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Archery Question

ShauneepeakShauneepeak Biddeford, MEPosts: 421Member

I have a fairly simple question for the people who got to play the beta at PAX did anyone role an archer and if so what would you estimate the firing range of bows to be.

I love playing archers in rpgs but in MMOs their distance always seems to be quite crappy. I have recently been playing Tera and the distance for archers is only 20 meters, more like 20 feet, whats the point of playing an archer when an enemy can rush up to you in 2 seconds. I know its probably for balancing reasons but still you could pick up a rock and chuck it at the enemies head with the distance most MMOs give you. There must be a way to give us a longer range and keep games balanced.

Comments

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
  • ShauneepeakShauneepeak Biddeford, MEPosts: 421Member
    There isn't any archery? That just doesn't make sense or are you saying there was no archery available in the beta? Or are you simply trying to get your post count up and how is that random wikipedia link helpful in anyway?
  • xshadowx77xshadowx77 freehold, NJPosts: 2Member
    There is archery its just not that great, i personaly dont like the way they went with archery in this game.
  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by xshadowx77
    There is archery its just not that great, i personaly dont like the way they went with archery in this game.

    so you tried it then? if so what didn't you like about it?

  • BeilochBeiloch Sun City, CAPosts: 74Member
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    There isn't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt

    lol so I'm assuming there is no magic or mythical creatures right? I mean since we are citing reality here...

     

    There are PLENTY of ways to balance ranged weapons in a VIDEO GAME. You can lower the defense of a longe range fighter, bows being used could have a defense penalty for example. Longer ranges could yield less damage. So you can shoot far but you won't do nearly as much damage compared to say less than 20 meters.

    The simplest solution though is usually they don't have ranged weapons do insanely more damage like people think they should and are treated like melee but with a different 'style' Also most games don't have 'wide open spaces' so even if you had realistic range you wouldn't shoot that far very much if at all.

    I'd love to know the details of how archery works on this game. Preferably in comparison to other games. MMO's or otherwise.

  • RandomDownRandomDown Louisville, KYPosts: 145Member
    Originally posted by Shauneepeak
    There isn't any archery? That just doesn't make sense or are you saying there was no archery available in the beta? Or are you simply trying to get your post count up and how is that random wikipedia link helpful in anyway?

    There is archery. I haven't played the game so I can't comment on that but what the purpose of that link was, was as evidence as to why you can't have extremely long range archery in a game like you were asking. At the Battle of Agincourt the English Longbowmen did a stellar job of slaugther and its a fairly famous use of archery in war is all. It was meant to show how overpowered that situation was in relation to a realistic distance gap.

  • ShauneepeakShauneepeak Biddeford, MEPosts: 421Member
    If you got to play the game and try out archery could you please tell us more.
  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by Shauneepeak
    There isn't any archery? That just doesn't make sense or are you saying there was no archery available in the beta? Or are you simply trying to get your post count up and how is that random wikipedia link helpful in anyway?

    There is not a better way to balance archery.

     

    Originally posted by Beiloch

    lol so I'm assuming there is no magic or mythical creatures right? I mean since we are citing reality here...

     

    There are PLENTY of ways to balance ranged weapons in a VIDEO GAME. You can lower the defense of a longe range fighter, bows being used could have a defense penalty for example. Longer ranges could yield less damage. So you can shoot far but you won't do nearly as much damage compared to say less than 20 meters.

    The simplest solution though is usually they don't have ranged weapons do insanely more damage like people think they should and are treated like melee but with a different 'style' Also most games don't have 'wide open spaces' so even if you had realistic range you wouldn't shoot that far very much if at all.

    I'd love to know the details of how archery works on this game. Preferably in comparison to other games. MMO's or otherwise.

    Do not forget view distance in their either. Your "plenty" of ways really kinda fall down when you consider how most games do/end up balancing it. Range in and of itself is a huge advantage. When you have to take into consideration that both range and melee need to have "fun, satisfying combat" the issue really gets convoluted and messy. Lower defences for example are useless if the melee guy never reaches the ranged, and things like lowering the damage the further arrows travel just means players will not fire until they are in decent range, making that added utility useless anyway.

     

    As for how its going to work they have revealed more than enough to draw some basic conclusions. We know the range is limted like in most other mmo's, that softlock means you have to do a little bit of aiming but not be super precise. We know with hotkey's that those are going to function as "special arrow" type attacks, especially since there are infinite arrows instead of various types.

  • GeekieDaveGeekieDave Blackduck, MNPosts: 41Member

    Do not forget view distance in their either. Your "plenty" of ways really kinda fall down when you consider how most games do/end up balancing it. Range in and of itself is a huge advantage. When you have to take into consideration that both range and melee need to have "fun, satisfying combat" the issue really gets convoluted and messy. Lower defences for example are useless if the melee guy never reaches the ranged, and things like lowering the damage the further arrows travel just means players will not fire until they are in decent range, making that added utility useless anyway.

     

    As for how its going to work they have revealed more than enough to draw some basic conclusions. We know the range is limted like in most other mmo's, that softlock means you have to do a little bit of aiming but not be super precise. We know with hotkey's that those are going to function as "special arrow" type attacks, especially since there are infinite arrows instead of various types.

    Basically what I'm gathering from other players impressions and just from watching some leaked beta footage, Archery is there but you the player have to figure out how to balance it yourself. Now that is feasable because people have done the work for this in other games like Guild Wars 2 and World of Warcraft. As for the way range works, Yeah they need to have those "limitations" with how locking on works, etc. And I could see them possibly making it that you have to buy the arrows you need instead of having an unlimited supply. Unless they decide to go with how Warcraft and Guild Wars 2 work, I honestly could see them having it the same way they did in the actual Elder Scrolls series and have you buy the arrows.

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  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by GeekieDave

    Basically what I'm gathering from other players impressions and just from watching some leaked beta footage, Archery is there but you the player have to figure out how to balance it yourself. Now that is feasable because people have done the work for this in other games like Guild Wars 2 and World of Warcraft. As for the way range works, Yeah they need to have those "limitations" with how locking on works, etc. And I could see them possibly making it that you have to buy the arrows you need instead of having an unlimited supply. Unless they decide to go with how Warcraft and Guild Wars 2 work, I honestly could see them having it the same way they did in the actual Elder Scrolls series and have you buy the arrows.

    What? they have already flat out stated that amunition is infinite. Also, you would be insane to leave it up to players to "balance".

  • ShauneepeakShauneepeak Biddeford, MEPosts: 421Member

    Honestly I don't see ranged being very overpowered even with an increased range if implemented correctly. Yes this allows an archer to potentially get in a hard hitting sneak attack while the enemy is unaware. But after that arrows should be made easy to dodge and block, they're small straight firing projectiles.

    We have already learned that attacks have a semi-homing feature with spells curving to hit the target. I see this being a simple way to balance. Swords, battleaxes, etc have arcing attacks making sense to have a semi-homing style and magic is magic so again makes sense for a spell to curve slightly and hit the target. So what I am getting at is why not give archers their range don't nerf their damage but simply make it so they actually have to hit the target or give arrows a less drastic and easier to evade homing curve.

    I'm not saying archers should be given a more realistic range say 300m but at least make it something like 60 or 80m just far enough for a potential surprise attack but still close enough to give a melee based character the ability to make up the ground and attack. If bows a given a draw time similar to Oblivion or Skyrim this should be fine. At distance the archer would have the upper hand but with the distance closed the tide would drasticly turn with the archer having to constantly draw the bow and fire even more so with the melee characters power attacks interupting the bows draw. Am I just crazy here or does this not seem balanced?

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    Originally posted by baphamet

     


    Originally posted by xshadowx77
    There is archery its just not that great, i personaly dont like the way they went with archery in this game.

     

    so you tried it then? if so what didn't you like about it?

     Exactly, hes talking out his wazooo!

    image

  • NL-RikkertNL-Rikkert schagenPosts: 121Member Uncommon

    Haven't seen any archery as of yet in TESO at all, which for me is a major concern as that is my favoured play style.

     

    And indeed the usual MMO range is for balancing reasons, though I can think of a few ways to easily change that, then again it'll would completely rid itself of tab targetting, which it won't.

    Range/DMG multiplier, shooting further could mean less dmg or just a bigger chance to miss? 

    Shields actually blocking arrows (block chances are higher at longer range, cause you see that arrow coming obviously)

    Mages could use a ward spell or something perhaps?

     

    Suppose we'll have to wait and see what they'll tell/show us.

     

     

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