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Why is the term Trolling so popular against non-supporters in Camelot Unchained? Come to reality, p

KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
Why is the term Trolling so popular with Camelot Unchained?

Hello gaming fans,

I'll start this discussion with how I've been watching closely the Camelot Unchained (CU) Kickstarter.

Before we begin, I have to tell my readers that I'm still on the fence.


There are some interesting posts about the description of how Mark Jacobs (MJ) wants the game to be, and I appreciate them.  Sort of, but they are filled with holes and left to mass speculation, as evident by the flood of forum posts, either critisizing MJ or requesting more information.


MJ does provide some answers, but CU seems more of a dream, started with an idea of Dark Age of Camelot (DAoC).  There really isn't anything to show when it comes to development of this game.  No alpha, no gameplay examples.


All that said, there is a disturbing trend, which I see mainly in the CU forums.  Accusations of trolling whenever someone indicates reservation about pledging.  Some CU fans even go so far as to say anyone who doesn't swear allegience to CU in this thread is a troll.

I feel that some hard-core CU fans really lost the edge when it comes to game acceptance / betterance / and denial.

Some people are in-fact trolls.  No question there.  But most of those posters considered trolls have a history of curiosity and questioning their games.  A natural behavior, and they should not be told to go away.


These people are not trolls, and, to be honest, making accusations of trolling only is making this game look really bad and Elitist.  Is Elitism what MJ is trying to accomplish?

Ask yourself that question next time you call someone a troll.


When you call someone a troll, ask yourslef if you are really the troll.  Because to someone without your "vision", that might be how you appear.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

«1

Comments

  • SmudgePudgeSmudgePudge Phoenix, AZPosts: 78Member

    When you post something like taus's "MJ is boring" thread you are adding no value whatsoever to the conversation. Obviously the Camelot Unchained Forums are where people are going to go to talk about CU and most of the people here want to talk about the game, not hear someones assanine opinion of a nerd in front of a camera.

    So you get trolled. Post something of value and you get responses. Like this post - it's kind of on the fence. You sneakily add in some actual comments about the game and it's progress to what would otherwise be a troll post. And maybe I'm naive but it feels like you've asked a serious question so I gave you a serious response without trolling.

    I'm a huge fan of the project but not an awestruck little boy. I'm up for discussing the pro's and con's but too often people just want to bash the game. So they get trolled. Pretty sure that's an Internet Law I read on 4chan :-)

    EDITED because I'm on my netbook and they size these damn keyboards to little girl fingers.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by SmudgePudge

    When you post something like taus's "MJ is boring" thread you are adding no value whatsoever to the conversation. Obviously the Camelot Unchained Forums are where people are going to go to talk about CU and most of the people here want to talk about the game, not hear someones assanine opinion of a nerd in front of a camera.

    So you get trolled. Post something of value and you get responses. Like this post - it's kind of on the fence. You sneakily add in some actual comments about the game and it's progress to what would otherwise be a troll post. And maybe I'm naive but it feels like you've asked a serious question so I gave you a serious response without trolling.

    I'm a huge fan of the project but not an awestruck little boy. I'm up for discussing the pro's and con's but too often people just want to bash the game. So they get trolled. Pretty sure that's an Internet Law I read on 4chan :-)

    EDITED because I'm on my netbook and they size these damn keyboards to little girl fingers.

    So, take it out on me?

     

    Watch those "you post" nonsense, becasue I never said MJ was boring .. k?

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • HjamnrHjamnr Madison, WIPosts: 163Member

    It's all about tone.

    There are a good many folks, yourself included in this, who are responding to CU forum threads, or creating their own, in a manner that attacks rather than asks real questions. 

    It's all "CU won't fund because it doesn't have a full fledged playable demo.", or "Mark Jacobs sucks and so does anything associated with him.", or "You fanboys are so blinded by your hopes and dreams that you are giving money to a charlatan company who's going to run off with all your money, suckers!"  There's variation on that, plus a few other types I don't remember the specifics of atm.

    There's also the folks who are deliberately posting negativity simply because the backers are excited and are posting threads here, at times spamming the little 5-slot "most recent threads" display.  They have admitted that that is why they are in here posting hate.

    If actual questions are asked, most people here will answer to the best of their ability, or point you to where you might learn an answer.

  • HjamnrHjamnr Madison, WIPosts: 163Member

    Here's a fresh example of what I'm talking about: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/382436/page/1

    That's caged as a question but the tone of it is obviously a troll, and if I remember correctly, the OP of that hates sub-games and already asked this question in the F2P/B2P/P2P debate thread.  He's using this new post to whine about CU using the P2P model.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by Hjamnr

    It's all about tone.

    There are a good many folks, yourself included in this, who are responding to CU forum threads, or creating their own, in a manner that attacks rather than asks real questions. 

    It's all "CU won't fund because it doesn't have a full fledged playable demo.", or "Mark Jacobs sucks and so does anything associated with him.", or "You fanboys are so blinded by your hopes and dreams that you are giving money to a charlatan company who's going to run off with all your money, suckers!"  There's variation on that, plus a few other types I don't remember the specifics of atm.

    There's also the folks who are deliberately posting negativity simply because the backers are excited and are posting threads here, at times spamming the little 5-slot "most recent threads" display.  They have admitted that that is why they are in here posting hate.

    If actual questions are asked, most people here will answer to the best of their ability, or point you to where you might learn an answer.

    Requesting answers isn't trolling .. neither is pushing buttons.  If buttons are pushed it's not to excite a response, but rather to get an explanation into what is going on, or to ask questions and get a deeper understanding.

     

    Challenging also isn't trolling.  But I see people challenging ideas & concepts getting called "trolls".  That is counter productive, IMO to any positive outcome for this game.

     

    Originally posted by Hjamnr

    It's all about tone.

    There are a good many folks, yourself included in this, who are responding to CU forum threads, or creating their own, in a manner that attacks rather than asks real questions. 

    It's all "CU won't fund because it doesn't have a full fledged playable demo.", or "Mark Jacobs sucks and so does anything associated with him.", or "You fanboys are so blinded by your hopes and dreams that you are giving money to a charlatan company who's going to run off with all your money, suckers!"  There's variation on that, plus a few other types I don't remember the specifics of atm.

    There's also the folks who are deliberately posting negativity simply because the backers are excited and are posting threads here, at times spamming the little 5-slot "most recent threads" display.  They have admitted that that is why they are in here posting hate.

    If actual questions are asked, most people here will answer to the best of their ability, or point you to where you might learn an answer.

     I don't think you quite grasp the severity of the topic I'm discussing.  I'm not talking about an obvious troll thread, but rather continual insertion of "troll" in various responses inside a thread.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • Punk999Punk999 Baytown, TXPosts: 875Member Uncommon

    It's all about hype man.

    When people get so hyped up over an "idea" anyone that thinks that idea might not be so great... is a troll.image

    "Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
    ^MMORPG.com

  • SmudgePudgeSmudgePudge Phoenix, AZPosts: 78Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SmudgePudge

    When you post something like taus's "MJ is boring" thread you are adding no value whatsoever to the conversation. Obviously the Camelot Unchained Forums are where people are going to go to talk about CU and most of the people here want to talk about the game, not hear someones assanine opinion of a nerd in front of a camera.

    So you get trolled. Post something of value and you get responses. Like this post - it's kind of on the fence. You sneakily add in some actual comments about the game and it's progress to what would otherwise be a troll post. And maybe I'm naive but it feels like you've asked a serious question so I gave you a serious response without trolling.

    I'm a huge fan of the project but not an awestruck little boy. I'm up for discussing the pro's and con's but too often people just want to bash the game. So they get trolled. Pretty sure that's an Internet Law I read on 4chan :-)

    EDITED because I'm on my netbook and they size these damn keyboards to little girl fingers.

    So, take it out on me?

     

    Watch those "you post" nonsense, becasue I never said MJ was boring .. k?

    I think I've found your problem lol. You are way too agressive.

    You weren't asking a first person question - "Why is everyone using the word Troll to respond to me". You were asking a third person question - "Why is everyone using the word Troll in this forum." I responded in kind and my use of the word 'you' was referring to the third person 'you' or just people in general.

    You jumped from the defensive straight to the offensive and threw a thinly veiled threat my way when I went so far as to specifically say I thought you were asking a serious question and not trying to troll.

    I guess I was wrong? You just wanted a fight? Sorry bro, you are going to have to look somewhere else. If you are actually curious as to why people are saying troll a lot then you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself what you really like about posting here - the conversation or the confrontation?

  • TuktzTuktz Atlanta, GAPosts: 299Member

    I think there are valid point threads questioning the cu project, and I also think there are ones just wanting to bash/troll people who support cu. depends on the poster I think

     

     the irony is I'm a cu supporter in kick starter, and earlier I defended the project with factual information against someone telling everyone why they don't support it, and I got a forum warning for trolling.... Don't make no sense lol

    image
    MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
    Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,481Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by Hjamnr

    It's all about tone.

    There are a good many folks, yourself included in this, who are responding to CU forum threads, or creating their own, in a manner that attacks rather than asks real questions. 

    It's all "CU won't fund because it doesn't have a full fledged playable demo.", or "Mark Jacobs sucks and so does anything associated with him.", or "You fanboys are so blinded by your hopes and dreams that you are giving money to a charlatan company who's going to run off with all your money, suckers!"  There's variation on that, plus a few other types I don't remember the specifics of atm.

    There's also the folks who are deliberately posting negativity simply because the backers are excited and are posting threads here, at times spamming the little 5-slot "most recent threads" display.  They have admitted that that is why they are in here posting hate.

    If actual questions are asked, most people here will answer to the best of their ability, or point you to where you might learn an answer.

    Requesting answers isn't trolling .. neither is pushing buttons.  If buttons are pushed it's not to excite a response, but rather to get an explanation into what is going on, or to ask questions and get a deeper understanding.

     

    Challenging also isn't trolling.  But I see people challenging ideas & concepts getting called "trolls".  That is counter productive, IMO to any positive outcome for this game.

     

    Originally posted by Hjamnr

    It's all about tone.

    There are a good many folks, yourself included in this, who are responding to CU forum threads, or creating their own, in a manner that attacks rather than asks real questions. 

    It's all "CU won't fund because it doesn't have a full fledged playable demo.", or "Mark Jacobs sucks and so does anything associated with him.", or "You fanboys are so blinded by your hopes and dreams that you are giving money to a charlatan company who's going to run off with all your money, suckers!"  There's variation on that, plus a few other types I don't remember the specifics of atm.

    There's also the folks who are deliberately posting negativity simply because the backers are excited and are posting threads here, at times spamming the little 5-slot "most recent threads" display.  They have admitted that that is why they are in here posting hate.

    If actual questions are asked, most people here will answer to the best of their ability, or point you to where you might learn an answer.

     I don't think you quite grasp the severity of the topic I'm discussing.  I'm not talking about an obvious troll thread, but rather continual insertion of "troll" in various responses inside a thread.

     Why do people choose to create or add negative spin in threads?  Say you don't like CU, why not ignore the forum completely?  If you don't ignore it when you hate it, doesn't that imply something is going on?

  • TumblebutzTumblebutz Henderson, NVPosts: 322Member
    Originally posted by Hjamnr

    It's all about tone.

    There are a good many folks, yourself included in this, who are responding to CU forum threads, or creating their own, in a manner that attacks rather than asks real questions. 

    It's all "CU won't fund because it doesn't have a full fledged playable demo.", or "Mark Jacobs sucks and so does anything associated with him.", or "You fanboys are so blinded by your hopes and dreams that you are giving money to a charlatan company who's going to run off with all your money, suckers!"  There's variation on that, plus a few other types I don't remember the specifics of atm.

    There's also the folks who are deliberately posting negativity simply because the backers are excited and are posting threads here, at times spamming the little 5-slot "most recent threads" display.  They have admitted that that is why they are in here posting hate.

    If actual questions are asked, most people here will answer to the best of their ability, or point you to where you might learn an answer.

    This.

    I've noticed four types of posts that can be interpretted as negative:

    1) CU is gonna suck and you suck for supporting it

    2) CU sucks because A, B and C (all or some of which are legitimate concerns)

    3) CU sucks because A, B and C (all or some of which are false and have been addressed by MJ)

    4) I'm on the fence about CU.  Can anyone answer these questions I have to help me understand a bit better?

    Number (1) is clearly a troll.

    Number (2) is not.  However, it does  become frustrating when supporters (or MJ himself) have to address misconceptions that could EASILY be dispelled by doing the tiniest bit of research, like clicking the CU link on this very site.

    Number (3) is a troll, imo.

    Number (4) is not a troll and is typically responded to very generously by this community.

     

    Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

    RED IS DEAD!

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by SmudgePudge
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SmudgePudge

    When you post something like taus's "MJ is boring" thread you are adding no value whatsoever to the conversation. Obviously the Camelot Unchained Forums are where people are going to go to talk about CU and most of the people here want to talk about the game, not hear someones assanine opinion of a nerd in front of a camera.

    So you get trolled. Post something of value and you get responses. Like this post - it's kind of on the fence. You sneakily add in some actual comments about the game and it's progress to what would otherwise be a troll post. And maybe I'm naive but it feels like you've asked a serious question so I gave you a serious response without trolling.

    I'm a huge fan of the project but not an awestruck little boy. I'm up for discussing the pro's and con's but too often people just want to bash the game. So they get trolled. Pretty sure that's an Internet Law I read on 4chan :-)

    EDITED because I'm on my netbook and they size these damn keyboards to little girl fingers.

    So, take it out on me?

     

    Watch those "you post" nonsense, becasue I never said MJ was boring .. k?

    I think I've found your problem lol. You are way too agressive.

    You weren't asking a first person question - "Why is everyone using the word Troll to respond to me". You were asking a third person question - "Why is everyone using the word Troll in this forum." I responded in kind and my use of the word 'you' was referring to the third person 'you' or just people in general.

    You jumped from the defensive straight to the offensive and threw a thinly veiled threat my way when I went so far as to specifically say I thought you were asking a serious question and not trying to troll.

    I guess I was wrong? You just wanted a fight? Sorry bro, you are going to have to look somewhere else. If you are actually curious as to why people are saying troll a lot then you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself what you really like about posting here - the conversation or the confrontation?

    I think not.  Using "you" is very direct, and implies direction at whom you are speaking to.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by Hjamnr

    It's all about tone.

    There are a good many folks, yourself included in this, who are responding to CU forum threads, or creating their own, in a manner that attacks rather than asks real questions. 

    It's all "CU won't fund because it doesn't have a full fledged playable demo.", or "Mark Jacobs sucks and so does anything associated with him.", or "You fanboys are so blinded by your hopes and dreams that you are giving money to a charlatan company who's going to run off with all your money, suckers!"  There's variation on that, plus a few other types I don't remember the specifics of atm.

    There's also the folks who are deliberately posting negativity simply because the backers are excited and are posting threads here, at times spamming the little 5-slot "most recent threads" display.  They have admitted that that is why they are in here posting hate.

    If actual questions are asked, most people here will answer to the best of their ability, or point you to where you might learn an answer.

    Requesting answers isn't trolling .. neither is pushing buttons.  If buttons are pushed it's not to excite a response, but rather to get an explanation into what is going on, or to ask questions and get a deeper understanding.

     

    Challenging also isn't trolling.  But I see people challenging ideas & concepts getting called "trolls".  That is counter productive, IMO to any positive outcome for this game.

     

    Originally posted by Hjamnr

    It's all about tone.

    There are a good many folks, yourself included in this, who are responding to CU forum threads, or creating their own, in a manner that attacks rather than asks real questions. 

    It's all "CU won't fund because it doesn't have a full fledged playable demo.", or "Mark Jacobs sucks and so does anything associated with him.", or "You fanboys are so blinded by your hopes and dreams that you are giving money to a charlatan company who's going to run off with all your money, suckers!"  There's variation on that, plus a few other types I don't remember the specifics of atm.

    There's also the folks who are deliberately posting negativity simply because the backers are excited and are posting threads here, at times spamming the little 5-slot "most recent threads" display.  They have admitted that that is why they are in here posting hate.

    If actual questions are asked, most people here will answer to the best of their ability, or point you to where you might learn an answer.

     I don't think you quite grasp the severity of the topic I'm discussing.  I'm not talking about an obvious troll thread, but rather continual insertion of "troll" in various responses inside a thread.

     Why do people choose to create or add negative spin in threads?  Say you don't like CU, why not ignore the forum completely?  If you don't ignore it when you hate it, doesn't that imply something is going on?

    What if someone is interested, yet doesn't like the trolling aspects (regarded as elitism)?  Come to the realization that many people asking questions are interested in CU, but not convinced.  The world isn't simply black and white, you know - there are other colors.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • ArbroathArbroath Depew, NYPosts: 175Member
    I can't wait for this to fund so we can get our own forums and get away from the "button pushers" who, of course, are not trolls...

    It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. ~Declaration of Arbroath

  • pantheronpantheron calhoun, GAPosts: 170Member
    the only people who will agree with you in this thread are people who thought the way you did anyway, and probably aren't supporters of CU. just like they preach to the choir, so are you. its just in a different church. 

    I play MMOs for the Forum PVP

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by Arbroath
    I can't wait for this to fund so we can get our own forums and get away from the "button pushers" who, of course, are not trolls...

    With all due respect, those button pushers are also your eventual pledgers.

     

    edit: but this is a good example of an elitist post which I would encourage CU fans to stear away from, if this game is to ever get funded.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,481Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by Hjamnr

    It's all about tone.

    There are a good many folks, yourself included in this, who are responding to CU forum threads, or creating their own, in a manner that attacks rather than asks real questions. 

    It's all "CU won't fund because it doesn't have a full fledged playable demo.", or "Mark Jacobs sucks and so does anything associated with him.", or "You fanboys are so blinded by your hopes and dreams that you are giving money to a charlatan company who's going to run off with all your money, suckers!"  There's variation on that, plus a few other types I don't remember the specifics of atm.

    There's also the folks who are deliberately posting negativity simply because the backers are excited and are posting threads here, at times spamming the little 5-slot "most recent threads" display.  They have admitted that that is why they are in here posting hate.

    If actual questions are asked, most people here will answer to the best of their ability, or point you to where you might learn an answer.

    Requesting answers isn't trolling .. neither is pushing buttons.  If buttons are pushed it's not to excite a response, but rather to get an explanation into what is going on, or to ask questions and get a deeper understanding.

     

    Challenging also isn't trolling.  But I see people challenging ideas & concepts getting called "trolls".  That is counter productive, IMO to any positive outcome for this game.

     

    Originally posted by Hjamnr

    It's all about tone.

    There are a good many folks, yourself included in this, who are responding to CU forum threads, or creating their own, in a manner that attacks rather than asks real questions. 

    It's all "CU won't fund because it doesn't have a full fledged playable demo.", or "Mark Jacobs sucks and so does anything associated with him.", or "You fanboys are so blinded by your hopes and dreams that you are giving money to a charlatan company who's going to run off with all your money, suckers!"  There's variation on that, plus a few other types I don't remember the specifics of atm.

    There's also the folks who are deliberately posting negativity simply because the backers are excited and are posting threads here, at times spamming the little 5-slot "most recent threads" display.  They have admitted that that is why they are in here posting hate.

    If actual questions are asked, most people here will answer to the best of their ability, or point you to where you might learn an answer.

     I don't think you quite grasp the severity of the topic I'm discussing.  I'm not talking about an obvious troll thread, but rather continual insertion of "troll" in various responses inside a thread.

     Why do people choose to create or add negative spin in threads?  Say you don't like CU, why not ignore the forum completely?  If you don't ignore it when you hate it, doesn't that imply something is going on?

    What if someone is interested, yet doesn't like the trolling aspects (regarded as elitism)?  Come to the realization that many people asking questions are interested in CU, but not convinced.  The world isn't simply black and white, you know - there are other colors.

     Are you going to buy the game based on information you have right now?  Yes or no?

    If no, why would you choose to continue using your valuable time posting in this forum?  Not trying to take away your right to say stuff, but why?

  • SmudgePudgeSmudgePudge Phoenix, AZPosts: 78Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SmudgePudge
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SmudgePudge

    When you post something like taus's "MJ is boring" thread you are adding no value whatsoever to the conversation. Obviously the Camelot Unchained Forums are where people are going to go to talk about CU and most of the people here want to talk about the game, not hear someones assanine opinion of a nerd in front of a camera.

    So you get trolled. Post something of value and you get responses. Like this post - it's kind of on the fence. You sneakily add in some actual comments about the game and it's progress to what would otherwise be a troll post. And maybe I'm naive but it feels like you've asked a serious question so I gave you a serious response without trolling.

    I'm a huge fan of the project but not an awestruck little boy. I'm up for discussing the pro's and con's but too often people just want to bash the game. So they get trolled. Pretty sure that's an Internet Law I read on 4chan :-)

    EDITED because I'm on my netbook and they size these damn keyboards to little girl fingers.

    So, take it out on me?

     

    Watch those "you post" nonsense, becasue I never said MJ was boring .. k?

    I think I've found your problem lol. You are way too agressive.

    You weren't asking a first person question - "Why is everyone using the word Troll to respond to me". You were asking a third person question - "Why is everyone using the word Troll in this forum." I responded in kind and my use of the word 'you' was referring to the third person 'you' or just people in general.

    You jumped from the defensive straight to the offensive and threw a thinly veiled threat my way when I went so far as to specifically say I thought you were asking a serious question and not trying to troll.

    I guess I was wrong? You just wanted a fight? Sorry bro, you are going to have to look somewhere else. If you are actually curious as to why people are saying troll a lot then you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself what you really like about posting here - the conversation or the confrontation?

    I think not.  Using "you" is very direct, and implies direction at whom you are speaking to.

    Lol - alright man. Keep ignoring the actual content of my responses because you've never heard someone use the word 'you' in the third person before. Here's the wiki link though in case you want to brush up on your english:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You

    Now, that was trolling. But it's 100% in keeping with my original response - you post stuff with no value you get trolled.

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Why is the term Trolling so popular with Camelot Unchained?

    Hello gaming fans,

    I'll start this discussion with how I've been watching closely the Camelot Unchained (CU) Kickstarter.

    Before we begin, I have to tell my readers that I'm still on the fence.


    There are some interesting posts about the description of how Mark Jacobs (MJ) wants the game to be, and I appreciate them.  Sort of, but they are filled with holes and left to mass speculation, as evident by the flood of forum posts, either critisizing MJ or requesting more information.


    MJ does provide some answers, but CU seems more of a dream, started with an idea of Dark Age of Camelot (DAoC).  There really isn't anything to show when it comes to development of this game.  No alpha, no gameplay examples.


    All that said, there is a disturbing trend, which I see mainly in the CU forums.  Accusations of trolling whenever someone indicates reservation about pledging.  Some CU fans even go so far as to say anyone who doesn't swear allegience to CU in this thread is a troll.

    I feel that some hard-core CU fans really lost the edge when it comes to game acceptance / betterance / and denial.

    Some people are in-fact trolls.  No question there.  But most of those posters considered trolls have a history of curiosity and questioning their games.  A natural behavior, and they should not be told to go away.


    These people are not trolls, and, to be honest, making accusations of trolling only is making this game look really bad and Elitist.  Is Elitism what MJ is trying to accomplish?

    Ask yourself that question next time you call someone a troll.


    When you call someone a troll, ask yourslef if you are really the troll.  Because to someone without your "vision", that might be how you appear.

    and that's why it's called SUPPORT and not BUYING it.

    we believe in the idea. you don't fine.

     

    why can't it end here? why do "non supporters" need to convice the rest that their support is "wrong"?

     

    Troll:

    "One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message boardwith the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument"  (Source: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll )

     

    in oposite to someone who gives creative feedback.

    sure, question it as much as you like. but let's turn this here around:

    if there aren't enough infos for the "pros" to support that game, how can it be that there are enough infos for the "cons" not to support it? :)

     

    ask yourself that question next time  *G*

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by SmudgePudge
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SmudgePudge
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SmudgePudge

    When you post something like taus's "MJ is boring" thread you are adding no value whatsoever to the conversation. Obviously the Camelot Unchained Forums are where people are going to go to talk about CU and most of the people here want to talk about the game, not hear someones assanine opinion of a nerd in front of a camera.

    So you get trolled. Post something of value and you get responses. Like this post - it's kind of on the fence. You sneakily add in some actual comments about the game and it's progress to what would otherwise be a troll post. And maybe I'm naive but it feels like you've asked a serious question so I gave you a serious response without trolling.

    I'm a huge fan of the project but not an awestruck little boy. I'm up for discussing the pro's and con's but too often people just want to bash the game. So they get trolled. Pretty sure that's an Internet Law I read on 4chan :-)

    EDITED because I'm on my netbook and they size these damn keyboards to little girl fingers.

    So, take it out on me?

     

    Watch those "you post" nonsense, becasue I never said MJ was boring .. k?

    I think I've found your problem lol. You are way too agressive.

    You weren't asking a first person question - "Why is everyone using the word Troll to respond to me". You were asking a third person question - "Why is everyone using the word Troll in this forum." I responded in kind and my use of the word 'you' was referring to the third person 'you' or just people in general.

    You jumped from the defensive straight to the offensive and threw a thinly veiled threat my way when I went so far as to specifically say I thought you were asking a serious question and not trying to troll.

    I guess I was wrong? You just wanted a fight? Sorry bro, you are going to have to look somewhere else. If you are actually curious as to why people are saying troll a lot then you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself what you really like about posting here - the conversation or the confrontation?

    I think not.  Using "you" is very direct, and implies direction at whom you are speaking to.

    Lol - alright man. Keep ignoring the actual content of my responses because you've never heard someone use the word 'you' in the third person before. Here's the wiki link though in case you want to brush up on your english:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You

    Now, that was trolling. But it's 100% in keeping with my original response - you post stuff with no value you get trolled.

    I can't guarantee that anyone reading your response would understand your definition of 3rd person.  Because when you say that "you said MJ was boring", that implied I said that, which I did not.  Keep it in the context of forum posts.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    lol I've been harrassed right out of threads where I said I was glad that hardcore PvP'ers would have something to play.  I see the whole thing as a "if you're not with us, you're against us" deal.  Or maybe they aren't used to people being polite so they thought I was trolling?  Either way, I generally stay out of the way now, but I hate to think of what that attitude does for people on the fence.
  • Vlhad77Vlhad77 Mountain Home, ARPosts: 139Member Uncommon
    all i know is, i could give a crap how other people want to do with their money and support it or not its up them, but i know one dam thing is when i get the chance to hopefully soon, I will be putting some $$ in toward the game, why because i can and i like it.  I dont need no body's permission to do what i want to do.
  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAPosts: 1,322Member Uncommon

    This CU thing is a trade off of sorts. I'm sure there are a lot of CU fans that could easily make a forum and all of them could go there to talk about CU (until the offical forums are opened) away from the "trolls". They wont do that though because they need KS to get funded and having a private forum is counter productive to that goal. That is understandable but you can not expect the members of this site to just go away or not post in these forums. They are public after all.

    Not everyone that has doubts about CU is a troll. If you guys are going to make thread after thread about CU you should expect those same threads to have negative posts. That is just the way of a public forum. They have every right to say the negative as you do the positive. Doesn't make them a troll. It just means they have a different opinion than you do. If you don't want to hear any negative it's time for one of you to make a forum, have MJ open one up or just block everyone that disagrees with you. For now until KS is over it looks like we all have to take the good with the bad.

     

  • SmudgePudgeSmudgePudge Phoenix, AZPosts: 78Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SmudgePudge
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SmudgePudge
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SmudgePudge

    When you post something like taus's "MJ is boring" thread you are adding no value whatsoever to the conversation. Obviously the Camelot Unchained Forums are where people are going to go to talk about CU and most of the people here want to talk about the game, not hear someones assanine opinion of a nerd in front of a camera.

    So you get trolled. Post something of value and you get responses. Like this post - it's kind of on the fence. You sneakily add in some actual comments about the game and it's progress to what would otherwise be a troll post. And maybe I'm naive but it feels like you've asked a serious question so I gave you a serious response without trolling.

    I'm a huge fan of the project but not an awestruck little boy. I'm up for discussing the pro's and con's but too often people just want to bash the game. So they get trolled. Pretty sure that's an Internet Law I read on 4chan :-)

    EDITED because I'm on my netbook and they size these damn keyboards to little girl fingers.

    So, take it out on me?

     

    Watch those "you post" nonsense, becasue I never said MJ was boring .. k?

    I think I've found your problem lol. You are way too agressive.

    You weren't asking a first person question - "Why is everyone using the word Troll to respond to me". You were asking a third person question - "Why is everyone using the word Troll in this forum." I responded in kind and my use of the word 'you' was referring to the third person 'you' or just people in general.

    You jumped from the defensive straight to the offensive and threw a thinly veiled threat my way when I went so far as to specifically say I thought you were asking a serious question and not trying to troll.

    I guess I was wrong? You just wanted a fight? Sorry bro, you are going to have to look somewhere else. If you are actually curious as to why people are saying troll a lot then you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself what you really like about posting here - the conversation or the confrontation?

    I think not.  Using "you" is very direct, and implies direction at whom you are speaking to.

    Lol - alright man. Keep ignoring the actual content of my responses because you've never heard someone use the word 'you' in the third person before. Here's the wiki link though in case you want to brush up on your english:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You

    Now, that was trolling. But it's 100% in keeping with my original response - you post stuff with no value you get trolled.

    I can't guarantee that anyone reading your response would understand your definition of 3rd person.  Because when you say that "you said MJ was boring", that implied I said that, which I did not.  Keep it in the context of forum posts.

    So what, you don't believe me when I tell you that I didn't mean you -> Karteli and actually you as in people in general? And are you just not seeing the word "taus's" before "MJ is boring"?

    So here we are 4 or 5 responses deep and neither of us have actually posted anything of value since your first post. Why? Because you are looking for confrontation, not conversation. You assumed I was being confrontational because that is your reality - those are the glasses with which you see the world through. I couldn't possibly have meant anything different.

    So yeah, you get a lot of confrontation and trolls. But that is what you are looking for.

  • SpeelySpeely Seattle, WAPosts: 861Member
    Bugmeno just made a thread that contained misgivings about certain gameplay mechanics, and it wasn't incendiary in any way. That is a great example of not trolling.

    Some people just like to stir things up, though. It's kinda just a part of any enthusiast forum.
  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    In 17 days it's not really going to matter if someone is a troll or not.
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