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Comments from Kevin Saunders : project Lead for Torment :

BowbowDAoCBowbowDAoC Granby, QCPosts: 470Member

[MJ] You guys want to hear something really nice? A compliment we got on Friday from Kevin Saunders, Project Lead for Torment. FYI, this is only part of what he said:

"Especially for this stage in development, the battle technical demos for Camelot Unchained are astounding -- to achieve such fluid motion with so many unique characters onscreen bodes very well for what will be possible over the course of a couple years of work.

But after watching update 16, it's the Depths that's has me most excited. It's truly inspiring from a design perspective. There's clearly a host of design (and technical) problems that need to be solved (with "who gets to be the boss?" as one you call out), but intuitively I sense it's all very achievable, and with results that will be spectacular. I have no doubts that over the course of development your team will be able to provide a unique and compelling experience to which the acronym MMORPG will do a disservice. "

 

[mod edit]

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Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

image

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Comments

  • TheJodaTheJoda chicago, ILPosts: 467Member
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

    [MJ] You guys want to hear something really nice? A compliment we got on Friday from Kevin Saunders, Project Lead for Torment. FYI, this is only part of what he said:

    "Especially for this stage in development, the battle technical demos for Camelot Unchained are astounding -- to achieve such fluid motion with so many unique characters onscreen bodes very well for what will be possible over the course of a couple years of work.

    But after watching update 16, it's the Depths that's has me most excited. It's truly inspiring from a design perspective. There's clearly a host of design (and technical) problems that need to be solved (with "who gets to be the boss?" as one you call out), but intuitively I sense it's all very achievable, and with results that will be spectacular. I have no doubts that over the course of development your team will be able to provide a unique and compelling experience to which the acronym MMORPG will do a disservice. "

     

    Coming from "competition" it's worth 20 times the comments from any of us backers or haters. it comes from someone in the industry too, so they know what they are talking about.

    This alone should remove doubts from a few people.

    [mod edit]  This WONT remove any doubts it was avatars all standing around, with no effects or magic going on in the background.  Again let me see a proof of concept or a working game demo of combat, or the game engine in general even a ALPHA model.   That will REMOVE doubts!!! not MORE words! 

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • jplusplusjplusplus Bradford, MAPosts: 19Member
    Good post, I can't agree more. The amount of technical progress on this game engine in just a few weeks has me more excited than anything else so far. Having an in-house engine, hand-tailored to support CSE's vision for this game is going to be huge. 
  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 467Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

    [MJ] You guys want to hear something really nice? A compliment we got on Friday from Kevin Saunders, Project Lead for Torment. FYI, this is only part of what he said:

    "Especially for this stage in development, the battle technical demos for Camelot Unchained are astounding -- to achieve such fluid motion with so many unique characters onscreen bodes very well for what will be possible over the course of a couple years of work.

    But after watching update 16, it's the Depths that's has me most excited. It's truly inspiring from a design perspective. There's clearly a host of design (and technical) problems that need to be solved (with "who gets to be the boss?" as one you call out), but intuitively I sense it's all very achievable, and with results that will be spectacular. I have no doubts that over the course of development your team will be able to provide a unique and compelling experience to which the acronym MMORPG will do a disservice. "

     

    Coming from "competition" it's worth 20 times the comments from any of us backers or haters. it comes from someone in the industry too, so they know what they are talking about.

    This alone should remove doubts from a few people.

    [mod edit]  This WONT remove any doubts.  Again let me see a proof of concept or a working game demo of combat, or the game engine in general even a ALPHA model.   That will REMOVE doubts!!! not MORE words! 

    Umm, we have 2 alpha models and two tech demos. The alpha models are each about 12K tris (the limit Andrew has set), rigged, textured and animated with a simple walk cycle and attack cycle. Both models are being used in the tech demos, SmackHammer (server + early networking code test) and our in-house engine. These things can be found as per below.

    Viking: Here

    TDD:  Here

    Friday's in-house Build (new one goes up next week) here.

    We should also have another new model next week and two iterations of both the SH tech and our in-house engine.

    All you had to do was ask. :)

    Mark

     

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • TablixTablix DunstablePosts: 32Member
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

    [MJ] You guys want to hear something really nice? A compliment we got on Friday from Kevin Saunders, Project Lead for Torment. FYI, this is only part of what he said:

    "Especially for this stage in development, the battle technical demos for Camelot Unchained are astounding -- to achieve such fluid motion with so many unique characters onscreen bodes very well for what will be possible over the course of a couple years of work.

    But after watching update 16, it's the Depths that's has me most excited. It's truly inspiring from a design perspective. There's clearly a host of design (and technical) problems that need to be solved (with "who gets to be the boss?" as one you call out), but intuitively I sense it's all very achievable, and with results that will be spectacular. I have no doubts that over the course of development your team will be able to provide a unique and compelling experience to which the acronym MMORPG will do a disservice. "

     

    Coming from "competition" it's worth 20 times the comments from any of us backers or haters. it comes from someone in the industry too, so they know what they are talking about.

    This alone should remove doubts from a few people.

    [mod edit]  This WONT remove any doubts.  Again let me see a proof of concept or a working game demo of combat, or the game engine in general even a ALPHA model.   That will REMOVE doubts!!! not MORE words! 

    Umm, we have 2 alpha models and two tech demos. The alpha models are each about 12K tris (the limit Andrew has set), rigged, textured and animated with a simple walk cycle and attack cycle. Both models are being used in the tech demoss, SmackHammer (server + early networking code test) and our in-house engine.

    Viking: Here

    TDD:  Here

    Friday's in-house Build (new one goes up next week) here.

    We should also have another new model next week and two iterations of both the SH tech and our in-house engine.

    All you had to do was ask. :)

    Mark

     

    You want $2mil in backing for creating a couple of 3d models??  Seroiusly this sort of "evidence" is hardly worth investment from anyone but the gullible.  Yes you have a couple of staff in the background working on concept art and generally trying to look busy but I am not convinced you have anything more than a few story board ideas and a few people modelling atm.  If you plan to build an entire ENGINE then completely bug test AND release in 2 years your budget is not going to go very far once you start paying your staff.  Your timeline means you are going to need more than a dozen staff and in saleries alone your are going to be hard pushed to get under budget IF you succeed on your schedule.  How about you release some details of your budget and how you plan to spend it, some detailed timelines for progress and targets.  If you went to a bank for money they would demand all this and more so please give your potential investors some credit and give more details than pretty things to confuse the kids out of their pocket money.  You have tiers for over $1000 in investment into an IDEA, please show some REAL BUSINESS PLAN then I may consider donating as I wont be getting any profit share just some access rights at the end of the project.

     

     

  • TheJodaTheJoda chicago, ILPosts: 467Member
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

    [MJ] You guys want to hear something really nice? A compliment we got on Friday from Kevin Saunders, Project Lead for Torment. FYI, this is only part of what he said:

    "Especially for this stage in development, the battle technical demos for Camelot Unchained are astounding -- to achieve such fluid motion with so many unique characters onscreen bodes very well for what will be possible over the course of a couple years of work.

    But after watching update 16, it's the Depths that's has me most excited. It's truly inspiring from a design perspective. There's clearly a host of design (and technical) problems that need to be solved (with "who gets to be the boss?" as one you call out), but intuitively I sense it's all very achievable, and with results that will be spectacular. I have no doubts that over the course of development your team will be able to provide a unique and compelling experience to which the acronym MMORPG will do a disservice. "

     

    Coming from "competition" it's worth 20 times the comments from any of us backers or haters. it comes from someone in the industry too, so they know what they are talking about.

    This alone should remove doubts from a few people.

    [mod edit]  This WONT remove any doubts.  Again let me see a proof of concept or a working game demo of combat, or the game engine in general even a ALPHA model.   That will REMOVE doubts!!! not MORE words! 

    Umm, we have 2 alpha models and two tech demos:

    Viking: Here

    TDD:  Here

    Friday's in-house Build (new one goes up next week) here.

    All you had to do was ask. :)

    Mark

    ....Now this was/ is a great start to showing what the engine and your take on the models will be for sure, I applaud you for getting these out to the public! 

     I feel these videos showing the races and their differences, and how they incorporate their kills or enviroments into their armor and weapons are a great concept.  I feel more of these videos will bring you in new backers and dispell some of the reasons of non-backers like myself might feel we have at the moment.

    But I feel we need to see more, at least I do as a consumer.  For example, again this is MY OPINION if I saw one of each race, and a working game demo of the combat of your different classes, or some of your landscapes, castles, skies and water effects  you would have my money for sure.....AGAIN thats MY OPINION, I understand not all will agree or disagree.  

     

    I do wish you the best Mark!

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • MkilbrideMkilbride Hooksett, NHPosts: 637Member Uncommon

    Why does EVERYONE have their panties in a twist over this? It was just showing friendly chats between two developers, it was neat and interesting.

     

    Yet, here @ MMORPG.com, nothing can be posted without some kind of flame war starting.

    Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

  • MaricMaric Roseville, CAPosts: 71Member Uncommon

    I love how all of the sudden everyone is a game engine expert.

    Maybe Kevin Saunders can help drive some potential backers to CU.  That is a great compliment MJ!  Looking forward to more art and tech 'reveals' prior to fund date!

  • BowbowDAoCBowbowDAoC Granby, QCPosts: 470Member
    Originally posted by Mkilbride

    Why does EVERYONE have their panties in a twist over this? It was just showing friendly chats between two developers, it was neat and interesting.

     

    Yet, here @ MMORPG.com, nothing can be posted without some kind of flame war starting.

    yup totally right. i blocked 2 people just from this thread alone.

    image

    Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
    Thurka on WAR

    image

  • TumblebutzTumblebutz Henderson, NVPosts: 322Member
    Originally posted by Mkilbride

    Why does EVERYONE have their panties in a twist over this? It was just showing friendly chats between two developers, it was neat and interesting.

     

    Yet, here @ MMORPG.com, nothing can be posted without some kind of flame war starting.

    Because this is the internet? ;)

    Very encouraging, MJ!

    Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

    RED IS DEAD!

  • TheJodaTheJoda chicago, ILPosts: 467Member
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC
    Originally posted by Mkilbride

    Why does EVERYONE have their panties in a twist over this? It was just showing friendly chats between two developers, it was neat and interesting.

     

    Yet, here @ MMORPG.com, nothing can be posted without some kind of flame war starting.

    yup totally right. i blocked 2 people just from this thread alone.

    ....how mature, someone dont agree with YOUR opinion so you block them. 

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • Ungwe_LiantiUngwe_Lianti LondonPosts: 9Member

    Hmmz, $2 mill + another 2 when we reach the pledge goal, and as far as i remember 1 is allready put into the project as a start. Dark age of camelot was created with a budget of aprox $2 mill, they had a crew wich was about the same size in number as CU will have once it's funded. It took about the same time to get released as the plan is for CU. There were even enough money for Mythic back then to Purchase their servers cash because they didn't get to lease the servers wich is quite expencive. Something tells me it's gona be alot easier for Mr. Jacobs this time with 15 years extra experience, alot more budget behind the project, more hardware probably and so on. I don't need any proof of a business plan whatsoever, i just want to know that this isn't going to be a WoWcloned mess like all other newer mmo's out there, i only want to know that this isn't going to be a game for teenagers, and i want alot of skills, options/personification not only by looks. The rest i trust Jacobs and his crew will sort out perfectly.

     

    After all, He was kicking the Dark age of camelot world to life!

  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member
    Originally posted by TheJoda

    [mod edit]  This WONT remove any doubts it was avatars all standing around, with no effects or magic going on in the background.  Again let me see a proof of concept or a working game demo of combat, or the game engine in general even a ALPHA model.   That will REMOVE doubts!!! not MORE words! 

    Originally posted by Tablix

    You want $2mil in backing for creating a couple of 3d models??  Seroiusly this sort of "evidence" is hardly worth investment from anyone but the gullible.  Yes you have a couple of staff in the background working on concept art and generally trying to look busy but I am not convinced you have anything more than a few story board ideas and a few people modelling atm.  If you plan to build an entire ENGINE then completely bug test AND release in 2 years your budget is not going to go very far once you start paying your staff.  Your timeline means you are going to need more than a dozen staff and in saleries alone your are going to be hard pushed to get under budget IF you succeed on your schedule.  How about you release some details of your budget and how you plan to spend it, some detailed timelines for progress and targets.  If you went to a bank for money they would demand all this and more so please give your potential investors some credit and give more details than pretty things to confuse the kids out of their pocket money.  You have tiers for over $1000 in investment into an IDEA, please show some REAL BUSINESS PLAN then I may consider donating as I wont be getting any profit share just some access rights at the end of the project.

    Alpha wont be for over a year.  They arent at that stage.  They are at the start of development.  You know, that point where you can give your opinions and feedback and have them actually matter before everything is already settled?

     

    Do the people posting in this thread really think a well known industry figure is just going to run off with the money instead of making the game?  He's investing just as much of his own personal money into the project.

     

    He's already put in money without even knowing for sure if this will fund.  Do you think all of his current staff are working for free?

     

    This is an investment into an idea.  If you dont think the risk vs reward works out for you personally, then dont pledge.  But I'm tired of people just needlessly hating on MJ and calling other people stupid for wanting to give him money to help develop the ideas he's presented.

  • naezgulnaezgul Homer Glen, ILPosts: 374Member
    Originally posted by Tablix
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

    [MJ] You guys want to hear something really nice? A compliment we got on Friday from Kevin Saunders, Project Lead for Torment. FYI, this is only part of what he said:

    "Especially for this stage in development, the battle technical demos for Camelot Unchained are astounding -- to achieve such fluid motion with so many unique characters onscreen bodes very well for what will be possible over the course of a couple years of work.

    But after watching update 16, it's the Depths that's has me most excited. It's truly inspiring from a design perspective. There's clearly a host of design (and technical) problems that need to be solved (with "who gets to be the boss?" as one you call out), but intuitively I sense it's all very achievable, and with results that will be spectacular. I have no doubts that over the course of development your team will be able to provide a unique and compelling experience to which the acronym MMORPG will do a disservice. "

     

    Coming from "competition" it's worth 20 times the comments from any of us backers or haters. it comes from someone in the industry too, so they know what they are talking about.

    This alone should remove doubts from a few people.

    [mod edit]  This WONT remove any doubts.  Again let me see a proof of concept or a working game demo of combat, or the game engine in general even a ALPHA model.   That will REMOVE doubts!!! not MORE words! 

    Umm, we have 2 alpha models and two tech demos. The alpha models are each about 12K tris (the limit Andrew has set), rigged, textured and animated with a simple walk cycle and attack cycle. Both models are being used in the tech demoss, SmackHammer (server + early networking code test) and our in-house engine.

    Viking: Here

    TDD:  Here

    Friday's in-house Build (new one goes up next week) here.

    We should also have another new model next week and two iterations of both the SH tech and our in-house engine.

    All you had to do was ask. :)

    Mark

     

    You want $2mil in backing for creating a couple of 3d models??  Seroiusly this sort of "evidence" is hardly worth investment from anyone but the gullible.  Yes you have a couple of staff in the background working on concept art and generally trying to look busy but I am not convinced you have anything more than a few story board ideas and a few people modelling atm.  If you plan to build an entire ENGINE then completely bug test AND release in 2 years your budget is not going to go very far once you start paying your staff.  Your timeline means you are going to need more than a dozen staff and in saleries alone your are going to be hard pushed to get under budget IF you succeed on your schedule.  How about you release some details of your budget and how you plan to spend it, some detailed timelines for progress and targets.  If you went to a bank for money they would demand all this and more so please give your potential investors some credit and give more details than pretty things to confuse the kids out of their pocket money.  You have tiers for over $1000 in investment into an IDEA, please show some REAL BUSINESS PLAN then I may consider donating as I wont be getting any profit share just some access rights at the end of the project.

     

     

    Hah, wow! I would almost bet very few if any companies on KS gives these type of numbers...

    You want to be shown something? What have other KS projects shown....bunch of flashy things that you really don't know if it makes it into final project. 

    You expect him to tell you ow much each of his staff is making?

    maybe they all signed in for 40-50k a year with a cut of he project pie

    12 staff members 3 years is 1.8 mmillion 

    how much does a server cost?

     

  • argoriusargorius Sandy, UTPosts: 17Member
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

    [MJ] You guys want to hear something really nice? A compliment we got on Friday from Kevin Saunders, Project Lead for Torment. FYI, this is only part of what he said:

    "Especially for this stage in development, the battle technical demos for Camelot Unchained are astounding -- to achieve such fluid motion with so many unique characters onscreen bodes very well for what will be possible over the course of a couple years of work.

    But after watching update 16, it's the Depths that's has me most excited. It's truly inspiring from a design perspective. There's clearly a host of design (and technical) problems that need to be solved (with "who gets to be the boss?" as one you call out), but intuitively I sense it's all very achievable, and with results that will be spectacular. I have no doubts that over the course of development your team will be able to provide a unique and compelling experience to which the acronym MMORPG will do a disservice. "

     

    Coming from "competition" it's worth 20 times the comments from any of us backers or haters. it comes from someone in the industry too, so they know what they are talking about.

    This alone should remove doubts from a few people.

    [mod edit]  This WONT remove any doubts it was avatars all standing around, with no effects or magic going on in the background.  Again let me see a proof of concept or a working game demo of combat, or the game engine in general even a ALPHA model.   That will REMOVE doubts!!! not MORE words! 

    You have seen 1000 individually loaded characters drawn on screen. They are all walking meaning - they are loading an active animation. Who cares if it is a combat animation or walking - they are being animated and doing something. Obviously terrain is limited - obviously there are no spell effects - you can definitely expect a FPS drop once spell effects are implemented but the demo handles everything extremely well and there is tons more room under hood to implement spell effects without having the engine explode.  There are other FPS increasing measures that they didn't implement yet on these demos (FODs).

     

    I am not sure what you want here - do you think CSE is holding back a carefully designed landscape and spell effects and race models but they choose not to show them yet...? It is fairly obvious that this is the beginning of a project - what you want doesn't exist yet, hence the kickstarter campaign. What they have shown in a short amount of time is impressive and not any less impressive than what other similar kickstarter campaigns have shown. You have to realize that at this stage - they are scrambling to produce things that show they can do this...while pretty landscapes and having a controlled character running around in the "world" looks pretty - a tech demo including 1000 characters is much more impressive. 

     

  • I really love the viking model. Not just the clothes and weaponry, but the art style of the game looks really cool. Very unique. Even the walking animation was pretty nice, especially for a prototype.

    I can't wait to see models for the other Realms.

    In fact I just made my first pledge for a kickstarter project. I picked $25 since I think that's a good deal for the digital copy and Beta 3 access, (I don't actually want to be in the earlier ones) yet not a huge deal if the game turns out not to be that great in the end. Looking forward to playing an MMO that isn't WoW reskinned in a few years.

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Umm, we have 2 alpha models and two tech demos. The alpha models are each about 12K tris (the limit Andrew has set), rigged, textured and animated with a simple walk cycle and attack cycle. Both models are being used in the tech demos, SmackHammer (server + early networking code test) and our in-house engine. These things can be found as per below.

    Viking: Here

    TDD:  Here

    Friday's in-house Build (new one goes up next week) here.

    We should also have another new model next week and two iterations of both the SH tech and our in-house engine.

    All you had to do was ask. :)

    Mark

     

    Mark, c'mon. You should know better than that. Toss those at us and calling it proof of game is like throwing this at us http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrtwESnTOwY and calling it WoD's proof of game.

  • TheJodaTheJoda chicago, ILPosts: 467Member
    Originally posted by Taldier
    Originally posted by TheJoda

    [mod edit]  This WONT remove any doubts it was avatars all standing around, with no effects or magic going on in the background.  Again let me see a proof of concept or a working game demo of combat, or the game engine in general even a ALPHA model.   That will REMOVE doubts!!! not MORE words! 

    Originally posted by Tablix

    You want $2mil in backing for creating a couple of 3d models??  Seroiusly this sort of "evidence" is hardly worth investment from anyone but the gullible.  Yes you have a couple of staff in the background working on concept art and generally trying to look busy but I am not convinced you have anything more than a few story board ideas and a few people modelling atm.  If you plan to build an entire ENGINE then completely bug test AND release in 2 years your budget is not going to go very far once you start paying your staff.  Your timeline means you are going to need more than a dozen staff and in saleries alone your are going to be hard pushed to get under budget IF you succeed on your schedule.  How about you release some details of your budget and how you plan to spend it, some detailed timelines for progress and targets.  If you went to a bank for money they would demand all this and more so please give your potential investors some credit and give more details than pretty things to confuse the kids out of their pocket money.  You have tiers for over $1000 in investment into an IDEA, please show some REAL BUSINESS PLAN then I may consider donating as I wont be getting any profit share just some access rights at the end of the project.

    Alpha wont be for over a year.  They arent at that stage.  They are at the start of development.  You know, that point where you can give your opinions and feedback and have them actually matter before everything is already settled?

     

    Do the people posting in this thread really think a well known industry figure is just going to run off with the money instead of making the game?  He's investing just as much of his own personal money into the project.

     

    He's already put in money without even knowing for sure if this will fund.  Do you think all of his current staff are working for free?

     

    This is an investment into an idea.  If you dont think the risk vs reward works out for you personally, then dont pledge.  But I'm tired of people just needlessly hating on MJ and calling other people stupid for wanting to give him money to help develop the ideas he's presented.

    .....I agree with you, pledge if you want too!  

    But there is another side that all of the backers arent taking into consideration.  All the post TELLING us to BACK this game or else, or every reason under the sun to back the game.  Some of us are just as tired about hearing all the reasons we should back it, then backers are hearing why we didnt back yet, after all its our money to do with it as we see fit.   

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • StilerStiler Athens, TNPosts: 599Member
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

    [MJ] You guys want to hear something really nice? A compliment we got on Friday from Kevin Saunders, Project Lead for Torment. FYI, this is only part of what he said:

    "Especially for this stage in development, the battle technical demos for Camelot Unchained are astounding -- to achieve such fluid motion with so many unique characters onscreen bodes very well for what will be possible over the course of a couple years of work.

    But after watching update 16, it's the Depths that's has me most excited. It's truly inspiring from a design perspective. There's clearly a host of design (and technical) problems that need to be solved (with "who gets to be the boss?" as one you call out), but intuitively I sense it's all very achievable, and with results that will be spectacular. I have no doubts that over the course of development your team will be able to provide a unique and compelling experience to which the acronym MMORPG will do a disservice. "

     

    Coming from "competition" it's worth 20 times the comments from any of us backers or haters. it comes from someone in the industry too, so they know what they are talking about.

    This alone should remove doubts from a few people.

    [mod edit]  This WONT remove any doubts it was avatars all standing around, with no effects or magic going on in the background.  Again let me see a proof of concept or a working game demo of combat, or the game engine in general even a ALPHA model.   That will REMOVE doubts!!! not MORE words! 

     

    Do some people like you not understand, the game isn't even in full production right now? They do not know if it will be funded or not, all they have is very early work concepts and tech demos and such.

    They have shown the early workings of their engine, the people on screen (even putting the early alpha models in the demo).

     

  • naezgulnaezgul Homer Glen, ILPosts: 374Member
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    Originally posted by Taldier
    Originally posted by TheJoda

    [mod edit]  This WONT remove any doubts it was avatars all standing around, with no effects or magic going on in the background.  Again let me see a proof of concept or a working game demo of combat, or the game engine in general even a ALPHA model.   That will REMOVE doubts!!! not MORE words! 

    Originally posted by Tablix

    You want $2mil in backing for creating a couple of 3d models??  Seroiusly this sort of "evidence" is hardly worth investment from anyone but the gullible.  Yes you have a couple of staff in the background working on concept art and generally trying to look busy but I am not convinced you have anything more than a few story board ideas and a few people modelling atm.  If you plan to build an entire ENGINE then completely bug test AND release in 2 years your budget is not going to go very far once you start paying your staff.  Your timeline means you are going to need more than a dozen staff and in saleries alone your are going to be hard pushed to get under budget IF you succeed on your schedule.  How about you release some details of your budget and how you plan to spend it, some detailed timelines for progress and targets.  If you went to a bank for money they would demand all this and more so please give your potential investors some credit and give more details than pretty things to confuse the kids out of their pocket money.  You have tiers for over $1000 in investment into an IDEA, please show some REAL BUSINESS PLAN then I may consider donating as I wont be getting any profit share just some access rights at the end of the project.

    Alpha wont be for over a year.  They arent at that stage.  They are at the start of development.  You know, that point where you can give your opinions and feedback and have them actually matter before everything is already settled?

     

    Do the people posting in this thread really think a well known industry figure is just going to run off with the money instead of making the game?  He's investing just as much of his own personal money into the project.

     

    He's already put in money without even knowing for sure if this will fund.  Do you think all of his current staff are working for free?

     

    This is an investment into an idea.  If you dont think the risk vs reward works out for you personally, then dont pledge.  But I'm tired of people just needlessly hating on MJ and calling other people stupid for wanting to give him money to help develop the ideas he's presented.

    .....I agree with you, pledge if you want too!  

    But there is another side that all of the backers arent taking into consideration.  All the post TELLING us to BACK this game or else, or every reason under the sun to back the game.  Some of us are just as tired about hearing all the reasons we should back it, then backers are hearing why we didnt back yet, or what we want to see before we back this project. 

    Why keep coming back to forum or reading posts if you know what they are about?

    Either you just want to fire people up or you are hoping to get talked into pledging.

     

  • supergfunksupergfunk Laurinburg, NCPosts: 95Member
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    Originally posted by Taldier
    Originally posted by TheJoda

    [mod edit]  This WONT remove any doubts it was avatars all standing around, with no effects or magic going on in the background.  Again let me see a proof of concept or a working game demo of combat, or the game engine in general even a ALPHA model.   That will REMOVE doubts!!! not MORE words! 

    Originally posted by Tablix

    You want $2mil in backing for creating a couple of 3d models??  Seroiusly this sort of "evidence" is hardly worth investment from anyone but the gullible.  Yes you have a couple of staff in the background working on concept art and generally trying to look busy but I am not convinced you have anything more than a few story board ideas and a few people modelling atm.  If you plan to build an entire ENGINE then completely bug test AND release in 2 years your budget is not going to go very far once you start paying your staff.  Your timeline means you are going to need more than a dozen staff and in saleries alone your are going to be hard pushed to get under budget IF you succeed on your schedule.  How about you release some details of your budget and how you plan to spend it, some detailed timelines for progress and targets.  If you went to a bank for money they would demand all this and more so please give your potential investors some credit and give more details than pretty things to confuse the kids out of their pocket money.  You have tiers for over $1000 in investment into an IDEA, please show some REAL BUSINESS PLAN then I may consider donating as I wont be getting any profit share just some access rights at the end of the project.

    Alpha wont be for over a year.  They arent at that stage.  They are at the start of development.  You know, that point where you can give your opinions and feedback and have them actually matter before everything is already settled?

     

    Do the people posting in this thread really think a well known industry figure is just going to run off with the money instead of making the game?  He's investing just as much of his own personal money into the project.

     

    He's already put in money without even knowing for sure if this will fund.  Do you think all of his current staff are working for free?

     

    This is an investment into an idea.  If you dont think the risk vs reward works out for you personally, then dont pledge.  But I'm tired of people just needlessly hating on MJ and calling other people stupid for wanting to give him money to help develop the ideas he's presented.

    .....I agree with you, pledge if you want too!  

    But there is another side that all of the backers arent taking into consideration.  All the post TELLING us to BACK this game or else, or every reason under the sun to back the game.  Some of us are just as tired about hearing all the reasons we should back it, then backers are hearing why we didnt back yet, after all its our money to do with it as we see fit.   

    LoL, just look away!

    image

  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    Originally posted by Taldier
    Originally posted by TheJoda

    [mod edit]  This WONT remove any doubts it was avatars all standing around, with no effects or magic going on in the background.  Again let me see a proof of concept or a working game demo of combat, or the game engine in general even a ALPHA model.   That will REMOVE doubts!!! not MORE words! 

    Originally posted by Tablix

    You want $2mil in backing for creating a couple of 3d models??  Seroiusly this sort of "evidence" is hardly worth investment from anyone but the gullible.  Yes you have a couple of staff in the background working on concept art and generally trying to look busy but I am not convinced you have anything more than a few story board ideas and a few people modelling atm.  If you plan to build an entire ENGINE then completely bug test AND release in 2 years your budget is not going to go very far once you start paying your staff.  Your timeline means you are going to need more than a dozen staff and in saleries alone your are going to be hard pushed to get under budget IF you succeed on your schedule.  How about you release some details of your budget and how you plan to spend it, some detailed timelines for progress and targets.  If you went to a bank for money they would demand all this and more so please give your potential investors some credit and give more details than pretty things to confuse the kids out of their pocket money.  You have tiers for over $1000 in investment into an IDEA, please show some REAL BUSINESS PLAN then I may consider donating as I wont be getting any profit share just some access rights at the end of the project.

    Alpha wont be for over a year.  They arent at that stage.  They are at the start of development.  You know, that point where you can give your opinions and feedback and have them actually matter before everything is already settled?

     

    Do the people posting in this thread really think a well known industry figure is just going to run off with the money instead of making the game?  He's investing just as much of his own personal money into the project.

     

    He's already put in money without even knowing for sure if this will fund.  Do you think all of his current staff are working for free?

     

    This is an investment into an idea.  If you dont think the risk vs reward works out for you personally, then dont pledge.  But I'm tired of people just needlessly hating on MJ and calling other people stupid for wanting to give him money to help develop the ideas he's presented.

    .....I agree with you, pledge if you want too!  

    But there is another side that all of the backers arent taking into consideration.  All the post TELLING us to BACK this game or else, or every reason under the sun to back the game.  Some of us are just as tired about hearing all the reasons we should back it, then backers are hearing why we didnt back yet, after all its our money to do with it as we see fit.   

    Then why are you reading this subforum?  If you are still on the fence, follow the updates on the kickstarter page for more information.  If you just dont care at all, ignore it altogether.

     

    What is this obsession about going somewhere that you know people excited about a game will be talking about things just so that you can say "Im not excited like you, just thought you needed to know that"

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 467Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

    [MJ] You guys want to hear something really nice? A compliment we got on Friday from Kevin Saunders, Project Lead for Torment. FYI, this is only part of what he said:

    "Especially for this stage in development, the battle technical demos for Camelot Unchained are astounding -- to achieve such fluid motion with so many unique characters onscreen bodes very well for what will be possible over the course of a couple years of work.

    But after watching update 16, it's the Depths that's has me most excited. It's truly inspiring from a design perspective. There's clearly a host of design (and technical) problems that need to be solved (with "who gets to be the boss?" as one you call out), but intuitively I sense it's all very achievable, and with results that will be spectacular. I have no doubts that over the course of development your team will be able to provide a unique and compelling experience to which the acronym MMORPG will do a disservice. "

     

    Coming from "competition" it's worth 20 times the comments from any of us backers or haters. it comes from someone in the industry too, so they know what they are talking about.

    This alone should remove doubts from a few people.

    [mod edit]  This WONT remove any doubts.  Again let me see a proof of concept or a working game demo of combat, or the game engine in general even a ALPHA model.   That will REMOVE doubts!!! not MORE words! 

    Umm, we have 2 alpha models and two tech demos:

    Viking: Here

    TDD:  Here

    Friday's in-house Build (new one goes up next week) here.

    All you had to do was ask. :)

    Mark

    ....Now this was/ is a great start to showing what the engine and your take on the models will be for sure, I applaud you for getting these out to the public! 

     I feel these videos showing the races and their differences, and how they incorporate their kills or enviroments into their armor and weapons are a great concept.  I feel more of these videos will bring you in new backers and dispell some of the reasons of non-backers like myself might feel we have at the moment.

    But I feel we need to see more, at least I do as a consumer.  For example, again this is MY OPINION if I saw one of each race, and a working game demo of the combat of your different classes, or some of your landscapes, castles, skies and water effects  you would have my money for sure.....AGAIN thats MY OPINION, I understand not all will agree or disagree.  

     

    I do wish you the best Mark!

    Thanks, I appreciate that! In terms of your opinion, you and anyone else is certainly welcome to back, don't back, love, hate, etc. CU and/or myself. I actually happen to agree with you that mere words aren't enough for me either. That's why I and the whole studio have been working on the models, design, engine, etc. to date. While what you ask for is more than most (not all) Kickstarted projects have, I and CSE will have more to present over the next two weeks. This is next week's plan:

    1) Addition of another race (not the Arthurians).

    2) Addition of a in-house particle system added to our game engine.

    3) Addition of some landscape features to our game engine.

    4) Additional improvements to SmackHammer and friends and family access to it.

    By the end of the KS we hope to integrate the network and server code from SH into our main engine and allow additional F&F testing with a goal of at least 100 people in either the engine or SH. If we can accomplish this it would exceed what any other MMO-based Kickstarter has shown while in the pre-production phase. It would also exceed most, but not all, of the game-based KS (notable exceptions being KS raises to finish a game).

    I'm not trying to persuade you or anybody else to back CU based on this. My point is simply this that CU is more than just a few ideas or concept art. It is not a finished game and it is the same state that a lot of game-based KS were when they launched. We are also ahead of the pack in certain areas as well.

    Back/no-back/baby got back/etc. is your and any other consumer's choice and I totally respect that. What I believed is owed in return on this forum is simply a recognition that CU is not merely ideas but a project that is in pre-production and it progresses on a daily basis as our updates will continue to show. We are in pre-production as that term is widely accepted in the industry as we continue to iterate on the game's design, tech proof of concept (high FPS rendering engine) and art style for CU. Nothing more but most assuredly, nothing less.

    I thank you for your posts and willingness to look at the links and then offer your opinion as you did.

    Mark

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC
    Originally posted by Mkilbride

    Why does EVERYONE have their panties in a twist over this? It was just showing friendly chats between two developers, it was neat and interesting.

     

    Yet, here @ MMORPG.com, nothing can be posted without some kind of flame war starting.

    yup totally right. i blocked 2 people just from this thread alone.

    ....how mature, someone dont agree with YOUR opinion so you block them. 

    The majority of "differing opinions" are either from uninformed people spouting nonsense, or trolls. Neither of which deserve to be heard. People who don't understand what Kickstarter is or how it works should not be discussing Kickstarter projects or what can be expected before development even starts on a game.

  • TheJodaTheJoda chicago, ILPosts: 467Member
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    Originally posted by Taldier
    Originally posted by TheJoda

    [mod edit]  This WONT remove any doubts it was avatars all standing around, with no effects or magic going on in the background.  Again let me see a proof of concept or a working game demo of combat, or the game engine in general even a ALPHA model.   That will REMOVE doubts!!! not MORE words! 

    Originally posted by Tablix

    You want $2mil in backing for creating a couple of 3d models??  Seroiusly this sort of "evidence" is hardly worth investment from anyone but the gullible.  Yes you have a couple of staff in the background working on concept art and generally trying to look busy but I am not convinced you have anything more than a few story board ideas and a few people modelling atm.  If you plan to build an entire ENGINE then completely bug test AND release in 2 years your budget is not going to go very far once you start paying your staff.  Your timeline means you are going to need more than a dozen staff and in saleries alone your are going to be hard pushed to get under budget IF you succeed on your schedule.  How about you release some details of your budget and how you plan to spend it, some detailed timelines for progress and targets.  If you went to a bank for money they would demand all this and more so please give your potential investors some credit and give more details than pretty things to confuse the kids out of their pocket money.  You have tiers for over $1000 in investment into an IDEA, please show some REAL BUSINESS PLAN then I may consider donating as I wont be getting any profit share just some access rights at the end of the project.

    Alpha wont be for over a year.  They arent at that stage.  They are at the start of development.  You know, that point where you can give your opinions and feedback and have them actually matter before everything is already settled?

     

    Do the people posting in this thread really think a well known industry figure is just going to run off with the money instead of making the game?  He's investing just as much of his own personal money into the project.

     

    He's already put in money without even knowing for sure if this will fund.  Do you think all of his current staff are working for free?

     

    This is an investment into an idea.  If you dont think the risk vs reward works out for you personally, then dont pledge.  But I'm tired of people just needlessly hating on MJ and calling other people stupid for wanting to give him money to help develop the ideas he's presented.

    .....I agree with you, pledge if you want too!  

    But there is another side that all of the backers arent taking into consideration.  All the post TELLING us to BACK this game or else, or every reason under the sun to back the game.  Some of us are just as tired about hearing all the reasons we should back it, then backers are hearing why we didnt back yet, or what we want to see before we back this project. 

    Why keep coming back to forum or reading posts if you know what they are about?

    Either you just want to fire people up or you are hoping to get talked into pledging.

     

    ....why do you? I see you tossing in your 2cents all over the place.

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • LaeeshLaeesh Münster, ARPosts: 90Member
    kind words =) MJ and CSE in common deserve it.

    image
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