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I wonder if the whole spaceship travel aspect is a placeholder

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  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,134Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by FromHell

    My impression is this is all a placeholder and in the future we will actually get into fully customizable ships and fly them out manually into space

     I think it WAS a placeholder in it's better days.

    However that plan has long since changed and they had to rush to push it out, it is probably is no longer part of the plan in the near future (if there is one).

  • TheJodaTheJoda chicago, ILPosts: 467Member
    working as intended!!

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • LogicLesterLogicLester Claremont, CAPosts: 68Member

    I'd like to think they originally intended to allow for more customization of the ships, both their interiors as well as allowing the player to choose different models/textures.  But I suspect a lot of the "clunkiness" you noticed has a lot more to do with the game limitations than any grand designs.

     

    From the actual in game cinematics is pretty clear that they originally intended ships to land on the planet, the whole thing, not just a shell.  There are a number of instances where your character will say something along the lines of "I'm on the planet now." while you're still in orbit, or you'll be told to contact someone from your ship but it's clear the story didn't intend for your ship to take off as the given quest immediately has you return to the surface (so you can enjoy the freaking Taris load screen again).  And from what I've been told, early on in the alpha?/beta? the ships did in fact actually land on the planets and you would go inside to interact with the holo or talk to a companion, as well as functioning as a planetary taxi.  If true I would guess that was removed to lessen the number of textures you would need to preload for each planet.

     

    I've also been told that early in the beta you would use the escape pod, which now do absolutely nothing, to go from your ship in orbit down to the planet.  That sounds pretty stupid to me, but perhaps this was an intermediary stage between above and what they have now, clicking the ship's exit to land on the planet.  Why they never thought to make it more common sense like clicking something from the bridge of your ship to have it land?  I have no idea.

     

    I can think of three reasons why you can't see your ship through the instance "door":

    One, they intended for ship customization like I originally mentioned, meaning there would be no reasonable way to draw the appropriate ship until the instance was "claimed" by someone entering it.

    Two, the ship functions as an actor in a cinematic and so rather than having the oddity of being able to see the ship sitting there from outside the instance while your group members are inside the instance with the ship taking off, they decided to just not show the ship from outside.

    Three, they originally intended there to be a single personal ship docking bay instance, so it couldn't draw the appropriate class ship until the instance was "claimed", later deciding to create one bay for each class but they never changed the original instance's design.

    This last one seems like the most ridiculous explanation to me so it's probably the more accurate one (they could have just made a single, larger, more logical, ship bay instance with all 4 ships in it, but they probably already had the cinematics done and didn't want to redo them).

     

    Also I wouldn't read too much into being able to see your ship leave the ship bay when you cancel the cinematic.  That's more than likely just a quirk of how the game handles interruptions to the cinematics, it doesn't handle them very well at all.  You're probably just seeing a bit of the cinematic but from the perspective of your character rather than where it would normally place the camera.

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,013Member Uncommon
    I seriously doubt it's a placeholder.  It's part of the "immersive" aspect instead. 
  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by LogicLester

    Also I wouldn't read too much into being able to see your ship leave the ship bay when you cancel the cinematic.  That's more than likely just a quirk of how the game handles interruptions to the cinematics, it doesn't handle them very well at all.  You're probably just seeing a bit of the cinematic but from the perspective of your character rather than where it would normally place the camera.

    That's likely it right there, since the cinematics are rendered on-the-fly, not pre-recorded video.

     

    BTW that was a truly awesome video of Lord Zash wigging out!  Great comic relief at a serious moment, haha.

     

     

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
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  • LogicLesterLogicLester Claremont, CAPosts: 68Member
    Originally posted by Karteli

    That's likely it right there, since the cinematics are rendered on-the-fly, not pre-recorded video.

     

    BTW that was a truly awesome video of Lord Zash wigging out!  Great comic relief at a serious moment, haha.

     

    Yeah that's one of my favorite funny videos of the game, inspired me to make an inquisitor as one of my early characters.  She actually would go nuts in a number of her cinematics if you skipped.

     

    I found that I actually really liked Zash too, she was the most interesting "evil" female character and the voice actress either did a great job, or just naturally fit well with the role.  Wished they would have used her more.

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by LogicLester
    Originally posted by Karteli

    That's likely it right there, since the cinematics are rendered on-the-fly, not pre-recorded video.

     

    BTW that was a truly awesome video of Lord Zash wigging out!  Great comic relief at a serious moment, haha.

     

    Yeah that's one of my favorite funny videos of the game, inspired me to make an inquisitor as one of my early characters.  She actually would go nuts in a number of her cinematics if you skipped.

     

    I found that I actually really liked Zash too, she was the most interesting "evil" female character and the voice actress either did a great job, or just naturally fit well with the role.  Wished they would have used her more.

    my char had a crush on Zash until...

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Zash

     

    lol

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  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,084Member Uncommon

    Placeholder? I doubt it - althgough I suspect that there were plans to improve it going forward.

    Now? Maybe but unlikely. Sure they have super secret space projects and what not but at the end of the day it all comes down to money.

    Remember WAR? The devs had huge exciting plans that the devs wanted to tell players about but couldn't. A very early, and telling post, being when the devs said that they hoped to be able to reveal the plans after they had presented them to senior EA management.  It all went quite after that. Clearly the go ahead wasn't given - although they still had the plans.

    Even if F2P has been "a success" - at least for now - that doesn't guarantee future revenue. CoH was, we have been told, bringing in more revenue after it went F2P but it still closed; age is a much bigger issue with F2P games which is why Zynga keep getting asked about what their advertising costs are (how much do they have to spend to get new F2P players).

     

    And then there is the IP. At some point it will need to be renewed and that will cost money.

    So at some stage it may get updated - and made available as an xpac perhaps - but cost control at EA must be a big thing at the moment. EA have a finite amount of money and need to decide what to invest in. So even if SWTOR is "making money" on a day to day basis EA may still decide to invest in the next Battlefield or Sims3 fluff pack. That is just the way things are.

    Enjoy the game (or not) as is, don't expect anything new. Then if something new does come that will be a bonus.

     

  • BlueTiger33BlueTiger33 La Crosse, WIPosts: 158Member

    I like the space combat for what it is...a side game. I couldn't imagine (and you know this is what these kids are pushing for) is space PVP/OPVP combat. If that was to ever happen I'd uninstall the same day.

    Space as it is, is great! I couldn't imagine having to deck/quest/whatever and pimp out my spaceship in order to assume pvp stats...sounds outright ridiculous.

    I like the game how it is right now.

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  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BlueTiger33

    I like the space combat for what it is...a side game. I couldn't imagine (and you know this is what these kids are pushing for) is space PVP/OPVP combat. If that was to ever happen I'd uninstall the same day.

    Space as it is, is great! I couldn't imagine having to deck/quest/whatever and pimp out my spaceship in order to assume pvp stats...sounds outright ridiculous.

    I like the game how it is right now.

    It will always be an option though. If they expanded the space I am sure they will keep these pathetic side games, but will have the option to travel to open world space. There is space PVP in STO, but I do not bother with it. I never bothered with it in SWG either. I always do the PvE stuff. Loads of players attacking enemy NPC ships is awesome and exciting compared to the snoozefest of this on-rails system

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
    Originally posted by FromHell My impression is this is all a placeholder and in the future we will actually get into fully customizable ships and fly them out manually into space
     I think it WAS a placeholder in it's better days.

    However that plan has long since changed and they had to rush to push it out, it is probably is no longer part of the plan in the near future (if there is one).




    The better days would have had to have been before they realized the engine wouldn't do well with open space.

    I think they did a great job with the space missions, for what they are. That is, they are not the focus of the game, and never have been. They are a 'side mission' type of thing, and for that, they are great.

    The focus of the game from the beginning was the presentation of the story lines to the players. That might not have been the best idea, but that's what they did. Everything that wasn't directly part of that focus is a side thing and probably won't turn into something dramatically different.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Demmi77Demmi77 philly, PAPosts: 225Member

    i think it was a couple years after development there was an article about the limitations of the game and the devs were very clear on what was not going to be in the game. I think it was along the lines of the fury channel and the open area of space when you are in a system. Either way, the game should have just been made a smaller co-op game. best leveling experience i have ever had in a game. Worst mmo experience i've ever had in a game.

     

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

    Originally posted by FromHell My impression is this is all a placeholder and in the future we will actually get into fully customizable ships and fly them out manually into space
     I think it WAS a placeholder in it's better days.

     

    However that plan has long since changed and they had to rush to push it out, it is probably is no longer part of the plan in the near future (if there is one).



    The better days would have had to have been before they realized the engine wouldn't do well with open space.

     

    oh the emgine will do a great job with open space, look at the enormous amount of seamless geometry, e.g. in Nar Shaddaa.

    Every corridor and the whole city is loaded into RAM, or even look at the space minigames, tons of seamless geometry and ships.

    Now if we only can steer our ships through 100+ systems jumping through hyperspace, trading, mining, pve, pvp, landing on planets,,... it should be possible with the engine. I also think they are constantly tweaking the engine and adding new features.

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  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

    Originally posted by FromHell My impression is this is all a placeholder and in the future we will actually get into fully customizable ships and fly them out manually into space
     I think it WAS a placeholder in it's better days.

     

    However that plan has long since changed and they had to rush to push it out, it is probably is no longer part of the plan in the near future (if there is one).



    The better days would have had to have been before they realized the engine wouldn't do well with open space.

     

    oh the emgine will do a great job with open space, look at the enormous amount of seamless geometry, e.g. in Nar Shaddaa.

    Every corridor and the whole city is loaded into RAM, or even look at the space minigames, tons of seamless geometry and ships.

    Now if we only can steer our ships through 100+ systems jumping through hyperspace, trading, mining, pve, pvp, landing on planets,,... it should be possible with the engine. I also think they are constantly tweaking the engine and adding new features.

    I'm starting to see why EA is complaining that everything is a huge undertaking.  They didn't seem to have built this game with flight in mind, which is a shame, seeing as how Blizzard learned that lesson transioning from early WoW to flyable expansion packs (new zones), then back to reworking the entire vanilla content for flight.

     

    Nar Shaddaa might appear seemless and beautiful, but it's just all eye candy, with missing walls, textures, low up-close art, no collision detection in normally inaccessible areas, etc.  Other planets share the same "broken" map design.

     

    SWTOR Explorations 1.0.2a - Nar Shaddaa, Athiss, Korriban, Dromund Kaas

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOzWIzPxUTI

     

    It's just what a dev gets when they sit on an IP for years to get an untested alpha engine to sort of work, then finally getting on to the game itself, only to rush it out the door ASAP.

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  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member
    Originally posted by FromHell

    Originally posted by lizardbones
      Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
    Originally posted by FromHell My impression is this is all a placeholder and in the future we will actually get into fully customizable ships and fly them out manually into space
     I think it WAS a placeholder in it's better days.

     

    However that plan has long since changed and they had to rush to push it out, it is probably is no longer part of the plan in the near future (if there is one).




    The better days would have had to have been before they realized the engine wouldn't do well with open space.

     

    oh the emgine will do a great job with open space, look at the enormous amount of seamless geometry, e.g. in Nar Shaddaa.

    Every corridor and the whole city is loaded into RAM, or even look at the space minigames, tons of seamless geometry and ships.

    Now if we only can steer our ships through 100+ systems jumping through hyperspace, trading, mining, pve, pvp, landing on planets,,... it should be possible with the engine. I also think they are constantly tweaking the engine and adding new features.

     

    That sounds like something I want.
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG Originally posted by FromHell My impression is this is all a placeholder and in the future we will actually get into fully customizable ships and fly them out manually into space
     I think it WAS a placeholder in it's better days.   However that plan has long since changed and they had to rush to push it out, it is probably is no longer part of the plan in the near future (if there is one).
    The better days would have had to have been before they realized the engine wouldn't do well with open space.  
    oh the emgine will do a great job with open space, look at the enormous amount of seamless geometry, e.g. in Nar Shaddaa.

    Every corridor and the whole city is loaded into RAM, or even look at the space minigames, tons of seamless geometry and ships.

    Now if we only can steer our ships through 100+ systems jumping through hyperspace, trading, mining, pve, pvp, landing on planets,,... it should be possible with the engine. I also think they are constantly tweaking the engine and adding new features.




    From what I've seen with the tech demos and the actual stuff created with the Hero Engine, a large, open, three dimensional space area would not work with the engine used in SWToR. They would have to use a different engine, or heavily rewrite the engine they have. Others on this forum can answer the specifics of why this is the case. The bottom line is that the engine they have just won't do it.

    You could have fairly small areas, with limited travel capabilities, and they would be fairly flat. It wouldn't be very epic.

    There are persistent rumors about a better space game, but so far, they're just rumors.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Yup, it's a placeholder until the chains of Cartel point fuel stations are complete.
  • GaborikGaborik Roseville, MNPosts: 251Member
    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Yup, it's a placeholder until the chains of Cartel point fuel stations are complete.

     

    So Putting This Comment Plus Your Sig Makes It Very Clear What You Are..Why Not Change Your Sig To Tro11ing Since 2011?
  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by FromHell

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

    Originally posted by FromHell My impression is this is all a placeholder and in the future we will actually get into fully customizable ships and fly them out manually into space
     I think it WAS a placeholder in it's better days.   However that plan has long since changed and they had to rush to push it out, it is probably is no longer part of the plan in the near future (if there is one).
    The better days would have had to have been before they realized the engine wouldn't do well with open space.  
    oh the emgine will do a great job with open space, look at the enormous amount of seamless geometry, e.g. in Nar Shaddaa.

     

    Every corridor and the whole city is loaded into RAM, or even look at the space minigames, tons of seamless geometry and ships.

    Now if we only can steer our ships through 100+ systems jumping through hyperspace, trading, mining, pve, pvp, landing on planets,,... it should be possible with the engine. I also think they are constantly tweaking the engine and adding new features.



    From what I've seen with the tech demos and the actual stuff created with the Hero Engine, a large, open, three dimensional space area would not work with the engine used in SWToR. They would have to use a different engine, or heavily rewrite the engine they have. Others on this forum can answer the specifics of why this is the case. The bottom line is that the engine they have just won't do it.

    You could have fairly small areas, with limited travel capabilities, and they would be fairly flat. It wouldn't be very epic.

    There are persistent rumors about a better space game, but so far, they're just rumors.

     

    I agree rumors are just that. As to the Hero Engine not being capable of 3D Space combat, here's an early Alpha from a small (now defunct) studio in 2009 using the Hero Engine.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt-Jk3TmodY

    If I remember correctly, Bioware tacked on the Space game shortly after closed Beta when many asked where the Space aspect of the game was.

    Here's a video from Simutronics (Hero Engine) of a quickly slapped together demo of how easy it is to make a Starfox type shooter with the Hero Engine.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To5YvCds2Qg

    Of note, in the tech demo, Hero states that it's space shooter is "And right out of the box, it's online, high scores are being shared between players, and you could easily put multiple players in the same areas, or let them all have their own instances."

    Bioware chose not to go that route.

    The thread was supposed to be about the cumbersome space travel in SWTOR, but somehow wound up focusing on the Space combat in SWTOR. (I'm guilty of doing this myself).

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Gaborik
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    Yup, it's a placeholder until the chains of Cartel point fuel stations are complete.

     

    So Putting This Comment Plus Your Sig Makes It Very Clear What You Are..Why Not Change Your Sig To Tro11ing Since 2011?

    It's a valid point for a game that has gone free to play, the developers will not spend money adding content they cannot monetize.

    Incidentally, spelling trolling tro11ing doesn't magically invalidate the site ToS.

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     

    From what I've seen with the tech demos and the actual stuff created with the Hero Engine, a large, open, three dimensional space area would not work with the engine used in SWToR. 

     

    How exactly should the engine not be capable of displaying empty space with some objects/ships/stations placed at some coordinates?

    You know each planet has already tons of geometry and textures, much more than necessary in space.

    It's already working in the minigames, we just can't steer the damn ship. Those levels you are tunneled through are not that small either.

     

    Do you mean flying 10 hours in a straight line? Probably not, after 5 minutes or so there would be a pop up or ship computer asking you to hyperspace jump out of the system in another instance.

    You know also in EvE you travel from instance to instance. It's not one big empty space, just appears to be like that because they hide the instancing very well.

     

    I suppose in TOR we would have

    - planetary orbit instances

    - open space coordinates with some battles going on in instances, PvP, PvE, PvA

    - space station instances with docking / boarding / trading / walking around

    - asteroid field mining instances

    ..

    ..

     

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  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     

    From what I've seen with the tech demos and the actual stuff created with the Hero Engine, a large, open, three dimensional space area would not work with the engine used in SWToR. 

     

    How exactly should the engine not be capable of displaying empty space with some objects/ships/stations placed at some coordinates?

    You know each planet has already tons of geometry and textures, much more than necessary in space.

    It's already working in the minigames, we just can't steer the damn ship. Those levels you are tunneled through are not that small either.

     

    Do you mean flying 10 hours in a straight line? Probably not, after 5 minutes or so there would be a pop up or ship computer asking you to hyperspace jump out of the system in another instance.

    You know also in EvE you travel from instance to instance. It's not one big empty space, just appears to be like that because they hide the instancing very well.

     

    I suppose in TOR we would have

    - planetary orbit instances

    - open space coordinates with some battles going on in instances, PvP, PvE, PvA

    - space station instances with docking / boarding / trading / walking around

    - asteroid field mining instances

    ..

    ..

    The space mission maps currently used are sort of small compared to what you want.  There is an illusion of vastness as your path intertwines back around places you've already been, but are just now seeing from a different angle.

     

    It's more obvious around big vessels, but less so in an asteroid field.  Scripted pop-ups also add to the illusion of newness as you loop around.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
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  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    What I think won't work is actually entering planet atmosphere and landing. The planets are just too small and unrealistically designed with lots of fake backdrops, missing geometry, exhaustion zones and the utterly stupid per faction unaccessible areas. At the end this is what truly ruins the game, the secluded areas and damn exhaustion zones.

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  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member

    i know people hates collect apples 0/10 quests so this one is easier.

    Find 1 space simulator which uses heroengine and bring it here.

    Space sim which uses x,y,z coordinates.

     

    Reward:200,000 exp.

     

    edit:Ninja update ,exp reward bug fix

    Let's internet

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by ForumPvP

    i know people hates collect apples 0/10 quests so this one is easier.

    Find 1 space simulator which uses heroengine and bring it here.

    Space sim which uses x,y,z coordinates.

     

    Reward:200,000 exp.

     

    edit:Ninja update ,exp reward bug fix

    well, that one here, but never got released. But x,y,z flying around works in Hero. Why shouldn't it?

    I really don't see a particular problem with space sim gameplay in Hero Engine.

    http://youtu.be/Lt-Jk3TmodY

     

     

    The BIG question is, what will BW do with it?

    Moonbreakers type, queue up for space warzone, loading screen, shoot some bogeys, loading screen, back on fleet? Meh.

    Or a huge open universe to fly around with encounters, guild ships, PvE and PvP battles happening, player comtrolled stations, territory control, sandbox style?

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