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And just like that...

TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless ColumnistM, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

...my current MMO selection gets a little less exciting.

Why haven't any of the big money companies tried something like the Depths?

I assume it's because a few players would be upset if they couldn't get into the depths because they dont wanna join a guild or find a crafter or put in the effort.

I'm mostly solo, I'll probably rarely get into the depths myself, but when I started MMOs that how it was. If you didn't do X you couldn't do Y and so you lacked Z. And it was fine with me because it even though I couldn't often do it, it added to the MMO I enjoyed.

Finally someone remembered that not everyone gets a trophy!

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Comments

  • StilerStiler Athens, TNPosts: 599Member

    From my understanding, the Depths are't about "guilds" at all, but rather entire Realms.

    If one realm controls it, you don't have to be part of that "guild" that actually took it to use it (IE the mines/forge, etc) it's realm based, so solo types of players can use it just the same as guilds.

  • evil13evil13 Burlington, MAPosts: 359Member

    Inovation usually comes from the smaller, more risk taking entities rather than the industry leaders.

    And yea, you shouldn't need a guild to have a go at the Depths, though it does sound like it will require cooperation between crafters and other classes (but again, on a realm wide level, not neccessarily a guild)

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    In DAOC, your realm gained access to DF if you controlled the most keeps (later towers). Once you got access, anybody could go in whether they were in a guild or not. Now it was true that underpopulated realms got into DF much less frequently than those with more players. For instance Mids on Gawaine complained about lack of access to DF which was mostly swapped back and forth between Albs and Hibs. That could be a serious issue if gear crafted in the Depths is the best in the game.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 467Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by meddyck
    In DAOC, your realm gained access to DF if you controlled the most keeps (later towers). Once you got access, anybody could go in whether they were in a guild or not. Now it was true that underpopulated realms got into DF much less frequently than those with more players. For instance Mids on Gawaine complained about lack of access to DF which was mostly swapped back and forth between Albs and Hibs. That could be a serious issue if gear crafted in the Depths is the best in the game.

    Totally correct which is why it won't work this way in TD.

    One of the things I said in our backers comments and mentioned in our video, TD is alive not just a musty old dungeon. It will be an amusing, unpredictable and <drum roll please> chaotic place. :)

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by meddyck
    In DAOC, your realm gained access to DF if you controlled the most keeps (later towers). Once you got access, anybody could go in whether they were in a guild or not. Now it was true that underpopulated realms got into DF much less frequently than those with more players. For instance Mids on Gawaine complained about lack of access to DF which was mostly swapped back and forth between Albs and Hibs. That could be a serious issue if gear crafted in the Depths is the best in the game.

    Totally correct which is why it won't work this way in TD.

    One of the things I said in our backers comments and mentioned in our video, TD is alive not just a musty old dungeon. It will be an amusing, unpredictable and chaotic place. :)

     This guy is such a fanboy!

     

     

     

     

    :)

     

    It is amazing though that so few developers have stolen the idea from Daoc. They go so far as basically copying the RvR aspect but then fail to impliment anything beyond the most basics of concept. They waste so much time and effort on pve and their mini-games that have nothing to do with RvR.

     

    Todays update has me all giddy inside! Mark ... I think the greatest benefit to your concept focus being 100% RvR or RvR related is the ability to offer expansions 100% devoted to the core game play. I can't think of any other mmo at the moment that can do this. Their content is spread out between subsystems and min-games and often eaten up quickly because entire expansions have no unity or focus and each player only benefits partially from the content depending on playstyle.

     

    You can do so much more. I was hoping this ability to focus on RvR only would lead you into new content possibilities and now I see this is exactly how you and your team see it too.

    You stay sassy!

  • tauraktaurak rock cave, WVPosts: 174Member

    Yeah, I hope a solo crafter could make his way in to the "black forge of legendary awesomeness" and make a sword of "leet wtfpwnage" if its owned by your realm.

    I personally don't think that you should have to be a part of a guild to be able to achieve the status of being a legendary crafter for your realm.

    However I can already forsee that guild crafters are going to be the best crafters. Its unavoidable. Some crafters will probably be made to work as "gatherers" while the main crafter gets to use their resources to gain skill way higher than anyone else.

    There almost has to be some form of way to gain skill at crafting, though mark said you won't be makign 10,000 worthless swords to be able to create 1 good useable sword, I'm sure you won't start off with the ability to make the best items in the game at lvl 1, given your guild funnels you the materials.

     

    For me, I think it would be much more fun to roleplay as a "reclusive" crafter, who can make the best swords on the entire server, not affiliated with any guild at all, but only the other players he encounters at his home, or during gathering. Of course when the horn of war sounds, I would go to help fortify the city walls and build defensive structures too.

    I hope there will be  a way for me to do this. I don't like beign a part of an "uber guild". I've been there, done that. I want to be a part of the realm, not alienated completely, but also not a member of their guild, and still somehow have what I do matter to the realm.

    Example, if I spend 16 hours a day crafting, I should be able to craft better things than a guild crafter that spends 4 hours a day crafting, but has tons of materials funneled to him from his guild.

  • naezgulnaezgul Homer Glen, ILPosts: 374Member
    Originally posted by taurak

    Yeah, I hope a solo crafter could make his way in to the "black forge of legendary awesomeness" and make a sword of "leet wtfpwnage" if its owned by your realm.

    I personally don't think that you should have to be a part of a guild to be able to achieve the status of being a legendary crafter for your realm.

    However I can already forsee that guild crafters are going to be the best crafters. Its unavoidable. Some crafters will probably be made to work as "gatherers" while the main crafter gets to use their resources to gain skill way higher than anyone else.

    There almost has to be some form of way to gain skill at crafting, though mark said you won't be makign 10,000 worthless swords to be able to create 1 good useable sword, I'm sure you won't start off with the ability to make the best items in the game at lvl 1, given your guild funnels you the materials.

     

    For me, I think it would be much more fun to roleplay as a "reclusive" crafter, who can make the best swords on the entire server, not affiliated with any guild at all, but only the other players he encounters at his home, or during gathering. Of course when the horn of war sounds, I would go to help fortify the city walls and build defensive structures too.

    I hope there will be  a way for me to do this. I don't like beign a part of an "uber guild". I've been there, done that. I want to be a part of the realm, not alienated completely, but also not a member of their guild, and still somehow have what I do matter to the realm.

    Example, if I spend 16 hours a day crafting, I should be able to craft better things than a guild crafter that spends 4 hours a day crafting, but has tons of materials funneled to him from his guild.

    You can pay for escort with goods promised ......or coin

  • naezgulnaezgul Homer Glen, ILPosts: 374Member
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by meddyck
    In DAOC, your realm gained access to DF if you controlled the most keeps (later towers). Once you got access, anybody could go in whether they were in a guild or not. Now it was true that underpopulated realms got into DF much less frequently than those with more players. For instance Mids on Gawaine complained about lack of access to DF which was mostly swapped back and forth between Albs and Hibs. That could be a serious issue if gear crafted in the Depths is the best in the game.

    Totally correct which is why it won't work this way in TD.

    One of the things I said in our backers comments and mentioned in our video, TD is alive not just a musty old dungeon. It will be an amusing, unpredictable and chaotic place. :)

    My guess is entrances will randomly open , sometimes the odds favored by a particular realms actions.......

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by taurak

    Example, if I spend 16 hours a day crafting, I should be able to craft better things than a guild crafter that spends 4 hours a day crafting, but has tons of materials funneled to him from his guild.

    I am hoping we see the ability of crafters to template their own recipes adjusted though research and trial and error. This way there is variance between crafted recipes and the best crafters could be sought out by players in a similar way as in SWG. I highly suspect something like this will happen from what has previously been mentioned. A system where time invested along with quality of materials together could help crafters make a name for themselves. Even lower tier equipement could be made a higher quality and increase demand of the product over others.

    You stay sassy!

  • HjamnrHjamnr Madison, WIPosts: 163Member

    One thing to remember, this is not a solo game.

    As a crafter, having a guild will almost be a requirement.  And as a guild, having great crafters will definately be a requirement.

    You should never really have to go down there, alone.

  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member
    Originally posted by taurak

    Yeah, I hope a solo crafter could make his way in to the "black forge of legendary awesomeness" and make a sword of "leet wtfpwnage" if its owned by your realm.

    I personally don't think that you should have to be a part of a guild to be able to achieve the status of being a legendary crafter for your realm.

    However I can already forsee that guild crafters are going to be the best crafters. Its unavoidable. Some crafters will probably be made to work as "gatherers" while the main crafter gets to use their resources to gain skill way higher than anyone else.

    There almost has to be some form of way to gain skill at crafting, though mark said you won't be makign 10,000 worthless swords to be able to create 1 good useable sword, I'm sure you won't start off with the ability to make the best items in the game at lvl 1, given your guild funnels you the materials.

     

    For me, I think it would be much more fun to roleplay as a "reclusive" crafter, who can make the best swords on the entire server, not affiliated with any guild at all, but only the other players he encounters at his home, or during gathering. Of course when the horn of war sounds, I would go to help fortify the city walls and build defensive structures too.

    I hope there will be  a way for me to do this. I don't like beign a part of an "uber guild". I've been there, done that. I want to be a part of the realm, not alienated completely, but also not a member of their guild, and still somehow have what I do matter to the realm.

    Example, if I spend 16 hours a day crafting, I should be able to craft better things than a guild crafter that spends 4 hours a day crafting, but has tons of materials funneled to him from his guild.

    Keep in mind, this is supposed to be a player driven economy.  You will, of course, need to work with other players to some extent.  I see no reason a business minded soloer couldn't accomplish this without actually being a member of an 'uber guild', though. You'll just have to figure out how to make connections and market your skills through other means.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    Also, and just like that, builders went from crafters to combat builders that make death machines and death traps! What a way to integrate them. I wonder if they are the only ones that operate their devices? If so they go from defenseless to scary nuke lethal which makes them both desired, feared, and targeted. The class that has no pvp "moves" is no the most feared and hated guy on the field, what a great dynamic!

    I can see the type now:

    "healers target builders, builders move in and start building, tanks surround builders"

    meanwhile...

    "here they come, target the healers then the builders, if they get those things built were in trouble"

    can't wait!

  • HjamnrHjamnr Madison, WIPosts: 163Member
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    Also, and just like that, builders went from crafters to combat builders that make death machines and death traps! What a way to integrate them. I wonder if they are the only ones that operate their devices? If so they go from defenseless to scary nuke lethal which makes them both desired, feared, and targeted. The class that has no pvp "moves" is no the most feared and hated guy on the field, what a great dynamic!

    I can see the type now:

    "healers target builders, builders move in and start building, tanks surround builders"

    meanwhile...

    "here they come, target the healers then the builders, if they get those things built were in trouble"

    can't wait!

    Sounds epic.  image

  • Autumnstorm27Autumnstorm27 Denmark, WIPosts: 9Member
    I think this is an amazing addition! :) I seriously can not wait!!!! :D
  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSPosts: 320Member
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    ..

    Finally someone remembered that not everyone gets a trophy!

    +1

     

  • WW4BWWW4BW KoldingPosts: 493Member
    Originally posted by meddyck
    In DAOC, your realm gained access to DF if you controlled the most keeps (later towers). Once you got access, anybody could go in whether they were in a guild or not. Now it was true that underpopulated realms got into DF much less frequently than those with more players. For instance Mids on Gawaine complained about lack of access to DF which was mostly swapped back and forth between Albs and Hibs. That could be a serious issue if gear crafted in the Depths is the best in the game.

     In DAOC though the gear from DF wasnt so great.. It was delicious salvage and easy to get, And that would in turn of course allow you to craft the best gear... But it was not impossible for the other realms to get that gear in other ways. And you could always go for a quick tower raid and then rush to DF. It didnt always work. But it was a chance for the smaller realms.

     I also wonder if you are allowed to stay inside The Depths when it changes hands though.. becasue DF was a fun place to PvP.

  • EllyaEllya leylandPosts: 99Member
    Originally posted by Tamanous
    Originally posted by taurak

    Example, if I spend 16 hours a day crafting, I should be able to craft better things than a guild crafter that spends 4 hours a day crafting, but has tons of materials funneled to him from his guild.

    I am hoping we see the ability of crafters to template their own recipes adjusted though research and trial and error. This way there is variance between crafted recipes and the best crafters could be sought out by players in a similar way as in SWG. I highly suspect something like this will happen from what has previously been mentioned. A system where time invested along with quality of materials together could help crafters make a name for themselves. Even lower tier equipement could be made a higher quality and increase demand of the product over others.

    In Andrews last tech video he mentioned that crafters would be able to customise, and make their pieces unique. It could mean that would include quality as well as appearance.

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by WW4BW
    Originally posted by meddyck
    In DAOC, your realm gained access to DF if you controlled the most keeps (later towers). Once you got access, anybody could go in whether they were in a guild or not. Now it was true that underpopulated realms got into DF much less frequently than those with more players. For instance Mids on Gawaine complained about lack of access to DF which was mostly swapped back and forth between Albs and Hibs. That could be a serious issue if gear crafted in the Depths is the best in the game.

     In DAOC though the gear from DF wasnt so great.. It was delicious salvage and easy to get, And that would in turn of course allow you to craft the best gear... But it was not impossible for the other realms to get that gear in other ways. And you could always go for a quick tower raid and then rush to DF. It didnt always work. But it was a chance for the smaller realms.

     I also wonder if you are allowed to stay inside The Depths when it changes hands though.. becasue DF was a fun place to PvP.

    I was thinking of DF very shortly after it was released back in 2002. I ran around with a purple glowing DF Prince hammer on my cleric for quite a while before something better came out.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • TroianmanTroianman Somewhere, CAPosts: 82Member
    I am hoping that in a new take on the different types of DF seals which changed as you got deeper, the great forges MJ mentioned will allow you to craft different items the deeper in said forge is located. By the same token, I hope that the various mines MJ spoke of yield different resources that change as you get deeper into the dungeon.
  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by meddyck
    In DAOC, your realm gained access to DF if you controlled the most keeps (later towers). Once you got access, anybody could go in whether they were in a guild or not. Now it was true that underpopulated realms got into DF much less frequently than those with more players. For instance Mids on Gawaine complained about lack of access to DF which was mostly swapped back and forth between Albs and Hibs. That could be a serious issue if gear crafted in the Depths is the best in the game.

    Totally correct which is why it won't work this way in TD.

    One of the things I said in our backers comments and mentioned in our video, TD is alive not just a musty old dungeon. It will be an amusing, unpredictable and chaotic place. :)

    My guess is entrances will randomly open , sometimes the odds favored by a particular realms actions.......

    I could see just alternating possession but for varying lengths of time with a minimum of like 15 minutes and maximum of an hour. IOW Arts get it for 30 minutes then TDD for 45 minutes then Vikings for 25 minutes then Arts again for an hour. Something like that would work well and be both unpredictable but not overly benefit the strongest realms.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • WW4BWWW4BW KoldingPosts: 493Member
    Originally posted by meddyck
    Originally posted by WW4BW
    Originally posted by meddyck
    In DAOC, your realm gained access to DF if you controlled the most keeps (later towers). Once you got access, anybody could go in whether they were in a guild or not. Now it was true that underpopulated realms got into DF much less frequently than those with more players. For instance Mids on Gawaine complained about lack of access to DF which was mostly swapped back and forth between Albs and Hibs. That could be a serious issue if gear crafted in the Depths is the best in the game.

     In DAOC though the gear from DF wasnt so great.. It was delicious salvage and easy to get, And that would in turn of course allow you to craft the best gear... But it was not impossible for the other realms to get that gear in other ways. And you could always go for a quick tower raid and then rush to DF. It didnt always work. But it was a chance for the smaller realms.

     I also wonder if you are allowed to stay inside The Depths when it changes hands though.. becasue DF was a fun place to PvP.

    I was thinking of DF very shortly after it was released back in 2002. I ran around with a purple glowing DF Prince hammer on my cleric for quite a while before something better came out.

     Yeah I think I will have to concede that point.. Relied a bit too much on my own memory of it. By the time I got any of the good stuff from DF,( didnt win drops the first few runs.. ) It was pretty outdated. Recon the same was true of the epic quest armors.. Not really close to being good when I got around to doing the quests.

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by WW4BW

    I was thinking of DF very shortly after it was released back in 2002. I ran around with a purple glowing DF Prince hammer on my cleric for quite a while before something better came out.

     Yeah I think I will have to concede that point.. Relied a bit too much on my own memory of it. By the time I got any of the good stuff from DF,( didnt win drops the first few runs.. ) It was pretty outdated. Recon the same was true of the epic quest armors.. Not really close to being good when I got around to doing the quests.

    Yeah DF had pretty nice gear when it first came out. Diamond seal armor was best in the game until epic armor was added a bit later.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • tenfoldedmighttenfoldedmight malmoPosts: 54Member
    Originally posted by meddyck
    Originally posted by WW4BW

    I was thinking of DF very shortly after it was released back in 2002. I ran around with a purple glowing DF Prince hammer on my cleric for quite a while before something better came out.

     Yeah I think I will have to concede that point.. Relied a bit too much on my own memory of it. By the time I got any of the good stuff from DF,( didnt win drops the first few runs.. ) It was pretty outdated. Recon the same was true of the epic quest armors.. Not really close to being good when I got around to doing the quests.

    Yeah DF had pretty nice gear when it first came out. Diamond seal armor was best in the game until epic armor was added a bit later.

    Still remember my runemasters Epic gear, all silver and shit! Hehe but man those quests where a pain to get through.

    Going to be very interesting to see what lies in store for us in CU!

  • WW4BWWW4BW KoldingPosts: 493Member
    Originally posted by tenfoldedmight
    Originally posted by meddyck
    Originally posted by WW4BW

    I was thinking of DF very shortly after it was released back in 2002. I ran around with a purple glowing DF Prince hammer on my cleric for quite a while before something better came out.

     Yeah I think I will have to concede that point.. Relied a bit too much on my own memory of it. By the time I got any of the good stuff from DF,( didnt win drops the first few runs.. ) It was pretty outdated. Recon the same was true of the epic quest armors.. Not really close to being good when I got around to doing the quests.

    Yeah DF had pretty nice gear when it first came out. Diamond seal armor was best in the game until epic armor was added a bit later.

    Still remember my runemasters Epic gear, all silver and shit! Hehe but man those quests where a pain to get through.

    Going to be very interesting to see what lies in store for us in CU!

     I only got my first level 50 around Shrouded Isles.. or maybe a bit before but thats when I started getting the good gear.. and by then diamond gear and even epic gear, were sub par to SI drops and 99% crafted and spellcrafted gear.

  • tleartlear Toronto, ONPosts: 142Member
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by meddyck
    In DAOC, your realm gained access to DF if you controlled the most keeps (later towers). Once you got access, anybody could go in whether they were in a guild or not. Now it was true that underpopulated realms got into DF much less frequently than those with more players. For instance Mids on Gawaine complained about lack of access to DF which was mostly swapped back and forth between Albs and Hibs. That could be a serious issue if gear crafted in the Depths is the best in the game.

    Totally correct which is why it won't work this way in TD.

    One of the things I said in our backers comments and mentioned in our video, TD is alive not just a musty old dungeon. It will be an amusing, unpredictable and chaotic place. :)

    Consider this again Mark. In DAOC goal of posessing DF brought the whole realm together in many cases. On my server for almost 8 month Mids formed an allaince  that was focused solely on holding DF. This is how we managed to be the only Mid realm that had the most lvl 50 population on the server. We used DF to attract new players to level up as mids. BORS forever :)

     

    Do not amke it purely random, it would REALLY suck. Hold territory or soemthing simillar

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