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how do people level up if population goes down some day

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  • ZebladeZeblade Colorado Springs, COPosts: 926Member

    This mmo will never be a hit. The person making it should have left his name off of it. There are over 300 million people in the usa alone. This mmo only has just over so far 7000 that gave.

    Not bashing this at all but do you know how many MILLIONS it takes to make a GOOD mmo? This is 2013 not 2004 or 2008. Things have changed. So unless these guys are working for free and have a ton of people working you will get what you paid for. So yeah if you just love all the FREE 2 PLAY games that come out from no names this is what this mmo will look like.

    A good mmo 30-60+ millions. If you know anything about investings ..this mmo says STAY AWAY big time. This guy has been around how long? Done how many MMO's? Now only 17 days left and still has not reached 2mil? 

    Just becareful. People always promise things and then when you dont even know them they promise you the world.. 

     

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,473Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zeblade

    This mmo will never be a hit. The person making it should have left his name off of it. There are over 300 million people in the usa alone. This mmo only has just over so far 7000 that gave.

    Not bashing this at all but do you know how many MILLIONS it takes to make a GOOD mmo? This is 2013 not 2004 or 2008. Things have changed. So unless these guys are working for free and have a ton of people working you will get what you paid for. So yeah if you just love all the FREE 2 PLAY games that come out from no names this is what this mmo will look like.

    A good mmo 30-60+ millions. If you know anything about investings ..this mmo says STAY AWAY big time. This guy has been around how long? Done how many MMO's? Now only 17 days left and still has not reached 2mil? 

    Just becareful. People always promise things and then when you dont even know them they promise you the world.. 

     

     You may not be bashing it, but did you know that they are aiming this to be a smaller population game by design?  So if it seems to be a smaller game it's because that's what they are going for...............

  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member
    Originally posted by Zeblade

    This mmo will never be a hit. The person making it should have left his name off of it. There are over 300 million people in the usa alone. This mmo only has just over so far 7000 that gave.

    ...

    Everyone with a brain tuned out after reading such an absurdly simplistic comment. 

    The first MMO's had thriving busy communities with only a few hundred thousand players total.

    Over 7000 people are already willing to put money down on this project 2 years before its even launched purely based on how great the concept is.

     

    But no, this MMO will not be a "hit".  It isnt supposed to be.  Its a niche game for a sector of the MMO playerbase that have been ignored and pushed aside by mainstream game developers for the past 5+ years.

  • seafirexseafirex gatineau, QCPosts: 357Member Uncommon

    Thats what my impression of that game was. It is skills leveling not player leveling like in PVE.

     

    1 thing i hope for is that if you put all your point in one area that there is a diminishing return that will affect the skills like that you wont get only one viable build or overpower skills because someone decided to put max point in it.

    There is some games where if you put all the points in a few specific skills it does insane damage and are overpower against others players that as a bit more weakness against those skills because of there class.

    I just hope they dont give all the points to max everything, they should make it so we have to choose carefully for the spending of points but dont restrict the respect option of it.

    -- Some games you can respect free and at any time ( that would be awesome ).

    -- Other games you have to pay to respect or get scrolls etc... or wait out of combat. ( that is not fun at all ).

    The way i see it and i can be wrong : but you should be able to adapt at any time. Specially in a pvp / rvr game. They should make it so if i am in a RVR match and able to get away for a certain time and i see i have difficulties against a group of players or even a single player because he use a certain skills or group of skills that dont match mine i should be able to have the chance to change mine given the chance while hidding behind a tree or somewhere so i can adapt and make it more fun.

    But if they make it that once you start a fight your in-combat and restricted to the skills your using then it is not fun at all in my opinion. If they want something very fun and keep players coming back to it. That should be the way to go. Dont restrict players specially in agame where we will see true pvp players that want to improve all the time this should be the way to go.

  • supergfunksupergfunk Laurinburg, NCPosts: 95Member
    Originally posted by Taldier
    Originally posted by Zeblade

    This mmo will never be a hit. The person making it should have left his name off of it. There are over 300 million people in the usa alone. This mmo only has just over so far 7000 that gave.

    ...

    Everyone with a brain tuned out after reading such an absurdly simplistic comment. 

    The first MMO's had thriving busy communities with only a few hundred thousand players total.

    Over 7000 people are already willing to put money down on this project 2 years before its even launched purely based on how great the concept is.

     

    But no, this MMO will not be a "hit".  It isnt supposed to be.  Its a niche game for a sector of the MMO playerbase that have been ignored and pushed aside by mainstream game developers for the past 5+ years.

    Well said.

    image

  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by bugmeno
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by bugmeno
    but without other players online when I am online I am screwed, right?

     we don't know.  If games can't gain in numbers of players or replace those quiting a game, eventually a game will run out of players. Nothing to worry about.

    but without sufficient population the game will be unplayable correct?

    not like other mmo where I can do lots of single player stuff when no one is online?

     Are you looking to beat  up on the game?  Is that the point of this thread to find some little snarky point?

    Look it isn't difficult, if  you don't have people to play against in a PVP game you don't have a game.  If numbers are so low they can't support the game it will close.

    Are you interested in this game?  If you aren't interested in this game as at release, why would you suddenly be interested later when the population is minimal?  It doesn't make sense...

     

    [mod edit]

    Im not sure how this is a valid question.   The content of the game is PvP, just like any other PvP game.  If there is nobody to PvP with then the game has failed and the servers will get shut down.

    To make the assumption that the question needs answered is to just assume that the game is going to fail.

    Its like asking "counterstrike is a PvP game right?  If everyone just stopped playing it I wouldnt have anyone to play against right?  Doesnt that make it bad?"

    Even MMO's with PvE are boring and pointless to play if there is nobody else for you to interact with.

  • KonfessKonfess Dallas, TXPosts: 949Member Uncommon

    From what MJ has said on this site in other thread, it is clear he is not worried about game population affecting RvR.  If there is a single server, then all players will be available for RvR.  I think this is the case.  The graphics test demos they have shown are of very high player density. Much higher than what an MMO typically supports on the screen at any one time.  If a realm had a typical level distribution, then this would limit player access to the RvR.  I am again guessing that player level will not be a factor.  

    But here is the thing I don’t think they have considered.  Players flee the losing side. Once it becomes apparent that one side is always winning, either due to player distribution, or game mechanics.  Then the losing side will suffer player exodus, either to the winning side or other games.  Mark my words, the time will come when the community starts to ask for character transfer to the winning realm.  When they don’t get it, well we shall just have to wait and see.
     

    Pardon any spelling errors
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  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILPosts: 2,656Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Taldier
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by bugmeno
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by bugmeno
    but without other players online when I am online I am screwed, right?

     we don't know.  If games can't gain in numbers of players or replace those quiting a game, eventually a game will run out of players. Nothing to worry about.

    but without sufficient population the game will be unplayable correct?

    not like other mmo where I can do lots of single player stuff when no one is online?

     Are you looking to beat  up on the game?  Is that the point of this thread to find some little snarky point?

    Look it isn't difficult, if  you don't have people to play against in a PVP game you don't have a game.  If numbers are so low they can't support the game it will close.

    Are you interested in this game?  If you aren't interested in this game as at release, why would you suddenly be interested later when the population is minimal?  It doesn't make sense...

     

    .....here we go again, fanboi's bashing a VALID question.

    Im not sure how this is a valid question.   The content of the game is PvP, just like any other PvP game.  If there is nobody to PvP with then the game has failed and the servers will get shut down.

    To make the assumption that the question needs answered is to just assume that the game is going to fail.

    Its like asking "counterstrike is a PvP game right?  If everyone just stopped playing it I wouldnt have anyone to play against right?  Doesnt that make it bad?"

    Even MMO's with PvE are boring and pointless to play if there is nobody else for you to interact with.

    Why are you only seeing this as black or white? The OP never said what if there was NEVER anybody to PvP against in game. He said what if he's not on during primetime or the population decreases. (I'm thinking decreases to the point where RvR slows down skilling up or leveling.)

     

    We already know that MJ has stated that there will be no skilling up off NPCs nor loot drops. And someone pointed out that builders can skill up without combat through crafting, but what about off hour players or those that work second or third shifts? Sure it might not be a problem right out the gate during the first few months after launch. But it will become a real problem a couple of years down the line. What about new players that come aboard after the initial rush? Will they be stuck with creating a builder as the only viable option?

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • ComafComaf Chicago, ILPosts: 1,154Member Common
    Originally posted by bugmeno

    so no NPC leveling, I read that

     

    what happens one day, when there are population decreases. Or when I play not in prime time.

    looking desperately for a player to fight to level up

    ???

     

     

    every recent MMO I played swtor gw2 tsw and tera you don't run into people for quite some time , this game needs 10 million subs and all of them on one server to make up for missing NPCs

     

    or they make a tiny game world much smaller than in other mmos to fill it up with players

    Even when Shadowbane was about to be pulled from the digital world, you could barely walk ten feet without being in pvp.  The game was similar in concept to what Mr. Jacobs is creating.  There was massive building (for every class)....to the point where you built your own cities, paid coin to keep the buildings repaired and running, and risked losing everything if sieged down.

     

    I wouldn't worry about a lack of players.  With the hogwash that's available for so callled mmorpgs these days, there will minimally be a fan base to keep this one afloat for the years to come.

     

    Worse comes to worse you can kill me every day lol...that should help!

    image
  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member
    Originally posted by Konfess

    ...But here is the thing I don’t think they have considered.  Players flee the losing side. Once it becomes apparent that one side is always winning, either due to player distribution, or game mechanics.  Then the losing side will suffer player exodus, either to the winning side or other games.  Mark my words, the time will come when the community starts to ask for character transfer to the winning realm.  When they don’t get it, well we shall just have to wait and see.
     

    I'm pretty sure they've considered it.  You arent exactly coming up with some genius new concept here.

    In fact its one of many bonuses for a tri-realm system.  It takes a lot of imbalance for a single realm to just dominate the combined forces of the other two.  And if it ever actually does come to that I have no doubt they have plans in mind.

    I feel like MJ has already hinted at things regarding the Depths, making sure to always describe them as "alive".  I see that as a potential balancing function if you can make the world itself fight back harder against a certain realm with traps and whatnot if that realm starts just completely overwhelming the other two.

  • MkilbrideMkilbride Hooksett, NHPosts: 637Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Konfess

    From what MJ has said on this site in other thread, it is clear he is not worried about game population affecting RvR.  If there is a single server, then all players will be available for RvR.  I think this is the case.  The graphics test demos they have shown are of very high player density. Much higher than what an MMO typically supports on the screen at any one time.  If a realm had a typical level distribution, then this would limit player access to the RvR.  I am again guessing that player level will not be a factor.  

    But here is the thing I don’t think they have considered.  Players flee the losing side. Once it becomes apparent that one side is always winning, either due to player distribution, or game mechanics.  Then the losing side will suffer player exodus, either to the winning side or other games.  Mark my words, the time will come when the community starts to ask for character transfer to the winning realm.  When they don’t get it, well we shall just have to wait and see.
     

    They absolutely considered it. It's three-realms. With that, there is no one side always dominating.

     

    Also, once you create a character on a realm, for that server, you are LOCKED TO THAT REALM.

     

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  • ComafComaf Chicago, ILPosts: 1,154Member Common
    Originally posted by Konfess

    From what MJ has said on this site in other thread, it is clear he is not worried about game population affecting RvR.  If there is a single server, then all players will be available for RvR.  I think this is the case.  The graphics test demos they have shown are of very high player density. Much higher than what an MMO typically supports on the screen at any one time.  If a realm had a typical level distribution, then this would limit player access to the RvR.  I am again guessing that player level will not be a factor.  

    But here is the thing I don’t think they have considered.  Players flee the losing side. Once it becomes apparent that one side is always winning, either due to player distribution, or game mechanics.  Then the losing side will suffer player exodus, either to the winning side or other games.  Mark my words, the time will come when the community starts to ask for character transfer to the winning realm.  When they don’t get it, well we shall just have to wait and see.
     

    I get frustrated at times by how many players have not played Dark Age of Camelot.  But let's use that model and welcome new players to three realm RvR:

    ...Where one side tends to be very well led (raid leaders), one side tends to be small and cliquish, and there's an "average" population side.  In three realm you'll quickly learn that even with one overpowered  realm (even a smaller realm can have 1 good prime time raid leader and make your realm cry rivers)....you still have to look over your shoulder.

     

    Getting sandwiched between two realms is an every day occurance in live Dark Age of Camelot.

    image
  • PAL-18PAL-18 AnachronoxPosts: 802Member

    heres some ideas.

    Build fortifications,place some traps,sharpen your weapons,repair castle,build catapults,maybe theres offline play,espionage....

    i dont know if theres anything like that but thats something i would do in PvP game like that.

     

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
    By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member


    Originally posted by Zeblade
    This mmo will never be a hit. The person making it should have left his name off of it. There are over 300 million people in the usa alone. This mmo only has just over so far 7000 that gave.

    Not bashing this at all but do you know how many MILLIONS it takes to make a GOOD mmo? This is 2013 not 2004 or 2008. Things have changed. So unless these guys are working for free and have a ton of people working you will get what you paid for. So yeah if you just love all the FREE 2 PLAY games that come out from no names this is what this mmo will look like.

    A good mmo 30-60+ millions. If you know anything about investings ..this mmo says STAY AWAY big time. This guy has been around how long? Done how many MMO's? Now only 17 days left and still has not reached 2mil? 

    Just becareful. People always promise things and then when you dont even know them they promise you the world.. 

     



    Please, name these good MMO's that have been made for +60m *snickers*

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  • GrimborGrimbor Houston, TXPosts: 23Member
    Originally posted by bugmeno

    so no NPC leveling, I read that

     

    what happens one day, when there are population decreases. Or when I play not in prime time.

    looking desperately for a player to fight to level up

    ???

     

     

    every recent MMO I played swtor gw2 tsw and tera you don't run into people for quite some time , this game needs 10 million subs and all of them on one server to make up for missing NPCs

     

    or they make a tiny game world much smaller than in other mmos to fill it up with players

    A few things, this game won't have the large empty spaces other games have for tons of PvE content.   Since this is a RvR game people won't need to just randomly run around to look for a fight, there will be points of interest that will draw people to conflict.  CSE has said that the leveling will be more horizontal than vertical meaning you should be able to contribute alot more as a new player and not get one hit by some max level character.  But basically server consolidation can fix low population problems up to a point, but if there are not enough players the game will fail.  They are doing alot of work and focusing their efforts on supporting large battles, but if they don't have enough players, well I suppose things just end.  I must be the exception to the rule because mindless PvE leveling ala SWTOR is just so boring to me.  I am hoping CU can give me my PvP fix, and keep me around with meaningful RvR fun and content.

  • macellismacellis DunedinPosts: 2Member
    There will be stuff to do if it is quiet on a particular night. Building, destroying or farming mats for crafting.
    If it is consistantly quiet maybe try the euro server. Might b closer to their peak time.
    I live in new zealand and played daoc for 4 years on a US server and didnt really have problems finding action at off peak hours. On the odd quiet night I worked on my house or gear.
    DAoC had plenty of PvE to take people away from RvR late night but I never really found it to be a problem.
  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Comaf
    Originally posted by Konfess

    From what MJ has said on this site in other thread, it is clear he is not worried about game population affecting RvR.  If there is a single server, then all players will be available for RvR.  I think this is the case.  The graphics test demos they have shown are of very high player density. Much higher than what an MMO typically supports on the screen at any one time.  If a realm had a typical level distribution, then this would limit player access to the RvR.  I am again guessing that player level will not be a factor.  

    But here is the thing I don’t think they have considered.  Players flee the losing side. Once it becomes apparent that one side is always winning, either due to player distribution, or game mechanics.  Then the losing side will suffer player exodus, either to the winning side or other games.  Mark my words, the time will come when the community starts to ask for character transfer to the winning realm.  When they don’t get it, well we shall just have to wait and see.
     

    I get frustrated at times by how many players have not played Dark Age of Camelot.  But let's use that model and welcome new players to three realm RvR:

    ...Where one side tends to be very well led (raid leaders), one side tends to be small and cliquish, and there's an "average" population side.  In three realm you'll quickly learn that even with one overpowered  realm (even a smaller realm can have 1 good prime time raid leader and make your realm cry rivers)....you still have to look over your shoulder.

     

    Getting sandwiched between two realms is an every day occurance in live Dark Age of Camelot.

     

    And i get frustrated having to constantly explain how modern players don't follow this script.  You're going to have dozens of super guilds coordinate where they're going to go beforehand and stack one side so heavily with 24/7 coverage, that the other 2 sides won't be able to do anything.  1 and 2 ganging up on 3 will happen far more than 2 and 3 ganging up on 1.

    This is how modern players roll.  They want to win at all costs, even at the expense of the game's health.  They don't see the big picture of spreading out for better competition.

  • PAL-18PAL-18 AnachronoxPosts: 802Member
    Originally posted by Alders
    Originally posted by Comaf
    Originally posted by Konfess

    From what MJ has said on this site in other thread, it is clear he is not worried about game population affecting RvR.  If there is a single server, then all players will be available for RvR.  I think this is the case.  The graphics test demos they have shown are of very high player density. Much higher than what an MMO typically supports on the screen at any one time.  If a realm had a typical level distribution, then this would limit player access to the RvR.  I am again guessing that player level will not be a factor.  

    But here is the thing I don’t think they have considered.  Players flee the losing side. Once it becomes apparent that one side is always winning, either due to player distribution, or game mechanics.  Then the losing side will suffer player exodus, either to the winning side or other games.  Mark my words, the time will come when the community starts to ask for character transfer to the winning realm.  When they don’t get it, well we shall just have to wait and see.
     

    I get frustrated at times by how many players have not played Dark Age of Camelot.  But let's use that model and welcome new players to three realm RvR:

    ...Where one side tends to be very well led (raid leaders), one side tends to be small and cliquish, and there's an "average" population side.  In three realm you'll quickly learn that even with one overpowered  realm (even a smaller realm can have 1 good prime time raid leader and make your realm cry rivers)....you still have to look over your shoulder.

     

    Getting sandwiched between two realms is an every day occurance in live Dark Age of Camelot.

     

    And i get frustrated having to constantly explain how modern players don't follow this script.  You're going to have dozens of super guilds coordinate where they're going to go beforehand and stack one side so heavily with 24/7 coverage, that the other 2 sides won't be able to do anything.  1 and 2 ganging up on 3 will happen far more than 2 and 3 ganging up on 1.

    This is how modern players roll.  They want to win at all costs, even at the expense of the game's health.  They don't see the big picture of spreading out for better competition.

    O smack,Planetside 2 anyone ? modern players:SOE you must let us change sides and let us keep our items,we are not changing to winning side,no no,I just cant play with my old wife anymore or i am moving to another country not to winning side.

    Modern players vs SOE,i think Modern players won.

     

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  • kamenriderkamenrider kapolei, HIPosts: 41Member

    Now that I think about it, this game may turn out to be great.  I never played DAOC but every friend that did, told me the pvp was superb.  Problem is that I played Warhammer and though I loved my warrior priest, the pop decreased quickly and it was harder to have fun in the open world as many were simply grinding scenarios.

    Seems leveling off pvp only shouldn't be a problem if the entire game is focused on activities to support pvp in some way.  At first, having a niche population of die-hard pvpers seemed less appealing to me until I realized that every single player is here to pvp.  If they do a good job on combat mechanics and interesting classes then I'd say player retention will be better than many other mmos that start off with a huge pop only to see it drop drastically shortly after.  Every player in your guild will enter the game with the same overall goal.

    Damn I think I just sold myself on this game haha. 

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by bugmeno

    so no NPC leveling, I read that

     

    what happens one day, when there are population decreases. Or when I play not in prime time.

    looking desperately for a player to fight to level up

    ???

     

     

    every recent MMO I played swtor gw2 tsw and tera you don't run into people for quite some time , this game needs 10 million subs and all of them on one server to make up for missing NPCs

     

    or they make a tiny game world much smaller than in other mmos to fill it up with players

    Or they just get rid of instances

  • tauraktaurak rock cave, WVPosts: 174Member

    Yes thats certianly somethign to consider with this game too.

    When a player logs in, they're going to be headed straight for some PvP. Unless maybe they're a crafter, but even then they will be involved in PvP, whether they like it or not.

    You might be safe for a little while, but sooner or later an enemy realm is going to come knocking on your little crafter shop door, and I don't think they will be there to buy your wares :)

    I wish we could fast forward to the time this game releases lol. I really wish I could play it right now today.

  • evil13evil13 Burlington, MAPosts: 359Member

    In daoc you can still find rvr action even with less than 1k players online (split between 3 realms) and daoc has pve. With rvr being the only gameplay (crafting aside) there should be even more action than in daoc. It's not like a server will drop down to less than a 100 people in off time.

     

    This might be more of a concern down the raod, when people leave the game, but even then, you just merge servers 9whcih is what they did in daoc) So this really isn't a concern.

  • bugmenobugmeno Iowa, IAPosts: 85Member
    Originally posted by waynejr2

     

     did you know that they are aiming this to be a smaller population game by design?  So if it seems to be a smaller game it's because that's what they are going for...............

     can someone point me to info about world size / map size?

    you know the bigger the places to go the more spread out population gets, I just can not imagine yet where you will be running around doing stuff

    So you have your friendly realm where you are building / Crafting ...? and then there are contested areas? or is the whole world contested and no safe places anywhere?

     I have no clue how the world architecture of UC is

    Do you "queue up" for a battle or do you just walk there/ travel there

     

    (if possible please don´t bash me anymore for questions, thanks)

    image
  • DaizeddDaizedd Salon de ProvencePosts: 142Member

    - No one knows anything about world size yet.

    -the only safe areas will be starting cities

    -the is no instancing, no queues, no battlegrounds

    -you will often (most often probably) be building/crafting in contested non-safe zones

    image
  • JalanterielJalanteriel KuchingPosts: 4Member

    I not too worried about the population issue, though it is a very valid point, especially with no PvE. What are you going to do when there no other players about/to level off?

    As we don't know what will the system be like/leveliing style/method. Here's what I can guess/speculate based on playing DaoC and other MMOs over the past 15-18years.

    I used to work odd hours so woud usually be playing DaoC at 3-5am. Not many people online then, but if you are looking for trouble, knock on a few doors at towers or keeps. It will light up. If theres anyone about, they wil go and investigate and youll have the odd scuffle. If not, you can most likely take down the door of the keep/tower over time. Perfect setup for the morning crew to raid later. I'm guessing you'll most likely get some XP/Skills doing that since you are contributing to RvR.

    Craft - Gather resources, build up your home, set up your shop/market. If you aren't into crafting, why not help any felow crafter/guildie that's online? Or try to help open up TD for your realm? Or as a crafter, set up traps in TD :)

    A few people mentioned changing sides, if MJ pulls the game off, I doubt anyone would want to do so, as realm pride would be a huge factor. I played on the EU servers, Prydwen, for a good 5-6 years as a Hib. I choose the realm mostly because the Ranger class appealed to me and I like supporting the underdog. We were almost always outnumbered, but that's the beauty of a 3vs3 system. The bigger realm is almost always countered by the other 2 realms. Then there's the community. We had a great community of player on Hib/Pry and I wouldn't have traded that to switch to any of the other realms.

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