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Originally posted by Leiloni Originally posted by Vorthanion
The problem is that PvPers are never happy unless PvP is central to the game. Otherwise, they whine about PvP being tacked on as an afterthought, when they should be happy to get any at all.
No, we shouldn't. Most MMO's are PvE centric with PvP tacked on and it does not work for players who prefer PvP. We deserve a few PvP centric games when most are PvE centric, don't we? Why shouldn't we get a game that we enjoy as well? How would you feel if the tables were turned and the majority of your gameplay from level 1 onward was PvP only with a tacked on PvE instance as a mere side game?
This, and herro Leiloni didnt expect to see you here.
I voted for full loot PvP. I'm still waiting for a decent development studio to do it right again. But right now PvE is the main focus of every game that has been released except a select few in the past decade or so. Shadowbane, DAoC, MO and DF come to mind. The only decent one out of those was DAoC. Shadowbane had potential but it just didn't pick up for obvious reasons. MO and DF are just broken games that should never of been attempted by such terrible studios.
PvPers deserve a decent PvP game and if ESO is that game then so be it. Tired of going on forums and watching all the PvEers complain because everything under the sun isn't catered to their spoiled little asses (this isn't directed at anyone in particular obviously).
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Here's my question - why are so many PvEers on this website so anti PvP? Why is there so much hatred for it? Most PVPers I know not only tolerate PvE, they enjoy it and participate in it at endgame levels in most of their MMO's. We just happen to also enjoy PvP quite a bit. Why are PvPers more tolerant than the supposedly nice and sweet and friendly PvE crowd? HMM?
Exactly. You've also hit on one of the key underlying themes in this forum that is liberally sprinkled throughout most of the complaints. The difference is only in how willing they are to admit to their pvp intolerance.
Some even claim to like PvP but everything they say is about how PvE is "suffering" at the hands of the PvP crowd...all this before they've played one minute of this game's PvE.
Originally posted by Iselin Although I appreciate your intervention and attempt at pay-back humor (Iseling... I do believe I once referred to a thread getting sapphened) just follow the bouncing ball and notice the tone and style of the posts preceding the one you've quoted...if you can be objective that is. Notice that he even played the "you must be new to gaming" cliched gaming credential card. It's all there in black and white....I'll wait.
We all have our moments of card dealing, I can't judge either of you. Just a friendly reminder that it's okay to have different ideas.
Originally posted by sapphen Originally posted by Iselin Although I appreciate your intervention and attempt at pay-back humor (Iseling... I do believe I once referred to a thread getting sapphened) just follow the bouncing ball and notice the tone and style of the posts preceding the one you've quoted...if you can be objective that is. Notice that he even played the "you must be new to gaming" cliched gaming credential card. It's all there in black and white....I'll wait.
That we can agree on.
No,I don't like any type of pvp beside rvr/faction vs faction etc and I find a pve only game boring(in LOTRO I spent a lot of time in monster area because it was the only pvp available,so much that I lost interest in leveling my free people character)
It's my experience that both extreme PvE players and extreme PvP players are no different in how they argue their points. Most people want a game tailored to their tastes. To say PvPers or PvEers are more or less tolerant is biased I could for example pull out countless threads about how games should be purely PvP as PvE is stale and boring and no fun and PvE players ruin PvP. The reality is most people couldn't care less as long as the game is fun and has choice. Besides I thought this forum in general was one of the most vocal sandbox PvP community I have seen in a while.
There are also a few PvP games, though they don't generally do as well in the market as PvE centric games and as such tend to have content added to attract the PvE playerbase. Maybe this will change in the future, who knows. However for more PvP focused games to get funding it needs to be shown that the model has an attractive userbase and support given, something that has only happened in limited numbers in general (for various reasons).
"Winning" at EVE Online since May, 2007!
In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
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Yeah, I'd like the idea of the game more if it focused on a million different things before 3 faction large scale PvP. Zergy PvP, even when there are secondary objectives to complete with smaller groups, is my least favorite form of PvP. To me, Zenimax is taking my favorite IP and focusing the game around my least favorite form of PvP.
I think I've finally decided to just take a pass on this one until perhaps a month or two after release when I can see the community's reaction to it.
Originally posted by Leiloni Here's my question - why are so many PvEers on this website so anti PvP? Why is there so much hatred for it? Most PVPers I know not only tolerate PvE, they enjoy it and participate in it at endgame levels in most of their MMO's. We just happen to also enjoy PvP quite a bit. Why are PvPers more tolerant than the supposedly nice and sweet and friendly PvE crowd? HMM?
I think your first qusetion is easily answered. I would even ask you to solve it yourself.
And "no" pvp'ers aren't all tolerant of pve.
Heck, I remember several more "pro-pvp'ers" in an alliance I was in who constantly complained when the alliance did raids.
Originally posted by Iselin Originally posted by Vorthanion Originally posted by Iselin Originally posted by Vorthanion Originally posted by Iselin Originally posted by Vorthanion ...and this one is still in development and the developer is obviously open to criticism and feedback as is evident with the recent level 50 exploration changes.
Yes. Let's go over to the Archeage forum and demand a themepark.
More power to you. I'm not the one trying to suppress opinions here.
And I'm not the one trying to criticize other's opinions dismissively and aggresively.
I can keep this up all day if you wish.
Honey, you have been aggressive and dismissive at one point or another in all of these topics about ESO. Seriously, do you think we are blind to it?
I never once said you are any of those who believe as you do as wrong. What is wrong is the focus on game elements that are detrimental to the ES experience, as in detrimental to ES fans. You come from a perspective that is PvP centric and pro-DAoC and we merely think it should have a lesser focus than it does.
I prefer RvR but I voted on OWPvP...however I would have to be convinced that the game mechanics were done right.
If there was no PvP whatsoever I wouldn't be interested. I might be interested in a co-op version I could play with friends though.
I'm curious, other than the recently made up lore from Zenimax which conflicts with ES cannon, where do you get the impression that the Elder Scrolls series is or should be focused on PvP? If anything, the game should focus on politics as only one of the games (Skyrim) had any warring factions and it was skirmish type stuff at best. If anything is going to claim to be ES or the spiritual successor of the ES series, then it needs to embrace the largest aspects of it, which is an open world, open skill system, in depth crafting system, main story line quests, class based guilds, any race any faction, side quests and exploration enticing points of interest.
Originally posted by evilastroWithout the realm combat, I would probably play it for a month or two and then get bored, much like SWTOR. I need good PvP to keep me interested in a game long term.
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
The Deep Web is sca-ry.
Originally posted by Vorthanion Originally posted by Iselin Originally posted by Vorthanion Originally posted by Iselin Originally posted by azzamasin No because the game would be to one-dimensional. I'd still play it but I would get burnt out of doing the same stuff and would likely find myself quitting after the first month or 2. There jsut wont be enough content to satiate the average gamer. Hence the reason why I continue to support the AvA style conflict ontop of an amazing Elder Scrolls Experience.
You are either new to the genre or new to the world of gaming sites, as the PvP fanatics have been around and complaining since the days I started playing EverQuest back in 1999. Although I know it had been going on even before that with UO and the whole Trammel affair, but I didn't learn about that till I started lurking other boards besides those for EQ.
whats hilarious is PVE exclusive players are the same exact way. they whine that pvp is in their pve game and if an expansion comes out that is pvp focused in any way, they whine about that too.
a lot of gamers are quite selfish, you see that a lot on these forums especially.
a lot of them just want a game that is catered exactly for them or what their vision that game should be like and if it isn't? it sucks and will be a total failure and they spend all their time hating on it and wishing for it to "fail"
i see that attitude a lot around here, its very cancerous to the community IMO
Originally posted by LeiloniHere's my question - why are so many PvEers on this website so anti PvP? Why is there so much hatred for it? Most PVPers I know not only tolerate PvE, they enjoy it and participate in it at endgame levels in most of their MMO's. We just happen to also enjoy PvP quite a bit. Why are PvPers more tolerant than the supposedly nice and sweet and friendly PvE crowd? HMM?
I have been in PvP duels with friends and laughed at the weird and wild things we all did, not caring if I won (rare occurrence) or lost (the usual outcome). It was about another form of fun. Many PvPers are all about win at all costs and the fun gets sucked out of it for me.
In alliance vs alliance PvP, I just have no interest. It is much too chaotic for me, similar to giving 1000s of players clubs and letting them go at each other non-stop. Some smaller organized groups may form and be somewhat successful, but the overall feel is mass confusion. I understand that many players enjoy this kind of gameplay. It's just not my cup of tea.
I wonder how AvAvA in TES would work if they threw in friendly fire. That could draw me in as care and strategy would now factor into the picture. Does the Mage throw that fireball into the melee? If the opponents outnumber the allies, maybe...
I guess when all is said and done, it doesn't matter much. A player dies on the battlefield and they just have to run a little ways to get back into the battle. There is NO battlefield casualties. If a player finds the opposing player that is kind of organizing their team, there is nothing they can do to take that "organizer" out of the game and cripple their side.
Now, if Cyrodiil had actual battles, where players were kicked out of it when they died until the battle was decided, then another battle started from the last one left off with different players, I would be interested. Instead, it will be one long, never-ending battle with infinite opponents and allies vying for a minute or two of superiority at any given point. Log out when you need to go to bed or work and log back in later there will be very little changed when you left. Some things may have changed while you were gone, but eventually, nothing really ever changes. In the end, I just don't find this at all compelling for me.
Again, this is just my take on PvP. Your mileage may vary
How they implement pvp will be a determining factor if I play the game or not. I would rather there be a pve only option, and if I have to pvp then I probably won't play the game.
It's not the only factor though. The payment model, class design, combat, crafting and progression among other things also matter. It's the whole package, but any of them, especially pvp could be a dealbreaker for me.
Originally posted by TorvaldrHow they implement pvp will be a determining factor if I play the game or not. I would rather there be a pve only option, and if I have to pvp then I probably won't play the game.It's not the only factor though. The payment model, class design, combat, crafting and progression among other things also matter. It's the whole package, but any of them, especially pvp could be a dealbreaker for me.
well i can tell you right now you will not be forced to pvp as it is segregated from the rest of the world.
not sure about your other concerns but the crafting sounds very interesting to me personally.
mmo progression/endgame is probably the biggest question mark right now with this game (especially if you don't want to pvp), at least in my opinion.
Originally posted by meddyck Without AvA, this would for me be a generic fantasy MMO based on an IP from other games I didn't play using mechanics I dislike (limited hotbar skills, no targeted healing). So no I wouldn't be thinking twice about it if it didn't have AvA.