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Revival of the space sim genre - tougher times for EvE incoming?

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  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member

    with Star Citizen and Elite having LOTS of avatar centric gameplay announced (FPS style ship capturing, walking on stations and planets..) I really hope that EvE is getting this too. They need to integrate Dust 514 somehow into the PC client and expand on that, that would be awesome.

    I really want to walk around in my ships, get out of the airlock in a space suit and run around on an asteroid while my ship is mining resources :))

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  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon

    Played EVE since launch and I still love it, although some aspects made me rethink all this like:

    -devs favoritism towards certain alliances because they are either member of those alliances themselves or former members hired by CCP.
    -RMT trade by alliance leaders and devs doing nothing about it because they are RL friends/have very god friendships to those leaders.
    -LOTS of options offered to counter the above complaint and there's NOTHING done about it or on the roadmap.
    -EVE is a numbers game, I happen to be in the alliances that can win fights at 1:10 odds because of the skill, but basicly EVE is a numbers game.


    If there is a game LIKE EVE, sandbox, vast universe and a healthy playerbase I would certainly try it for sure.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • calranthecalranthe stoke on trentPosts: 356Member

    EVE is EVE while most eve players play other mmo games for a bit of fun nothing out there has ever come close to what eve does, yes it is a harsh game and nearly 10 years after I first tried the game I still get a high from jumping through a gate in 0.0 not knowing what is on the other side.

    When you come out on the other side of the gate and 30+ guys are waiting for you all the lessons learnt the adrenalin kicks in, judging distances calculating to see if a celestial is within your alignment or could I make it back to the gate, that 30 seconds before you decloak can be the longest seconds of your life exce[t for the time it takes for your ship to align and kick into warp.

    1000+ people on either side of a gate multiple fleets, cynos ready for support the FCs in command channel and on the line deciding whether to jump in or force the oponent to make a move, capitals fueled and ready, every damn member listening on mumble for the J word.

    Eve has ruined pvp for me in any other game because of the lack of consequence and meaning woohoo so what if I can gain rank or points if engage in combat in eve my ship, my money is on the line so my skills have to be up to par.

    CCP is not perfect eve can be a "bad game" but those moments when 3200 people clash in a system or when you go off in a rifter solo it is beyond words.

    this week I played some dead space 3, TSW and POE when star citizen comes out I will get it just like when the new X game comes out but none of them take away or replace EVE.

     

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member

    If these news games spur CCP to get off their asses and put some avatar based gameplay into EVE, then so much the better.

    But I stand by my prediction that a larger field of SF-themed online games will benefit EVE.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Malcanis

    If these news games spur CCP to get off their asses and put some avatar based gameplay into EVE, then so much the better.

    But I stand by my prediction that a larger field of SF-themed online games will benefit EVE.

    And I agree.

     

    Because it will make it very obvious that EVE is a game like no other.

     

    None of the new games will have remotely close to the quantity or diversity of content that EVE has. And what is the number one killer of MMO's these days ? Lack of content. CCP have been adding features to EVE constantly since it launched. They have 10+ years of player metrics to tell them what their players like doing and what they don't. They have had 10 years of experience with tuning netcode, client and server performance.

     

    In many ways, EVE is one of the last "old-skool" MMO's in the western market, if not the last. It is not casual friendly. It does not try to appeal to a wide spectrum of players. It is unashamedly group-centric. It is sandbox and it is brutal. The basic gameplay formula has not changed much since it launched in 2003. Most people either love it or hate it.

     

    The new games will draw the vast majority of their playerbase from the millions of people that don't like EVE. That doesn't hurt EVE in the slightest. If CCP wanted to increase their sub revenue by changing the game to draw in more players, they would have done that years ago. But they were wise enough not to lose their focus on providing a game that appeals to a very specific niche. They never tried to chase the numbers.

     

    How many of the new games are going to launch with great fanfare and hype and "beta key" promotions on MMORPG and offering $50 Founder Packs ?

    How many of them will design their gameplay around  the fact that they HAVE TO promote Cash Shop sales ? 

    How many of them will fall prey to "indie developer syndrome", and launch a half-completed game with promises of great things to come if the players will just support them for the next few years ?

    How many of them will be able to survive with 50K or 60K dedicated players during their first year or two (as EVE did) ?

  • f1sebf1seb Copiague, NYPosts: 192Member Uncommon

    The reason why I started to play Eve and continue to play it is because there isn't in my eyes a good enough online space sim game.  I drooled over all the little features and tidbits that was trickling down to us about Jumgate Evolution, Black Prohpecy had some nice graphics and ship control, unfortunately as a lobby game, it wasn't much of a space sim. 

    Tried Star Trek Online, not my thing. 

    Sure there's a online mod for Freelancer, but it looks dated and I'd like to use a bit more than 5% of my computers capability.  I  play X3 games, but they're single player.......and after a while shooting the AI isn't as fun.

    So now here's the resurgence in the genre with Star citizen and Elite Dangerous possibly being "that" game.  I'm excited and if either of those 2 games become amazing, I'll be dropping EVE and never looking back.  Alghout I can see that being a problem for veterans of the game, who have so much time invested in this game and their high accumulation of skillpoints it would probably be hard for them to leave it.

     

    I expect a lot of the newer players leaving EVE since they don't have much to lose.  But I'm sure the majority of the vets will stay no matter how good the other space sims are.

  • Attend4455Attend4455 BirminghamPosts: 161Member
    Originally posted by free2play

    If they are small universe games like STO they won't touch EVE. If they are small Universe games with FFA PvP they won't be around long enough to matter.

    If they focus exclusively on the pew pew they will dry up.

    While the Pee Vee Pee crowd of EVE fancy themselves the only thing that matters, EVE is more. Thousands of people log in to Jita every day and never leave Jita. Thousands log in docked up in a Mackinaw and never undock in anything else.

    EVE is huge. It is multi profession. Slapping together a space game isn't going to cut EVE down. Much like Blizzard and WoW the only thing that can kill EVE is CCP and EVE. Anyone who sees EVE and thinks they want a piece, don't look at the 400K playing, look at the 2 million who quit.

    underlined -- that's a pretty good point.

    But to the OP, we''ll have to see what is vapourware and what actually emerges (in several years time)

     

    I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone

  • BaitnessBaitness Posts: 318Member Uncommon
    The only thing the awesome revival of space sim is going to do is up interest in EVE.  That is how it makes me feel anyways.  When I hear about the awesome games coming up I am like "damn that is sweet, lets go play eve."
  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
     

    How many of them will fall prey to "indie developer syndrome", and launch a half-completed game with promises of great things to come if the players will just support them for the next few years ?

    How many of them will be able to survive with 50K or 60K dedicated players during their first year or two (as EVE did) ?

     

    That's a pretty good point actually - would the MMO scene allow a new MMO the chance to develop into an "AAA" game in the way EVE did? I could make a case for EVE having what was effectively an 8 or 9 year live paid beta, and there's no denying that CCP benefitted tremendously from that.

    On the other hand, there are new funding and publishing options - Kickstarter and Steam give opportunities to indie devs that CCP would have sold their souls for back in 2003.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • KareliaKarelia HeraklionPosts: 668Member
    i dont thik eve addicts, including me, will care at any of this or any other space mmo game.
  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member

    About time we get something as deep as EvE, plus Joystick Action combat

     

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
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    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
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    The Return of ELITE !
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  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    Anyone else noticed that the multiplayer space sim genre is getting a LOT more attention lately?

    A bunch of interesting new titles in development, plus some rumored ones, most of them are massive multiplayer games.

    I know EvE combat is different to the action combat of upcoming titles, but which effect will the new competition have on EvE?

    Will CCP try to bring in long promised big new features like Walking in Stations? New gameplay aspects maybe? New incentives to play?

     the upcoming competition (only partially confirmed)

    Star Citizen - not an mmo

    Elite Dangerous - not an mmo

    Star of Barathrum - cant really find any info about this pretty sure its not an mmo

    TOR SSSP Update/Expansion - really... really..?

    Infinity - been in development forever.. will it ever happen? who knows?

    Starlight Inception - not an MMO

    ...

    So i dont see any of those really doing anything to EVE..

  • AmegashieAmegashie naPosts: 282Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dreamsofwar
    Eve is the WoW of the space genre in terms of it being the largest and most polished and most complete game in its field. New space sims would have to offer something very special to give Eve a tough time.

    Easy enough: They just need to have action oriented space combat with pretty graphics and big f'in lazerz. PvE in Eve is horrendous.

     

    Let's wait and see how many of the games mentioned make it past release and in what state they are in then before jumping on the "Omgomgomg Eve is DYINGGG !!11" train though.

  • YalexyYalexy BerlinPosts: 1,053Member Uncommon

    EvE is not only about spaceships and SciFi and that's the reason why no spacesim will harm the game.

    The core-features of EvE are the economy and the politics. These two features make EvE into a living game-world. Without them there wouldn't be any battles between alliances/corps to start with.

    No other MMO so far has captured these features the way EvE did, and that's why EvE is the only MMO currently available for people who are interested in a 100% player-driven game-world.

    Additionally. The scale of the EvE-battles can't be done with Freelancer-style twitch-controls, and that's another reason, why EvE doens't have to fear anything from any of the upcoming space-sims, as these game-worlds will feel tiny in comparison.

  • SozzaSozza New York, NYPosts: 3Member

    I realy hope ccp get som serios competition they realy need it to get there ass out of ...

    Star C look nice..

    Daoc 00-12,EvE 03-13,and more ...

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Boca Raton, FLPosts: 867Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Originally posted by ThumbtackJ

    Plenty of people still use a joystick. I myself have a Saitek X52 Pro that I use for games like FSX, Evochron Mercenary, X3 TC/AP, Galaxy on Fire 2, etc. For many space/flight sims it's the preferred controller method. Though I can see how in EVE it wouldn't be, what with the static combat making it unnecessary to use a joystick, as well as having to navigate through the plethora of menus. A mouse would obviously be the better choice.

    What do you think about Evochron Mercenary?  I never heard of it until now.  What I read on their web site sounds interesting.
      I have the same flight stick and haven't used it in a while.  I've been looking for a good flight / space game.

    Have you tried Vendetta Online?  It's pretty slow-paced compared to a lot of other games qualifying themselves as MMOs these days (downloading War Thunder as I write this) but it definitely works with joysticks.

    "To be what you are not, experience what you are not." -Saint John of the Cross
    Authored 110 missions in Vendetta Online
    Check it out on Steam

  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon

    I think EVE will have a wake up call with Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen(and who knows what else is lurking in the shadows  :)  ) and it will be because of one thing.   CCP refuses to do anything regarding avatar play.   EVE has a loyal player base that insist that avatar play has no place in EVE, they are wrong and have been wrong, and that will be EVE's main failing.   

    Top that off with the way progression works in EVE(which is all ready a huge factor when it comes to EVE's poor retention rate).  Then add to that, that EVE is a game of numbers and spreadsheets.    This turns a lot of people off.  Now toss in some of the most boring and repatative game play one can experince in a game and people will flock to anything other than EVE.

    EVE's greatest strength right now is - is that it is the only real sci-fi game online with cool graphics and ships, and this is all it really has going for it.

    If a sci-fi game comes out that offers deeper game play and challenges, with a good mix of ship and avatar game play - EVE will take a beating.

    image
  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Teala

    I think EVE will have a wake up call with Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen(and who knows what else is lurking in the shadows  :)  ) and it will be because of one thing.   CCP refuses to do anything regarding avatar play.   EVE has a loyal player base that insist that avatar play has no place in EVE, they are wrong and have been wrong, and that will be EVE's main failing.   

    Top that off with the way progression works in EVE(which is all ready a huge factor when it comes to EVE's poor retention rate).  Then add to that, that EVE is a game of numbers and spreadsheets.    This turns a lot of people off.  Now toss in some of the most boring and repatative game play one can experince in a game and people will flock to anything other than EVE.

    EVE's greatest strength right now is - is that it is the only real sci-fi game online with cool graphics and ships, and this is all it really has going for it.

    If a sci-fi game comes out that offers deeper game play and challenges, with a good mix of ship and avatar game play - EVE will take a beating.

     

    What do you think of the idea of spinning Incarna/WiS off as a different game, linked to the EVE universe like DUST is? (Probably rather more closely than DUST)

    Do you think a Kickstarter project to get Incarna going might work?

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Malcanis
    Originally posted by Teala

    I think EVE will have a wake up call with Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen(and who knows what else is lurking in the shadows  :)  ) and it will be because of one thing.   CCP refuses to do anything regarding avatar play.   EVE has a loyal player base that insist that avatar play has no place in EVE, they are wrong and have been wrong, and that will be EVE's main failing.   

    Top that off with the way progression works in EVE(which is all ready a huge factor when it comes to EVE's poor retention rate).  Then add to that, that EVE is a game of numbers and spreadsheets.    This turns a lot of people off.  Now toss in some of the most boring and repatative game play one can experince in a game and people will flock to anything other than EVE.

    EVE's greatest strength right now is - is that it is the only real sci-fi game online with cool graphics and ships, and this is all it really has going for it.

    If a sci-fi game comes out that offers deeper game play and challenges, with a good mix of ship and avatar game play - EVE will take a beating.

     

    What do you think of the idea of spinning Incarna/WiS off as a different game, linked to the EVE universe like DUST is? (Probably rather more closely than DUST)

    Do you think a Kickstarter project to get Incarna going might work?

    Spin Incarna or walking in stations off as another game, separate, yet still part of EVE.    Don't think that would work.   Here is why.   It still means my character from EVE cannot leave her quarters.     CCP has all ready prettty much canned Incarna.    They don't want to piss off the loyal part of the fan base that wants nothing to do with WIS - we saw what happened when they tried.    Unless CCP stops messing  with Dust and WOD and concentrates on making EVE better - all of EVE(including avatar play), Incarna will never see the light of day. 

    Kickstart?  A successful game company using kickstart to raise funds?  Hmmm...it would work, maybe, if the people that donate got some cool encentives for doing it.   But as for kickstarting Incarna?  No...not as long as it is separate from the main part of the game EVE.   As I stated, the whole premise of Incarna was so we could walk around stations and do things with our characters, if I cannot do that with my EVE character that all ready exist - kinda defeats the purpose.

    Then again, CCP has decided to divert resources and money from EVE, away from EVE for the development of Dust and WOD...so them asking the public to kickstart a project when they all ready have money(they could stop funding WOD and put it into EVE - not going to happen though).   No...don't see that working.   I suppose if you get elected to the CSM(which looks like it is going to happen) you could propose such things - but I really do not think it will work for the reasons I stated.

     

    image
  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member

    But you haven't really given any reasons. You've just asserted "not going to happen" several times.

    The only specific objection you have is that you wouldn't be able to walk your EVE character through stations. But why does a seperate Incarna game have to be structured that way? After all the character creation engine for Incarna already exists. Your character is already an Incarna character, mechanically speaking. A seperate Incarna game has no technical barrier to Pod Pilot Teala walking through the door. The barrier is purely a commercial/funding one: pod pilots will have to pay to walk through the door.

    The objection that "FiS" players have to Incarna is not that it exists, but that it sucked a huge amount of resources up at the expense of other gameplay. Basically, they don't want to extend any more "credit" to the project, but that's not the same as being unwilling to pay for the work once it's done.

    If they were presented with an Incarna project that was seperately funded and which they had the option to join, that might be another matter entirely. Assuming the project launched and it was successful, I think you'd see plenty of EVE pilots willing to pay $25 or a couple of PLEX to get out of their pods. I would, for sure.

    Finding that "credit" - the development resources for a project that lots of people say they want but that the parent company is unwilling/unable to provide in the normal way - for Incarna is exactly the kind of project that Kickstarter is for.

    So given that a normal MMO is, what? $60? And you were offered a chance to kick in that amount in return for a sub, $50 worth of AUR and some "founders pack" gizmos, what then?

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member

    I'm 99% sure that sooner or later they will roll in Dust 514 into the PC EvE client.

     

    They have the avatar based gameplay tech and content already. Then expand with social features and walking on your ship, planets and space stations.

     

    Add fully customizable ship interiors, actually see you cargo on board, enter other ships with FPS style ship boarding action!

    Add small fighters which are twitch based / joystick controlled to the EvE universe!

     

    there, the best Sci Fi sandbox simulator ever made

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
    .


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    The Return of ELITE !
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  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member
    Originally posted by FromHell

    I'm 99% sure that sooner or later they will roll in Dust 514 into the PC EvE client.

     

    They have the avatar based gameplay tech and content already. Then expand with social features and walking on your ship, planets and space stations.

     

    Add fully customizable ship interiors, actually see you cargo on board, enter other ships with FPS style ship boarding action!

    Add small fighters which are twitch based / joystick controlled to the EvE universe!

     

    there, the best Sci Fi sandbox simulator ever made

    They already mentioned plans for spaceship interiors actually, you should be excited!

     

    However, the video was posted April 1st.  So clearly your idea is a joke to them and other EVE players such as myself.

     

    The joystick controlled anything in space is also a very very bad idea.

    El Psy Congroo

  • zimboy69zimboy69 chicargo, FLPosts: 375Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kadepsyson
    Originally posted by FromHell

    I'm 99% sure that sooner or later they will roll in Dust 514 into the PC EvE client.

     

    They have the avatar based gameplay tech and content already. Then expand with social features and walking on your ship, planets and space stations.

     

    Add fully customizable ship interiors, actually see you cargo on board, enter other ships with FPS style ship boarding action!

    Add small fighters which are twitch based / joystick controlled to the EvE universe!

     

    there, the best Sci Fi sandbox simulator ever made

    They already mentioned plans for spaceship interiors actually, you should be excited!

     

    However, the video was posted April 1st.  So clearly your idea is a joke to them and other EVE players such as myself.

     

    The joystick controlled anything in space is also a very very bad idea.

    its not acctual joystick control we want

    its more like instant control  where you can weave  and  dodge missiles and  use terain to hide behind

    just like what we see when we watch  starwars ,battlestar galactica

    it dosent matter if the control is joystick ,keyboard+mouse or  gamepad  its the instant control we need

     

    image

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by zimboy69
    Originally posted by kadepsyson
    Originally posted by FromHell

    I'm 99% sure that sooner or later they will roll in Dust 514 into the PC EvE client.

     

    They have the avatar based gameplay tech and content already. Then expand with social features and walking on your ship, planets and space stations.

     

    Add fully customizable ship interiors, actually see you cargo on board, enter other ships with FPS style ship boarding action!

    Add small fighters which are twitch based / joystick controlled to the EvE universe!

     

    there, the best Sci Fi sandbox simulator ever made

    They already mentioned plans for spaceship interiors actually, you should be excited!

     

    However, the video was posted April 1st.  So clearly your idea is a joke to them and other EVE players such as myself.

     

    The joystick controlled anything in space is also a very very bad idea.

    its not acctual joystick control we want

    its more like instant control  where you can weave  and  dodge missiles and  use terain to hide behind

    just like what we see when we watch  starwars ,battlestar galactica

    it dosent matter if the control is joystick ,keyboard+mouse or  gamepad  its the instant control we need

     

     

    It's a glorious dream, but doing that would be astoundingly resource-intensive. EVE's TQ server works at 1 "tick" per second, and your client extrapolates in the intermediate movements to give the illusion of smooth play. But in reality, you're sending 1 command set to the server every second, and receiving one update every second (assuming a good connection, no TiDi, etc).

    To do what you want would require multiplying that by a factor of 10-20.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • AyulinAyulin Mt marion, NYPosts: 334Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
    The people that do play eve are pretty entrenched in it and I doubt any of those titles will compare, at least for a long while.

    ooh argh never let your developers get away with that complacency.

    I can tell you from experience, the EVE community definitely will make it very clear when they feel the devs need to get back on track.

    lol yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

    "Complacent" isn't a word I would use to describe the core Eve playerbase.  Some of the more "casual' players, maybe. But those who are fully entrenched in the game, as Mike-McQueen puts it, are very vocal when they feel CCP has strayed off course.

     

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