Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Poll: (For you non backers) The Depths

TimothyEisenzimmerTimothyEisenzimmer ColumnistPosts: 2,258Member Uncommon

I'm curious...see below.

«13

Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Common
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSPosts: 320Member
    Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
    less of MJ's lips flapping, more work on the project. MJ will sink his own boat with those loose lips.

    Amazing how devs are damned if the do and damned if they don't:P

    Complaint in many mmo's the devs won't listen and talk to us!

    or it's I wish the devs would quit talking to us!

    lol

  • naezgulnaezgul Homer Glen, ILPosts: 374Member
    Originally posted by gylnne
    Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
    less of MJ's lips flapping, more work on the project. MJ will sink his own boat with those loose lips.

    Amazing how devs are damned if the do and damned if they don't:P

    Complaint in many mmo's the devs won't listen and talk to us!

    or it's I wish the devs would quit talking to us!

    lol

    He wants to see a finished reviewed game(rating 8.5+) , then he will fund KS

  • CypzCypz Ottawa, ONPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by gylnne
    Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
    less of MJ's lips flapping, more work on the project. MJ will sink his own boat with those loose lips.

    Amazing how devs are damned if the do and damned if they don't:P

    Complaint in many mmo's the devs won't listen and talk to us!

    or it's I wish the devs would quit talking to us!

    lol

    lmao.  I prefer the devs "lips flapping" then igoring us and not informing us of what is happening.  Also, MJ and CSE are promoting a Kickstarter.  Do you really think they should sit back and just wait to see if it gets funded or market the games foundations and goals??

    Go CSE Go!

    Cypz/Cypress

    MLF(Alb)/Mordred/Lamorak(Mid)

  • boxsndboxsnd Kraxton, ARPosts: 438Member Uncommon
    I need to see alpha access at $30 before I give them my money.

    DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  • LawtoweenLawtoween Houston, TXPosts: 103Member
    Originally posted by Cypz
    Originally posted by gylnne
    Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
    less of MJ's lips flapping, more work on the project. MJ will sink his own boat with those loose lips.

    Amazing how devs are damned if the do and damned if they don't:P

    Complaint in many mmo's the devs won't listen and talk to us!

    or it's I wish the devs would quit talking to us!

    lol

    lmao.  I prefer the devs "lips flapping" then igoring us and not informing us of what is happening.  Also, MJ and CSE are promoting a Kickstarter.  Do you really think they should sit back and just wait to see if it gets funded or market the games foundations and goals??

    Go CSE Go!

    +1

    There'll be plenty of time for coding after CU funds.

  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLPosts: 20,934Member Rare
    I'd be happier if it was part of the core product rather than a stretch goal, but I'll still likely toss them some cash.

    "Winning" at EVE Online since 2006! 

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


  • binskkibinskki Bourbonnais, ILPosts: 153Member Common
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    I need to see alpha access at $30 before I give them my money.

    If it's helpful, Mark Jacobs has said repeatedly that people who pledge at other tiers but show on the forums that they are active and interested in giving feedback are likely to be invited as testers.

  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member Common
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    I need to see alpha access at $30 before I give them my money.

    These sorts of comments are really indicative of a misunderstanding of what alpha is.  Other games on Kickstarter give everybody alpha access, but those games are actually pretty much finished.  Thats not alpha.  Alpha is already over for them.  Its been done without you.  Those companies are just looking for extra hype and some funding to push some extra features in before the product ships out the door.

     

    CU's kickstarter is coming in at the ground floor.  Development is just starting and wont be done until the end of 2015.  Alpha means there are still going to be lots of problems and bugs and probably tons of changes before the final product is pushed out.  They dont want some absurd number of people in alpha because then their small team of people would have to sort out all the worthless comments from the useful criticism and bug reports.  They dont want people raging about the game online saying it sucks just because they saw an incomplete version of it and are too dumb to realize its not finished yet.

  • GyrusGyrus Lost City of ZPosts: 2,413Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by binskki
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    I need to see alpha access at $30 before I give them my money.

    If it's helpful, Mark Jacobs has said repeatedly that people who pledge at other tiers but show on the forums that they are active and interested in giving feedback are likely to be invited as testers.

    These two quotes in themselves are part of the reason I don't think Mark Jacobs can make this work. 

    Getting / allowing people to pay for access to 'testing' - bad.

    Encouraging "Fanboi-ism" - bad.  Particularly amongst testers - very bad.  If you want objective testers who are actually prepared to say... nah don't like that... have you thought of this?  Or go out of their way to 'break the game' and show up the devs lack of planning / forethought / bad design / bad mechanics.

    It isn't hard to think of a few MMOs in the past few years that have got to release and found massive holes in their games - why?  Because Fanbois aren't objective.  They still really believe that there will be a massive "Launch Day Patch" that fixes everything.  Everything that is wrong - that no-one dared to mention least they be labeled a "troll" or a "h8ter".

    And Mark Jacobs talks big - but I really don't think he really has any idea how to make things work if his first plan doesn't work?  I saw which way war was going after the open Beta (posted it here too).  But Mark put his faith in that it would sort itself out IIRC?  Well - it didn't.  

    Tri-realm will balance the game!  Will it?  Why?  and what happens if it doesn't?  What's the backup to prevent servers being over-run by one dominant realm?

    Because I can tell you for a fact that there are 'tri-realm" games out there that are far from balanced.  And with MMOs all over the place most people (except a few hardcores) won't stick around just to be a target. 

     

    I read about Camelot Unchained and the ideas in Mark's head and I like it... because I have similar ideas in my head.  In fact I have a game in my head  that is even more awesome than CU.  And the one in my head is far more realistic too - since I have already figured out how to solve many of the problems of RvR MMOs (I think).  And I have more realistic goals than CU too.

    But that's the thing - it's in my head.  And like CU - unless I at least get to Alpha I won't really know for sure if all my ideas are truely feasible.  And unless I get to Beta I won't know if players will find loopholes I haven't even considered.

     

     

    Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member Common

    Yes, for me it is.

    This concept is simply brilliant, it's a game changer for me.

    Ask me 2 weeks ago if I would back this KS, I'd say no, not a chance.....now? Well, now I'm seriously considering it.

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member

    I have no intention of backing a game that is exploiting a classic for its own gains when there isn't any actual data on the game but words and words are just that.

    I also don't intend to back a PvP only game that thinks it has the right to be called a MMO. Plenty of PvP only games out there to play in a open wold all I want already.

    Don't forget it is going to be more like GW2 WvWvW than it will be like DAoC RvR.

    Would never back this idea no matter how much I loved DAoC.

  • MellozMelloz Charlotte, NCPosts: 26Member
    Originally posted by Gyrus
    Originally posted by binskki
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    I need to see alpha access at $30 before I give them my money.

    If it's helpful, Mark Jacobs has said repeatedly that people who pledge at other tiers but show on the forums that they are active and interested in giving feedback are likely to be invited as testers.

    These two quotes in themselves are part of the reason I don't think Mark Jacobs can make this work. 

    Getting / allowing people to pay for access to 'testing' - bad.

    Encouraging "Fanboi-ism" - bad.  Particularly amongst testers - very bad.  If you want objective testers who are actually prepared to say... nah don't like that... have you thought of this?  Or go out of their way to 'break the game' and show up the devs lack of planning / forethought / bad design / bad mechanics.

    It isn't hard to think of a few MMOs in the past few years that have got to release and found massive holes in their games - why?  Because Fanbois aren't objective.  They still really believe that there will be a massive "Launch Day Patch" that fixes everything.  Everything that is wrong - that no-one dared to mention least they be labeled a "troll" or a "h8ter".

    And Mark Jacobs talks big - but I really don't think he really has any idea how to make things work if his first plan doesn't work?  I saw which way war was going after the open Beta (posted it here too).  But Mark put his faith in that it would sort itself out IIRC?  Well - it didn't.  

    Tri-realm will balance the game!  Will it?  Why?  and what happens if it doesn't?  What's the backup to prevent servers being over-run by one dominant realm?

    Because I can tell you for a fact that there are 'tri-realm" games out there that are far from balanced.  And with MMOs all over the place most people (except a few hardcores) won't stick around just to be a target. 

     

    I read about Camelot Unchained and the ideas in Mark's head and I like it... because I have similar ideas in my head.  In fact I have a game in my head  that is even more awesome than CU.  And the one in my head is far more realistic too - since I have already figured out how to solve many of the problems of RvR MMOs (I think).  And I have more realistic goals than CU too.

    But that's the thing - it's in my head.  And like CU - unless I at least get to Alpha I won't really know for sure if all my ideas are truely feasible.  And unless I get to Beta I won't know if players will find loopholes I haven't even considered.

     

     

    And the only way you can find out is if you get the money to get the game to a state to see if the ideas are truely feasible.  There are many ways to do this.  You can go to a big corporate developer and sell them on it.  They are going to make you change what you want to get better and better numbers for their shareholders though.  You can go to a small group of heavy investors.  You give up a lot of your stake though.  I also get the impression that not many large investors are willing to risk money on this type of game.  Too niche, too risky, high return not guaranteed.  You can fund it yourself if you have enough money and can get the loans necessary.  That's a huge risk though.  Or, you can sell your idea through a Kickstarter, maintain control over the idea, and only risk the ire of your backers.

     

    Now I can perfectly understand why people would be against putting money into something that could fail.  I'm usually like that.  I think it means a lot that MJ will put in $2M of his money.  I also am convinced that this type of game can't be made without a project like this.  I also fear that this kickstarter failing would only ensure that's true.  It would prove the neysayers right.

  • nakkinakki KauniainenPosts: 56Member
    I can't see myself ever backing a game
  • GendarkGendark New York, NYPosts: 89Member Uncommon

     

    First i backed this project, some friends made me do it ...  but after some days we all retired our pledge.

    Why ??

    This game is just smoke and mirrors, nothing more nothing less, just an idea in MJs head, comunity in CU  seem to give him all the  credit for daoc like if only him made the game but then they say we need to forgive him for all the wrongs (TOA, WAR, etc..) or just they werent his fault. 

    Also 98% of kickstarter games have a base or atleast people spent some money doing a prototype of the game. CU has nothing, and MJs politic of "i will put my 2m $  on the table when i already have other peoples money in my bag" its just bad. 

    If you really belive in your project you spent money and resources right away and don't wait and see what happens if...

    On topic, the depths are just more of the same, Smoke and mirrors he will say all he had to say to attract more people to his cause.

    I really like the idea of a DAOC 2 with darkness falls, but i really hope CU kickstarter FAILS to be funded, it doesn't deserves the money right now. So if it fails, maybe MJ and his team with spent HIS money on doing a prototype to show something to people and do another kickstarter in few months, and then i will back it up.

  • DocmanduDocmandu AntwerpPosts: 60Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Thorbrand
    Don't forget it is going to be more like GW2 WvWvW than it will be like DAoC RvR.

     

    Care to elaborate on that?! Because from what I've heard so far, it's pretty much the other way round. (maps, mechanics.. as we have no clue about the combat yet)

     

     

  • It's definitely pushed me further towards backing. The game sounds more and more interesting. My beef with it so far is the game is so early in development they're not actually able to show any gameplay.
  • mmoskimmoski plymouthPosts: 282Member

    I actually really like the idea of the Depths, but I think he needs to change the name, the only issue I have is why is this a stretch goal ?!  This sounds like a key component of RvR and will add a huge amount of tactical RvR game play. IMO since there is no PvE in CU, this should have been in the core design, I would prefer the stretch goals stick to minor additions, and stager them more frequently.

    But yeah a nice addition, still on the fence though, want more indepth info on the fluid combat system.

  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gylnne
    Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
    less of MJ's lips flapping, more work on the project. MJ will sink his own boat with those loose lips.

    Amazing how devs are damned if the do and damned if they don't:P

    Complaint in many mmo's the devs won't listen and talk to us!

    or it's I wish the devs would quit talking to us!

    lol

    just ignore him. he appearently doesnt like MJ (see this http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5661936#5661936) so he is trolling every thread about CU.

  • anandaananda singaporePosts: 43Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gendark
    This game is just smoke and mirrors, nothing more nothing less, just an idea in MJs head, comunity in CU  seem to give him all the  credit for daoc like if only him made the game but then they say we need to forgive him for all the wrongs (TOA, WAR, etc..) or just they werent his fault. 

    Also 98% of kickstarter games have a base or atleast people spent some money doing a prototype of the game. CU has nothing, and MJs politic of "i will put my 2m $  on the table when i already have other peoples money in my bag" its just bad. 

    If you really belive in your project you spent money and resources right away and don't wait and see what happens if...

    To me, CU's way of using kickstarter is more inline of the website's philosophy and as far as I can see is how most other (non video-game) projects there do it. You propose what you want to do (create an album, get some photos, write a poetry, etc). Then you list out why you think you are qualified to do it and why people should fund you. And finally you list out what people will get when, for various level of pledges. I think this project does meet those requirements; there is no requirement to have a prototype or nearly working product.

    If anything, to me it is a bit weirder when you need to ask for more money after you have sunk several million dollars already. After so much sunk costs, you are probably more or less commited to releasing the game anyway in some form. So the kickstarter is probably nothing but publicity or pre-order platform at that point (with the added bonus of allowing them to tap the rich people's high reservation price through the extremely high pledge levels), not a real fund raiser. I don't about you, but to me saying they will not go ahead with the game if it doesn't fund and that he will add the $2m only after is more sincere.

    Also, I don't think it is about belief in your project. It is just about good business sense. I guess the concept is what he thinks is the best possible he could create...but there is nothing to guarantee that it is what people would want. The target audience isa niche within a niche, he is not targeting millions here. So a slight miscalculation could well leave him with almost no player, and it is kinda hard to do market research on such a small target audience. So, using kickstarter to gauge interest is a good idea imo.

    That said, backing this kind of project is certainly not for everyone. The risk level is rather high, and the time frame is very long and a lot could change in the mean time. After reading through the sites, I have decided not to back it (I'm quite risk-averse), although I will probably follow it and play when/if it get released.

  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gendark

     

    First i backed this project, some friends made me do it ...  but after some days we all retired our pledge.

    Why ??

    This game is just smoke and mirrors, nothing more nothing less, just an idea in MJs head, comunity in CU  seem to give him all the  credit for daoc like if only him made the game but then they say we need to forgive him for all the wrongs (TOA, WAR, etc..) or just they werent his fault. 

    Also 98% of kickstarter games have a base or atleast people spent some money doing a prototype of the game. CU has nothing, and MJs politic of "i will put my 2m $  on the table when i already have other peoples money in my bag" its just bad. 

    If you really belive in your project you spent money and resources right away and don't wait and see what happens if...

    On topic, the depths are just more of the same, Smoke and mirrors he will say all he had to say to attract more people to his cause.

    I really like the idea of a DAOC 2 with darkness falls, but i really hope CU kickstarter FAILS to be funded, it doesn't deserves the money right now. So if it fails, maybe MJ and his team with spent HIS money on doing a prototype to show something to people and do another kickstarter in few months, and then i will back it up.

    sorry, but thats bull

    1. kickstarter was created exactly for this purpose - to give funding to people who would like to pursue their ideas/vision

    2. "98% ks games have a base or at least doing prototype" - thats not true at all. sure there is a lot of ks games which did, but its still less then 50% (i would even say a lot less) and reason why even those exist is simple:

    they usually come from 3 types:

    a) people using existing engine to build their game (or at least the prototype)

    b) people (usually ones who dont have much experiences with game programming) who are making the game in their spare time, not as their main job

    c) people who are making a game which isnt that different from others on market, so they KNOW there is an interest for that type of a game.

    3. no sane developer invest that much of his own money (and trust me, presentable profesional prototype build on own engine with own graphics costs at least tens of thousands of dolars) on the game he dont know there is enough interest in. which is one of the important results this KS will give - if there is enough interest in such game.

     

     

    "I really like the idea of a DAOC 2 with darkness falls, but i really hope CU kickstarter FAILS to be funded, it doesn't deserves the money right now. So if it fails, maybe MJ and his team with spent HIS money on doing a prototype to show something to people and do another kickstarter in few months, and then i will back it up."

    then you will not back it up ever, since MJ would be insane if he would try to make CU if the KS fails.

     

    i do understand why a lot of people are not willing to back up the idea w/o prototype (tho in some cases it looks to me more that they are just looking for the excuse not to back it up), but i have to say i never understood such people. because what they are saying is "for me the form (graphics etc.) is more important then game mechanics". for me the ideas are by far the most important thing - what good it is to me that games like gw2, wow, rift etc have amazing production values (graphics, music, sound, polish etc) when they are simply boring (for me)?

  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon

    ananda: hehe it seems we were typing similar posts at the same time :)

    edit: btw, if you are at least intrested in the game, back it up with 1$, not for money, but to increase backers count to show CSE that there are people interested in the game. worst what can happen is you will lose 1$.

  • macellismacellis DunedinPosts: 2Member
    Originally posted by Thorbrand
    Don't forget it is going to be more like GW2 WvWvW than it will be like DAoC RvR.

    Would never back this idea no matter how much I loved DAoC.

    What makes you say that?

    I havn't seen any information to suggest it would be more like WvWvW but if you have I would be interested in reading it?

  • AeodoAeodo Le Plessis-RobinsonPosts: 61Member
    Originally posted by Gendark

     

    but i really hope CU kickstarter FAILS to be funded, it doesn't deserves the money right now. So if it fails, maybe MJ and his team with spent HIS money on doing a prototype to show something to people and do another kickstarter in few months, and then i will back it up.

    This kind of comment makes me sick. You don't realise there will be no game at all if the project isn't funded. MJ won't spend his money in the future for a working prototype because he will know for sure there won't be enough interest for his game.

  • anandaananda singaporePosts: 43Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Benedikt

    i do understand why a lot of people are not willing to back up the idea w/o prototype (tho in some cases it looks to me more that they are just looking for the excuse not to back it up), but i have to say i never understood such people. because what they are saying is "for me the form (graphics etc.) is more important then game mechanics". for me the ideas are by far the most important thing - what good it is to me that games like gw2, wow, rift etc have amazing production values (graphics, music, sound, polish etc) when they are simply boring (for me)?

    Not really. What we are saying is, the execution of the idea matters more than the idea itself. For example, to me gw2 had a really great idea with dynamic quest, but unfortunately the execution falls flat and didn't deliver the promise. To reach the lofty goals set out in their MMO manifesto (like "you're rescuing a village, that will stay rescued, that then remembers you"), I guess they would need to somehow invent a lot more quest types, then increase the number of quests at least by 100 times (while at the same time maintaining or even increasing the quality of all quests), such that quests barely gets repeated at all and the world changes, but you still have something to do all the time. Not something that is financially viable at all, but that doesn't mean the original idea itself is bad.

    The point is, a good idea with lousy implementation still results in a bad game, so that alone is not sufficient. Particularly in a relatively low budget game like this, the execution concerns me the most and is what prevents me from committing to it at this point.

«13
Sign In or Register to comment.