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GW2's SPvP vs. WoW's BG's

fat_taddlerfat_taddler Wanaque, NJPosts: 286Member

I'll admit it, I enjoy quick serve, instanced PvP in MMO's.   The quick matches and variety of objectives have kept me entertained in WoW for many years.

So I decided to invest some time into GW2's SPvP system over the weekend.  I had briefly tried it during launch but it didn't really do it for me.

I have to say, I'm enjoying playing my Necro in SPVP and I like the smaller environments which force players to engage each other but it seems like there is absolutely no variety in objectives.  

I played about 35 matches over the weekend across most maps but every one was pretty much the same, conquest with three capture points.  

I thought there had to be something I was missing so I went to GW2's wiki site to investigate and it turns out that every single SPVP map has three capture points with some varied secondary mechanics.   Out of all the matches I was in, I never saw anyone do any secondary mechanics so I'm guessing that they don't help much in terms of points. 

All of that being said, are there plans to expand the SPVP component of GW2 or was this simply a bit of side progression thrown in to help round out the offering?

In my opinion, WoW seems to be way ahead with their BG's in terms of the variety of gameplay and objectives. 

 

 

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Comments

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Uncommon
  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    ye im guessing spvp are lower in the priorities in the short term. (wvw ganeplay/performance and improving lore/depth of pve gameplay has to be above) GW1 had Fort Aspenwood as a different type of BG (my favourite)  that im sure Anet will implement at some point.

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  • fat_taddlerfat_taddler Wanaque, NJPosts: 286Member
    Thanks for replies and info.  It's definitely reassuring to see that ANet has some significant plans to improve SPVP in the near future. 
  • KalestonKaleston TrinecPosts: 173Member

    sPvP maps are smaller than WoW BG. They are also faster and less people in them.

    It is true, that there is always one basic principle: conquer 3 points, but there is also another different mechanic in every map that must not be ignored or you can loose even if you win conquest battle. Especially when 2 teams of similar strength meet, those optional objectives can make very big difference.

    Especially the newest map is much more about optional objective than conquer points game.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fat_taddler

    I'll admit it, I enjoy quick serve, instanced PvP in MMO's.   The quick matches and variety of objectives have kept me entertained in WoW for many years.

    **snip**

    All of that being said, are there plans to expand the SPVP component of GW2 or was this simply a bit of side progression thrown in to help round out the offering?

    In my opinion, WoW seems to be way ahead with their BG's in terms of the variety of gameplay and objectives. 

    I'm sure they do plan on expanding sPvP, they've stated as much.

    The primary reason all maps have the same general objectives (according to Anet) was to make it easier as an E-sport. Since they've basically pissed away their shot at gw2 being an e-sport game (for now at least), I'm hoping they'll start adding more variety to sPvP.

    At the very least I think they're adding GvG and customizeable sPvP servers. That'll be a good start. The game has a lot of potential as far as PvP goes, and it's some of the most fun PvP I've had in a while (not counting certain shooters / 3PS games). However it's painfully obvious to most fans of the game that most of their efforts have been directed at PvE. There's been very little in the way of PvP updates since launch. Fixing culling was a pretty nice fix, that's basically all that's been done. Aside from that they added a 2 new maps, which play mostly identical to the others, and removed orbs from WvW.

    I'm really hoping that later this year we'll see more of an effort where PvP is concerned. Especially since they let slip that they haven't even started working on an expansion.

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,925Member Uncommon

    Honestly to chime in, I find a lot of the SPvP maps quite lack luster. There are a good good ones mind you, but over-all its kind of 'meh'. That being said, the few that stand out as being good actually do a great job if your going to play more on a 'competative' side, for me they trump WoW's BG in terms of making it more 'team' and 'skill' based of sorts for being smaller groups but also having objectives that aren't too detracting from the over-all goal of the match. 

     

    I do think (as its been mentioned before) they are working on it, granted its something ANY company usually does when something doesn't work, but none the less considering they do want PVP pushed I can see them trying to fix it more. As of right now their desire to be an Esport has failed pretty well, which I feel has in part to do not only with the maps and pvp system in play, but generally the combat itself not able to fit on that skill/competative edge enough to make it stick out. For them to really make things competative, they just need to do a lot more to allow for skill and tactics to triumph greater in the matches. 

     

    Its a lot of work, but if your really into the game, considering they did try and push a pvp element into the game, your best bet is to just keep watch since if they really want it to work how they originally intended it to, they will invest the time and money to do so.

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member
    I like what they have now and it's cool they are only improving the game to the best of their ability.

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    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,012Member Uncommon

    SPvP has many problems.  The first one is accessibility.  We cannot join it unless we're in the Mists zone, and once there, we need to run up to an NPC to access the browser.  This is how it was the last time i tried it, so if it's changed, let me know.

    The second problem is the lack of gametype varieties, as fat_taddler mentioned.  A-Net's decision to implement capture-and-hold only was a terrible mistake.  The fans expressed this pre-launch, but they still wanted to keep to their "vision", even if it was a bad one.

    The third problem was having paid tournaments so early.  It just segregated people when it didn't have to.

    The fourth, is the randomized loot from SPvP.  Random PvP gear was a bad idea.  People want to feel progression with obtaining gear and items, for the character they are playing, and not waste time on a gamble at obtaining gear for a class they will never play.

    And many more minor issues, such as: team colors (which can now be turned off), annoying announcer, and rank progression.

  • DiemosDiemos Portsmouth, VAPosts: 129Member
    Tourney SPvP is a ton of fun. The secondary mechanics involved on each map can be game changers. The gameplay is very skill based and is far better than WoWs BGs/Arenas

    image

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  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Play tourneys you will see how much secondary mechanics play a role.

    image


    image

  • FaelsunFaelsun Brandon, MSPosts: 492Member
    Gw2 pvp is like playing soccer inside of a 4 foot square box. 
  • VorchVorch Somewhere, FLPosts: 800Member

    PvE has been getting the bulk of love since release.

    WvW just got some MUCH needed attention and I'm loving it.

    sPvP really...REALLY needs some attention. I like that they add new maps but we...need...more...MODES.

     

    Seriously. Leaderboards are just a start, but I don't see sPvP kicking off with out 2 or 3 additional modes and some kick-ass emotes/skins/titles to go along with it.

    It has the potential, but not enough love :(

    "As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  • JonnyBigBossJonnyBigBoss Murrieta, CAPosts: 699Member
    Originally posted by Nadia

    ANET is still striving to improve sPVP

    http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=32028

    Too late. Those of us interested in sPvP are long gone.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Not really a fan of instanced pvp. But for what its worth I found gw2s more fun than wows. Gw1 did it best though.

    Shame WvW was such a massive disappointment, might have stuck with gw2 longer.
  • MikeJezZMikeJezZ HillerødPosts: 1,197Member Uncommon

    It is decent.

     

    Game is pretty unbalanced. Thieves can one shot Guardians at ease. Not because of better gear because all gear is equal. No because of unbalance.

     

    The reason to play disappears pretty fast. I am not into heavy gear grind. But I do wish there were some sort of progression in GW2.

     

    Also I am not a big fan of that your weapon decides which skills you had.

     

    I like the look of a staff on a caster. Staff sucks close up and youre forced to switch to crappy one hand garbage looks.

     

    Same as Guardians. I love the look of a greatsword, but I hate the spells. Sure I could switch to mace. But I hate the look of maces.

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  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Would of preferred if Anet not included sPvP in GW2 since I consider instanced PvP a detriment to world PvP.  But I suppose seeing as there really is no incentive either way then theres nothing to lose.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

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  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,549Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Faelsun
    Gw2 pvp is like playing soccer inside of a 4 foot square box. 

    WvW is a pretty huge box... if you need space, that's the PvP for you. GW2 gives the choice.

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  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,012Member Uncommon

    SPvP needs a lot of improvements, but it's still fun once in awhile when you need a break from pve or WvW.

    WoW's pvp was pretty substandard when it launched too.  Granted though, it did have more variety of gametypes.

    A-net keeps claiming they want SPvP to be a serious esport, but i just don't see it happening anytime soon.  They failed with paid tournaments which i always thought was a terrible idea.  They really need to get rid of that PvP browser too, and let people queue up in the open-world.  It's just unnecessary to have to go to the Mists everytime.

     

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,782Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JonnyBigBoss
    Originally posted by Nadia

    ANET is still striving to improve sPVP

    http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=32028

    Too late. Those of us interested in sPvP are long gone.

    Those of who? The folks that are playing aren't long gone or this thread would never have been created.

    sPvP needs attention just like WoWs Vanilla Alterac Valley did in it's start. GW2 is still a new game evolving with each patch, and every patch has made it a better game than it was before imho.

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  • MagnetiaMagnetia SydneyPosts: 1,029Member Uncommon

    The old GW1 team death match worked well. I understand there's the whole downed thing but it would be nice to have a little variety. 

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    spvp has great build variety but the objectives favor speed and survival builds and can limit some of the slower builds. Without different objectives the metagame gets a bit stagnant until patches hit and even then it's skill balancing.

    4 teams of 6 with king of the hill? hell yeah

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  • UstnyUstny Illinois, ILPosts: 4Member

    Every event that shows up in or near my path is a moment that inspires a silent but fervent hope from me that there are other players around. Diving into a massive melee is fun; finding myself all alone, with a half-dozen waves of enemies bearing down on me, is not. And yet becoming overwhelmed at an event isn't the end of the world, even it if it is briefly the end a character's life. (Death, fortunately, is but a fleeting and easily remedied condition.) Zones are set up in a state of perpetual warfare: if players cannot defend a location, well then they can help retake it later. After pirates managed to blow up one bridge, a new wave of players came by, helped resurrect me and the other player that had been standing on the bridge when it blew, and then we all worked together to defend the workers repairing it. of course i like gw2 pvp.

  • FaelsunFaelsun Brandon, MSPosts: 492Member
    I certainly wont say WOW had the best or most balanced pvp system out there, but franky neither does GW2 if I am just comparing Bgs vs Spvp I have to give it to WOW hands down. GW2 maps are not only small the spam fest they call a combat system shrinks the map even more.
  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon

    SPvP (structured PvP) is(was?) actually pretty competitive if you do the tournaments.  Thats when you get players that are using the secondary objectives and time it to the second.  Sadly, SPVP's competitive scene has been bleeding players over the last year due to not really much going on.  Maybe its picking up again but the last time I checked (1-2 months ago) there really wasn't much incentive for really competitive teams to stick around.  They knew it and would make it known on the forums every week.

    Hot Join, while still SPvP, is just one big clusterfuck.  8v8 format was overkill.  Nobody gives a fuck because you gain the most glory (which is like pvp experience) from getting kills compared to taking/defending objectives.  Also, no penalty for people that leave (so lame) and also, if the teams are unbalanced, you may be force to join the other team, right before the match ends resulting in a loss of glory you could have gained.

    WoW's BGs suffer similar problems but aren't NEARLY as bad.  Infact, in Alterac Valley, I know that taking towers and objectives was the fastest way to get the highest honor.  Strangely, thats not the case for every map (it really does vary from map to map which just shows how old the game is).  Blizzard allows people to report afk players.  Blizzard penalizes people that quit a BG.

    Now comparing Tournaments to Rated BGs is tough because Tournaments are the ultimate competitive form in GW2 where as in WoW, its actually 3v3 arena.  Rated BGs are great and the top teams are very skilled, but the most skilled pvpers flock to and stick with arena.

     

  • WarjinWarjin Harrisburg, PAPosts: 1,215Member Uncommon

    Why is this post even still going? Gw2's pvp blows WoW pvp out the water by like a mile, WoW's pvp is and has been a joke, you can not have good pvp in a mmo when the pvp is balanced around rock, paper, Gw2 balances around class vs class meaning all classes can do well vs another making team balance better, WoW's is all about who has the most CC and healers, WoW is a pve game, pvp in WoW is a after thought anyone who say different is a joke.

    To put in in another way, a 3k rated WoW player would get stomped in Gw2's pvp by a average Gw2  player.

    Also Gw2's BG layouts are balanced unlike WoW, also no faction has the upper edge in Gw2 because all sides can play all races, WoW is Horde favored overall and human favored due to every man for himself, WoW got kick out of MLG because of how much it's a joke to any real competives pvper, Gw2 on the otherhand can with ease become a vaild esport no problem, just needs a few tweaks.

    You can not, I repeat "CAN NOT" have competive pvp when crowd control last more then a few seconds and only a 2 min CC break, lol, Gw2 on the ontherhand gives all classes fast CC breaks and also low CC timers, this gives players time to react, making CC spam meaningless in Gw2, WoW it's all about who has the fastest ping time to get off there CC first and who has the most healing lol.

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,665Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Warjin

    Why is this post even still going?

    Because not everyone is as biased as you :D

    Gw2's pvp blows WoW pvp out the water by like a mile, WoW's pvp is and has been a joke, you can not have good pvp in a mmo when the pvp is balanced around rock, paper, Gw2 balances around class vs class meaning all classes can do well vs another making team balance better, WoW's is all about who has the most CC and healers, WoW is a pve game, pvp in WoW is a after thought anyone who say different is a joke.

    GW2's pvp is a joke too. It's a spamfest with no resource management or any kind of management for that matter. GW2 is also a PvE game with sPvP as an afterthought. There are few people playing sPvP in gw2 compared to pve and wvwvw and the content patches are mostly pve focused.

    To put in in another way, a 3k rated WoW player would get stomped in Gw2's pvp by a average Gw2  player.

    To put it in yet another way, a top GW2 player will get stomped in WoW's arenas by average players. Do you know how silly this sentence sounds? You can't "transfer" skill from one game to another like this. 

    Also Gw2's BG layouts are balanced unlike WoW,

    Because they are all the same. All maps are super small, claustrophobic and have the same objectives.

    also no faction has the upper edge in Gw2 because all sides can play all races, WoW is Horde favored overall and human favored due to every man for himself,

    What? Horde favoured? This is very server specific. When I was playing In my battlegroup Alliance destroyed the Horde. I never actually played Human. But then again that might have to do that my class could only be a night elf :D Anyways don't think humans were that OP or anything. Race was never a big factor in WoW.

    WoW got kick out of MLG because of how much it's a joke to any real competives pvper, Gw2 on the otherhand can with ease become a vaild esport no problem, just needs a few tweaks.

    WoW was in MLG? I didn't know that but that is IMPRESSIVE! I doubt GW2 will ever become an esport let alone be part of MLG. I don't consider WoW an esport either.  I mean how do you even see GW2 being an esport when you have games like League of Legends and Starcraft 2. I don't know how GW2 compares to LoL but I know that the game is a child's play compared to Starcraft 2. GW2 takes almost 0 skill to navigate and control is easy. In SC2 everything requires a lot of skill. That's what an esport is all about. So no, GW2 and WoW aren't and won't become esports in my opinion.

    You can not, I repeat "CAN NOT" have competive pvp when crowd control last more then a few seconds and only a 2 min CC break, lol, Gw2 on the ontherhand gives all classes fast CC breaks and also low CC timers, this gives players time to react, making CC spam meaningless in Gw2, WoW it's all about who has the fastest ping time to get off there CC first and who has the most healing lol.

    Yeaaah right. GW2 is a spamfest all right. Long cooldowns are there for a reason. So that you can actually manage them. In GW2 you just pop them as soon as they are off cooldown. I personally think that neither game takes a lot of skill to play.

     

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