This is what bugs me, I'm not excited by the notion of a doac 2 by any stretch, what I want is TES style questing, lore, etcc.. That I can experience with friends, I'll PVP in sandbox games or some FFA systems, but in themeparks not so much, too arbitrary, too guided... not enough player ownership to care, etc...
To think as you do is just completely short-sighted.
TESO is being designed AROUND RvRvR though so to think as you do is just completely short-sighted because you are defending it just because of the TES name being tagged on it and even stating you are not going to take part in the PvP because its too arbitrary and guided...wow, the entire BASE game, but you are still going to defend it just because the name is TES...talk about crazy.
So again, it falls back to what so many are saying just in this thread let alone on EVERY single TES based website...if this didnt have the name TES, would anyone think it was ripping the gameplay off? No. because it doesnt even remotely try to, everything about the TES games was changed to fit standard MMO gameplay, gameplay that has the genre rooted in a whole lot of MEH. Now a TES sandbox open world game, that, that would be REFRESHING to the genre.
I've acknowledged the RvR focus of this title, I've acknowledged in other threads, that PVP especially a homage to DAOC is an odd choice for this games focus. With that said an RVR focus really doesn't mean bad PVE options... if such a stance is "defending" something I guess I am. But hey what I've seen and heard from the PVE side of things has me interested, maybe I have some sort of entitlement issue because I like to play what interests me. If so my bad...
As for PVE being "guided",.. supposedly it's not in many ways, but we'll see.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I maybe stubborn or limited in my view on this faction system but TESO with seprate factions and alot of themeaprk will never appeal to me it will never be a TES game nomatter how hard they try giving us felling its TES traditional mmo.
Again i repeat should have been sandbox with ZERO instance and open ended world with open fanctional pvp everywhere.
I leave this to new genration who wanne play this fake TES game.
And why cant Mario still be fixing pipes? Forget this side scrolling idea where he saves his girlfriend Peach. You know what lets rewind everything and go back to 8 bit graphics. Thats how TES started. Lets rewind WoW and have it only be a RTS. By your standard we would miss out on a lot of great games that started from something else.
What? So confused. WTB more logic.
Replying to what you said in red. Games grow and change and just because the single player game had it does not mean its needs to be in the MMO. Sure over all it needs to feel like TES. It must have story and lore to fit but Locked factions does not break this game. Just like any video game that started out as a RTS or a single player RPG. When it makes a jump into 3D or a MMO or any other medium. Its time for change to fit that. Just like a book made into a movie it cant keep all the same elements.
Except they could keep all the same elements and give you what you want at the same time, but they choose not to. Everyone could be happy here, they CHOOSE not to do it, not that it can't be done.
Thats what kills me from people on your side of this. You think you speak for all TES fans and you dont. I am a HUGE TES fan. Been playing them from the days of 8 Bit games. As a TES fan I LOVE this current design. At best if they remade the game there would be a different set of fans who would be happy and another set that would be upset.
Foodle just ignore them, you're not gonna change their mind because they have an agenda which is clear as hell. We all know that there are millions of TES fans looking forward to ESO as evident by the Facebook likes (over a million) tons of positive feedback since the 1st press event in October, many more positive hype since Pax. Not to mention the myriad of supportive and eager fans on very popular websites like TESOF and Tamriel Foundry and the many Podcasts which get rave reviews.
Just trying to support the devs in what they have done. Want them to know there are some fans out here who love what they are doing. =-)
If this game end game uses a non raid format to get the best gear, then I'll play. But as a current subscriber of WOW I honestly don't see myself raiding again for the best gear, no matter how great the game is. tired of the politics
And why cant Mario still be fixing pipes? Forget this side scrolling idea where he saves his girlfriend Peach. You know what lets rewind everything and go back to 8 bit graphics. Thats how TES started. Lets rewind WoW and have it only be a RTS. By your standard we would miss out on a lot of great games that started from something else.
What? So confused. WTB more logic.
Replying to what you said in red. Games grow and change and just because the single player game had it does not mean its needs to be in the MMO. Sure over all it needs to feel like TES. It must have story and lore to fit but Locked factions does not break this game. Just like any video game that started out as a RTS or a single player RPG. When it makes a jump into 3D or a MMO or any other medium. Its time for change to fit that. Just like a book made into a movie it cant keep all the same elements.
Except they could keep all the same elements and give you what you want at the same time, but they choose not to. Everyone could be happy here, they CHOOSE not to do it, not that it can't be done.
Thats what kills me from people on your side of this. You think you speak for all TES fans and you dont. I am a HUGE TES fan. Been playing them from the days of 8 Bit games. As a TES fan I LOVE this current design. At best if they remade the game there would be a different set of fans who would be happy and another set that would be upset.
Foodle just ignore them, you're not gonna change their mind because they have an agenda which is clear as hell. We all know that there are millions of TES fans looking forward to ESO as evident by the Facebook likes (over a million) tons of positive feedback since the 1st press event in October, many more positive hype since Pax. Not to mention the myriad of supportive and eager fans on very popular websites like TESOF and Tamriel Foundry and the many Podcasts which get rave reviews.
Just trying to support the devs in what they have done. Want them to know there are some fans out here who love what they are doing. =-)
I can respect that, Nan. I am doing the very same, letting the devs know that I care about their game and like whatI've seen so far, except that I also point out what I don't like and how it would keep me from playing it. The others who feel like me are also giving suggestions how they think changes could be made that allow for more options and will in the end reach more fans of TES.
Dismissing them simply as fanatics, as having an evil agenda that shall destroy the game, etc. is easy.
Acknowledging that they have a different view on ESO and be done with it seems a lot harder, for some reason
Originally posted by Xstatic912 If this game end game uses a non raid format to get the best gear, then I'll play. But as a current subscriber of WOW I honestly don't see myself raiding again for the best gear, no matter how great the game is. tired of the politics
Originally posted by Vorthanion Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by VorthanionOriginally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by jtcgs Didnt need to read past "Coincidence? Probably not." to know this is just an article being written due to MONEY being given to them. There isnt a single person, not even hardcore DaoC fans that can argue that it is not a coincidence because THERE ARE NO DAOC FACTIONS LOCKED BEHIND AN INVISIBLE WALL clones out there, no one but the makers of that game thought it was a good enough idea to do it in another game...Coincidence? Duh.No amount of articles is going to change the minds of the TES fans that have been arguing against this crap move on every single TES site, its a small box being made for a game meant for an open world. Deal with that fact, and the fact you are not going to change the minds of those pissed off with anything less than a TES MMO with an open world.
They will deal with it by sleeping on beds made of soft, cushy money. Seriously. It won't be like that cheap, paper money we get. It will be soft and fluffy and it will sing them to sleep at night. People make a big deal out of the 'ideals' behind games, and whether they are 'true' MMOs, 'true' TES games (true 'SW' games), etc., but it's the basic game mechanics that kill the games. Are the environments static, or do they look lively? Is there plenty of content at release covering linear, repeatable and nonlinear activities? Do all the buttons work? Do the graphics look good and consistent? If they get all the basic gaming stuff nailed down, the rules that aren't like the single player games won't matter that much. It sounds like they've gotten the basics nailed down. At least I haven't seen any complaints about that stuff yet. The recurring complaint is that the game won't be like the single player games. Well, yeah. It's an MMO. It won't be anything like the single player games. ** edit ** I think of it like this. They could write it using the "Man With The Iron Fists" method, where they try to be just like the predecessors, and fail. "Man With The Iron Fists" tries to recreate old Kung Fu movies and tries too hard to be too much like those old Kung Fu movies. It's just bad. The other method is the "Evil Dead" method, where the people making the movie make a movie that stands on its own, but references enough of the predecessor that you know where it's coming from. If you've never seen the predecessor, and don't care about it, you still get a good product, but if you've seen the predecessor, the movie is even better. It sounds like Zenimax is going with the "Evil Dead" method, which doesn't guarantee success, but it at least avoids the guaranteed failure of the "Man With The Iron Fists" method. I could imagine boat loads more money if they focused more on the Elder Scrolls side of the game than they do the Dark Age of Camelot side. Actually, I don't have to imagine, we know the relative sales of DAoC and the Elder Scrolls games, don't we. Even more so if they allow for fully realized end game PvE that lets you play and progress without having to do a single bit of PvP. Well of course you can imagine it that way. Why would you imagine it in a way that doesn't support your point of view? That doesn't even make sense. There are single player RPG that sold worse than DAoC and those games did not have PvP. The argument that writing TESO without PvP or without three faction PvP would result in greater sales isn't a good one. For one, it involves changing history (rewriting TESO) to support the argument. I do agree about the PvE for long term players. Having a PvP focus is going to limit the audience and as dynamic as PvP can be, it gets repetitive. I would love to see a really good PvE focused end game. I don't really think I'll see it, but I'd like to. For that matter, I'd like to see more of a sandbox focus in a game with the budget that TESO has. I don't think I'll see it, but I'd like to. Anyway, their money is going to make them happy. The game will follow the same sales and retention arcs as pretty much every other video game, but it's going to make them boatloads of money. Again, this is assuming they get the basic game mechanics down pat. If something like their version of talent trees is copied from WoW, and doesn't work right, none of the other stuff in the game really matters. You're the one not making sense. The point is that DAoC did not sell that many boxes in comparison to even the lowest rated ES game. PvP was not my factor in that, it is merely the numbers, period. Which audience has the potential to make them more money, RvR fanatics or ES fanatics? I'd say the numbers are pretty darn obvious.
Every MMO aside from maybe WoW sold fewer copies than TES. It doesn't make sense to single out DAoC when every MMO bar one had the same performance relative to TES regardless of the game mechanics used in those MMOs. You're saying that the RvR of DAoC lead to DAoC having a weaker sales record than TES. That's a bad argument. If you're going to go on about sales, then it would make a more sense to say TESO will struggle because it's an MMO and because it's a single platform game, not because it has game mechanics from DAoC. It would even make some sense to say that the game will struggle because the game play is a divergence from TES game play. Though, that gets into the game struggling because it's an MMO since being an MMO is the reason behind the game play being different from the existing TES games.
You're assuming that "RvR Fanatics" and "ES Fanatics" are two separate groups of people. You're also assuming that the "Fanatics" are the biggest portion of both of those audiences. If two million of the many millions of people who play the TES games shrug about TESO being an MMO and shrug about the RvR, then none of the differences with TES matter and none of the similarities to DAoC matter. The only thing that matters is how well they execute their product. Given the recent history of MMOs, that's going to be their biggest hurdle.
They're still going to make a boatload of money. It doesn't matter if they might make more money by avoiding DAoC mechanics, because to prove that point you'd need to revise history by writing TESO without DAoC mechanics. This can't happen so even making the argument is pointless. Just because it's "obvious" to you doesn't mean it's obvious to reality in general.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
I've acknowledged the RvR focus of this title, I've acknowledged in other threads, that PVP especially a homage to DAOC is an odd choice for this games focus. With that said an RVR focus really doesn't mean bad PVE options... if such a stance is "defending" something I guess I am. But hey what I've seen and heard from the PVE side of things has me interested, maybe I have some sort of entitlement issue because I like to play what interests me. If so my bad...
As for PVE being "guided",.. supposedly it's not in many ways, but we'll see.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I maybe stubborn or limited in my view on this faction system but TESO with seprate factions and alot of themeaprk will never appeal to me it will never be a TES game nomatter how hard they try giving us felling its TES traditional mmo.
Again i repeat should have been sandbox with ZERO instance and open ended world with open fanctional pvp everywhere.
I leave this to new genration who wanne play this fake TES game.
Just trying to support the devs in what they have done. Want them to know there are some fans out here who love what they are doing. =-)
I can respect that, Nan. I am doing the very same, letting the devs know that I care about their game and like whatI've seen so far, except that I also point out what I don't like and how it would keep me from playing it. The others who feel like me are also giving suggestions how they think changes could be made that allow for more options and will in the end reach more fans of TES.
Dismissing them simply as fanatics, as having an evil agenda that shall destroy the game, etc. is easy.
Acknowledging that they have a different view on ESO and be done with it seems a lot harder, for some reason
Then you will like this game as it stands now.
I could imagine boat loads more money if they focused more on the Elder Scrolls side of the game than they do the Dark Age of Camelot side. Actually, I don't have to imagine, we know the relative sales of DAoC and the Elder Scrolls games, don't we. Even more so if they allow for fully realized end game PvE that lets you play and progress without having to do a single bit of PvP.
Well of course you can imagine it that way. Why would you imagine it in a way that doesn't support your point of view? That doesn't even make sense. There are single player RPG that sold worse than DAoC and those games did not have PvP. The argument that writing TESO without PvP or without three faction PvP would result in greater sales isn't a good one. For one, it involves changing history (rewriting TESO) to support the argument. I do agree about the PvE for long term players. Having a PvP focus is going to limit the audience and as dynamic as PvP can be, it gets repetitive. I would love to see a really good PvE focused end game. I don't really think I'll see it, but I'd like to. For that matter, I'd like to see more of a sandbox focus in a game with the budget that TESO has. I don't think I'll see it, but I'd like to. Anyway, their money is going to make them happy. The game will follow the same sales and retention arcs as pretty much every other video game, but it's going to make them boatloads of money. Again, this is assuming they get the basic game mechanics down pat. If something like their version of talent trees is copied from WoW, and doesn't work right, none of the other stuff in the game really matters.
You're the one not making sense. The point is that DAoC did not sell that many boxes in comparison to even the lowest rated ES game. PvP was not my factor in that, it is merely the numbers, period. Which audience has the potential to make them more money, RvR fanatics or ES fanatics? I'd say the numbers are pretty darn obvious.
Every MMO aside from maybe WoW sold fewer copies than TES. It doesn't make sense to single out DAoC when every MMO bar one had the same performance relative to TES regardless of the game mechanics used in those MMOs. You're saying that the RvR of DAoC lead to DAoC having a weaker sales record than TES. That's a bad argument. If you're going to go on about sales, then it would make a more sense to say TESO will struggle because it's an MMO and because it's a single platform game, not because it has game mechanics from DAoC. It would even make some sense to say that the game will struggle because the game play is a divergence from TES game play. Though, that gets into the game struggling because it's an MMO since being an MMO is the reason behind the game play being different from the existing TES games.
You're assuming that "RvR Fanatics" and "ES Fanatics" are two separate groups of people. You're also assuming that the "Fanatics" are the biggest portion of both of those audiences. If two million of the many millions of people who play the TES games shrug about TESO being an MMO and shrug about the RvR, then none of the differences with TES matter and none of the similarities to DAoC matter. The only thing that matters is how well they execute their product. Given the recent history of MMOs, that's going to be their biggest hurdle.
They're still going to make a boatload of money. It doesn't matter if they might make more money by avoiding DAoC mechanics, because to prove that point you'd need to revise history by writing TESO without DAoC mechanics. This can't happen so even making the argument is pointless. Just because it's "obvious" to you doesn't mean it's obvious to reality in general.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.