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Originally posted by Yalexy Sorry, but I can't stop laughing at those, who think that it's too damn hard and complicated to organize 40 people for a raid. We're organizing multilingual 500 or even 1000-player raids over different timezomes in EvE Online for several years now, and it's no problem at all. The only people having problems with these big numbers are the ones that are simply not dedicated enough or having pronlems with ADHD. A normal person shouldn't have any troubles to listen to the raidlead and follow orders for some two hours without running to the bathroom or kitchen every 10 minutes. You know the time when the raid is supposed to start, so go pee and have dinner before the raid starts. Voicechat discipline isn't that hard either. Simply mute your f*n microphone if you can't keep your mouth shut. Push-to-talk is mandatory aswell, as noone wants to hear you sneezing or talking to your GF etc. Seriously, if you have troubles with a 40-player raid, then the problem is with you, not with the size of the raid.
In My experience the problem was constantly fielding a raid force with just XX. Having the ability to bring every person out while logistically very difficult is not the same as have an entire guild based around HC raiding. It has been a very long time since I Raided in EQ2 but when the raid cap is 24 and the guild is 27-28 people raiding 20+ hours a week you come across other issues.
Comparing EVE to a raiding game is just not accurate and diminishes both games logistical hurdles. That being sad I believe that EVE meta-end game is a hell of a lot better than any raid system despite how many people you add.
I think it could work if they make getting groups together easier.
a word of caution.. If you make the gear the best available, then it could ruin the game. If the stat difference was maybe 7% total with all slots upgraded, then it could work, but the super inflation of über ness ruins balance for he rest of the game... That's why people stack pve gear in pvp. Keep the % close to five percent total so that there is some incentive and it is the top pve gear but not to a ridiculous extent.
ps. Thought I heard something about them scaling raids between 20 and 40 so it didn't have to be exact? Anyone else hear that or something else.
Originally posted by Vorthanion There has yet to be a game with raiding that doesn't shaft other play styles. I'll believe it when I see it, till then, they're no different than every other hardcore loving developer.
Agreed. Time will tell, but I'm super skeptical.
with having nearly 300 votes .... and 48% being up for 40man raids i guess we can come to the conclusion that at least on MMORPG.com there is quiet abit of interest in the 40man scene
thanks for all the feedback and interesting reads so far
Wait...the argument is that 40 minuet raids are long?
I saw this and though "oh wow they significantly shortend raids in this game"
I mean most raids...and i mean real raids, you need to break up over a few days to clear...unless your in a crazy hardcore guild that will clear a raid in 12 hours at once.
40min raids? Sure, why not...its not going to cause me to have to cancel my morning the next day due to being up all night...and those types of raids...well they just are not as fun these days as they use to be.
I do like the idea of scaling based on members, though i know that someone will find the easy sweet spot and everyone will end up raiding with the exact memeber count and composition that was discoverd to be the easiest.
BTW i like hard raids. Easy raids are not even worth the time imo..
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Originally posted by Leiloni Edit: NEVERMIND. Apparently it really is massive old school PvE Raids a la WoW. Heck no. http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php
The last point on this topic, is to not assume that raids will be "the endgame" as is the case in many MMOs. It is simply "an endgame." For players who don't love this sort of content, there will be many other avenues and heaps of other Elder game content that will not require a player to set a foot inside a 20- or 40-man instance. But I'm a raider at heart, so I'm really looking forward to gifting you all with the most enjoyable wipes I can manage!
Best quote And I say ... bring it on!!!
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus I want raids that addapt difficulty based on the numbers of players... Have 40 men, raid with 40, have only 12 raid with 12, have 98, raid with 98... Scaling difficulty is the future... how to differentiate, well offer a raid in 5 tastes like easy, medium , hard, extreme hard and nightmare... Limmiting content based on player numbers is old time... On top of that bring back open world bosses and raids like we remember from EQ, the more differentation in endgame, the better for everyone.
This is one thing I like and hate about Defiance. Monsters scale depending on how many people are in the area. If there's 100 people, mobs become extremely hard to kill...however if you have a bunch of people doing nothing, it makes it near impossible to do anything lol.
Originally posted by IceAge Originally posted by Leiloni Edit: NEVERMIND. Apparently it really is massive old school PvE Raids a la WoW. Heck no. http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php
ROFL love that quote.
I never really raided, could not really stand the guild drama to be honest.. But this will be my first MMO were I just put up with it, I really want to test myself in some raids!
------------------------------You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
ill do any time of pve content that requires many people. Im not really fond of battles that should be epic and all we have is a small group of 10 people smacking 1 boss.
i would definitely de interested in a 40+ men raid if the battle is actually different from what we have been seeing for years. (alywas a big dungeon separated by stages with 1 boss at the end of each stage).
Why not have a big raid (40+ men) with a few boss battles at the same time? you encounter a boss and at some point he is losing and call the other bosses to its aid (not just random crappy adds) that way you need more people, more strategy since each boss has different combat tactics, and taht way avoid having one boss with bagillion health points making it a boring, long, teddious fight. And make each encounter as varied as possible so it doesnt feel like grinding the same runs over and over.
I would be completely fine with this as long as these "raids" didnt drop the best loot. As long as the best Loot can be aquired from many different angles then I am fine with raiding.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
It is not the time length per se thaty worries me becuase msot games have longerRaids than that,example FFXI Pandemonium Warden opriginally coiuld take 2 days to beat.
What worries me is WHO is making the claim of 40 minutes?If you can predict the time that clsoe,it tells me there is no versatility in the Raid fight.
Is this 40 minutes based on the developer knowing what is the EXACT best setup and if the battle is executed 100% perfect?
personally i am not a fan of Raids ,period,i prefer all content to be kept reasonable in small groups of 3-6 players.
Raids are actually imo a joke in EVERY game,they involve mechancs to offset more dps and usually involve the Boss being immune to all useful abilities.Taht is why is works MUCH better in a small group because yo uwill never have a massive amount of zerg dps,so it allows for you and the Boss AI to be active and reactive.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The devil is in the details and we will have to wait and see until probably release to see how the final system plays out. It's safe to assume that things will change a lot in beta once people start pounding on this content.
I do have a few concerns and most of them are touched on in the What is Wildstar: Raids blog if just high level. At least it seems like they understand the issues.
1. Gear progressioin. It's all fine and dandy to say your going to options for solo and small group endgame but if you than turn around and gate the best gear in raids you just made all the content worthless. If you raid there is nothing in the solo and small group content worth doing because the gear is junk. I don't know if the answer is to specalize gear by content (buffs and procs that work best at the content it's earned in), spread best in class gear accross content by slot or something else but it's a huge issue with raid focused games IMO.
2. The need for a specific group makeup. I can't tell you the number of times I have see our EQ2 raid end up doing lower tier content because we didn't have the right mix of classes on. You can hobble though if you have the next tier gear on but you can't really push the boundries without a very specific makeup. I appreciate the flexability being in a less hard core raiding guild offers me when I'm taveling for work but It's fustrating that your options as a guild is either accept doing lower level content some of the times or try and kick anyone who can't be there most of the time. The other end of this however is trivalize raids to the point where any random group of people can beat them and than no one cares about them.
3. Repeatative raiding. Yea the first time you beat a boss is fun. The 50th time however is just old. Hopefully they can make the idea of dyanmic content work but I am doubtfull they will be able to add enough difference and keep the encounter within the difficultly range they are looking for.
Originally posted by Wizardry It is not the time length per se thaty worries me becuase msot games have longerRaids than that,example FFXI Pandemonium Warden opriginally coiuld take 2 days to beat. What worries me is WHO is making the claim of 40 minutes?If you can predict the time that clsoe,it tells me there is no versatility in the Raid fight. Is this 40 minutes based on the developer knowing what is the EXACT best setup and if the battle is executed 100% perfect? personally i am not a fan of Raids ,period,i prefer all content to be kept reasonable in small groups of 3-6 players. Raids are actually imo a joke in EVERY game,they involve mechancs to offset more dps and usually involve the Boss being immune to all useful abilities.Taht is why is works MUCH better in a small group because yo uwill never have a massive amount of zerg dps,so it allows for you and the Boss AI to be active and reactive.
40 man raids not 40 minute raids
Depends on what is understood by a raid... if it's some instanced 40 man encounter, then hell no... if it's a world dungeon where you need a raid sized group to get through it, then yeah why not.
Originally posted by Docmandu Depends on what is understood by a raid... if it's some instanced 40 man encounter, then hell no... if it's a world dungeon where you need a raid sized group to get through it, then yeah why not.
my question to you is what the hell is the difference if its instanced or a open world dungeon? you still need to gather 40 people regardless.
the only difference is, if it were instanced, no one gets fucked cause they didn't get their raid together in time or didnt get a chance to join the raid that formed already and is fighting it.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
IMO: 40m raid is just mass lag and tons of slackers.
but may be others like it
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
Raids should be moving forward and evolving from some static number requirement. They should scale based on members present. I'm fine with a minimum number required, since anything below 10 i don't consider a raid, but there shouldn't be a max number.
Nothing kills guilds more than not having enough online to raid on a particular night or having people sit out. Scaling raids would alleviate many issues associated with raiding.
I understand the technical difficulties this would bring about, but it's time for someone to step up and make it happen.