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Do all players start over
vtravi
Member UncommonPosts: 398
When the game comes does everyone start at level 1, like a brand new game or do the old players keep their levels
Comments
There are version 1.0 servers and brand new servers where only new players can create characters.
If you have a lvl 50 from 1.0, you can only transfer it to designated servers with other 1.0 players. You cannot transfer your character to a server designated for "new" people. The reason is quite obvious... it would give the older legacy placers a very big advantage over new players. I have a lot of classes capped and especially crafting classes. Older players can set the market and make a kiling while newer players will have a very difficult time competing.
That's why it's designed to be fair. You can "choose" to be on a server with legacy (1.0) players, but you go in knowing that you may be behind... or you can start fresh with everyone else and be on equal footing.
P2P - it may change 6 months to a year later. But if the game is a commercial success, it will never go Free to Play. Most Final Fantasy fans prefer it to be P2P because they want constant content as opposed to content+cash shop items. My 2 cents.
Look at the stickied thread at the top of this forum.
There will be two server types. "A" and "B".
Old Characters can only select "B" type servers and transfer there.
New Characters can be created on "A" and "B" servers.
so "A" servers will be only for new people.
From what I understand, all characters from 1.0 will be carried over.
Don't quote me on that though
Sharess Dragonstar - Midgard
Grievance is recruiting.
I agree with the "fair" assessment in terms of everyone starting from level 1. Though as a whole, people who have 18 hours a day to play a game will own the economy of new servers, without established players there to help regulate it. If you start just a few days late and have that sort of time, you'll behind the cutting edge; if you're casual and only play a few days, you'll likely not be able to afford anything as everyone will be vying for that common piece of armor up for sale on the auction house. Crafting will cost millions to level due to lack of resources to go around, nodes will be taken up, and as a whole your typical RPG where power gamers rule for months will occur.
On the other side if you start on an old server the game might be a little too easy. With established players, the game isn't all about getting as powerful as you can as fast as you can and screw other people and the community, but rather is quite the opposite. It's all about community and being "neighborly" to new players and old alike. You will likely get free items (the same that would cost an arm and a leg on a fresh server) just by asking, or at the very least at whole sale ( I and my shell did this frequently to help new players in 1.0). You will also likely become "raid ready" five times faster on existing servers as you will have a lot of people there and willing to help you get there (in addition to being able to manipulate existing players who don't want to gather, and there won't be as great a struggle to get resources to sell to existing players or level with); this is especially true as there are no PvP servers, but rather (as mentioned in live letters, letters from the producer, interviews, etc.) there will be BG like battlegrounds and a RvRvR type of system in place between the three city states.
http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/04/12/interview-naoki-yoshida-final-fantasy-xiv/
So it really depends on what is most important to you in an MMO:
Is it going solo and struggling, being a part of a community that is for itself and just wants to become powerful
or
Is an MMO just about the community to you; is it a social game?
Both servers will eventually become identical, it's just one will be more stressful than the other as power gamers (and people who are in beta / from 1.0 who intend to start over just to employ their secrets) control you, elitists will want other elitists for top tier content since most won't be able to afford good gear and a disconnect from the community will likely happen when such is highly unlikely from the niche 1.0 community that was very oriented around itself (1.0 characters will also be able to transfer a few months down the line if they want).
It's much like what we are seeing in Age of Wushu. While that game is purely PvP, the people who have 18 hours spend their time owning those who do not. You have to spend hours or weeks trying to unlock flying (etc.). Whereas on long term servers, you have less people like that (though there are always some bad apples), communities that teach you, and you are able to get flying with just a few silver as a whole without going through all that trouble. In the end, when everyone has it, I would consider that a waste of time as I am where I would've been anyway (but it's subject to one's personal preference).
So while one could say that everyone starting fresh is fair, is true at the deepest core of things, the reality is that it wil be far from fair if you're a casual player. The only real difference is if you want a hard experience (new servers) with people only out for themselves and who don't really want to talk to you, or and easy experience (existing) where community is the most important thing to people and players will go out of their way to help you in a lot of cases.
If you believe that a community is the byproduct of what it grows up from, then it's likely you will get more "bad apples" on fresh servers whereas, while existing servers will be easier at start (a bad thing for some people), it will much more likely be a more rich experience when you start playing end game with a group of people who are used to being very social and working together within the game.
Yeavin,
You are making the assumption that people coming into the game for the first time have no experience playing in groups or coordinating with other people.
You are also making the assumption that those who played 1.0 all knew each other and will be forming within the same guild/LS/FC.
It's a game.. have fun with it. If you get behind.. so what? It's not the same as being behind on a mortgage payment.
Perhaps it is that I am too overanalytical when it comes to the prospects of a game, and the stupendous research of it and other games that have been released in technically the similar fashion. But an assumption is the cousin of an educated guess, and everything I've said has been reciprocated by a myriad of other people from various sources including the people I personally know in the FFXIV community. The above was a scenario of the most likely occurance for those who like to take their game seriously, or do proper research before acquiring or playing a game so that they are best prepared. It is not intended for those who simply just want to jump in for simple and good old fashion fun without regards to "difficulty" level of said game.
As for making an assumption that people are coming in for the first time; it is a correct one to make, but not one I tried to pass along. There will in fact be many people who have never played the first game, and the second has changed so tremendously that anyone who has not played the Alpha/Beta will also technically be playing for the first time. My entirely debatable philosophy on the matter (or educated guess, if you will) is based on speaking with many people from my old server as well as several FFXIV community base websites. In it, there were many who were going to play together as they did in the past, and quite a lot who are still doing the same, but going to a new server in which to dominate the economy with their beta knowledge and past FFXIV teamwork. There will be no stopping these individuals, some of which I know personally, who have vast experience with crafting linkshells. New servers are like candy to them, and it's just a highly likely outcome that every new server will have groups like this or highly capable players who have done their homework; to them things like this is the fun of that game.
They mainly do this because it will likely be too hard to manipulate the economy in an existing server, simply because there are so many rogue elements and max level crafters who are ready to bring prices down. I belong to a linkshell myself that have made sure 1-49 gear was a low as possible while also providing ample return of income for those who buy their materials from the auction house (something that new players one existing servers will be able to take advantage of, depending on how resource gathering is handled on ARR and limited nodes; there will definitely be less competition as half the community will be too lazy to do this themselves and there will be less gatherers running around). We also showed the ropes, gave away free 1-30 gear (or whole saled it at times) to people who simply asked. There will be no such regulators from people who know a game inside and out, have practice working together for a common goal, and have the time to execute such designs. It is likely that even normal power gamers will be at their mercy, where ever such groups land (and if not, such power gamers will be top dogs) in terms of the economy.
Now here's an absolute assumption only backed by existing games:
I'm not too concerned with finding groups as there is the Duty Finder, though end game will likely be exclusive to the elite of the economy on new servers who expect the most expensive and top gear available for a while.
Here's a situational report on likely outcomes (based on opinions and looking at what exists):
It will be highly likely that getting items and gear will be much easier on existing servers due to the educated guesses above, as items will be in abundance from people testing out new crafts at the start, and much less competition to either buy them (where as everyone who is new will be wanting the same items), and more capacity and means to acquire the reagents needed to facilitate proper synthesis and even melding materia into the item's sockets. It is no secret that by Starting on an existing server on Age of Wushu, you were able to fly by many obstacles that took weeks otherwise when those servers were new. The main offputing factor of thise was world pvp, which FFXIV is devoid of. So it is definitely a choice one might want to be aware of when starting a new character.
Traditionally, new games spawn a wide range of gamers, most of who just want to get more powerful. If nothing is set in place to bring them together in various ways, the community will be strickly on a soloist mindset. To get somewhere as fast as possible, to get that next level, to grind out that new item of gear and so forth. The auction house will likely not be a factor for many for the first couple days or even weeks, simply because of it inevitably being a seller's market. History has shown otherwise for the current FFXIV communities that I've been a part of (limited to two servers worth of experience, and a small segment of players from all different servers via communications on forums and elsewhere).
The old community is very tight, as most niche games were. Most everyone I knew on my servers helped whenever possible, and sought out new players to show them the ropes and get them started (as it was a difficult game to understand). While A Realm Reborn seeks to solve many of the troubling issues, many will still be all about the community, as that's what it was about for the past two years prior. Personally I only leveled crafting in the first version; paladin was the only class that I maxed out in terms of combat classes. Getting to max level, or perhaps even rushing things was not my style. Yet, I still have tremendeous fun due to the community, and with most players (they have their own reasons and rightfully so) going to new servers, all of these variables and the whole "must get stronger" personality that becomes of MMO gamers will likely take hold of most.
My (our) thoughts on this are just intended for those who seek them out; the opinions of those who have played before them and those who will continue to play. If I entered a game under these circumstances, I would seek what the game is about, and where the best communities were and what to expect from them if I played on one of their servers. Most of this spews forth from a talk I have had with a few friends who want to play the game. They weren't aware the game will have new servers, simply that the new version of the game was going to be out this year. As such they then asked me about old servers, and I informed them of the new. I showed them a few old videos, what I new about the old and public information of the new, and they ultimately decided that the older servers were a best fit with their playstyle. They will be able to get gear much easier, make money faster and as a whole progress at their own pace (some of which are very fast levelers).
There will likely be old playing in the new (as stated before), but that does not magically give them the power to help others when they themselves are struggling to get by (but to them it's the thrill). There will also be a new economy with old servers with the existing gil base cut to 1/10th of what it was when the game went down (if you had 1,000,000 gil you now have 100,000). In addition there will be changes to materia and melding (and new bind to soul elements for items that have 1 experience or more on them).
As far as my assumption that all who used to play will know each other and be buddy budy, I wasn't aware I was making such an assertion. Though from my experience in game, with the existing communities, I have been able to make friends simply by saying "hi" and or getting helped by someone on the field (or helping them). Indeed, I have not met a bad apple in game save for one or two "trolls" that people just rolled their eyes at on the lodestone website. There will be many factors to consider when thinking of what community will exist in each; the new, of whom did not play through 1.0, will find that it's likely a less strenuous game and more solo capable. I personally would imagine a lot of the WoW crowd, as that game is so big that many have played it (and few of them actually stuck with 1.0).
Let's take a look at FFXI and how it was said to have a great community when the game first came out. Some would say that it is because of difficulty, along with forced grouping for maximum experience. In fact, it was almost impossible to level up past 12 without Valkurn Dunes (or equivalent). Many power gamers or people who weren't social were quickly snuffed out; people who were rude would find themselves on ignore / do not invite lists (unless they were a WHM or BRD). It was through hardship and teamwork that the community became a great one -- many such elements that existed in the first game, and spawned the community therein (in fact, I'd say FFXIV was more difficult the first year simple because of all the restricting systems).
What do we have now that Abyssea was released and everyone could get to level 99 from one in two days? People who rarely talk to each other, quite a few bad apples, parties that are full BLM (or whatever) and people who just want the next piece of candy without any difficulty (when the latest expansion hit, I know people who quit because it was "too hard" since they were used to killing things easily and forgot how to renkei). These are some of the factors we see in today's FFXIV; the first was incredibly hard, while the second is tailored to the massives so that more subscribers could be had. The types of people who will be attracted to this will likely join new servers and it's more than likely the communities will be vastly different (if you believe that a personality or community is a product of their culture when growing up).
Aside from that, you could say that a social person will be social and a power gamer will be a power gamer. That's true, and I've no doubt that people will start linkshells (just look on this board!) prior to the game's launch so that they can play with people of like mind. Though I would also say that these are the people who like to prepare and learn about a game before playing it, and not just one who wants to jump in without any knowledge with the intents to have fun. There is nothing against that, but these are not the people who will likely read these forums, letters from the producer or even the long threads I post about the game.
So yes, it is a game, and the purpose of a game is usually to have fun. But for many having fun goes hand in hand with knowing things, getting more powerful and overall progressing. I personally have fun analyzing games with my own opinions and personal research (for those who are interested and or want to learn more about the ins and outs of things based on a few people's perception); it may seem like mumble jumble to you, or as entertaining as watching paint dry (or as painful as paying bills), but it's fun to me. Is something that I find fun not a valid way of having fun?
Edit: Here's a nice litle video of what I have experienced in existing FFXIV communities (I'm not a part of that linkshell, but I think the video was amazing). At 1:44:10 they go into some touching speeches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T76zzNalelQ&list=SP63493F34E0F2140B