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Fed up.. There's rules in every game.

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  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by snapfusion
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    Yep, there are all kind of rules. Lets look at some that are still on the books in some places. 

    These are just from Massachusettes. 

     

    All men must carry a rifle to church on Sunday.

     

    It is illegal to go to bed without first having a full bath.

     

    A woman can not be on top in sexual activities.

     

    Tattooing and body piercing is illegal. (Repealed in 2000)

     

    Children may smoke, but they may not purchase cigarettes.

     

    Snoring is prohibited unless all bedroom windows are closed and securely locked.

     

    Not all rules are good rules. 

    Thanks for the off topic rule list and for stating the obvious at the end, but here is the jist of the OP.

    "Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game.."

    Good grief, that completely flew over your head, didn't it.  People aren't asking for a ruleless game, they are asking for different rules.  Being able to explore the entire continent is a rule.  Being able to choose the faction you want despite your race, is another rule.  Not being forced to PvP at end game is yet another rule.  All of these choices combine into the game's rule set.

    And when you have a new set of rules you have another game. So the OP is asking the devs go back and make a different game? That seems like a silly move after this has been in the works for almost 6 years.

    It's in development and the ones doing the requesting are elder scrolls fans asking for elder scrolls mechanics and game design.  It's not like they're pulling it out of their collective asses and asking for stuff that has nothing to do with the franchise, but whatever.

    Ok here is where you lose. Its 6 years in so the core mechanics are in and almost done. As for who asking for the changes, yes some of you are TES fans. But there are also TES fans like me who are very happy with the game they have made. I have been playing TES sinse they were 8 bit games. Yelling this dose not fit TES model is IMO a fools move for 2 reasons.

    1. This is a 1000 years outside the games. What makes a single player game does not work in a MMO so things need to be added and taken away. TES is not a sandbox game its more themepark then anything. So they picked a awesome themepark game that is the gold standard for PvP. Every PvP game thats been made over the past 10 years and been compaired to DAoC. 

    2. MMOs need to grow or die. Mario started fixing pipes. When we got super mario brothers we didnt yell what the heck is the side scroller? Then Mario went 3D and is roaming the stars. Warcraft RTS became WoW and is nothing like its start, everyone plays a Hero, WHAT?!?!?! 2 Heros a map thats it, whats this crafting crap? Games grow and become more then their roots. Thats a good thing.

    Here's where you lose.  The developers have made recent changes to the game based on player feedback.  They have shown a willingness to make changes for the benefit of the game and its target audience.  There is every reason for them to continue down that path when the requests are based on franchise design philosophy.

    Your right they did add changes but if you look close to the changes it did not touch the 3 faction war. Faction lock still in place and the 3 factions are not playing together. This is a change that works just fine for not breaking the core design of the game. Other another note, I also am part the target audience. TES fan and have been playing them from the day when they were 8 bit games. Want changes? Then make suggestions that wont break the core of the game it was designed from groud up on. Why? Because you have a much better chance of getting what you want. If its the core game you dont like then I suggest you find one you do. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    [mod edit]
  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    [mod edit]

    I already asked if you want me to remove the quote. If you want it removed then just ask. The reason for the quote is to point out the flaw in the design of TESO not to in anyway insult you. If you want me to remove your name happy to do that, if you want it all gone happy to do that too.

    But please, just ask first rather then follow suite and insult me in defence of someone else insulting me.

  • GaoxinGaoxin BluhPosts: 196Member Uncommon

    see it this way: if you want to twink, you have 3 different areas and races, instead of grinding the same sht all over again. :>

     

     

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gaoxin

    see it this way: if you want to twink, you have 3 different areas and races, instead of grinding the same sht all over again. :>

     

     

    Very true, or you can take your main and earn the right to see the other factions maps with some of the biggest rewards in the game =-) Around 400hr of elder game. Thats awesome, 2 options to see all the maps.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • LhynnSaintLhynnSaint CordobaPosts: 119Member
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by LhynnSaint

    TES rpgs have always been open world sandbox. TES online wont be, therefore TES online will lack the very thing that made the TES series special. TES will not be special, it will be a generic themepark set on tamriel.

    If you are ok with that, go ahead and play it, if you are not and feel it should be better, just complain and hope theyll change it down the line.

    Looks like you missed Redguard, and to a lesser extent Battlespire.

    Nope, left them out on purpose. Those are action RPG, they are as much of an RPG as infamous, god of war or diablo 3.

    And they were nothing special.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LhynnSaint
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by LhynnSaint

    TES rpgs have always been open world sandbox. TES online wont be, therefore TES online will lack the very thing that made the TES series special. TES will not be special, it will be a generic themepark set on tamriel.

    If you are ok with that, go ahead and play it, if you are not and feel it should be better, just complain and hope theyll change it down the line.

    Looks like you missed Redguard, and to a lesser extent Battlespire.

    Nope, left them out on purpose. Those are action RPG, they are as much of an RPG as infamous, god of war or diablo 3.

    And they were nothing special.

    Action themepark style RPG is right. As for nothing special, IMO best single player RPG series ever. Had its bugs but well worth the time and reply.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • zafouliszafoulis thessalonikiPosts: 13Member
    ofc class limitation per race makes the players wanna play it, because exclusivity is always something a player wants. at least from my point of view.
  • LhynnSaintLhynnSaint CordobaPosts: 119Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by LhynnSaint
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by LhynnSaint

    TES rpgs have always been open world sandbox. TES online wont be, therefore TES online will lack the very thing that made the TES series special. TES will not be special, it will be a generic themepark set on tamriel.

    If you are ok with that, go ahead and play it, if you are not and feel it should be better, just complain and hope theyll change it down the line.

    Looks like you missed Redguard, and to a lesser extent Battlespire.

    Nope, left them out on purpose. Those are action RPG, they are as much of an RPG as infamous, god of war or diablo 3.

    And they were nothing special.

    Action themepark style RPG is right. As for nothing special, IMO best single player RPG series ever. Had its bugs but well worth the time and reply.

    whats the best rpg series ever? am intrigued

  • ariasaitchoariasaitcho Rapid City, SDPosts: 112Member
    Originally posted by WellzyC

     

    In real life there are rules..

     

    In games there are rules..

     

    Race limitation, Faction locks are rules..

     

    Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game..

     

     

    Quit complaining about race limitation, and faction lock,... rules have been around since you were 7 years old playing candy land.. get over it.

     

     

    Thx, have a great day.

    +1

    image
  • SephirosoSephiroso Marietta, GAPosts: 1,160Member
    Originally posted by ariasaitcho
    Originally posted by WellzyC

     

    In real life there are rules..

     

    In games there are rules..

     

    Race limitation, Faction locks are rules..

     

    Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game..

     

     

    Quit complaining about race limitation, and faction lock,... rules have been around since you were 7 years old playing candy land.. get over it.

     

     

    Thx, have a great day.

    +1

    This is in response to WellzyC, didnt wanna find his original post.

     

    First off, learn the difference between a rule and a limitation. Race/faction lock = Limitations. Not Rules. An example of a rule is:  you may not create more than 1 account or you will be banned. or You may not use 3rd party programs to be used with the game, or you will be banned.

     

    A limitation is generally a restriction, no ifs ands or buts, you cannot do it period. A rule is, a restriction in itself, most usually related to behavioral restrictions, but they're restrictions where if you cross them, there are consequences, most being banishment.

     

    With that being said. Rules do not make games fun. Rules make games playable. Limitations most absolutely do not make games fun. In some instances, limitations can, like rules make games playable, but most limitations are in place for technical reasons. Like a limitation on character size(in games where you can adjust your character's body in creation).

     

    What makes a game fun is its features. Like combat, visual features, music and sounds even. Not the rules that are set out for you.

     

    /thread

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Edmonton, ABPosts: 379Member
    Originally posted by WellzyC

     

    In real life there are rules..

     

    In games there are rules..

    And some are good or at least tolerable rules, some are oppressive and/or detrimental, and some are of subjective value only.

    Faction lock is the latter type of rule.  (Sephiroso's distinctions between 'limitations' and 'rules' notwithstanding.)

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Maelwydd

    I am sure you have a point but fucked if I can work out what relevence it has to my post.

    You said essentially "I want to play a Tamriel simulator".

    I said "its not a tamriel simulator".

    You said "I know, thats why its poorly designed".

    I said "None of the ES games have been Tamriel simulators".

    You said "I don't know what that has to do with what I said". 

    Bro, do you even english?

    "Bro, do you even english?"

    Hmmm...I think my answer is yes.

    At no point did I say I wanted a Tamriel simulator. I stated there is zero reason for races to be faction locked.

    Ah screw it, you are a Troll, end of talking to you.

    LOL. Not at all. Your entire argument is founded on the idea that "faction lock is not realistic". The sad thing is NONE OF THE TES GAMES ARE REALISTIC IN THE SLIGHTEST. You guys who keep going off on "immersion" are completely invalid arguments when you consider the sheer number of horribly immersion breaking things that all of the TES games do, when there is no reason for it. The sheer number in Skyrim alone is staggering.

    Eso is a game, whatever rules the developers decide to put in place to facilitate that game is entirely up to them. No different than Redguard still being a TES game.

    You can't even quote me without twisting my words...

    What I say = " there is zero reason for races to be faction locked".

    What you think I say = "faction lock is not realistic".

    Go away troll.

    It's just the old '22 = 2+2 = 4 twostep' used by those without a valid argument...

    However - if you are saying 4 = Troll - I understand...

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    It's just the old '22 = 2+2 = 4 twostep' used by those without a valid argument...

    However - if you are saying 4 = Troll - I understand...

    Nope. You may not accept my argument, but it does not make it any less valid. You do not get to say what is and what is not an Eso title. Just like how "true fans" do not accept the new Star Wars trilogy does not make it any less Star Wars. If the developers say there is faction lock, then that alone is more than enough reason for there to be faction lock.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,413Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    It's just the old '22 = 2+2 = 4 twostep' used by those without a valid argument...

    However - if you are saying 4 = Troll - I understand...

    Nope. You may not accept my argument, but it does not make it any less valid. You do not get to say what is and what is not an Eso title. Just like how "true fans" do not accept the new Star Wars trilogy does not make it any less Star Wars. If the developers say there is faction lock, then that alone is more than enough reason for there to be faction lock.

    If the fans say, 'We're not buying it!', the developers often end up  saying 'Do you have a job opening?'  somewhere else.

     

    ESO underperforming would definitely cause some business questions to start to roll downhill.  Don't know how much they've spent on this game, but the more they've spent, the less they can afford large blocks of unhappy folks who might have been customers.

     

     

     

     

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • AnakamiAnakami BielefeldPosts: 103Member

    Actually...people do get to say what is ESO and what it is not. Because it is their opinion and their own impression. It doesn't really matter what the developers think, because in the end it is the players they are trying to win over with the world they create, and if the players don't buy into it, they will not play.

    Because we all want the game to succeed and have fun in it, we give feedback why we are disappointed with some of their design choices, and maybe they will listen and in th end we get something we can all enjoy.

    Saying that whatever the developers come up with is Elder Scrolls is only true in a very specific context. Of course it is Elder Scrolls if you go by what is officially approved and by the names and setting they use. The question is rather: for how many is it true? Only the devs making it and those who agree with their decisions?

    if they had decided to make it a FPS featuring alien invasions with spaceships and place it in Tamriel, is it still Elder Scrolls? Just because the developers make it? I can't quite agree with that logic.

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by Anakami

    if they had decided to make it a FPS featuring alien invasions with spaceships and place it in Tamriel, is it still Elder Scrolls? Just because the developers make it? I can't quite agree with that logic.

    I dunno, WoW basically did just that for Burning Crusade and it worked out rather well for them. :)

  • AnakamiAnakami BielefeldPosts: 103Member
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Anakami

    if they had decided to make it a FPS featuring alien invasions with spaceships and place it in Tamriel, is it still Elder Scrolls? Just because the developers make it? I can't quite agree with that logic.

    I dunno, WoW basically did just that for Burning Crusade and it worked out rather well for them. :)

    I am really not good on WoW lore, but wasn't the Outlands where the Orcs and Draenei originated from? Don't really know if the spacegoats were already established lore or not.

    You are right of course, we have to wait until release and maybe a year after that until we see how well their alterations to the lore and game will work out for them :)

  • LhynnSaintLhynnSaint CordobaPosts: 119Member

    Anyway, i could care less about the 3 faction lock, and i believe everyone else does as well, what we want to be able to do is go to the enemy castle with an elite squad and take it, and start putting buckets on people heads, we want organic emergent gameplay that the TES series is known for.

  • znaiikaznaiika denver, PAPosts: 203Member
    Originally posted by LhynnSaint

    Anyway, i could care less about the 3 faction lock, and i believe everyone else does as well, what we want to be able to do is go to the enemy castle with an elite squad and take it, and start putting buckets on people heads, we want organic emergent gameplay that the TES series is known for.

    I do care about faction lock, then you can't just pick one race and spawn in a different faction lands, because I like "Aldmeri dominion" wooded area and want to pick redguard as my race.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by WellzyC

     

    In real life there are rules..

     

    In games there are rules..

     

    Race limitation, Faction locks are rules..

     

    Rules make games fun, without rules there is no game..

     

     

    Quit complaining about race limitation, and faction lock,... rules have been around since you were 7 years old playing candy land.. get over it.

     

     

    Thx, have a great day.

    What I see here is a very broad, vague and general sweeping statement about life in general used to elicit an emotional response to make people who don't like the game's design feel like they are wrong for feeling that way. Your post does nothing to address the actual feelings the players have one way or another. You haven't presented an argument to back up what it is your post is trying to say.  Please present specifics. Why are these specific rules good? Cite the complaints that made you post this and address them point by point. Please form a solid arguement against those who say they don't like the idea of a game that is supposed to be about exploration while at the same time hampers their ability to do so and why is this a needed rule for the betterment of the game.

  • LhynnSaintLhynnSaint CordobaPosts: 119Member
    Originally posted by znaiika
    Originally posted by LhynnSaint

    Anyway, i could care less about the 3 faction lock, and i believe everyone else does as well, what we want to be able to do is go to the enemy castle with an elite squad and take it, and start putting buckets on people heads, we want organic emergent gameplay that the TES series is known for.

    I do care about faction lock, then you can't just pick one race and spawn in a different faction lands, because I like "Aldmeri dominion" wooded area and want to pick redguard as my race.

    Eh, you can always say "fkem" and go your own way, or at least you should be able to in a TES game :3

  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Edmonton, ABPosts: 379Member
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    It's just the old '22 = 2+2 = 4 twostep' used by those without a valid argument...

    However - if you are saying 4 = Troll - I understand...

    Nope. You may not accept my argument, but it does not make it any less valid.

    Your argument resting on a foundation of attacking what he hasn't actually said, otoh, does make it less valid.

    You do not get to say what is and what is not an Eso title. Just like how "true fans" do not accept the new Star Wars trilogy does not make it any less Star Wars. If the developers say there is faction lock, then that alone is more than enough reason for there to be faction lock.

    Just like if they'd said "no raids,"  right?

     

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by KaosProphet
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    It's just the old '22 = 2+2 = 4 twostep' used by those without a valid argument...

    However - if you are saying 4 = Troll - I understand...

    Nope. You may not accept my argument, but it does not make it any less valid.

    Your argument resting on a foundation of attacking what he hasn't actually said, otoh, does make it less valid.

    What? That is exactly what he said. The sheer amount of pot calling the kettle black in his statement is hilarious.

    You do not get to say what is and what is not an Eso title. Just like how "true fans" do not accept the new Star Wars trilogy does not make it any less Star Wars. If the developers say there is faction lock, then that alone is more than enough reason for there to be faction lock.

    Just like if they'd said "no raids,"  right?

    Essentially yes. Though it is fair to question what systems they are putting into place to cater to those sorts of players, or if they are going to cater to those sorts of players at all. If they do not want "raiders" playing their game then they are more than in their right to say it. The problem of course being that is not what they have said. We can quibble over definitions all day, like what is a raid, but "freedom" does not define a Tes game, atleast not anymore than controlling multiple units and balancing your economy defined Warcraft.

  • SmudgemumbleSmudgemumble Edmonton, ABPosts: 2Member
    So I'm just gunna throw this out there, can you or I or anyone from the continent of North America ally themselves with North Korea?  No, no they can't and even in the unlikely scenario in which you would be allowed into North Korea would you be accepted, trusted, left feeling welcomed, or put to some purpose?  Again, no you wouldn't be (unless your Dennis Rodman, can your Argonian become the Tamrielan equivalent of Dennis Rodman? that has yet to be shown).  Why simpley because of tenous military circumstance and that is more than enough.  Makes sense from a lore standpoint, makes sense for the sake of a cohesive pvp experience,  now if you wanna be a Wookie on Endor thats fine but does it make sense?
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