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Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Aww, I thought we were just starting to get along. Seriously though, here is my thinking:
>>> What people like Mark Jacobs is missing is the fact the free to play opens up a game world to a bigger market share, and it is not about making 10 dollars a month, but 1 dollar a minute.
Far from it. I know this and totally respect the games that can pull this off well. However, it's not the game I want to make. I don't want to deal with a large number of free players in an RvR-based game. I absolutely recognize how successful some, not all, FTP comversions and games have been. Why is it wrong for me to want to make a smaller game and use KS to help guage interest if it is okay for FTP players to have their own game(s)?
>>>>Turbine is doing extremely well in that regard, SOE as well.
They were doing extremely well. It saved the game.
>>>>SO what Mark Jacobs is telling his fans of CU, I would rather have a limited number of players, make them spend 9.99 for what could be a medicre game, rather then having a larger player base who will spend 1 dollar minute and give the subscription players , actual players to play with.
Without addresing the mediocre part, I'm not making anybody do anything, I'm asking. Again, that's the point of the KSer. If we don't fund, I end up wasting about 150K. OTOH, if I try to make the game without the Kickstarter and it fails, I lose a lot more than that.
>>>>CU is a nich game, and to think little under 9k people can keep a server alive... is laughable and it is also a waste of resources.
Well, yes and no. Even if we had 10K paying $10 per month, that's 1.2M. That's not a large amount but it is not $0 either. Now, if we only had 10K at launch, then we would be a bad investment for me but assuming that my belief is that 30K - 50K would pay for this game, then it becomes a good investment.
What it boils down to is simply this, I don't want to try to make a FTP game and I'm promising my backers that the game will be a subscription-based game. Why is wanting to make a small game that appeals to a niche audience suddenly a bad thing especially as I've said the sub price will be below the industry average?
Keep one thing in mind please and that is the potential ratio of backers to possible players. Do you really think that games such as Torment and Project Eternity will only sell the copies that they have pre-sold on KS (in other words, no new orders)? Of course not evenif they are just good games but not outstanding. So, what could the possible ratio be between pre-sold and on release? Back in my EA days, I was told by all the sales folks that PC pre-orders accounted for <10% of total sales (this was back in 2008 and console sales traditionally had a much higher %). Now, if we look at KS as a more risky version of a pre-order, what is that percentage? If you also keep in mind that Obisidian's great games sold in the millions, then their sales on the KS would be, to use the parlance here, an epic failure if that's all they sold. Now, what do you think the chances of that really are? My guess is that if PE is the game I expect it will be, that 73K will represent less than 10% of their total sales. Now, I'm not saying that CU will get that high of a number, as a matter of fact I doubt that. OTOH, is it so unreasonable to think that if we fund with 15K backers that we would get a 3X once the game goes LIVE. I don't think it is. Again, this is all conjecture till one of the mega-hits of KS like Project Eternity goes up for sale.
Anyway, no matter what I'm taking the biggest risk as I already have by funding and putting my name back out there in interviews, in forums, etc.
There's nothing wrong with making a subscription-based game. What's wrong is that you come out and shit on the doorsteps of everyone who likes F2P by bashing the model because you've had a few bad run-ins with angry customers who didn't like how you handled your business.
Heck I don't blame them either check my rant about your article, it's nothing but trash talking the F2P model and the community who back it.
As far as the biggest risk, that's a joke. You're not an indie developer. You're the ex-owner of Mythic who sold off the company to EA. Quite a big back stabbing move on your part ( I bet you made a killing from that deal). But who's to blame? *cough* MJ *cough*. Now you're using a KS and acting like an indie developer with your background with DAoC. Trust me I loved DAoC and I love Indie-Developers, but I'll never forget the trash that came out of your studio when Mythic worked for EA.
+1000
I find it interesting that Mark Jacobs' psychic clarity doesn't extend to his own games.
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Aww, I thought we were just starting to get along. Seriously though, here is my thinking:
>>> What people like Mark Jacobs is missing is the fact the free to play opens up a game world to a bigger market share, and it is not about making 10 dollars a month, but 1 dollar a minute.
Far from it. I know this and totally respect the games that can pull this off well. However, it's not the game I want to make. I don't want to deal with a large number of free players in an RvR-based game. I absolutely recognize how successful some, not all, FTP comversions and games have been. Why is it wrong for me to want to make a smaller game and use KS to help guage interest if it is okay for FTP players to have their own game(s)?
>>>>Turbine is doing extremely well in that regard, SOE as well.
They were doing extremely well. It saved the game.
>>>>SO what Mark Jacobs is telling his fans of CU, I would rather have a limited number of players, make them spend 9.99 for what could be a medicre game, rather then having a larger player base who will spend 1 dollar minute and give the subscription players , actual players to play with.
Without addresing the mediocre part, I'm not making anybody do anything, I'm asking. Again, that's the point of the KSer. If we don't fund, I end up wasting about 150K. OTOH, if I try to make the game without the Kickstarter and it fails, I lose a lot more than that.
>>>>CU is a nich game, and to think little under 9k people can keep a server alive... is laughable and it is also a waste of resources.
Well, yes and no. Even if we had 10K paying $10 per month, that's 1.2M. That's not a large amount but it is not $0 either. Now, if we only had 10K at launch, then we would be a bad investment for me but assuming that my belief is that 30K - 50K would pay for this game, then it becomes a good investment.
What it boils down to is simply this, I don't want to try to make a FTP game and I'm promising my backers that the game will be a subscription-based game. Why is wanting to make a small game that appeals to a niche audience suddenly a bad thing especially as I've said the sub price will be below the industry average?
Keep one thing in mind please and that is the potential ratio of backers to possible players. Do you really think that games such as Torment and Project Eternity will only sell the copies that they have pre-sold on KS (in other words, no new orders)? Of course not evenif they are just good games but not outstanding. So, what could the possible ratio be between pre-sold and on release? Back in my EA days, I was told by all the sales folks that PC pre-orders accounted for <10% of total sales (this was back in 2008 and console sales traditionally had a much higher %). Now, if we look at KS as a more risky version of a pre-order, what is that percentage? If you also keep in mind that Obisidian's great games sold in the millions, then their sales on the KS would be, to use the parlance here, an epic failure if that's all they sold. Now, what do you think the chances of that really are? My guess is that if PE is the game I expect it will be, that 73K will represent less than 10% of their total sales. Now, I'm not saying that CU will get that high of a number, as a matter of fact I doubt that. OTOH, is it so unreasonable to think that if we fund with 15K backers that we would get a 3X once the game goes LIVE. I don't think it is. Again, this is all conjecture till one of the mega-hits of KS like Project Eternity goes up for sale.
Anyway, no matter what I'm taking the biggest risk as I already have by funding and putting my name back out there in interviews, in forums, etc.
There's nothing wrong with making a subscription-based game. What's wrong is that you come out and shit on the doorsteps of everyone who likes F2P by bashing the model because you've had a few bad run-ins with angry customers who didn't like how you handled your business.
Maybe we are talking about two different articles. Where did I bash the model? I've said the same exact things for years:
1) FTP has a place in the market
2) BTP has a place in the market
3) Sub has a place in the market
If one of these is seen as the "The One Model", it will get too crowded, reset and the market will correct.
Heck I don't blame them either check my rant about your article, it's nothing but trash talking the F2P model and the community who back it.
I did? What I did bash is the total flood of developers/pubs who are pouring in there right now. Please show me a period in the last 30 years of games when a ton of developers/pubs pouring into a new model didn't end badly. How many times have pubs/devs been burned when that happened (the first console market collapse happened more than 2 decades ago). I have no problem with the FTP model but I don't want to make games for it. I also strongly support the BTP model for certain games as you said you did. The point of the article was to talk about what was going to happen to developers/pubs and also what it would mean to consumers who do like FTP and pay for their enjoyment as opposed to those that don't.
As far as the biggest risk, that's a joke. You're not an indie developer. You're the ex-owner of Mythic who sold off the company to EA. Quite a big back stabbing move on your part ( I bet you made a killing from that deal). But who's to blame? *cough* MJ *cough*. Now you're using a KS and acting like an indie developer with your background with DAoC. Trust me I loved DAoC and I love Indie-Developers, but I'll never forget the trash that came out of your studio when Mythic worked for EA.
Ah, I see. I was the guy who sold the studio. Not the investors, not my partner it was me,the guy with a minority share of the company. Got it. And when I was at EA, I suppose I also was the CEO of EA so any decisions that were made were all mine. Okay. Now it's clear.
It is not pay to win. It is WHATEVER IT TAKES to hook in another whale that will drop few thousand a MONTH on a game. It is a crack dealer business model. Find the addicts. hook them in, feed on them. Make new game repeat. People do not get how f2p actually works. It is not sustainable long term. I get recrutiers trying to get me to work for one of these scam companies every week, they pop up all over the place non stop. Crash is coming
Nexon:Kingdom of the Winds, F2P since 1996
DarkEden 1997
Mir 2, 2000
Priston Tale 2001
Runescape 2001
Ragnarok Online 2002
MappleStory 2003
And those are just the popular very profitable ones I can think of off the top of my head...and when I say popular, I dont mean DaoC 250k players popular I mean, Maple Story MMOs have had over 39 MILLION accounts created worldwide. Back in 2006 the company made just over 300 million from it...thats equal to 1.6 million subscribers at $15 a month.
THAT is why Nexon is one of the largest gaming companies on the PLANET with a profit so massive, from F2P games. Its sustainable, has been for a long time.
Just say you dont like most F2P games and let it go, there is no point in throwing out remarks like you are, they are not true.
Well after reading some of MJ's own comments and ignorant statements with zero proof to back it and his past im actually glad im not supporting the kickstarter. Alienate moar before your game is even released plox lets see how great it does. Oh an this is coming from a die hard RvR'er
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
It is not pay to win. It is WHATEVER IT TAKES to hook in another whale that will drop few thousand a MONTH on a game. It is a crack dealer business model. Find the addicts. hook them in, feed on them. Make new game repeat. People do not get how f2p actually works. It is not sustainable long term. I get recrutiers trying to get me to work for one of these scam companies every week, they pop up all over the place non stop. Crash is coming
Nexon:Kingdom of the Winds, F2P since 1996
DarkEden 1997
Mir 2, 2000
Priston Tale 2001
Runescape 2001
Ragnarok Online 2002
MappleStory 2003
And those are just the popular very profitable ones I can think of off the top of my head...and when I say popular, I dont mean DaoC 250k players popular I mean, Maple Story MMOs have had over 39 MILLION accounts created worldwide. Back in 2006 the company made just over 300 million from it...thats equal to 1.6 million subscribers at $15 a month.
THAT is why Nexon is one of the largest gaming companies on the PLANET with a profit so massive, from F2P games. Its sustainable, has been for a long time.
Just say you dont like most F2P games and let it go, there is no point in throwing out remarks like you are, they are not true.
I got some Zynga stock I would like to sell you. Actually no I knew that thing was gona crash and burn before the ipo, too bad I do not have enough cash to be able to short them effectively.
In general educate yourself, find out where the $$ come in those games. You gona be surprised.
Originally posted by krevra Well after reading some of MJ's own comments and ignorant statements with zero proof to back it and his past im actually glad im not supporting the kickstarter. Alienate moar before your game is even released plox lets see how great it does. Oh an this is coming from a die hard RvR'er
One question. Do you believe the market is being flooded with cheap poorly conceived and executed free to play games? There are some good ones, I'm not asking about those.
Exactly. B2p, we will see how it shakes out, but most of the mmos that were made to be f2p from the beginning are garbage cash grabs imo. F2p works better for regular games, haven't seen a mmo that targeted f2p on release worth playing.
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
The worst part of it all, is that I was probably one of those people on the mythic boards who were pointing out many of the major flaws in Warhammer Online all the time.
I remember the podcasts and forum posts that laughed at fellow forum posters simply stating that the game was working as intended. Or, well then those players need to learn to play around the mechanics that system because we don't see anything wrong with it.
We found major exploites like bright wizards/sorcs were able to cast their spells through ceilings and walls ( which if I remember correctly was fixed 5-6 months after release).
There were many other issues with class skills not properly working as they should. However, we'd simply be laughed at and shrugged off by the company. Why did I continue to play Warhammer Online for 2 years after it's release? I liked the game and I liked the concept behind it. I only wished to see the game in the hands of people who actually cared about their product. However, had finally come to the realization that they didn't care. So I turned off my subscription, as did my entire guild of 100+ players (Ebonlore) and we moved on to better games.
Look. I know you think I'm an idiot, that I sold Mythic on my own and that somehow I knew how buggy WAR was at launch. I know nothing will convince you otherwise and that's fine. I won't throw anybody under the bus because I did make my own mistakes (crafting) but I ask you two simple things.
If I was the problem at Mythic as you seem to say, how did things go after I left? If they went better, well, you certainly have reason to blame me. If worse or the same, maybe it was more complicated than you think.
It's a reasonable assumption that I've reached all the people I could have expected to reach through being on the forums correct? Yet here I am on a Friday night, talking to you and others. I'm not screaming, threatening, calling people names, simply talking. I could have ignored this thread totally, doing so would have no effect on my KS (so no alterior motive) but instead I came in knowing full well what would happen. And this is my second question, if I was the guy that you seem to think I am, would I really spend all the time here talking to you and others?
For what it's worth and I've said this before, I fought the selling off of Mythic from the time our investors said we had to sell it. I was a minority owner at that point and well, the investors thought the timing was right. And before you say "Well, you could have quit!" Actually, I did and the only way I would come back was if I was allowed to make the deal I needed to without interference. And the deal I wanted, well, it was to protect my whole studio because that's what killed the next to last deal, my insistence on protecting all the members of my studio it had nothing to do with money, we had already agreed to an amount.
I doubt you'll believe anything I just said and that's fine, you have a right to your opinion. You should also consider one thing before you do that, if you asked almost anybody who worked at Mythic at the time of the M&A, they could tell you why I walked away from the deal and why I did so because I told them. That information is not confidential which is why I could tell you (or anybody else) but why I won't talk about other things.
I'm really sorry, truly, that you helped out with WAR and apparently we didn't listen. It doesn't matter why we didn't, WAR had too many problems on release. It launched before it was ready and as I have also said and even JR said in an earnings call, some of EA's games the quarter that WAR launched were pushed out too soon and that's as far as I'll go with that statement because the reason it launched was complicated and JR was not the bad guy.
Anyway, like I said I know nothing I said here will probably change your opinion and that's fine but at least I said it.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Im really confused by some of the comments in this thread. Where did he ever bash the F2P model? And he certainly never said anything bad about its customers as a group.
All he did was point out that its the "new thing" and way too many game developers are just flocking to it as if the model has some sort of magical powers without bothering to evaluate whether its actually the best model for their game.
I suppose he also pointed out that F2P models lead to more compliants and bad behavior, but thats just common sense. No cost of entry means more different people who have very different visions of what the game should be like. If you have to pay, you'll only pay if you actually want what is already being offered.
There are some good F2P models and there are bad ones. I think we'll see the pay to win ones dieing out in the long run but F2P isn't going away. Just look at the mobile market.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by NetSage There are some good F2P models and there are bad ones. I think we'll see the pay to win ones dieing out in the long run but F2P isn't going away. Just look at the mobile market.
My point entirely, a shakeout that hurts a lot of people, including consumers too (usually) once the consolidation happens.
Mark Jacobs CEO, City State Entertainment
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Originally posted by krevra Well after reading some of MJ's own comments and ignorant statements with zero proof to back it and his past im actually glad im not supporting the kickstarter. Alienate moar before your game is even released plox lets see how great it does. Oh an this is coming from a die hard RvR'er
One question. Do you believe the market is being flooded with cheap poorly conceived and executed free to play games? There are some good ones, I'm not asking about those.
There are some lower end F2P games that are being released. I've played quite a bit of them. But I believe the P2P market has been flooded with too many low quality games (which then turn to F2P and do quite well).
Im really confused by some of the comments in this thread. Where did he ever bash the F2P model? And he certainly never said anything bad about its customers as a group.
All he did was point out that its the "new thing" and way too many game developers are just flocking to it as if the model has some sort of magical powers without bothering to evaluate whether its actually the best model for their game.
I suppose he also pointed out that F2P models lead to more compliants and bad behavior, but thats just common sense. No cost of entry means more different people who have very different visions of what the game should be like. If you have to pay, you'll only pay if you actually want what is already being offered.
What exactly is being seen as offensive?
Hey, stop it, they got their torches and pitch forks, don't try to talk sense into them. Their reading comprehension has told them that he has said f2p will go away, is evil, and p2p is the only model that will survive!
The worst part of it all, is that I was probably one of those people on the mythic boards who were pointing out many of the major flaws in Warhammer Online all the time.
I remember the podcasts and forum posts that laughed at fellow forum posters simply stating that the game was working as intended. Or, well then those players need to learn to play around the mechanics that system because we don't see anything wrong with it.
We found major exploites like bright wizards/sorcs were able to cast their spells through ceilings and walls ( which if I remember correctly was fixed 5-6 months after release).
There were many other issues with class skills not properly working as they should. However, we'd simply be laughed at and shrugged off by the company. Why did I continue to play Warhammer Online for 2 years after it's release? I liked the game and I liked the concept behind it. I only wished to see the game in the hands of people who actually cared about their product. However, had finally come to the realization that they didn't care. So I turned off my subscription, as did my entire guild of 100+ players (Ebonlore) and we moved on to better games.
Look. I know you think I'm an idiot, that I sold Mythic on my own and that somehow I knew how buggy WAR was at launch. I know nothing will convince you otherwise and that's fine. I won't throw anybody under the bus because I did make my own mistakes (crafting) but I ask you two simple things.
If I was the problem at Mythic as you seem to say, how did things go after I left?
It's a reasonable assumption that I've reached all the people I could have expected to reach through being on the forums correct? Yet here I am on a Friday night, talking to you and others. I'm not screaming, threatening, calling people names, simply talking. I could have ignored this thread totally, doing so would have no effect on my KS (so no alterior motive) but instead I came in knowing full well what would happen. And this is my second question, if I was the guy that you seem to think I am, would I really spend all the time here talking to you and others?
For what it's worth and I've said this before, I fought the selling off of Mythic from the time our investors said we had to sell it. I was a minority owner at that point and well, the investors thought the timing was right. And before you say "Well, you could have quit!" Actually, I did and the only way I would come back was if I was allowed to make the deal I needed to without interference. And the deal I wanted, well, it was to protect my whole studio because that's what killed the next to last deal, my insistence on protecting all the members of my studio it had nothing to do with money, we had already agreed to an amount.
I doubt you'll believe anything I just said and that's fine, you have a right to your opinion. You should also consider one thing before you do that, if you asked almost anybody who worked at Mythic at the time of the M&A, they could tell you why I walked away from the deal and why I did so because I told them. That information is not confidential which is why I could tell you (or anybody else) but why I won't talk about other things.
I'm really sorry, truly, that you helped out with WAR and apparently we didn't listen. It doesn't matter why we didn't, WAR had too many problems on release. It launched before it was ready and as I have also said and even JR said in an earnings call, some of EA's games the quarter that WAR launched were pushed out too soon and that's as far as I'll go with that statement because the reason it launched was complicated and JR was not the bad guy.
Anyway, like I said I know nothing I said here will probably change your opinion and that's fine but at least I said it.
"applaud" This is how you answer criticism.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
The worst part of it all, is that I was probably one of those people on the mythic boards who were pointing out many of the major flaws in Warhammer Online all the time.
I remember the podcasts and forum posts that laughed at fellow forum posters simply stating that the game was working as intended. Or, well then those players need to learn to play around the mechanics that system because we don't see anything wrong with it.
We found major exploites like bright wizards/sorcs were able to cast their spells through ceilings and walls ( which if I remember correctly was fixed 5-6 months after release).
There were many other issues with class skills not properly working as they should. However, we'd simply be laughed at and shrugged off by the company. Why did I continue to play Warhammer Online for 2 years after it's release? I liked the game and I liked the concept behind it. I only wished to see the game in the hands of people who actually cared about their product. However, had finally come to the realization that they didn't care. So I turned off my subscription, as did my entire guild of 100+ players (Ebonlore) and we moved on to better games.
Look. I know you think I'm an idiot, that I sold Mythic on my own and that somehow I knew how buggy WAR was at launch. I know nothing will convince you otherwise and that's fine. I won't throw anybody under the bus because I did make my own mistakes (crafting) but I ask you two simple things.
If I was the problem at Mythic as you seem to say, how did things go after I left?
Pretty good actually. SOme free advice, just stop posting, cause a CEo saying the things you are , is killing your COMPANIES chance for success. It seems like when things are going good, you are out in the limelight, but when things go south, you are never to be found... much like WAR. Where was this passion and desire to fix what was already infront of you....
LOL. Really? When things went wrong with Dark Age of Camelot, remember my Mea Culpas? Did I ever, even once, blame anyone else? I was always out there taking on my/our shoulders. With WAR, well, I was an officer of EA and like you've seen from many publicly traded companies, they have to be careful about what they say for legal reasons. That's how most PTC companies work and that is one of the reasons, officers (not just employees) tend to be more guarded in their public statements, because we/they have to be.
LOL, no matter what you say F2P is a money making scheme! No company is going to develop a game for free...yea, aspect are free to play but you know as well as anyone that that willl not be the end of all!!!!!
Pretty good actually. SOme free advice, just stop posting, cause a CEo saying the things you are , is killing your COMPANIES chance for success. It seems like when things are going good, you are out in the limelight, but when things go south, you are never to be found... much like WAR. Where was this passion and desire to fix what was already infront of you....
Sorry no... What MJ has shown is backbone as well as integrity. That's what I'd want to see from something/someone I backed. He's right he doesn't have to be here talking to folks like yourself, but he is, he respects you while he does it, what's so hard about doing the same back?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
Pretty good actually. SOme free advice, just stop posting, cause a CEo saying the things you are , is killing your COMPANIES chance for success. It seems like when things are going good, you are out in the limelight, but when things go south, you are never to be found... much like WAR. Where was this passion and desire to fix what was already infront of you....
Sorry no... What MJ has shown is backbone as well as integrity. That's what I'd want to see from something/someone I backed. He's right he doesn't have to be here talking to folks like yourself, but he is, he respects you while he does it, what's so hard about doing the same back?
Comments
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
+1000
I find it interesting that Mark Jacobs' psychic clarity doesn't extend to his own games.
Maybe we are talking about two different articles. Where did I bash the model? I've said the same exact things for years:
1) FTP has a place in the market
2) BTP has a place in the market
3) Sub has a place in the market
If one of these is seen as the "The One Model", it will get too crowded, reset and the market will correct.
I did? What I did bash is the total flood of developers/pubs who are pouring in there right now. Please show me a period in the last 30 years of games when a ton of developers/pubs pouring into a new model didn't end badly. How many times have pubs/devs been burned when that happened (the first console market collapse happened more than 2 decades ago). I have no problem with the FTP model but I don't want to make games for it. I also strongly support the BTP model for certain games as you said you did. The point of the article was to talk about what was going to happen to developers/pubs and also what it would mean to consumers who do like FTP and pay for their enjoyment as opposed to those that don't.
Ah, I see. I was the guy who sold the studio. Not the investors, not my partner it was me,the guy with a minority share of the company. Got it. And when I was at EA, I suppose I also was the CEO of EA so any decisions that were made were all mine. Okay. Now it's clear.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Nexon:Kingdom of the Winds, F2P since 1996
DarkEden 1997
Mir 2, 2000
Priston Tale 2001
Runescape 2001
Ragnarok Online 2002
MappleStory 2003
And those are just the popular very profitable ones I can think of off the top of my head...and when I say popular, I dont mean DaoC 250k players popular I mean, Maple Story MMOs have had over 39 MILLION accounts created worldwide. Back in 2006 the company made just over 300 million from it...thats equal to 1.6 million subscribers at $15 a month.
THAT is why Nexon is one of the largest gaming companies on the PLANET with a profit so massive, from F2P games. Its sustainable, has been for a long time.
Just say you dont like most F2P games and let it go, there is no point in throwing out remarks like you are, they are not true.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I got some Zynga stock I would like to sell you. Actually no I knew that thing was gona crash and burn before the ipo, too bad I do not have enough cash to be able to short them effectively.
In general educate yourself, find out where the $$ come in those games. You gona be surprised.
Exactly. B2p, we will see how it shakes out, but most of the mmos that were made to be f2p from the beginning are garbage cash grabs imo. F2p works better for regular games, haven't seen a mmo that targeted f2p on release worth playing.
Look. I know you think I'm an idiot, that I sold Mythic on my own and that somehow I knew how buggy WAR was at launch. I know nothing will convince you otherwise and that's fine. I won't throw anybody under the bus because I did make my own mistakes (crafting) but I ask you two simple things.
If I was the problem at Mythic as you seem to say, how did things go after I left? If they went better, well, you certainly have reason to blame me. If worse or the same, maybe it was more complicated than you think.
It's a reasonable assumption that I've reached all the people I could have expected to reach through being on the forums correct? Yet here I am on a Friday night, talking to you and others. I'm not screaming, threatening, calling people names, simply talking. I could have ignored this thread totally, doing so would have no effect on my KS (so no alterior motive) but instead I came in knowing full well what would happen. And this is my second question, if I was the guy that you seem to think I am, would I really spend all the time here talking to you and others?
For what it's worth and I've said this before, I fought the selling off of Mythic from the time our investors said we had to sell it. I was a minority owner at that point and well, the investors thought the timing was right. And before you say "Well, you could have quit!" Actually, I did and the only way I would come back was if I was allowed to make the deal I needed to without interference. And the deal I wanted, well, it was to protect my whole studio because that's what killed the next to last deal, my insistence on protecting all the members of my studio it had nothing to do with money, we had already agreed to an amount.
I doubt you'll believe anything I just said and that's fine, you have a right to your opinion. You should also consider one thing before you do that, if you asked almost anybody who worked at Mythic at the time of the M&A, they could tell you why I walked away from the deal and why I did so because I told them. That information is not confidential which is why I could tell you (or anybody else) but why I won't talk about other things.
I'm really sorry, truly, that you helped out with WAR and apparently we didn't listen. It doesn't matter why we didn't, WAR had too many problems on release. It launched before it was ready and as I have also said and even JR said in an earnings call, some of EA's games the quarter that WAR launched were pushed out too soon and that's as far as I'll go with that statement because the reason it launched was complicated and JR was not the bad guy.
Anyway, like I said I know nothing I said here will probably change your opinion and that's fine but at least I said it.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Im really confused by some of the comments in this thread. Where did he ever bash the F2P model? And he certainly never said anything bad about its customers as a group.
All he did was point out that its the "new thing" and way too many game developers are just flocking to it as if the model has some sort of magical powers without bothering to evaluate whether its actually the best model for their game.
I suppose he also pointed out that F2P models lead to more compliants and bad behavior, but thats just common sense. No cost of entry means more different people who have very different visions of what the game should be like. If you have to pay, you'll only pay if you actually want what is already being offered.
What exactly is being seen as offensive?
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
My point entirely, a shakeout that hurts a lot of people, including consumers too (usually) once the consolidation happens.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Which, by the way, I also agree with you.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Hey, stop it, they got their torches and pitch forks, don't try to talk sense into them. Their reading comprehension has told them that he has said f2p will go away, is evil, and p2p is the only model that will survive!
BURN!
"applaud" This is how you answer criticism.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
LOL. Really? When things went wrong with Dark Age of Camelot, remember my Mea Culpas? Did I ever, even once, blame anyone else? I was always out there taking on my/our shoulders. With WAR, well, I was an officer of EA and like you've seen from many publicly traded companies, they have to be careful about what they say for legal reasons. That's how most PTC companies work and that is one of the reasons, officers (not just employees) tend to be more guarded in their public statements, because we/they have to be.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Sorry no... What MJ has shown is backbone as well as integrity. That's what I'd want to see from something/someone I backed. He's right he doesn't have to be here talking to folks like yourself, but he is, he respects you while he does it, what's so hard about doing the same back?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Thanks. Appreciate it.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment