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[Column] Elder Scrolls Online: An Argument for 'Faction Lock'

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  • acidbloodacidblood melbournePosts: 266Member Uncommon
    Scarificing RP for PvP in an Elder Scrolls game, sorry but just no... they could at least have a really long and difficult defection questline. I will not be giving Zenimax Online the benefit of the doubt as at this point they still have everything to prove as far as the design choices they have made. That said I do hope TES turns out to be a good game, as it is certainly looking like something a bit different, but in this case, IMHO, different isn't even close to better.
  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Distopia

     Do you even know where the term sandbox came from in reference to games? Sandbox mode.... AKA freeform build mode... BTW I am a SWG vet it's really the only MMO i've spent real time in (more than 6months to a year). I'm not coming from the perspective of a DAOC fan, open your mind a little jeez.....

    Do you even know that MMO developers from Raph Koster to Mark Jacobs could care less what your personal opinion of the word sandbox means, because they call it what it is.

    Even Jacobs, the man making the ACTUAL sequal to DaoC disagrees with you and wants to cut out as much of the Themepark from CU as possible meaning no invisible walls closing off factions, having an open world and losing the story driven crap and only having it in the background.

    So, even the maker of DaoC disagrees with you.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,916Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die even though there has only been that one game that did it. On that note im going to say something derp and go against the entire genres definition of sandbox and pretend there were none before Minecraft. P.S. lol

    Anyway, is your overall point that " with no faction lock TESO would be a sandbox"?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,916Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Distopia

     Do you even know where the term sandbox came from in reference to games? Sandbox mode.... AKA freeform build mode... BTW I am a SWG vet it's really the only MMO i've spent real time in (more than 6months to a year). I'm not coming from the perspective of a DAOC fan, open your mind a little jeez.....

    Do you even know that MMO developers from Raph Koster to Mark Jacobs could care less what your personal opinion of the word sandbox means, because they call it what it is.

    Even Jacobs, the man making the ACTUAL sequal to DaoC disagrees with you and wants to cut out as much of the Themepark from CU as possible meaning no invisible walls closing off factions, having an open world and losing the story driven crap and only having it in the background.

    So, even the maker of DaoC disagrees with you.

    DAOC was never a sandbox, SWG was....as well as UO so what the hell does this post mean?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk LiverpoolPosts: 976Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Distopia
     

    This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol

    It's more than just that, you're over simplifying it. We could start in on the class structure but that's not relevant to this column. We were asked to discuss the faction locks so that's what we're talking about.

    So, I'll demonstrate my problem with this by posing a simple question.

    Name a class based MMO that has 3 factions and features RvR combat.

    Now, anyone who answers this honestly and DOESN'T say Dark Age of Camelot has no clue about MMO's. That's my problem. We're looking at a MMO that is clearly based on a DAoC design philosophy and being welded to the TES IP, and it just doesn't fit right. There's just too many restrictions for it to be TES.

    They could have still had RvR, PvP or whatever in a TES MMO without modelling it on DAoC. I loved DAoC, don't get me wrong, but please, don't make an updated version of it and try and pass it off as a TES MMO.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,487Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol

    This has been the heart of the topic. There is a very small group of DaoC fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models DaoC to the level of it being themepark. And themepark means to be limited to race/faction behind invisible walls with funneled PvP content, done. So the no faction lock breaks DaoC and MMOs and is no longer a real PvP game or a game with pride. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die even though there has only been that one game that did it. On that note im going to say something derp and go against the entire genres definition of sandbox and pretend there were none before Minecraft. P.S. lol

    You dont even know what the term invisable walls mean in MMOs. Invisable walls are not the outside walls of the zone. Its where hills and shrubs and a car in the middle of the street seems to have walls that restrict you from jumping in or on top of it. Even though you char can jump high enough to get up it. It breaks imersion and exploring. Zone walls are a given even in the greatest sandbox games. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,121Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.

    A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.

    THAT IS THEMEPARK.

    In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.

    THAT IS SANDPARK.

    IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...

    You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.

    Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.

    Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?

    Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...

    Shop partnership, Housing/Heatths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.

    Good examples of sandbox gameplay would be something like Minecraft, the indie title Kenshi, sandbox modes in RTS games.

    TES is an excellent RP platform, but as far as sandbox game-play goes it offers little. Anyway if we want to discuss sandboxes and TES elements related to that lets do so in a topic devoted to that.

     

    This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol

    The onus is on Zenimax to either make an Elder Scrolls MMO or a bastardized version of Dark Age of Camelot.  A mediocre attempt at both will end up with a mediocre game overall.  They need to make up their mind quick or suffer dire consequences.  Considering that Camelot Unchained is being made and is a better fit for DAoC 2, they might want to give the Elder Scrolls fans' input more credence.

     

    image
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,487Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jmcdermottuk
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Distopia
     

    This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol

    It's more than just that, you're over simplifying it. We could start in on the class structure but that's not relevant to this column. We were asked to discuss the faction locks so that's what we're talking about.

    So, I'll demonstrate my problem with this by posing a simple question.

    Name a class based MMO that has 3 factions and features RvR combat.

    Now, anyone who answers this honestly and DOESN'T say Dark Age of Camelot has no clue about MMO's. That's my problem. We're looking at a MMO that is clearly based on a DAoC design philosophy and being welded to the TES IP, and it just doesn't fit right. There's just too many restrictions for it to be TES.

    They could have still had RvR, PvP or whatever in a TES MMO without modelling it on DAoC. I loved DAoC, don't get me wrong, but please, don't make an updated version of it and try and pass it off as a TES MMO.

    Yes the model is clearly DAoC 3 faction PvP. But thats it, rest is very TES and people who played it at PAX said so to. The classes are not taken from DAoC, the crafting is not, the quests are not, the story is clearly not DAoC. Only the 3 faction war is. Rest from story to combat is all TES. Whats your point? 3 factions does not stop this from being a TES MMO.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,487Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.

    A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.

    THAT IS THEMEPARK.

    In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.

    THAT IS SANDPARK.

    IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...

    You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.

    Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.

    Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?

    Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...

    Shop partnership, Housing/Heatths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.

    Good examples of sandbox gameplay would be something like Minecraft, the indie title Kenshi, sandbox modes in RTS games.

    TES is an excellent RP platform, but as far as sandbox game-play goes it offers little. Anyway if we want to discuss sandboxes and TES elements related to that lets do so in a topic devoted to that.

     

    This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol

    The onus is on Zenimax to either make an Elder Scrolls MMO or a bastardized version of Dark Age of Camelot.  They need to make up their mind quick or suffer dire consequences.  Considering that Camelot Unchained is being made and is a better fit for DAoC 2, they might want to give the Elder Scrolls fans' input more credence.

    CU is not DAoC2, it does not even have PvE and DAoC had some sick awesome PvE. I know lots of DAoC fans who wont even bother with CU and adding 3 faction DAoC model does not make ESO a DAoC2 game as well.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,121Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.

    A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.

    THAT IS THEMEPARK.

    In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.

    THAT IS SANDPARK.

    IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...

    You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.

    Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.

    Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?

    Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...

    Shop partnership, Housing/Heatths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.

    Good examples of sandbox gameplay would be something like Minecraft, the indie title Kenshi, sandbox modes in RTS games.

    TES is an excellent RP platform, but as far as sandbox game-play goes it offers little. Anyway if we want to discuss sandboxes and TES elements related to that lets do so in a topic devoted to that.

     

    This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol

    The onus is on Zenimax to either make an Elder Scrolls MMO or a bastardized version of Dark Age of Camelot.  They need to make up their mind quick or suffer dire consequences.  Considering that Camelot Unchained is being made and is a better fit for DAoC 2, they might want to give the Elder Scrolls fans' input more credence.

    CU is not DAoC2, it does not even have PvE and DAoC had some sick awesome PvE. I know lots of DAoC fans who wont even bother with CU and adding 3 faction DAoC model does not make ESO a DAoC2 game as well.

     

    Hate to break it to you, but it 'IS' being labeled by the developer and media outlets as the true and spiritual successor to Dark Age of Camelot.  No matter how much you cover your eyes, it won't change that fact.  As a matter of fact, they are even considering changing the game's name to Dark Age of Camelot 2.

     

    image
  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Distopia

     Do you even know where the term sandbox came from in reference to games? Sandbox mode.... AKA freeform build mode... BTW I am a SWG vet it's really the only MMO i've spent real time in (more than 6months to a year). I'm not coming from the perspective of a DAOC fan, open your mind a little jeez.....

    Do you even know that MMO developers from Raph Koster to Mark Jacobs could care less what your personal opinion of the word sandbox means, because they call it what it is.

    Even Jacobs, the man making the ACTUAL sequal to DaoC disagrees with you and wants to cut out as much of the Themepark from CU as possible meaning no invisible walls closing off factions, having an open world and losing the story driven crap and only having it in the background.

    So, even the maker of DaoC disagrees with you.

    DAOC was never a sandbox, SWG was....as well as UO so what the hell does this post mean?

    Reading, its fun da mental...I mean I was clearly stating that DaoC was a sandbox there...clearly.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,916Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
     

    Hate to break it to you, but it 'IS' being labeled by the developer and media outlets as the true and spiritual successor to Dark Age of Camelot.  No matter how much you cover your eyes, it won't change that fact.  As a matter of fact, they are even considering changing the game's name to Dark Age of Camelot 2.

     

    It's been made clear by MJ over and over he doesn't want people going on with such a mindset, he wants CU to stand on it's own two feet.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,487Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.

    A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.

    THAT IS THEMEPARK.

    In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.

    THAT IS SANDPARK.

    IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...

    You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.

    Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.

    Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?

    Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...

    Shop partnership, Housing/Heatths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.

    Good examples of sandbox gameplay would be something like Minecraft, the indie title Kenshi, sandbox modes in RTS games.

    TES is an excellent RP platform, but as far as sandbox game-play goes it offers little. Anyway if we want to discuss sandboxes and TES elements related to that lets do so in a topic devoted to that.

     

    This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol

    The onus is on Zenimax to either make an Elder Scrolls MMO or a bastardized version of Dark Age of Camelot.  They need to make up their mind quick or suffer dire consequences.  Considering that Camelot Unchained is being made and is a better fit for DAoC 2, they might want to give the Elder Scrolls fans' input more credence.

    CU is not DAoC2, it does not even have PvE and DAoC had some sick awesome PvE. I know lots of DAoC fans who wont even bother with CU and adding 3 faction DAoC model does not make ESO a DAoC2 game as well.

     

    Hate to break it to you, but it 'IS' being labeled by the developer and media outlets as the true and spiritual successor to Dark Age of Camelot.  No matter how much you cover your eyes, it won't change that fact.  As a matter of fact, they are even considering changing the game's name to Dark Age of Camelot 2.

     

    Ok so they cut out a battleground and called in DAoC2 after they chucked out all the other good stuff? Sure call it what you like does not make it so. Im a MMOer I need more.

    EDIT: And I am sure EA would love to make some money off that idea. They do own the name lol


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,916Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Distopia

     Do you even know where the term sandbox came from in reference to games? Sandbox mode.... AKA freeform build mode... BTW I am a SWG vet it's really the only MMO i've spent real time in (more than 6months to a year). I'm not coming from the perspective of a DAOC fan, open your mind a little jeez.....

    Do you even know that MMO developers from Raph Koster to Mark Jacobs could care less what your personal opinion of the word sandbox means, because they call it what it is.

    Even Jacobs, the man making the ACTUAL sequal to DaoC disagrees with you and wants to cut out as much of the Themepark from CU as possible meaning no invisible walls closing off factions, having an open world and losing the story driven crap and only having it in the background.

    So, even the maker of DaoC disagrees with you.

    DAOC was never a sandbox, SWG was....as well as UO so what the hell does this post mean?

    Reading, its fun da mental...I mean I was clearly stating that DaoC was a sandbox there...clearly.

    Again what? I didn't say you did, what I meant was DAOC was never a sandbox, so it's relevance as well as MJ's opinion meant absoltue crap to the topic. I was brushing it aside.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    CU is not DAoC2, it does not even have PvE and DAoC had some sick awesome PvE. I know lots of DAoC fans who wont even bother with CU and adding 3 faction DAoC model does not make ESO a DAoC2 game as well.

     

    Hate to break it to you, but it 'IS' being labeled by the developer and media outlets as the true and spiritual successor to Dark Age of Camelot.  No matter how much you cover your eyes, it won't change that fact.  As a matter of fact, they are even considering changing the game's name to Dark Age of Camelot 2.

     

    Actually they cant use DaoC 2. Nor can Zenimax...its an owned copywrite. Both the makers of CU and TESO wanted DaoC2 really badly but neither can do it which is why we are getting this kind of TESO and a game called Camelot Unchained.

    Basically Jacobs is leaving the horrible themepark from DaoC out of CU while the makers of TESO are clinging to it much to the missmay of a great many TES fans. But its ok, much like Bioware with SWTOR, they will learn the hard way what happens when you abuse a popular IP only with Zenimax, you dont have the many years worth of EA experience to get your investors under control to save your backside. And let me tell you, Jerry Bruckheimer and Leslie Moonves will push Altman right out the door over this...you can already see the preasure being placed on Zenimax studios at Pax over the TES fan outrage hitting the company with their talking about adding 1st person quickly to help quell the fans...only to piss them off even more because 1st person was rather low on the list of WTF ARE YOU DOINGS TO TES...

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • KyelthisKyelthis Phoenix, AZPosts: 284Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    TES was a themepark game so np there lol. Tell me its sandpark and I will laugh at you. TES had nothing you could do to build or shape the world in any way. The player was stuck picking what set of rails you wanted to follow. Only thing even close to sandbox about TES was the class system. So themepark fixes for a themepark origins. 

    Oh you are one of those...TES was a themepark because it had a story people...

    In TES you could make a character, go anywhere right from the start outside of perhaps 2% of the game locked by story and never once do a quest. There were no dungeons with mobs you couldnt kill right after character creation that werent just as tuff 100 hours into the game. You could pick up a tool and do nothing but gather and craft EVERY SINGLE CRAFTING skill up to max, no hinderence, no caps, nothing to stop you from doing it right from the start...no ore or materials in some high level zone, behing some massive uber boss mob requiring 40 people to kill in order to get that super special material to craft that uber item of godlyness. No developer hand holding telling me this race belongs to that faction, nothing limtiing my ability to play the way I WANT TO PLAY.

    It was a sandbox.

    Now go on, reply with a laugh and no actual refute with ACTUAL THINGS PROVING its a themepark...because you cant, it is a sandbox...skyrim even more so because the developers worked hand in hand with Mod sites to HELP PLAYERS MOD THE GAME and even got Steam to create a MOD STORE!

    Wrong, Oblivion changed this from the other games for whatever reason they had at the time, bad game design was all that was. Skyrim still kept this "NPCs leveling with the PC" to a certain degree, but was far less hand hold-ish than Oblivion. That's not to try and disprove anything you said by the way.

    As far as TES being a sandbox or a themepark, not that it really matters which it is since you either like the games or you don't, but it's been mostly a mix of both. Certain sandbox elements are in the game, but by no means is it a 100% sandbox. TESO actually has a sandbox element not seen in the series yet, using a skill makes it gain proficiency. The class system in both TESO and the single player games are based on themepark systems, not sandbox systems. The questing along with a central story line, no REAL permanent impact on the world with decisions you choose, no impact on the economy, and no ability to control lands, build on them, or form major alliances not "allowed" by the game make TES series games side more heavily on themeparks than sandboxes. The online game may change some of these, possibly the economy and territory controlling. 

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,121Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
     

    Hate to break it to you, but it 'IS' being labeled by the developer and media outlets as the true and spiritual successor to Dark Age of Camelot.  No matter how much you cover your eyes, it won't change that fact.  As a matter of fact, they are even considering changing the game's name to Dark Age of Camelot 2.

     

    It's been made clear by MJ over and over he doesn't want people going on with such a mindset, he wants CU to stand on it's own two feet.

    Then he did a complete 180 over the last couple of weeks as it was a comment from him that they were considering renaming it to DAoC 2.  I imagine he backpedaled like a lunatic after the furious blowback from the anouncement of no PvE and the incredulous responses that this could even be considered a spiritual successor to DAoC without it.  Imagine that, an argument very similar to what is happening here.

    image
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk LiverpoolPosts: 976Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by jmcdermottuk
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Distopia
     

    This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol

    It's more than just that, you're over simplifying it. We could start in on the class structure but that's not relevant to this column. We were asked to discuss the faction locks so that's what we're talking about.

    So, I'll demonstrate my problem with this by posing a simple question.

    Name a class based MMO that has 3 factions and features RvR combat.

    Now, anyone who answers this honestly and DOESN'T say Dark Age of Camelot has no clue about MMO's. That's my problem. We're looking at a MMO that is clearly based on a DAoC design philosophy and being welded to the TES IP, and it just doesn't fit right. There's just too many restrictions for it to be TES.

    They could have still had RvR, PvP or whatever in a TES MMO without modelling it on DAoC. I loved DAoC, don't get me wrong, but please, don't make an updated version of it and try and pass it off as a TES MMO.

    Yes the model is clearly DAoC 3 faction PvP. But thats it, rest is very TES and people who played it at PAX said so to. The classes are not taken from DAoC, the crafting is not, the quests are not, the story is clearly not DAoC. Only the 3 faction war is. Rest from story to combat is all TES. Whats your point? 3 factions does not stop this from being a TES MMO.

     

    Class restrictions does. Are you saying there are no class restrictions now? And as I pointed out, this column was about faction locks so I'm trying to  avoid the class v classless debate. I'm not the one wandering off topic here. So lets stick to the subject matter of the column and not get sidetracked by other issues.

     

    To quote Mr Bitton "How do you feel about faction lock in The Elder Scrolls Online? Can you see any ways that this could be a positive for the game? Share your thoughts with us in the comments below!"

    So to answer your (and his) question my point is this. 3 factions don't make it DAoC but locking people into them isn't being true to the TES IP.

    Denying people the opportunity to explore PvE beyond their starting location isn't true to the TES IP.

    Making a TES game based around the restrictions inherent to the design philosophy of a different game goes a very long way to stopping this from being a true TES MMO.

    And finally, if you'll excuse my bare faced cheek, to quote you "Yes the model is clearly DAoC 3 faction PvP." Well, that's clearly not TES is it? It's DAoC.

    Now, call me crazy and stuff my head in a bucket of shaving cream, but it looks to me like that's a bad fit.

    Now opinions will vary and mine is that this isn't the best way to design any MMO that aspires to the name The Elder Scrolls. I don't think I can make it any clearer than that. Obviously you are of a different opinion, and that's fine, we're all entitled to our own opinions after all. But those are my thoughts on the subject, for what they're worth.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,487Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
     

    Hate to break it to you, but it 'IS' being labeled by the developer and media outlets as the true and spiritual successor to Dark Age of Camelot.  No matter how much you cover your eyes, it won't change that fact.  As a matter of fact, they are even considering changing the game's name to Dark Age of Camelot 2.

     

    It's been made clear by MJ over and over he doesn't want people going on with such a mindset, he wants CU to stand on it's own two feet.

    Then he did a complete 180 over the last couple of weeks as it was a comment from him that they were considering renaming it to DAoC 2.

    Then he needs to play EA money to do so, they cant even fund their own game without kickstar. What a new Kickstar to buy the name DAoC? He was trying to cash in on the name and get more DAoC fans. I dont blame him but you wont see anyting happen in writing.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Faction locks FTW.
  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Vorthanion

    Then he did a complete 180 over the last couple of weeks as it was a comment from him that they were considering renaming it to DAoC 2.

    Then he needs to play EA money to do so, they cant even fund their own game without kickstar. What a new Kickstar to buy the name DAoC? He was trying to cash in on the name and get more DAoC fans. I dont blame him but you wont see anyting happen in writing.

    Sounds just a little like a company trying to cash in on another games name in order to make a new DaoC...only buttend backwards by tring to use TES fans to do it.

    Then again, maybe they WERE the smart ones and new that trying to make a new DaoC would fail because it was such a crap game and they knew they needed a new IP to leech off of with their piss poor game design that NOBODY ELSE WANTED TO EVEN COPY!

    Refute that...if DaoCs closed factions via invisible walls and funneled PvP was so great, why didnt anyone else use it? Yeah...

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Vorthanion

    Then he did a complete 180 over the last couple of weeks as it was a comment from him that they were considering renaming it to DAoC 2.

    Then he needs to play EA money to do so, they cant even fund their own game without kickstar. What a new Kickstar to buy the name DAoC? He was trying to cash in on the name and get more DAoC fans. I dont blame him but you wont see anyting happen in writing.

    Sounds just a little like a company trying to cash in on another games name in order to make a new DaoC...only buttend backwards by tring to use TES fans to do it.

    Then again, maybe they WERE the smart ones and new that trying to make a new DaoC would fail because it was such a crap game and they knew they needed a new IP to leech off of with their piss poor game design that NOBODY ELSE WANTED TO EVEN COPY!

    Refute that...if DaoCs closed factions via invisible walls and funneled PvP was so great, why didnt anyone else use it? Yeah...

     Because they all had their lips around the junk of another game called WoW.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    Sounds just a little like a company trying to cash in on another games name in order to make a new DaoC...only buttend backwards by tring to use TES fans to do it.

    Then again, maybe they WERE the smart ones and new that trying to make a new DaoC would fail because it was such a crap game and they knew they needed a new IP to leech off of with their piss poor game design that NOBODY ELSE WANTED TO EVEN COPY!

    Refute that...if DaoCs closed factions via invisible walls and funneled PvP was so great, why didnt anyone else use it? Yeah...

     Because they all had their lips around the junk of another game called WoW.

    Which didnt come out until long after DaoC...

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    Sounds just a little like a company trying to cash in on another games name in order to make a new DaoC...only buttend backwards by tring to use TES fans to do it.

    Then again, maybe they WERE the smart ones and new that trying to make a new DaoC would fail because it was such a crap game and they knew they needed a new IP to leech off of with their piss poor game design that NOBODY ELSE WANTED TO EVEN COPY!

    Refute that...if DaoCs closed factions via invisible walls and funneled PvP was so great, why didnt anyone else use it? Yeah...

     Because they all had their lips around the junk of another game called WoW.

    Which didnt come out until long after DaoC...

     It still is true...

  • jbombardjbombard SapporoPosts: 531Member Uncommon

    Personally it doesn't really bother me all that much, but...   The Elder Scrolls was about freedom and joining what factions you wanted was part of that.   It is really that simple.  The need for faction pride is understandable for PvP.  Basing it on race kind of does that.  Basing it on race also may help with balancing faction population.  Needing to identify an enemy is nonsense for reasons already listed in other comments above.  Some people just want to be able to choose the faction that they join.   So it is really simply about freedom vs. quality of pvp.  In any other MMORPG it wouldn't be a big deal, the fact that TES fans love TES because of the freedom it isn't hard to see why it is a big deal for them.

     

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