarded.
Originally posted by Fugglier If someone is cheating, I really dont think they care if they are "publically" shamed on them there internets.
It's not just how it affects them, but also how it reflects on their clan. The whole DF meta game is a political one and publicly naming cheaters will certainly have an effect on that.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.