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Should game developers post banned players character names?

-Zeno--Zeno- Posts: 1,298Member Common
Should game developers shame banned players by publicly posting their names?

The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

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Comments

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    I would just like it if they actually got rid of people that cheated, too often it seems like they do not want to lose the money from the individual and do nothing, atleast until they do something over the top.

     

    Nothing kills my interest in a game, like people cheating/hacking and duping all over the place.

     

  • -Zeno--Zeno- Posts: 1,298Member Common
    Originally posted by Xthos

    I would just like it if they actually got rid of people that cheated, too often it seems like they do not want to lose the money from the individual and do nothing, atleast until they do something over the top.

     

    Nothing kills my interest in a game, like people cheating/hacking and duping all over the place.

     

    But should the cheaters be tossed up on a website and publicly shamed?  As of right now I only know of one company that is about to do that to their player base.  If that is good should other companies start doing the same thing?  Could said company get sued out of existance because they are posting banned character names?

    The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

  • benseinebenseine HaarlemPosts: 243Member

    Fuck yeah, crucify the cheaters, burn them at the stakes!

     

     

     

    Tasos 

     

    Tasos is offline

    default Update April 15th

    I'm sorry we've left you hanging on the launch time, but we're trying to coordinate with our partners. In any case,our launch ETA through the Darkfall Unholy Wars store is 1pm GMT. We'll keep you updated on this as needed. 

    On another topic, we discussed cheating policies with the beta players a few weeks ago and I quote from the original post in the beta forums:

    "On another topic and to give you some insight on what's happening around Aventurine, today we had a discussion on cheating, exploiting etc. In Darkfall Online while we banned more than a couple of thousand accounts we detected cheating, we never revealed names. We made a decision today to be brutal where it comes to cheating and do it "wall of shame" style, no exceptions and no appeals, besides the banning of all associated accounts, we will post the character names - we don't care if it's the account of a leader of the largest Alliance in the game with thousands of players associated with it - he should have known better. Darkfall Unholy Wars is a competitive game and we cannot be lenient with anyone trying to cheat their fellow players."

    The response was very positive and we now have the Unholy BanHammer up and ready. 

    We'll keep you updated on all developments.

     
     
    Two tumbs up for AV! :D
  • -Zeno--Zeno- Posts: 1,298Member Common
    Originally posted by benseine

    Fuck yeah, crucify the cheaters, burn them at the stakes!

     

     

     

    Tasos 

     

    Tasos is offline

    default Update April 15th

    I'm sorry we've left you hanging on the launch time, but we're trying to coordinate with our partners. In any case,our launch ETA through the Darkfall Unholy Wars store is 1pm GMT. We'll keep you updated on this as needed. 

    On another topic, we discussed cheating policies with the beta players a few weeks ago and I quote from the original post in the beta forums:

    "On another topic and to give you some insight on what's happening around Aventurine, today we had a discussion on cheating, exploiting etc. In Darkfall Online while we banned more than a couple of thousand accounts we detected cheating, we never revealed names. We made a decision today to be brutal where it comes to cheating and do it "wall of shame" style, no exceptions and no appeals, besides the banning of all associated accounts, we will post the character names - we don't care if it's the account of a leader of the largest Alliance in the game with thousands of players associated with it - he should have known better. Darkfall Unholy Wars is a competitive game and we cannot be lenient with anyone trying to cheat their fellow players."

    The response was very positive and we now have the Unholy BanHammer up and ready. 

    We'll keep you updated on all developments.

     
     
    Two tumbs up for AV! :D

    I didn't want to mention the sourse as this is a general topic and not one specific to what AV developers are doing (http://www.unholybanhammer.com/).

    As I stated: Should other developers of other games pick this up or is this a really bad idea?

    PS: Please don't move this thread.  I am asking if World of Warcraft, Age of Conan, EVE Online, Warhammer Online, etc, should follow suit and make a "banned player shame wall" like AV is doing for Darkfall.

    The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,009Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by -Zeno-
    Should game developers shame banned players by publicly posting their names?

    No. There's no reason for shaming people that make errors in judgement, especially over a video game.  That's ridiculous.

  • benseinebenseine HaarlemPosts: 243Member
    Originally posted by -Zeno-
    Originally posted by benseine

    Fuck yeah, crucify the cheaters, burn them at the stakes!

     

     

     

    Tasos 

     

    Tasos is offline

    default Update April 15th

    I'm sorry we've left you hanging on the launch time, but we're trying to coordinate with our partners. In any case,our launch ETA through the Darkfall Unholy Wars store is 1pm GMT. We'll keep you updated on this as needed. 

    On another topic, we discussed cheating policies with the beta players a few weeks ago and I quote from the original post in the beta forums:

    "On another topic and to give you some insight on what's happening around Aventurine, today we had a discussion on cheating, exploiting etc. In Darkfall Online while we banned more than a couple of thousand accounts we detected cheating, we never revealed names. We made a decision today to be brutal where it comes to cheating and do it "wall of shame" style, no exceptions and no appeals, besides the banning of all associated accounts, we will post the character names - we don't care if it's the account of a leader of the largest Alliance in the game with thousands of players associated with it - he should have known better. Darkfall Unholy Wars is a competitive game and we cannot be lenient with anyone trying to cheat their fellow players."

    The response was very positive and we now have the Unholy BanHammer up and ready. 

    We'll keep you updated on all developments.

     
     
    Two tumbs up for AV! :D

    I didn't want to mention the sourse as this is a general topic and not one specific to what AV developers are doing (http://www.unholybanhammer.com/).

    As I stated: Should other developers of other games pick this up or is this a really bad idea?

    PS: Please don't move this thread.  I am asking if World of Warcraft, Age of Conan, EVE Online, Warhammer Online, etc, should follow suit and make a "banned player shame wall" like AV is doing for Darkfall.

    Yes they should. Reported many players for cheating in some games and nothing ever really happened. Just a one week ban and the cheaters where allowed back. Atleast now with this they can never denie they did it, wich they always do if confronted with it. So ppl think twice before even trying because this can hunt them for a long time if they aren't carefull.

  • -Zeno--Zeno- Posts: 1,298Member Common
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by -Zeno-
    Should game developers shame banned players by publicly posting their names?

    No. There's no reason for shaming people that make errors in judgement, especially over a video game.  That's ridiculous.

    Most cheaters know exactly what they are doing so I would not call it an error in judgement.  However for the shaming part I could imagine someone who has a real error in judgement and uses their real name as their charactor name.  Could that pose a legal issue if said player is shamed?

    I could imagine this working out good in a niche game like Camelot Unchained (small player base) but when you are dealing with millions of players (World of Warcraft) a public list would be impossible.

    The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

  • RandomDownRandomDown Louisville, KYPosts: 145Member
    Originally posted by -Zeno-
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by -Zeno-
    Should game developers shame banned players by publicly posting their names?

    No. There's no reason for shaming people that make errors in judgement, especially over a video game.  That's ridiculous.

    Most cheaters know exactly what they are doing so I would not call it an error in judgement.  However for the shaming part I could imagine someone who has a real error in judgement and uses their real name as their charactor name.  Could that pose a legal issue if said player is shamed?

    Quite possibly. That is a very good question. One legal issue that comes to mind is libel. If they ban someone falsely due to misinformation or a misinterpration of the data, they would be at fault.

  • kostoslavkostoslav somborPosts: 459Member
    .
  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 840Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by -Zeno-
    Should game developers shame banned players by publicly posting their names?

    No. There's no reason for shaming people that make errors in judgement, especially over a video game.  That's ridiculous.

    As long as its a character name and not RL name, I honestly dont see the harm. TBH, I dont belive the myth of the "innocent" ban (or "errors of judgement" as you call it). People who get hit by the ban hammer KNEW they were doing something wrong when they did the banable offence. They should take thier punishment without whining.

  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAPosts: 1,322Member Uncommon
    I'm just not sure how effective this would be in stopping the cheaters. People know what they are doing and they do it because they can. How about fixing the game instead of placing the focus elsewhere.
  • benseinebenseine HaarlemPosts: 243Member
    Originally posted by RandomDown
    Originally posted by -Zeno-
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by -Zeno-
    Should game developers shame banned players by publicly posting their names?

    No. There's no reason for shaming people that make errors in judgement, especially over a video game.  That's ridiculous.

    Most cheaters know exactly what they are doing so I would not call it an error in judgement.  However for the shaming part I could imagine someone who has a real error in judgement and uses their real name as their charactor name.  Could that pose a legal issue if said player is shamed?

    Quite possibly. That is a very good question. One legal issue that comes to mind is libel. If they ban someone falsely due to misinformation or a misinterpration of the data, they would be at fault.

    Falsely? They have data backing up the steps someone did ingame. Someone might do a false report because they hate a guy, but you don't get banned for cheating for nothing.

  • benseinebenseine HaarlemPosts: 243Member
    Originally posted by GreenHell
    I'm just not sure how effective this would be in stopping the cheaters. People know what they are doing and they do it because they can. How about fixing the game instead of placing the focus elsewhere.

    As I said before. Cheaters usually denie it when confronted with the fact they they are cheaters... because they can denie it very easily in mmo. This wall of shame changes that ;) I would really like the see the creativity ppl have with comming up with excuses why their name is on a wall of shame haha. Gonna be fun :D

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon

    I agree with it.  Not only is the concept a deterrant but if someone is banned for cheating they have probably been griefing people for a while.  It's a sort of resitution to those that have been on the receiving end of the cheating.

     

    This of course assumes that the systems in place by the developer are concrete.  As long as only screen names were revealed I think EULA would cover the rest legally speaking.  If you're going to cheat I doubt you would put your real name to an avatar.

     

    OP you may want to include a poll before this gets too big as this is an interesting topic.

  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAPosts: 1,322Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by benseine
    Originally posted by GreenHell
    I'm just not sure how effective this would be in stopping the cheaters. People know what they are doing and they do it because they can. How about fixing the game instead of placing the focus elsewhere.

    As I said before. Cheaters usually denie it when confronted with the fact they they are cheaters... because they can denie it very easily in mmo. This wall of shame changes that ;)

    How in any way does that change anything? Their account is still gone and they can still deny it. Putting a character name on a website changes nothing. People come here and say they were banned unfairly all of the time. Nothing would change. They admitted to getting banned but still deny they did anything wrong. It just seems pointless. So is everyone know going to go look at the website just to confirm he was actually nbanned even after he said he was banned? Im sorry but it doesn't make any sense and it will not stop or slow down the cheating. Once again I would say ban the person and fix the damn game.

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    No but they should put their characters in a public prison where all the other players can virtually spit on them.
  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GreenHell
    Originally posted by benseine
    Originally posted by GreenHell
    I'm just not sure how effective this would be in stopping the cheaters. People know what they are doing and they do it because they can. How about fixing the game instead of placing the focus elsewhere.

    As I said before. Cheaters usually denie it when confronted with the fact they they are cheaters... because they can denie it very easily in mmo. This wall of shame changes that ;)

    How in any way does that change anything? Their account is still gone and they can still deny it. Putting a character name on a website changes nothing. People come here and say they were banned unfairly all of the time. Nothing would change. They admitted to getting banned but still deny they did anything wrong. It just seems pointless. So is everyone know going to go look at the website just to confirm he was actually nbanned even after he said he was banned? Im sorry but it doesn't make any sense and it will not stop or slow down the cheating. Once again I would say ban the person and fix the damn game.

     

    I see your point but in a game like DF:UW the in game community would be close enough to know who's who.  Aion was the same way as battles and personalities were very personal.  To those on this site that are outside the game it would mean little but to the game's community it would have a great impact.

  • benseinebenseine HaarlemPosts: 243Member
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Originally posted by GreenHell
    Originally posted by benseine
    Originally posted by GreenHell
    I'm just not sure how effective this would be in stopping the cheaters. People know what they are doing and they do it because they can. How about fixing the game instead of placing the focus elsewhere.

    As I said before. Cheaters usually denie it when confronted with the fact they they are cheaters... because they can denie it very easily in mmo. This wall of shame changes that ;)

    How in any way does that change anything? Their account is still gone and they can still deny it. Putting a character name on a website changes nothing. People come here and say they were banned unfairly all of the time. Nothing would change. They admitted to getting banned but still deny they did anything wrong. It just seems pointless. So is everyone know going to go look at the website just to confirm he was actually nbanned even after he said he was banned? Im sorry but it doesn't make any sense and it will not stop or slow down the cheating. Once again I would say ban the person and fix the damn game.

     

    I see your point but in a game like DF:UW the in game community would be close enough to know who's who.  Aion was the same way as battles and personalities were very personal.  To those on this site that are outside the game it would mean little but to the game's community it would have a great impact.

    /signed, nicely said :)

  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Ul''dah, CAPosts: 1,540Member Uncommon

     

    I would say yes if not for some pressing concerns:

    • Some accounts and players get banned because they were hacked, and their hackers may have participated in RMT or used that account to cheat to get more money and items.
    • There will likely be cases where it's a case of mistaken identity if one person has a similar name to others
    • There will be cases where they accidentally ban someone and it wasn't warranted; what if someone was big in game, was then publically shunned, and a month later they figure out an error with a system, a vindictive employee, or just a mistake in general?  Will they go on the front page and publically announce their error and proclaim someone innocent?  Will it even matter after all that time as the person was shamed and his friends laugh at him?
    • They could put accepting this as part of their terms of service, but what if someone uses their real name (or they used someone elses name, and intentially cheat)?  If it causes undue stress in real life, no ToS will save them from a potential law suit in terms of grief, and if it was from a mistake they could be in some serious trouble (not to mention that public shame in itself is due cause for grief).
    • It could ruin entire communities within the game, and cause a mass exodus of players who were originally innocent but who don't want to deal with drama by association.

    When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAPosts: 1,322Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aelious

    I see your point but in a game like DF:UW the in game community would be close enough to know who's who.  Aion was the same way as battles and personalities were very personal.  To those on this site that are outside the game it would mean little but to the game's community it would have a great impact.

    Maybe you are right and somehow it would have an impact in DF. I dont play it so I have no idea.  Ill just have to take your word for it.

  • benseinebenseine HaarlemPosts: 243Member
    Originally posted by Yaevindusk

     

    I would say yes if not for some pressing concerns:

    • Some accounts and players get banned because they were hacked, and their hackers may have participated in RMT or used that account to cheat to get more money and items.
    • There will likely be cases where it's a case of mistaken identity if one person has a similar name to others
    • There will be cases where they accidentally ban someone and it wasn't warranted; what if someone was big in game, was then publically shunned, and a month later they figure out an error with a system, a vindictive employee, or just a mistake in general?  Will they go on the front page and publically announce their error and proclaim someone innocent?  Will it even matter after all that time as the person was shamed and his friends laugh at him?
    • They could put accepting this as part of their terms of service, but what if someone uses their real name (or they used someone elses name, and intentially cheat)?  If it causes undue stress in real life, no ToS will save them from a potential law suit in terms of grief, and if it was from a mistake they could be in some serious trouble (not to mention that public shame in itself is due cause for grief).
    • It could ruin entire communities within the game, and cause a mass exodus of players who were originally innocent but who don't want to deal with drama by association.

    - Can be proven by looking at IP adress from where account was accesed. Who will play DF from their vacation resort at the Philipines???

    - That might be when ppl report  cheating. But ppl get banned for cheating cause of data on the server, not solely on fingerpointing.

    - accidently banned the wrong person by looking at the data of the right person??? unlikely, why ban at all then?

    - If someone used a char named BenseIne while my char name in Benseine then that might be annoying. agreed. But no wall of shame is needed for that. Ppl can do it now, buddy makes the SS and posts it on forums. Same thing.

    - ruin entire communities? doesn't that usually happen in botinfested games with shitloads of cheaters? Cause of cheating? 

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    1. Isn't going to stop anyone

    2. Should be hilarious for the person playing a different mmo that may use the same name to possibly get flamed by some ignoramus for what happened in a different mmo they never played

    3. I'm sure if someone gets their account stolen and their character gets banned they'll be thrilled if this is done

    4. Just damn fucking pointless really

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,751Member Uncommon

    No.

    Silent bans and focusing on improving community will create a superior community to a game which makes cheaters famous by calling them out.

    (Actually this is identical sentiment to what I said earlier today regarding the Boston explosion that killed two people: if society focused more on the heroes than the villains, we'd have more heroes and fewer villains.)

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,301Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by -Zeno-
    Should game developers shame banned players by publicly posting their names?

    HELL YES!

    I've been reporting cheaters in Lineage II (during subscription times) and never had any feedback or reply other than "we'll investigate this and will take appropriate action". How do we (legit players) know if the cheaters are realy punished? By posting their names in the banned list!

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