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A massively brutal critique of Camelot Unchained's website

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Comments

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by strangepowers

     


     

    Criticizing the website at such an advanced stage is childish net picking.


     

    Sometimes when folks have nothing of substance to say they will say anything regardless of it's merit. Good 'ol internet attention seeking and validation.

    Just trying to clarify things here. Are you referring to the information MJ has given us about CU or the Thread starters post about the website?

  • HokibukisaHokibukisa Midland, GAPosts: 185Member
    I can't love kindly. :'(

    image

  • CypzCypz Ottawa, ONPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by morfidon

    I agree. There should be info like that:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/16-KiQ-LGWEr0QjfihJ8AZ5itidYV4aXbmdXwAHfOjgQ/edit

     

    somewhere. Even kickstarter page doesn't say much about the game. Everything is on forums / reddit / comments. Most people who followed all tha things have already donated. We need new people who doesn't know anything about the game. People the most time leave page very fast if there is nothing that takes their attention.

     

    Holy Crap, MJ needs to sign off on this and post it on the Kickstarter page and his website. Its sad that he would rather argue with forum goers and potential backers then simply get a list like this compiled and on the sites hes using to promote the game lol.

    I agree!  That document is well put together. :)

    Cypz/Cypress

    MLF(Alb)/Mordred/Lamorak(Mid)

  • strangepowersstrangepowers Chiacgo, ILPosts: 602Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    Originally posted by strangepowers  

     
    Criticizing the website at such an advanced stage is childish net picking.
      Sometimes when folks have nothing of substance to say they will say anything regardless of it's merit. Good 'ol internet attention seeking and validation.
    Just trying to clarify things here. Are you referring to the information MJ has given us about CU or the Thread starters post about the website?

    I was referring to the OP, agreeing with Eaderbreca.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5663478

    The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  • HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon
     
     
    Originally posted by Hokibukisa
    Originally posted by Hrimnir

    Once again peopel confusing how investments and projects work. 

    This is not a website for a developing game.  This is a website for a game seeking funding for development.  They're not going to waste money and resources creating videos and screenshots and art assets for a game that may not get developed. 

    All the information you need to make your decision is contained within the foundational principles.  If you're too lazy, ignorant, or stupid to read it, thats not their problem, and as you can see from kickstarter, they're clearly not having issues with funding.

    This is exactly the kind of fan service that will see this game unfunded. You're your own worst enemy and you don't even see it.

    1) Creating a compelling presentation is step one. It isn't wasting money. A basic about and features page should have come before foundation principles because its more important. There is already concept art, its just a bunch of dragons and characters of the team.

    2) It isn't enough information because there are plenty of people waiting for more information.

    3) Oh yes it is CSE's problem, it is precisely their problem if people aren't reading the FP's. Did that sound cool in your head when you were thinking it? Cause you couldn't have made a more incorrect statement.

    4) 1 million in a week might seem like this is a guaranteed success but the interested parties already blew their load, and pledges aren't coming in fast enough now. But their is plenty of time to recover, so I don't see why people like you are so resistant to any and all suggestions. Hope over strategy?

    Fan service?  I havent contributed one red cent to the project.  I am mildly interested in it primarily because it flies in the face of what modern MMO's have become.  The reality is im not really a huge fan of PVP in MMOs, i feel they are better suited for PVE.  Thats neither here nor there.

    1. What you consider compelling and what other people consider compelling are two different things.  The basic gist of the original post and the subsequent whining essentially boils down to "they didnt grab me by the balls and MAKE me interested in the project".  It sounds like you are the type of people who need those meaningless sounds bites like, "Black Ops 2 will BLOW YOUR MIND!!!", and "The Graphics and effects are STELLLAARR!!". The reality is having a meaningful post in the foundational principles not only detailing what the game is about but WHY it is about what it is about, is far better than a bunch of trite crap meant to suck in low information consumers.

    2. If by plenty you mean a dozen or so her in this thread, ok...

    3. No, it really isnt their problem.  You see, i know this because i actually read those principles, and ive actuall listened to and read interviews with Mark Jacobs about this project.  He is making this project for a very specific core community of players, and ONLY those players.  He already has himself and several other investors willing to put in a lot more money if they show what they consider enough interest.  The point is, he isn't trying to market this project to as many people as possible, he wants to see the level of interest from the core group of people he is making the game for.

    4. This is the only sane thing you've said. Yeah, you're right, and its looking like it may not actually fund, and you know what, im ok with that.

     

    The simple fact is this entire thread boils down to 1. I'm too lazy to read, and 2. I dont understand this is a pitch for a project and not a developed or almost finished game.

     

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • HokibukisaHokibukisa Midland, GAPosts: 185Member

    I promissed suggestions, though they could be implied by the criticisms.

     

    Front page needs to tell you what the game is, and have concept art to give imagination to those ideas.

    A typical scroller that you find on many front pages, but in this case the 3 pillars.

    First frame: What the game is

    Second frame: First pillar

    Third frame: Second pillar

    Fourth frame: Third pillar

    Fifth frame:  Call to action for kickstarter

    Each frame should have an image that sums up the pillar, giving vision to the concept. (Concept. -> Art.)

    Not too many words per frame. The purpose of the scroller is to sell interest in the idea, not to explain the idea. If you sell interest in the idea, the user will seek further information. If you did not sell interest in the idea, they won't be reading it anyways. Its a thing not too many grasp unless you've worked in web user studies for a bit. Art and headline sells interest in the idea, easily digestible explainations and examples of the idea do the selling of the idea itself.

    The banner driving people to the KS page is well placed.

    I see now that there actually is a news section toward the bottom of the first page. It is well implemented except for there not being images associated with the news feeds. Images are the most important part of a news feed.

     

    About / Features page

    You shouldn't heavy handedly drive people to the KS before giving them details on the game and features itself. Users get pissed off when you deceptively redirect them, and will close all browser windows related to you at that point. Think: overly agressive car salesman.

    An EASILY digestible collection of information about the features, details of the features, and example should be available as an about / features page. morfidon's document is a much better example than what the KS page has.

    The about and features page should have additional bullets on each feature (where applicable) detailing founder benefits.

    Page should have a call to action for kickstarter with a link. You know, "this won't happen without your help!".

    Each feature is better with art too. Community? That CA you have of the guy raising his mug at the tavern. Crafting? An iconic art piece with a dwarf pounding the shit out of a sword on an anvil, and archer affixing a bow string on a bow. RvR? A keep siege. When selling a concept, the least you should do is provide concept art.

     

    Factions and Classes

    Factions and classes might should have its own page. Thats some stuff people get crazy excited about, because now they start imagining themselves playing the game as that class in that faction, interacting with the features you've sold them on. As all ways, the more concept art and details the better. Unfortunately this is the kind of information you don't have, which is why I think the KS is premature but meh, I promissed suggestions anyways, and this would have been the kind of thing that sold people on the KS.

     

    Media

    All video interviews, all fan youtube videos, all teasers should be found on a the videos page. You have 1 video on the videos page. Get all of that shit on the videos page.

    KS shouldn't have started without a basic amount of concept art available on the concept art section. And we know there is concept art, we've seen moving models in Andrew's new video, it just isn't where it needs to be.

     

    Those are the most important things. Front page, about/features, factions and classes, maybe a crafting page similar to factions and classes, and a media page.

     

    The website just isn't being maintained right now is the most important time to be maintaining it.

    image

  • CthulhuPuffsCthulhuPuffs Henderson, NVPosts: 363Member Common
    Originally posted by Hrimnir

    Once again peopel confusing how investments and projects work. 

    This is not a website for a developing game.  This is a website for a game seeking funding for development.  They're not going to waste money and resources creating videos and screenshots and art assets for a game that may not get developed. 

    All the information you need to make your decision is contained within the foundational principles.  If you're too lazy, ignorant, or stupid to read it, thats not their problem, and as you can see from kickstarter, they're clearly not having issues with funding.

    So guess what that makes you.

    In RED.

    Yeah, makes me want to kick some of my hard earned $$ their way.

     

    I dont trust MJ anyway. He made DAOC. Ok. Then sold Mythic/DAOC to EA. Totally flubbed WAR. Got removed from his own company. Now he wants to remake DAOC, but have the players fund it.

    Here, let me get my wallet out........

    Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

    Games Played: Too Many

  • HokibukisaHokibukisa Midland, GAPosts: 185Member

    Oh and social media integration with:

    Front page - ability to basically Like the game, link would bring you to an about page.

    Features - ability to like any particular feature, but each would bring you to the features page. This is where concept art for each feature comes in handy.

    Foundation Principles - ability to like any foundation principle where the link brings you to that article. Again, CA related to that article's topic would be useful here.

    Factions and classes - ability to like a faction and/or a class. Art.

    Media and News - doesn't need explaination

     

    Another good thing for the social strategy would have been to get people involved in poles for what they'd like to see. What classes, crafting would you like to see. Share with your friends and get them to vote.

     

    This social stuff is important cause it would allow us, your fanboys, a better way to spread the word.

    image

  • HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
    Originally posted by Hrimnir

    Once again peopel confusing how investments and projects work. 

    This is not a website for a developing game.  This is a website for a game seeking funding for development.  They're not going to waste money and resources creating videos and screenshots and art assets for a game that may not get developed. 

    All the information you need to make your decision is contained within the foundational principles.  If you're too lazy, ignorant, or stupid to read it, thats not their problem, and as you can see from kickstarter, they're clearly not having issues with funding.

    So guess what that makes you.

    In RED.

    Yeah, makes me want to kick some of my hard earned $$ their way.

     

    I dont trust MJ anyway. He made DAOC. Ok. Then sold Mythic/DAOC to EA. Totally flubbed WAR. Got removed from his own company. Now he wants to remake DAOC, but have the players fund it.

    Here, let me get my wallet out........

    I'm not even going to bother detailing all the reasons you're utterly wrong, but hey, thats your opinion.  Clearly you are not the target audience, so its not exactly like you're a big loss.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • HokibukisaHokibukisa Midland, GAPosts: 185Member

    My greatest fear is that this KS failure will be interpreted as a lack of interest/demand for Camelot Unchained, instead of it being due to a lack of planning and preparation.

    I don't know if its cockiness or foolishness or if they had too many "Little Finger"s whispering overconfident bs in their ears, but there is a basic amount of content and presentation required to sell an idea.

    If I had a ks for $100k I would have been better prepared than they were. : and they're asking for 2 million.

    It'd be easier to handle this failure by just saying there is a lack of interest, to lie to yourself to lessen the pain.

    image

  • usuckmmorpgcomusuckmmorpgcom c, KYPosts: 1,348Member
    imageOriginally posted by Hrimnir
    Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
    Originally posted by Hrimnir

    Once again peopel confusing how investments and projects work. 

    This is not a website for a developing game.  This is a website for a game seeking funding for development.  They're not going to waste money and resources creating videos and screenshots and art assets for a game that may not get developed. 

    All the information you need to make your decision is contained within the foundational principles.  If you're too lazy, ignorant, or stupid to read it, thats not their problem, and as you can see from kickstarter, they're clearly not having issues with funding.

    So guess what that makes you.

    In RED.

    Yeah, makes me want to kick some of my hard earned $$ their way.

     

    I dont trust MJ anyway. He made DAOC. Ok. Then sold Mythic/DAOC to EA. Totally flubbed WAR. Got removed from his own company. Now he wants to remake DAOC, but have the players fund it.

    Here, let me get my wallet out........

    I'm not even going to bother detailing all the reasons you're utterly wrong, but hey, thats your opinion.  Clearly you are not the target audience, so its not exactly like you're a big loss.

    How can an opinion be wrong? :-/

  • TroianmanTroianman Somewhere, CAPosts: 82Member
    Originally posted by Hokibukisa

    I don't know if its cockiness or foolishness or if they had too many "Little Finger"s whispering overconfident bs in their ears...

    Hehe, gotta love references to GoT.

    While you would be correct for the most part regarding the social networking part of your other post it seems as though some people are not backing purely on the basis of their distaste towards the structure/layout/content of the website or their inability to find things that don't have to be read. That is the part that seems rather odd, especially if they like the FPs and the concepts presented so far.

  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member

    I have to agree, the site definitely isnt helping.  The foundational points are nice, but sometimes vague and not enough by themselves for any but the most diehard among us.

    Information about the game is sooo spread out right now.  Its scattered all over the place in posts by Mark in different forums and comment areas, various interviews, and half a dozen other places.

    I think they might honestly be better off just replacing the website entirely with one of the nicely organized FAQ's that have been created by a few different people in the community.

  • Actually when I heard about the kickstarter I read about the project on kickstarter...  I then went to the web page and read the FPs and made my pledge almost immediately afterwards.

    The support banner on the main pafe takes you to the kickstarter page which has a lot of information.  Regardless, the setup worked fine for me.

  • DocmanduDocmandu AntwerpPosts: 60Member Common

    On a positive note, thank god it's not one of those 100% flash sites!

     

     

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