So you chuck out the story and quests in TES. Now what do you do thats so themepark that would keep people playing? Wander around not changing the world? Everything set up to tell the quests and story written. Its themepark. Welcome to the themepark MMO taken from its origins.
My character didn't touch any of the quests. He set off, found a place to live, hunted, crafted and stayed out of the faction fight. Sure sounds like an open system to me.
I don't see myself as being able to take pride in the fact that "we got wood elves." Whatever faction I wind up in will be determined by the race I play. Who or what that faction is will have nothing to do with the decision beyond that they have that race. This doesn't seem like it would engender much pride in the faction.
I'd rather pick my race, then pick my faction. Not do the second as part of the first.
Totally agree.
When all the Elves are armoured up, will we be able to tell them apart because they each have distinct looks (seeing as you can also craft otehr factions armours) or will we know because they glow red? If it is because they glow red then ANY race is just as suitable an opponent as any other. So locking a race into a faction so we 'know who the enemy is' is a void argument.
The fight is based on yor faction, not your race. It just so happens taht we cannot choose race and faction seperately.
This article didn't mention it, but we're still limited in grouping and socializing outside factions. Sure, after 50 I can go outside my region, but I'll have to play solo until then since my friends/family won't play my race/faction. Might as well play Skyrim then.
Here's another game I won't be buying. I'll just wait for The Repopulation.
Also, to prove the other TES games were sandbox...On my second or third playthough of Oblivion, I never once went near the portals. I did everything else in the game, maxed out all the skills, and went to all the places. Put in a bunch of mods and played those. I still haven't finished Skyrim, I'm about 1/2 way through the story. I enjoy just walking around doing all the side dungeons and quests and my crafting and skills are nearly maxed. This is not a themepark since it's not holding my hand saying "you need to go over here now and finsih this".
I really can't say I'm surprised to find, on this site more than the others I frequent, that there's been written yet another article for another game making arguments on behalf of developers.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
So you chuck out the story and quests in TES. Now what do you do thats so themepark that would keep people playing? Wander around not changing the world? Everything set up to tell the quests and story written. Its themepark. Welcome to the themepark MMO taken from its origins.
My character didn't touch any of the quests. He set off, found a place to live, hunted, crafted and stayed out of the faction fight. Sure sounds like an open system to me.
Sounds like a nice bed time story my monther made up. Or someone who never played the game. (((shrugs)))
This article didn't mention it, but we're still limited in grouping and socializing outside factions. Sure, after 50 I can go outside my region, but I'll have to play solo until then since my friends/family won't play my race/faction. Might as well play Skyrim then.
Here's another game I won't be buying. I'll just wait for The Repopulation.
Also, to prove the other TES games were sandbox...On my second or third playthough of Oblivion, I never once went near the portals. I did everything else in the game, maxed out all the skills, and went to all the places. Put in a bunch of mods and played those. I still haven't finished Skyrim, I'm about 1/2 way through the story. I enjoy just walking around doing all the side dungeons and quests and my crafting and skills are nearly maxed. This is not a themepark since it's not holding my hand saying "you need to go over here now and finsih this".
And if my guild and friends want to play the Hord and I wana be a Gnome in WoW, how is that different? Lots of MMOs make you pick a faction. You cant think they can add group play to the TES and call it a MMO. They had to remove things from the single player game that dont fit a MMO and add things that are needed to make it a MMO. This is a moot as its common in many MMOs.
Originally posted by Ktara Nanfoodle, let me guess. You're one of those that finished Skyrim in 10 hours, right?
I played the TES games to death over and over again and again. Replayed value to the max but Skyrim is the only one I didnt play because it was rated M. I dont play M rated games and no I am not 10 years old. I am a middle aged married man who does not agree with excessive violence and I am not a fan of blood and gore.
Originally posted by Ktara Nanfoodle, let me guess. You're one of those that finished Skyrim in 10 hours, right?
I played the TES games to death over and over again and again. Replayed value to the max but Skyrim is the only one I didnt play because it was rated M. I dont play M rated games and no I am not 10 years old. I am a middle aged married man who does not agree with excessive violence and I am not a fan of blood and gore.
And I quote...
"Sounds like a nice bed time story my monther made up. Or someone who never played the game. (((shrugs)))"
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Oh you are one of those...TES was a themepark because it had a story people...
In TES you could make a character, go anywhere right from the start outside of perhaps 2% of the game locked by story and never once do a quest. There were no dungeons with mobs you couldnt kill right after character creation that werent just as tuff 100 hours into the game. You could pick up a tool and do nothing but gather and craft EVERY SINGLE CRAFTING skill up to max, no hinderence, no caps, nothing to stop you from doing it right from the start...no ore or materials in some high level zone, behing some massive uber boss mob requiring 40 people to kill in order to get that super special material to craft that uber item of godlyness. No developer hand holding telling me this race belongs to that faction, nothing limtiing my ability to play the way I WANT TO PLAY.
It was a sandbox.
Now go on, reply with a laugh and no actual refute with ACTUAL THINGS PROVING its a themepark...because you cant, it is a sandbox...skyrim even more so because the developers worked hand in hand with Mod sites to HELP PLAYERS MOD THE GAME and even got Steam to create a MOD STORE!
So you chuck out the story and quests in TES. Now what do you do thats so themepark that would keep people playing? Wander around not changing the world? Everything set up to tell the quests and story written. Its themepark. Welcome to the themepark MMO taken from its origins.
You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.
A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.
THAT IS THEMEPARK.
In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.
THAT IS SANDPARK.
IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...
You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
This article didn't mention it, but we're still limited in grouping and socializing outside factions. Sure, after 50 I can go outside my region, but I'll have to play solo until then since my friends/family won't play my race/faction. Might as well play Skyrim then.
Here's another game I won't be buying. I'll just wait for The Repopulation.
Also, to prove the other TES games were sandbox...On my second or third playthough of Oblivion, I never once went near the portals. I did everything else in the game, maxed out all the skills, and went to all the places. Put in a bunch of mods and played those. I still haven't finished Skyrim, I'm about 1/2 way through the story. I enjoy just walking around doing all the side dungeons and quests and my crafting and skills are nearly maxed. This is not a themepark since it's not holding my hand saying "you need to go over here now and finsih this".
And if my guild and friends want to play the Hord and I wana be a Gnome in WoW, how is that different? Lots of MMOs make you pick a faction. You cant think they can add group play to the TES and call it a MMO. They had to remove things from the single player game that dont fit a MMO and add things that are needed to make it a MMO. This is a moot as its common in many MMOs.
I'm not in a guild, nor do I wish to be. I'd like to play this with my son and boyfriend, but they want to play other factions. Therefore either two of us settle for playing a race we don't want to to appease the 3rd person, or we all play solo. It's just not worth the money when we can play The Repopulation together without any of these restrictions.
And if my guild and friends want to play the Hord and I wana be a Gnome in WoW, how is that different? Lots of MMOs make you pick a faction. You cant think they can add group play to the TES and call it a MMO. They had to remove things from the single player game that dont fit a MMO and add things that are needed to make it a MMO. This is a moot as its common in many MMOs.
In Warcraft there was a clear line drawn between factions long before WoW was released...and in WoW there are no invisible walls closing off factions and the world from each other no was everyone funneled into a central PvP area while still trying to claim the WORLD WAS AT WAR!
And much like in WoW, when BC was released and the horde got Elves, PvP didnt suddenly come to a stop with the Alliance players heads filled with derp because they could no longer understand who the enemy was just because the other side had elves too!
Thanks for furthering OUR POINT...TESO has a piss poor game design.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
This article didn't mention it, but we're still limited in grouping and socializing outside factions. Sure, after 50 I can go outside my region, but I'll have to play solo until then since my friends/family won't play my race/faction. Might as well play Skyrim then.
Here's another game I won't be buying. I'll just wait for The Repopulation.
Also, to prove the other TES games were sandbox...On my second or third playthough of Oblivion, I never once went near the portals. I did everything else in the game, maxed out all the skills, and went to all the places. Put in a bunch of mods and played those. I still haven't finished Skyrim, I'm about 1/2 way through the story. I enjoy just walking around doing all the side dungeons and quests and my crafting and skills are nearly maxed. This is not a themepark since it's not holding my hand saying "you need to go over here now and finsih this".
And if my guild and friends want to play the Hord and I wana be a Gnome in WoW, how is that different? Lots of MMOs make you pick a faction. You cant think they can add group play to the TES and call it a MMO. They had to remove things from the single player game that dont fit a MMO and add things that are needed to make it a MMO. This is a moot as its common in many MMOs.
Lots of MMO's do make you pick a faction, but that not what makes them MMO's. You say things had to be taken out of the SRPG that don't fit a MMO. Like what exactly? Wandering around alone gathering mats and crafting? I seem to recall doing a metric ton of that in SWG.
And "add things that are needed to make it a MMO". Needed eh? Show me the MMO Makers Handbook and the chapter that says "You must have Factions". Factions are something that have been thrown into MMO's as a plot device to explain the presence of PvP. They are not needed to make a MMO. I played EQ on a PvE server and the only PvP to be seen was if two people had a duel. There were no factions you had to join or fight for over some arbitrary piece of game lore.
This is not moot because it is "common in many MMO's", it just shows a lack of imagination in devs who can't come up with something better, different or more interesting. There is no reason at all why you need to have factions in order for it to be a MMO. You don't even need factions to explain away PvP.
EVE online has had full on FFA PvP since day one without factions. There were NPC Empires, yes,but they had absolutely zero impact on the game play. It was all player driven. The only NPC faction you had to worry about in EVE was the Concord police in Empire high security space, because they'd shoot you if you started fighting.
I love the fact this game is going to be faction locked. I can clearly identify the opposing factions (mentioned in article). Also, the way the are doing it will open up more pve stuff for me in the wife. Everyone is going to cry about different aspects of the game. I will preorder two CE version of this game and enjoy it while haters do what they do best. HATE. There are a bunch of mmo's coming out. Move on if this faction lock is a killer.
I love the fact this game is going to be faction locked. I can clearly identify the opposing factions (mentioned in article). Also, the way the are doing it will open up more pve stuff for me in the wife. Everyone is going to cry about different aspects of the game. I will preorder two CE version of this game and enjoy it while haters do what they do best. HATE. There are a bunch of mmo's coming out. Move on if this faction lock is a killer.
People will move on. But people also like to express why to justfy their opinion rather then some who simply could care less about the game actually being a game world that makes sense. I guess some people like to just press buttons to get their monkey reward.
Oh you are one of those...TES was a themepark because it had a story people...
In TES you could make a character, go anywhere right from the start outside of perhaps 2% of the game locked by story and never once do a quest. There were no dungeons with mobs you couldnt kill right after character creation that werent just as tuff 100 hours into the game. You could pick up a tool and do nothing but gather and craft EVERY SINGLE CRAFTING skill up to max, no hinderence, no caps, nothing to stop you from doing it right from the start...no ore or materials in some high level zone, behing some massive uber boss mob requiring 40 people to kill in order to get that super special material to craft that uber item of godlyness. No developer hand holding telling me this race belongs to that faction, nothing limtiing my ability to play the way I WANT TO PLAY.
It was a sandbox.
Now go on, reply with a laugh and no actual refute with ACTUAL THINGS PROVING its a themepark...because you cant, it is a sandbox...skyrim even more so because the developers worked hand in hand with Mod sites to HELP PLAYERS MOD THE GAME and even got Steam to create a MOD STORE!
So you chuck out the story and quests in TES. Now what do you do thats so themepark that would keep people playing? Wander around not changing the world? Everything set up to tell the quests and story written. Its themepark. Welcome to the themepark MMO taken from its origins.
You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.
A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.
THAT IS THEMEPARK.
In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.
THAT IS SANDPARK.
IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...
You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.
No sounds like you dont know what sandbox is. The ability to explore anywhere dose not make a sandbox game. You need to be able to change the world by building and changing the landscape (cut down a forest to build a town), add your own story, free form crafting, basicly walk out in the world and not have a path set for you but still have the ability to do something other the grind to top level. Maybe you could say TES had a few things that were sandboxish but it still was 90% on rails. Join "The Hand" and your path is set till the end of that story. Or pick to do 4 stories at the same time but you were still on rails. Big bad guy at the end of the game can only be reached by following the rails set to that goal.
Sure you could walk out into the world and not do any of the quests, cut down wolves and deer all day long and pick flowers to make things but how have you changed the world? You didnt! Thats because unless you follow the story nothing can change. Its a themepark.
By your definition of themepark Warhammer, Everquest and any other game that had a persistent world and no starting area is a sandbox game, all because you could skip the quests and walk out into the world and grind to level XX. Really? Dont take much to please you does it. Sandbox is much more then that. Just google "definition MMO sandbox" and read for 10-30 min and you will see. Developers need to hand over some creative rights to the player to be a sandbox game.
I like race lock etc. I mean yeah they could do it more differently, but it's obvious they want an RVR game! Since they do, it is the best way to handle it.
"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied." ^MMORPG.com
You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.
A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.
THAT IS THEMEPARK.
In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.
THAT IS SANDPARK.
IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...
You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.
Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.
Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?
Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...
Shop partnership, Housing/Hearths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.
Good examples of sandbox gameplay would be something like Minecraft, the indie title Kenshi, sandbox modes in RTS games.
TES is an excellent RP platform, but as far as sandbox game-play goes it offers little. Anyway if we want to discuss sandboxes and TES elements related to that lets do so in a topic devoted to that.
A quick question before I end this, if this zone lock didn't exist, do you think that would make TEs a sandbox MMO?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This article didn't mention it, but we're still limited in grouping and socializing outside factions. Sure, after 50 I can go outside my region, but I'll have to play solo until then since my friends/family won't play my race/faction. Might as well play Skyrim then.
Here's another game I won't be buying. I'll just wait for The Repopulation.
Also, to prove the other TES games were sandbox...On my second or third playthough of Oblivion, I never once went near the portals. I did everything else in the game, maxed out all the skills, and went to all the places. Put in a bunch of mods and played those. I still haven't finished Skyrim, I'm about 1/2 way through the story. I enjoy just walking around doing all the side dungeons and quests and my crafting and skills are nearly maxed. This is not a themepark since it's not holding my hand saying "you need to go over here now and finsih this".
And if my guild and friends want to play the Hord and I wana be a Gnome in WoW, how is that different? Lots of MMOs make you pick a faction. You cant think they can add group play to the TES and call it a MMO. They had to remove things from the single player game that dont fit a MMO and add things that are needed to make it a MMO. This is a moot as its common in many MMOs.
I'm not in a guild, nor do I wish to be. I'd like to play this with my son and boyfriend, but they want to play other factions. Therefore either two of us settle for playing a race we don't want to to appease the 3rd person, or we all play solo. It's just not worth the money when we can play The Repopulation together without any of these restrictions.
14 years of MMOing and only a few times I got to play the faction/race/class I wanted. For me its been play what I want or play with my friends. The norm has been my 2nd of 3rd choise for what I wanted to play. Never upset me besides meanful choices are what make games worth playing. Would could make everyting generic and everything that same. All quest options have a happy ending that have no impact on your char so you dont feel left out of all options. But that would not be much of a RPG would it? The replay value would suck. I rather a hard decision in my game that made me wonder what the rest of the game was like after that choise then options dont matter. IMO ZM did the right thing and man people are gona wana reply this to death.
You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.
A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.
THAT IS THEMEPARK.
In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.
THAT IS SANDPARK.
IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...
You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.
Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.
Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?
Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...
Shop partnership, Housing/Heatths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.
Good examples of sandbox gameplay would be something like Minecraft, the indie title Kenshi, sandbox modes in RTS games.
TES is an excellent RP platform, but as far as sandbox game-play goes it offers little. Anyway if we want to discuss sandboxes and TES elements related to that lets do so in a topic devoted to that.
This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol
Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.
Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?
Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...
Shop partnership, Housing/Heatths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.
Another one that doesnt know what sandbox means.
Sandbox means its OPEN, not restricted.
SWGs sandbox was for PLAYERS to CREATE and make the world alive. SANDBOX, CLEAN PLAYING FIELD FOR YOU TO MAKE WHAT YOU WISH.
Themepark = DEVELOPER created content, Guiderail, Funneled, handheld content. Little room to play the way YOU want, you have to play the way THEY want.
It seems rather clear that DaoC players have limited MMO experience based on continually needing a developer to hold their hands and tell them how to play...otherwise they are lost...guess thats why they believe that if two factions have the same race, you will be too confused to be able to fight.
BTW, non-linear story is not the same thing as having an open world where you have to advance the story to play. That is a NON-LINEAR WORLD...and yes, you must not be restricted by the story for it to be sandbox...Ultima Online, Asherons Call, Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies...all SANDBOX MMOs, not restricted to story.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.
A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.
THAT IS THEMEPARK.
In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.
THAT IS SANDPARK.
IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...
You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.
Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.
Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?
Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...
Shop partnership, Housing/Heatths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.
Good examples of sandbox gameplay would be something like Minecraft, the indie title Kenshi, sandbox modes in RTS games.
TES is an excellent RP platform, but as far as sandbox game-play goes it offers little. Anyway if we want to discuss sandboxes and TES elements related to that lets do so in a topic devoted to that.
This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol
Yea that's pretty much why i said that, as an open world wouldn't make TESO any more sandbox than it is now.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.
Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?
Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...
Shop partnership, Housing/Heatths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.
Another one that doesnt know what sandbox means.
Sandbox means its OPEN, not restricted.
SWGs sandbox was for PLAYERS to CREATE and make the world alive. SANDBOX, CLEAN PLAYING FIELD FOR YOU TO MAKE WHAT YOU WISH.
Themepark = DEVELOPER created content, Guiderail, Funneled, handheld content. Little room to play the way YOU want, you have to play the way THEY want.
It seems rather clear that DaoC players have limited MMO experience based on continually needing a developer to hold their hands and tell them how to play...otherwise they are lost...guess thats why they believe that if two factions have the same race, you will be too confused to be able to fight.
BTW, non-linear story is not the same thing as having an open world where you have to advance the story to play. That is a NON-LINEAR WORLD...and yes, you must not be restricted by the story for it to be sandbox...Ultima Online, Asherons Call, Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies...all SANDBOX MMOs, not restricted to story.
Do you even know where the term sandbox came from in reference to games? Sandbox mode.... AKA freeform build mode... BTW I am a SWG vet it's really the only MMO i've spent real time in (more than 6months to a year). I'm not coming from the perspective of a DAOC fan, open your mind a little jeez.....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol
This has been the heart of the topic. There is a very small group of DaoC fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models DaoC to the level of it being themepark. And themepark means to be limited to race/faction behind invisible walls with funneled PvP content, done. So the no faction lock breaks DaoC and MMOs and is no longer a real PvP game or a game with pride. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die even though there has only been that one game that did it. On that note im going to say something derp and go against the entire genres definition of sandbox and pretend there were none before Minecraft. P.S. lol
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Comments
My character didn't touch any of the quests. He set off, found a place to live, hunted, crafted and stayed out of the faction fight. Sure sounds like an open system to me.
Totally agree.
When all the Elves are armoured up, will we be able to tell them apart because they each have distinct looks (seeing as you can also craft otehr factions armours) or will we know because they glow red? If it is because they glow red then ANY race is just as suitable an opponent as any other. So locking a race into a faction so we 'know who the enemy is' is a void argument.
The fight is based on yor faction, not your race. It just so happens taht we cannot choose race and faction seperately.
This article didn't mention it, but we're still limited in grouping and socializing outside factions. Sure, after 50 I can go outside my region, but I'll have to play solo until then since my friends/family won't play my race/faction. Might as well play Skyrim then.
Here's another game I won't be buying. I'll just wait for The Repopulation.
Also, to prove the other TES games were sandbox...On my second or third playthough of Oblivion, I never once went near the portals. I did everything else in the game, maxed out all the skills, and went to all the places. Put in a bunch of mods and played those. I still haven't finished Skyrim, I'm about 1/2 way through the story. I enjoy just walking around doing all the side dungeons and quests and my crafting and skills are nearly maxed. This is not a themepark since it's not holding my hand saying "you need to go over here now and finsih this".
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Sounds like a nice bed time story my monther made up. Or someone who never played the game. (((shrugs)))
And if my guild and friends want to play the Hord and I wana be a Gnome in WoW, how is that different? Lots of MMOs make you pick a faction. You cant think they can add group play to the TES and call it a MMO. They had to remove things from the single player game that dont fit a MMO and add things that are needed to make it a MMO. This is a moot as its common in many MMOs.
I played the TES games to death over and over again and again. Replayed value to the max but Skyrim is the only one I didnt play because it was rated M. I dont play M rated games and no I am not 10 years old. I am a middle aged married man who does not agree with excessive violence and I am not a fan of blood and gore.
And I quote...
"Sounds like a nice bed time story my monther made up. Or someone who never played the game. (((shrugs)))"
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
You dont even know what sandbox means let alone themepark.
A Themepark story driven game requires you to do the story to advance. EXAMPLE. In KOTOR you cannot even leave the starting area until you complete the storyline...nor can you move from the first world to the second or from there to ANY OTHER WORLD until you unlock them via storyline.
THAT IS THEMEPARK.
In TES, the WORLD is OPEN without even doing a SINGLE QUEST.
THAT IS SANDPARK.
IN TESO you cannot move forward until you are the correct level and it keeps funnelling you throught the invisible walled in faction right to the center, where they placed the war, you know, the war...which the ENTIRE world is taking part in yet everyone is fighting only at this magical place in the center...
You dont get it, because you dont know what they even are...or you are trolling.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I'm not in a guild, nor do I wish to be. I'd like to play this with my son and boyfriend, but they want to play other factions. Therefore either two of us settle for playing a race we don't want to to appease the 3rd person, or we all play solo. It's just not worth the money when we can play The Repopulation together without any of these restrictions.
In Warcraft there was a clear line drawn between factions long before WoW was released...and in WoW there are no invisible walls closing off factions and the world from each other no was everyone funneled into a central PvP area while still trying to claim the WORLD WAS AT WAR!
And much like in WoW, when BC was released and the horde got Elves, PvP didnt suddenly come to a stop with the Alliance players heads filled with derp because they could no longer understand who the enemy was just because the other side had elves too!
Thanks for furthering OUR POINT...TESO has a piss poor game design.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Lots of MMO's do make you pick a faction, but that not what makes them MMO's. You say things had to be taken out of the SRPG that don't fit a MMO. Like what exactly? Wandering around alone gathering mats and crafting? I seem to recall doing a metric ton of that in SWG.
And "add things that are needed to make it a MMO". Needed eh? Show me the MMO Makers Handbook and the chapter that says "You must have Factions". Factions are something that have been thrown into MMO's as a plot device to explain the presence of PvP. They are not needed to make a MMO. I played EQ on a PvE server and the only PvP to be seen was if two people had a duel. There were no factions you had to join or fight for over some arbitrary piece of game lore.
This is not moot because it is "common in many MMO's", it just shows a lack of imagination in devs who can't come up with something better, different or more interesting. There is no reason at all why you need to have factions in order for it to be a MMO. You don't even need factions to explain away PvP.
EVE online has had full on FFA PvP since day one without factions. There were NPC Empires, yes,but they had absolutely zero impact on the game play. It was all player driven. The only NPC faction you had to worry about in EVE was the Concord police in Empire high security space, because they'd shoot you if you started fighting.
I fail to see the logic of your argument.
I love the fact this game is going to be faction locked. I can clearly identify the opposing factions (mentioned in article). Also, the way the are doing it will open up more pve stuff for me in the wife. Everyone is going to cry about different aspects of the game. I will preorder two CE version of this game and enjoy it while haters do what they do best. HATE. There are a bunch of mmo's coming out. Move on if this faction lock is a killer.
People will move on. But people also like to express why to justfy their opinion rather then some who simply could care less about the game actually being a game world that makes sense. I guess some people like to just press buttons to get their monkey reward.
No sounds like you dont know what sandbox is. The ability to explore anywhere dose not make a sandbox game. You need to be able to change the world by building and changing the landscape (cut down a forest to build a town), add your own story, free form crafting, basicly walk out in the world and not have a path set for you but still have the ability to do something other the grind to top level. Maybe you could say TES had a few things that were sandboxish but it still was 90% on rails. Join "The Hand" and your path is set till the end of that story. Or pick to do 4 stories at the same time but you were still on rails. Big bad guy at the end of the game can only be reached by following the rails set to that goal.
Sure you could walk out into the world and not do any of the quests, cut down wolves and deer all day long and pick flowers to make things but how have you changed the world? You didnt! Thats because unless you follow the story nothing can change. Its a themepark.
By your definition of themepark Warhammer, Everquest and any other game that had a persistent world and no starting area is a sandbox game, all because you could skip the quests and walk out into the world and grind to level XX. Really? Dont take much to please you does it. Sandbox is much more then that. Just google "definition MMO sandbox" and read for 10-30 min and you will see. Developers need to hand over some creative rights to the player to be a sandbox game.
"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com
Actually in KOTOR, that is only the case until you complete your Jedi initiation then you're pretty much free to do as you please story wise until you reach the end.
Regardless a non linear story means sandbox?
Lets look at TES sandbox elements for a second...
Shop partnership, Housing/Hearths Fire, Marriage/family, the crime system/jails etc..., these are sandbox elements but the way they're implemented outside of the crime system, it's completely static, it really doesn't create gameplay outside of roleplaying.
Good examples of sandbox gameplay would be something like Minecraft, the indie title Kenshi, sandbox modes in RTS games.
TES is an excellent RP platform, but as far as sandbox game-play goes it offers little. Anyway if we want to discuss sandboxes and TES elements related to that lets do so in a topic devoted to that.
A quick question before I end this, if this zone lock didn't exist, do you think that would make TEs a sandbox MMO?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
14 years of MMOing and only a few times I got to play the faction/race/class I wanted. For me its been play what I want or play with my friends. The norm has been my 2nd of 3rd choise for what I wanted to play. Never upset me besides meanful choices are what make games worth playing. Would could make everyting generic and everything that same. All quest options have a happy ending that have no impact on your char so you dont feel left out of all options. But that would not be much of a RPG would it? The replay value would suck. I rather a hard decision in my game that made me wonder what the rest of the game was like after that choise then options dont matter. IMO ZM did the right thing and man people are gona wana reply this to death.
This has been the heart of the topic. There is a group of TSE fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models TES to the level of it being sandbox. And sandbox means to be able to wander anywhere, done. So the faction lock breaks ESO and is no longer a real TES game. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die. On that note Minecraft is a sandbox game and I am glad someone knows what that means lol
Another one that doesnt know what sandbox means.
Sandbox means its OPEN, not restricted.
SWGs sandbox was for PLAYERS to CREATE and make the world alive. SANDBOX, CLEAN PLAYING FIELD FOR YOU TO MAKE WHAT YOU WISH.
Themepark = DEVELOPER created content, Guiderail, Funneled, handheld content. Little room to play the way YOU want, you have to play the way THEY want.
It seems rather clear that DaoC players have limited MMO experience based on continually needing a developer to hold their hands and tell them how to play...otherwise they are lost...guess thats why they believe that if two factions have the same race, you will be too confused to be able to fight.
BTW, non-linear story is not the same thing as having an open world where you have to advance the story to play. That is a NON-LINEAR WORLD...and yes, you must not be restricted by the story for it to be sandbox...Ultima Online, Asherons Call, Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies...all SANDBOX MMOs, not restricted to story.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Yea that's pretty much why i said that, as an open world wouldn't make TESO any more sandbox than it is now.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Do you even know where the term sandbox came from in reference to games? Sandbox mode.... AKA freeform build mode... BTW I am a SWG vet it's really the only MMO i've spent real time in (more than 6months to a year). I'm not coming from the perspective of a DAOC fan, open your mind a little jeez.....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This has been the heart of the topic. There is a very small group of DaoC fans who think you cant have a good game unless it models DaoC to the level of it being themepark. And themepark means to be limited to race/faction behind invisible walls with funneled PvP content, done. So the no faction lock breaks DaoC and MMOs and is no longer a real PvP game or a game with pride. Its a crazy loop that never seems to die even though there has only been that one game that did it. On that note im going to say something derp and go against the entire genres definition of sandbox and pretend there were none before Minecraft. P.S. lol
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson