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Dispelling the 'easy' myth

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  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member

    I guarantee 99% of the people crying that games are too easy are also the first to cry if they are too hard. The baddies are always the first to cry. Yes...I MEAN YOU!

     

    Complainer: "me?"

     

    YES YOU!!

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    One reason I think the bigger world the better is because you can have both hard and easy content in the same place. I'd be completly fine with a 50/50 spread but it's more like 10/90, 10% of the game features hard content while 90% is faceroll.

    If whole areas had one or the other in the world you wouldn't have to worry about that IMO.
  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by Psychow

    I guarantee 99% of the people crying that games are too easy are also the first to cry if they are too hard. The baddies are always the first to cry. Yes...I MEAN YOU!

     

    Complainer: "me?"

     

    YES YOU!!

     

    Depends on what kind of "difficulty" it is refered to. If the difficulty comes from a stat check (like through levels and gears), then yeah I can imagine many thinking it is stupid. If the difficulty comes from requiring a high mechanical mastery, then I don't think many would complain.

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Psychow

    I guarantee 99% of the people crying that games are too easy are also the first to cry if they are too hard. The baddies are always the first to cry. Yes...I MEAN YOU!

     

    Complainer: "me?"

     

    YES YOU!!

     

    Depends on what kind of "difficulty" it is refered to. If the difficulty comes from a stat check (like through levels and gears), then yeah I can imagine many thinking it is stupid. If the difficulty comes from requiring a high mechanical mastery, then I don't think many would complain.

     

    They would complain if it gated content. I am 100% certain of that.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by deniter

    So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

    What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

    And yet you willfully ignore the fact that they added another tier of 5 mans higher than "heroics", which have mechanics in place that normalize your gear so that you can never out gear them?

    This is getting out of hand.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Psychow

    I guarantee 99% of the people crying that games are too easy are also the first to cry if they are too hard. The baddies are always the first to cry. Yes...I MEAN YOU!

     

    Complainer: "me?"

     

    YES YOU!!

     

    Depends on what kind of "difficulty" it is refered to. If the difficulty comes from a stat check (like through levels and gears), then yeah I can imagine many thinking it is stupid. If the difficulty comes from requiring a high mechanical mastery, then I don't think many would complain.

    WoW hardmodes are pretty much all about mechanics, espicially the current tier., yet people use WoW as the most common example, go figure.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Aelious
    One reason I think the bigger world the better is because you can have both hard and easy content in the same place. I'd be completly fine with a 50/50 spread but it's more like 10/90, 10% of the game features hard content while 90% is faceroll.

    If whole areas had one or the other in the world you wouldn't have to worry about that IMO.

    actually it is the opposite. In instances, you can set up a difficulty option than in a world. So you can have as many shades of difficulty as the dev wishes.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by deniter

    So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

    What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

    If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

     

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Psychow

    I guarantee 99% of the people crying that games are too easy are also the first to cry if they are too hard. The baddies are always the first to cry. Yes...I MEAN YOU!

     

    Complainer: "me?"

     

    YES YOU!!

     

    Depends on what kind of "difficulty" it is refered to. If the difficulty comes from a stat check (like through levels and gears), then yeah I can imagine many thinking it is stupid. If the difficulty comes from requiring a high mechanical mastery, then I don't think many would complain.

    WoW hardmodes are pretty much all about mechanics, espicially the current tier., yet people use WoW as the most common example, go figure.

     

    Since I haven't played in WoW for a few years: does it take long time to get good enough gears to stand a decent chance to complete those modes given that one is good with the actual mechanics? 

  • deniterdeniter LappeenrantaPosts: 806Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by deniter

    So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

    What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

    And yet you willfully ignore the fact that they added another tier of 5 mans higher than "heroics", which have mechanics in place that normalize your gear so that you can never out gear them?

    This is getting out of hand.

    If you're refering to challenge mode dungeons, then yes, i think i could live with linear and challengeless questing if there was challenge mode dungeons without the gear normalization all the way from lvl 15 to lvl 90, AND they gave me gear upgrades to overcome the challenges in next challenge mode dungeon.

    Easier way to do this, however, would be just make a dedicated server where everything was tuned up a bit.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Psychow

    I guarantee 99% of the people crying that games are too easy are also the first to cry if they are too hard. The baddies are always the first to cry. Yes...I MEAN YOU!

     

    Complainer: "me?"

     

    YES YOU!!

     

    Depends on what kind of "difficulty" it is refered to. If the difficulty comes from a stat check (like through levels and gears), then yeah I can imagine many thinking it is stupid. If the difficulty comes from requiring a high mechanical mastery, then I don't think many would complain.

    WoW hardmodes are pretty much all about mechanics, espicially the current tier., yet people use WoW as the most common example, go figure.

     

    Since I haven't played in WoW for a few years: does it take long time to get good enough gears to stand a decent chance to complete those modes given that one is good with the actual mechanics? 

    How much gear you need is directly related to your skill. Some guilds on my server have already cleared normal, and are working on Heroic with last tier's gear. Some guilds are farming the first few bosses for upgrades before they can progress through normal. My guild specifically is 10/12 normal, and have a lower avg item level than some guilds that are 4/12 normal.

  • deniterdeniter LappeenrantaPosts: 806Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by deniter

    So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

    What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

    If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

     

    What else would they do at max level? Why not ask 'why aren't they doing normal modes?'

    Back in 2006 i talked with my friend who was in hc raiding guild and said how cool it would be if we could queue for raids in same way we do for battlegrounds. So i'm not really against the idea of LFR; i just wish it would be just like normal mode raiding, only queueable version of it.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by deniter

    So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

    What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

    If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

     

    What else would they do at max level? Why not ask 'why aren't they doing normal modes?'

    Back in 2006 i talked with my friend who was in hc raiding guild and said how cool it would be if we could queue for raids in same way we do for battlegrounds. So i'm not really against the idea of LFR; i just wish it would be just like normal mode raiding, only queueable version of it.

    So they don't do sunwell ... but they do LFR ... what is the different? Only convenience and difficulty.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by deniter

    So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

    What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

    If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

     

    What else would they do at max level? Why not ask 'why aren't they doing normal modes?'

    Back in 2006 i talked with my friend who was in hc raiding guild and said how cool it would be if we could queue for raids in same way we do for battlegrounds. So i'm not really against the idea of LFR; i just wish it would be just like normal mode raiding, only queueable version of it.

    Thats impossible to do when you are grouping with 25 random players without voice communication. The only way to tackle normal modes is if everyone is on the same page, which is not the case with random queueing. We have all been going on about Heoric mode raids, but make no mistake, normal modes are still challenging as well.

    Case in point? The latest LFR wing of t15 had to be nerfed 3 times already (and has only been relased for a week) because the majority of LFR goups couldnt beat it. They even had to change the graphics to make it easier.

  • NamelessCNamelessC New York, NYPosts: 26Member Uncommon
    Don't really care about if the game is easy or not, it just got to be fun to play.
  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by deniter

    So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

    What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

    If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

     

    What else would they do at max level? Why not ask 'why aren't they doing normal modes?'

    Back in 2006 i talked with my friend who was in hc raiding guild and said how cool it would be if we could queue for raids in same way we do for battlegrounds. So i'm not really against the idea of LFR; i just wish it would be just like normal mode raiding, only queueable version of it.

     

    I would like that as well. Just like LFD allows you to Q for regular or heroic dungeons, it'd be nice if LFR allowed you to Q for LFR or Normal raids. It'd be especially usefull for players in small/ friends-only type guilds who want a better challenge.

  • deniterdeniter LappeenrantaPosts: 806Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by deniter

    So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

    What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

    If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

     

    What else would they do at max level? Why not ask 'why aren't they doing normal modes?'

    Back in 2006 i talked with my friend who was in hc raiding guild and said how cool it would be if we could queue for raids in same way we do for battlegrounds. So i'm not really against the idea of LFR; i just wish it would be just like normal mode raiding, only queueable version of it.

    So they don't do sunwell ... but they do LFR ... what is the different? Only convenience and difficulty.

    Yeah, well.. i guess so. I still like how long it took to get ready for raiding. Wouldn't have mind some convenience to actually get there, but i'd have been disappointed it to be a faceroll compared to the gearing up process.

  • deniterdeniter LappeenrantaPosts: 806Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by deniter

    So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

    What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

    If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

     

    What else would they do at max level? Why not ask 'why aren't they doing normal modes?'

    Back in 2006 i talked with my friend who was in hc raiding guild and said how cool it would be if we could queue for raids in same way we do for battlegrounds. So i'm not really against the idea of LFR; i just wish it would be just like normal mode raiding, only queueable version of it.

     

    I would like that as well. Just like LFD allows you to Q for regular or heroic dungeons, it'd be nice if LFR allowed you to Q for LFR or Normal raids. It'd be especially usefull for players in small/ friends-only type guilds who want a better challenge.

    Yup. Exactly :)

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by deniter

    So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

    What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

    If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

     

    What else would they do at max level? Why not ask 'why aren't they doing normal modes?'

    Back in 2006 i talked with my friend who was in hc raiding guild and said how cool it would be if we could queue for raids in same way we do for battlegrounds. So i'm not really against the idea of LFR; i just wish it would be just like normal mode raiding, only queueable version of it.

     

    I would like that as well. Just like LFD allows you to Q for regular or heroic dungeons, it'd be nice if LFR allowed you to Q for LFR or Normal raids. It'd be especially usefull for players in small/ friends-only type guilds who want a better challenge.

    Yup. Exactly :)

    There are already enough complaints about WoW being a "lobby" game. I would rather not see the majority of raid options go that route.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by deniter

    So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

    What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

    If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

     

    What else would they do at max level? Why not ask 'why aren't they doing normal modes?'

    Back in 2006 i talked with my friend who was in hc raiding guild and said how cool it would be if we could queue for raids in same way we do for battlegrounds. So i'm not really against the idea of LFR; i just wish it would be just like normal mode raiding, only queueable version of it.

     

    I would like that as well. Just like LFD allows you to Q for regular or heroic dungeons, it'd be nice if LFR allowed you to Q for LFR or Normal raids. It'd be especially usefull for players in small/ friends-only type guilds who want a better challenge.

    Yup. Exactly :)

    They should. Or have a few difficulty levels in LFR. It is quite obvious that different groups can handle (and like) different difficulties.

    They probably should also extend LFR to 10 man .. so you have greater controll .. like 7 guidies can plug with 3 others to beat say normal mode.

  • Vunak23Vunak23 In your house eatin'' your cookies, FLPosts: 635Member

    My guilds motto is:

    If its too easy pull more

    We do it all the time. I haven't played a game on easy since choosing your game mode became a thing. I always start a game on the hardest difficulty possible. In MMO's my guild and myself are always pushing to complete things as chaotic and difficult as possible. If something is in theory able to be completed under certain restrictions we will do it. If it can be completed solo in theory, we will do it. 

    That all said. MMO's are to easy now. Way to easy. Is it a bad thing? Depends on the game and the target audience. Should WoW be this uber hardcore difficult game? No, it was meant to be easy. Should EVE dumb down its game so anyone can pick it up and do miraculous things? No. The game was meant to be difficult and time consuming. It met that demand well and has a stable player base that enjoys that style of game. 

    The problem is so many games are going the easy accessible way, that there just isn't anything there for the more difficult seeking players. AI has hardly progressed at all and fight mechanics are all pretty much filtered and seen over and over again. Dont stand in the fire has been done to death. Its so hardcoded into our minds that it really isn't even a surprise when we see it. There is no "Oh Shit" moments when it comes to that mechanic unless your just a blatant moron. 

    Fresh fight mechanics and systems that demand at least a small amount of critical thinking would do this genre wonders. 

    "In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  • deniterdeniter LappeenrantaPosts: 806Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by deniter

    So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

    What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

    If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

     

    What else would they do at max level? Why not ask 'why aren't they doing normal modes?'

    Back in 2006 i talked with my friend who was in hc raiding guild and said how cool it would be if we could queue for raids in same way we do for battlegrounds. So i'm not really against the idea of LFR; i just wish it would be just like normal mode raiding, only queueable version of it.

     

    I would like that as well. Just like LFD allows you to Q for regular or heroic dungeons, it'd be nice if LFR allowed you to Q for LFR or Normal raids. It'd be especially usefull for players in small/ friends-only type guilds who want a better challenge.

    Yup. Exactly :)

    There are already enough complaints about WoW being a "lobby" game. I would rather not see the majority of raid options go that route.

    I agree. But we had 40 man raids back then. I wouldn't want to apply finder tools to 5 or 10 mans. I just see it a good way to pug 40 man raids. HC raiding guilds would do only guild runs anyway.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by deniter

    So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

    What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

    If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

     

    What else would they do at max level? Why not ask 'why aren't they doing normal modes?'

    Back in 2006 i talked with my friend who was in hc raiding guild and said how cool it would be if we could queue for raids in same way we do for battlegrounds. So i'm not really against the idea of LFR; i just wish it would be just like normal mode raiding, only queueable version of it.

     

    I would like that as well. Just like LFD allows you to Q for regular or heroic dungeons, it'd be nice if LFR allowed you to Q for LFR or Normal raids. It'd be especially usefull for players in small/ friends-only type guilds who want a better challenge.

    Yup. Exactly :)

    There are already enough complaints about WoW being a "lobby" game. I would rather not see the majority of raid options go that route.

    I agree. But we had 40 man raids back then. I wouldn't want to apply finder tools to 5 or 10 mans. I just see it a good way to pug 40 man raids. HC raiding guilds would do only guild runs anyway.

    Refer to one of my previous posts:

    Thats impossible to do when you are grouping with 25 random players without voice communication. The only way to tackle normal modes is if everyone is on the same page, which is not the case with random queueing. We have all been going on about Heoric mode raids, but make no mistake, normal modes are still challenging as well.

    Case in point? The latest LFR wing of t15 had to be nerfed 3 times already (and has only been relased for a week) because the majority of LFR goups couldnt beat it. They even had to change the graphics to make it easier.

  • deniterdeniter LappeenrantaPosts: 806Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Originally posted by deniter
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by deniter

    So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

    What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

    If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

     

    What else would they do at max level? Why not ask 'why aren't they doing normal modes?'

    Back in 2006 i talked with my friend who was in hc raiding guild and said how cool it would be if we could queue for raids in same way we do for battlegrounds. So i'm not really against the idea of LFR; i just wish it would be just like normal mode raiding, only queueable version of it.

     

    I would like that as well. Just like LFD allows you to Q for regular or heroic dungeons, it'd be nice if LFR allowed you to Q for LFR or Normal raids. It'd be especially usefull for players in small/ friends-only type guilds who want a better challenge.

    Yup. Exactly :)

    There are already enough complaints about WoW being a "lobby" game. I would rather not see the majority of raid options go that route.

    I agree. But we had 40 man raids back then. I wouldn't want to apply finder tools to 5 or 10 mans. I just see it a good way to pug 40 man raids. HC raiding guilds would do only guild runs anyway.

    Refer to one of my previous posts:

    Thats impossible to do when you are grouping with 25 random players without voice communication. The only way to tackle normal modes is if everyone is on the same page, which is not the case with random queueing. We have all been going on about Heoric mode raids, but make no mistake, normal modes are still challenging as well.

    Case in point? The latest LFR wing of t15 had to be nerfed 3 times already (and has only been relased for a week) because the majority of LFR goups couldnt beat it. They even had to change the graphics to make it easier.

    You're right, and you're wrong.

    Back in vanilla people pugged (or semi-pugged, the core raid was probably a small guild or group of friends) MC and ZG succesfully, so i'd say it's definitely doable to pug normal modes, but the reason it can't be done in MoP is that current playerbase has no experience on doing normal raid level content in terms of difficulty. In vanilla everyone who had run dungeons and geared up to participate raids was able to work in raidgroup. You really can't say the same for MoP. For those who have done dungeons from 1 to 90, the natural level of difficulty for raiding is LFR.

    Another reason could be itemization. I'm not sure how it works now, but back then you could start raiding even if you didn't have full BiS gear, so you could improve your gear by running 5 mans and grinding repu to make the raid easier next time. So there should be some means to farm better gear instead of nerfing content, but i believe Blizzards new philosophy is "don't let your players fail", so wiping constantly in LFR is out of question.

    So, i think the game isn't that easy for the current playerbase afterall, even if it is for us who used to play in vanilla and TBC.

  • waffleyonewaffleyone Edina, MNPosts: 29Member
    Originally posted by Vunak23

    -snip-

    Fresh fight mechanics and systems that demand at least a small amount of critical thinking would do this genre wonders. 

    This guy absolutely understands.

     

    Originally posted by deniter

    If you're refering to challenge mode dungeons, then yes, i think i could live with linear and challengeless questing if there was challenge mode dungeons without the gear normalization all the way from lvl 15 to lvl 90, AND they gave me gear upgrades to overcome the challenges in next challenge mode dungeon.

    Easier way to do this, however, would be just make a dedicated server where everything was tuned up a bit.

    I would love a game to death that had challenge dungeons the whole way through. Giving players the option of challenging content from early on is exactly the kind of thing that would give the genre a shot in the arm.

    Making a server where everything was tuned up a bit (I assume 'all the everything has more hp/does more damage) wouldn't accomplish this at all.

     

    Originally posted by deniter

    So, i think the game isn't that easy for the current playerbase afterall, even if it is for us who used to play in vanilla and TBC.

    Looks to me like a substantial chunk of the playerbase has never been challenged, and when presented with a challenge don't even know how to deal with it, and wipe till it gets nerfed. Awesome.

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