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[Dev Journal] Neverwinter: Character Progression in the Spotlight

2

Comments

  • Sho0terMcgavinSho0terMcgavin Harrisburg, PAPosts: 301Member
    I can not wait for april 27th!  

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  • mrbreckmrbreck Huntsville, ALPosts: 24Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by koboldfodder

    This is a Cryptic game.  This is what they do.  This is what they have always done.  This is what they are known for.  Small, action based games with no real lore or intrigue where you do not have to think but just hit a few buttons and go on to the next area.

    City of Heroes was an excellent game, but by no means was it a deep game or have any real substance (other than the Invention Origins systems which came later).

    Champions Onlins is basically the same way.  A little action game where you make a couple of choices but that is about it.  Again, nothing wrong with that.

     

    The problem comes when Cryptic somehow acquires the IPs for two of the most storied, lore friendly franchises of all time.  Star Trek, which has 50 years attached to it and the Forgotten Realms which has massive amounts of written lore.

     

    The people who love those two franchises do so because of the rich history that goes along with each universe.

     

    But Cryptic does what they always do, make little action based games.  Is there a true fan of Star Trek who can actually play STO and say it is a faithful adaptation to the Star Trek universe?  Hell no.  Is there a true fan of either D&D or the Forgotten Realms who can honestly say that Neverwinter represents the best of the Forgotten Realms?  Of course not.

     

    They went 4th edition because it's easy to do.  Cryptic does easy things.  They do not spend time on developing complex gaming systems or games with true depth.

     

    How could anyone actually think this game would turn out to be anything other than an instanced based, lobby-level grind, F2P money grab?  Especially when every game is a precedent.  PWE buying them made them even more of what they are.

     

     

    Typical Cryptic hate bandwagon nonsense from someone who has obviously not played a Cryptic game for more than 10 minutes.  CoH and Champions both have extremely robust character customization, in terms of both appearance and gameplay (STO I have never played so I can't comment there, but I do know it has extremely robust appearance customization). Champions especially, if you put the slightest effort into your character you will never see someone else that looks the same, and the gameplay systems are very deep, allowing you to mix and match powers and stats just about any way you like to fit your gaming style and still be effective (of course there are ways to maximize effectiveness by ignoring theme, but such a thing is unavoidable in any system based on math, and it's overkill for any of the content in the game).

    Personally, I loved both CoH and Champions. And I have absolutely zero connection with the history of either IP. They are both great games. The problem with both games that seems to be a running gag with Cryptic is that they were abandoned shortly after launch and received very minimal content updates and bug fixes. In fact, I would say that is the only real problem with either game: extreme lack of content and development time.

    Cryptic makes great games. They just suck at longevity.

    Having said all that, NWO does NOT feel like a Cryptic game. Character customization is extremely lacking in all areas. The character models are terrible and lifeless and all look inbred. Appearance customization is very minimal. There is no choice in armor appearance and every new piece you find looks identical to the last piece. Skill selection is very limited and unbalanced. Feats are nothing more than tiny math trees that give marginal performance boosts.

    To me, it reeks of a cheap, hastly assembled F2P asian game that you typically see from Perfect World. Many of the systems are direct copies from a typical asian grinder and from what I have seen, there will be similar cash shop shenanigans as well.

    For the first time, I would say that Cryptic has made a poor game. Which, if you ask me, goes AGAINST their track record. And I think we have Perfect World to blame for that.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Sho0terMcgavin
    I can not wait for april 27th!  

    same see you then:)

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • BeyornBeyorn Canton, GAPosts: 249Member Uncommon

    Highjack!!

    Is this the open beta or we have to be invited into this one too?

     

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Beyorn

    Highjack!!

    Is this the open beta or we have to be invited into this one too?

     

    open beta starts the 30th

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • SeptdeezSeptdeez Gilbert, AZPosts: 21Member
    this is full of win
  • NobleNerdNobleNerd Wolcott, NYPosts: 671Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by koboldfodder

    This is a Cryptic game.  This is what they do.  This is what they have always done.  This is what they are known for.  Small, action based games with no real lore or intrigue where you do not have to think but just hit a few buttons and go on to the next area.

    City of Heroes was an excellent game, but by no means was it a deep game or have any real substance (other than the Invention Origins systems which came later).

    Champions Onlins is basically the same way.  A little action game where you make a couple of choices but that is about it.  Again, nothing wrong with that.

     

    The problem comes when Cryptic somehow acquires the IPs for two of the most storied, lore friendly franchises of all time.  Star Trek, which has 50 years attached to it and the Forgotten Realms which has massive amounts of written lore.

     

    The people who love those two franchises do so because of the rich history that goes along with each universe.

     

    But Cryptic does what they always do, make little action based games.  Is there a true fan of Star Trek who can actually play STO and say it is a faithful adaptation to the Star Trek universe?  Hell no.  Is there a true fan of either D&D or the Forgotten Realms who can honestly say that Neverwinter represents the best of the Forgotten Realms?  Of course not.

     

    They went 4th edition because it's easy to do.  Cryptic does easy things.  They do not spend time on developing complex gaming systems or games with true depth.

     

    How could anyone actually think this game would turn out to be anything other than an instanced based, lobby-level grind, F2P money grab?  Especially when every game is a precedent.  PWE buying them made them even more of what they are.

     

     

     Completely agree with your points. PWE and Cryptic are not even in my top 10 of gaming companies I like or trust. Being a D&D fan I can say after spending time in beta that this game does not deserve the D&D title in it. It does not represent the true lore and nature of a D&D or Forgotten Realms world. 

     

       After playing the game I can say that I enjoyed my time in the game. The combat (though simple) was fun. It was a game that my nephew and myself could hop in and play together. We had lots of fun and laughs playing. The PvP was fun and at lower levels that we played seemed balanced but can see where CWs and Clerics seemed to rule.

     

      I will play the game at launch, but do not see myself contributing to the game much. I see the game more as a hop in and play once in a while for quick fun. Definately do not see myself getting lost in the lore and emersion of the D&D world.

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  • sayuusayuu glendale, AZPosts: 199Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by harvest151
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    I'm just hoping it doesn't take them to long to get more classes out

    Enter the famous Cryptic Cash Shop.  At their current rates?  Your new "Class" will run ya about 20 bucks.

     

    fine with me game is free.. $20 is a bit steep id pay $10 for a new class though

    Lets just forget the fact that Cryptic has stated multiple times that classes released post launch will be 100% free. . .

    . . .Its even in thier FAQ  for pete's sake. . .

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    Interesting, I just read that this beta weekend will have their "gateway" site operational yet there is no mention of this in the article.

    It allows you to craft, use the Auction House, check out your characters gear/items and even set up guild activities using any device connected to the internet.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by sayuu
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by harvest151
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    I'm just hoping it doesn't take them to long to get more classes out

    Enter the famous Cryptic Cash Shop.  At their current rates?  Your new "Class" will run ya about 20 bucks.

     

    fine with me game is free.. $20 is a bit steep id pay $10 for a new class though

    Lets just forget the fact that Cryptic has stated multiple times that classes released post launch will be 100% free. . .

    . . .Its even in thier FAQ  for pete's sake. . .

    ...

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    Interesting, I just read that this beta weekend will have their "gateway" site operational yet there is no mention of this in the article.

    It allows you to craft, use the Auction House, check out your characters gear/items and even set up guild activities using any device connected to the internet.

    yea it's a pretty nice little utility

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • smasonsmason Idabel, OKPosts: 1Member
    Originally posted by harvest151
    Even with the changes, choice is total shit.  You still wind up using the same powers, you just have to wait and grind levels to unlock it.  Giving me a choice between A & B is not choice when the quality and quantity of the choices is so restrictive. D&D 4e is gonna hurt this game bad.  From a guy who's been playing D&D for 30 years, and every d&d game ever released, this is by far the most restrictive and pidgeonholed setup I've ever seen.  This is a prequel to the cash/zen shop's effect on the game.  Feel free to hate, but after a few months of alpha, and seeing the direction the game is going and the ruleset implemented, there are going to be alot of suprised and angry D&D computer gamers.  Thankfully I saw "Cryptic" on the website and turned and ran my ass off so I didn't get infected with the need to fleece people and release 1/2-ass games.  Neverwinter may be different, but theres no way in hell i'll ever get my hopes up for a cryptic game again.   They will be in bankrupcy before 2013.  Just look at activision.  They couldnt pass this smoking turd of a company off any faster than they did and BOOM - Bankrupt.  One may have had nothing to do with the other, but it seems everything Cryptic touches turns to shit.   I don't need to wait around to see it happen.  I simply know it will.
     
    Activision didnt file becasue of doing bad they did it for over seas reasons., something to do with being able to sell off some titles over seas, so it really just let them restructure.
     
    i dont trust cryptic myself after STO and the zen shop prices are insane.  the $per zen is way off.

     

  • rommellorommello calgary, ABPosts: 185Member
    dam cryptic i hope private servers pop up

    hallo ~_~

  • LevicusLevicus milpitas, CAPosts: 22Member
    Good move made here. The previous leveling system was far too linear for people like myself. I am more willing to give Never winter a try again not only because of the change but also because it sounds like the devs are willing to listen to its customers.
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sayuu
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by harvest151
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    I'm just hoping it doesn't take them to long to get more classes out

    Enter the famous Cryptic Cash Shop.  At their current rates?  Your new "Class" will run ya about 20 bucks.

    fine with me game is free.. $20 is a bit steep id pay $10 for a new class though

    Lets just forget the fact that Cryptic has stated multiple times that classes released post launch will be 100% free. . .

    . . .Its even in thier FAQ  for pete's sake. . .

    That's not true at all.  The classes released at launch will be free including the Drow, which will be available 60 days after launch.  They've not said what, if anything, they will charge for classes in the future.

    From their extended FAQ on the forums:

    All the available races at launch will be free. We are planning to release the regular Drow for free post-launch (after at least 60 days to allow for Founder's Pack exclusivity). Note that only the regular Drow race will become available; the Menzoberranzen Renegade will always remain exclusive to Hero of the North Pack purchases.

    Details regarding additional classes and races should be announced soon!

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by sayuu
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by harvest151
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    I'm just hoping it doesn't take them to long to get more classes out

    Enter the famous Cryptic Cash Shop.  At their current rates?  Your new "Class" will run ya about 20 bucks.

    fine with me game is free.. $20 is a bit steep id pay $10 for a new class though

    Lets just forget the fact that Cryptic has stated multiple times that classes released post launch will be 100% free. . .

    . . .Its even in thier FAQ  for pete's sake. . .

    That's not true at all.  The classes released at launch will be free including the Drow, which will be available 60 days after launch.  They've not said what, if anything, they will charge for classes in the future.

    From their extended FAQ on the forums:

    All the available races at launch will be free. We are planning to release the regular Drow for free post-launch (after at least 60 days to allow for Founder's Pack exclusivity). Note that only the regular Drow race will become available; the Menzoberranzen Renegade will always remain exclusive to Hero of the North Pack purchases.

    Details regarding additional classes and races should be announced soon!

    could of sworn they had something on free classes... oh well even if they did charge $10 for a new class wouldn't be the end of the world for me

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,117Member Uncommon
    Does this mean that the wizard will now get access to fireball and lightning bolt as flavor options instead of being stuck with ice and magic missile?

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  • papagriz33papagriz33 Phoenix, AZPosts: 1Member
    Meh...not much of a change really.  Leveling to end-game will be fast enough that it doesn't matter what choices you make as you grind.  This just opens the door for FOTM builds & the selling of respec potions.
  • XarkoXarko Hradec KralovePosts: 394Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gillrmn
    Character customization is Achilles Heel of Neverwinter ...

    You mean its ok, untill someone shoots it with an arrow ? :P

  • MargraveMargrave Knoxville, TNPosts: 633Member Uncommon
    Sweet! More customization sounds great!
  • VyethVyeth Fayetteville, NCPosts: 1,459Member
    I like and support this change... Good move in the right direction for me, and now something that I can start to pay more attention to..

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  • DJMantissDJMantiss Tracy, CAPosts: 100Member
    Originally posted by Margrave
    Sweet! More customization sounds great!

    Its not adding a single thing to "customization." What you are getting is a gated system that is haphazard at best since you'll invest points before knowing what a skill really does or how it functions. 

    On top of that, you can no longer "max" all skills so now Cryptic has another reason to sell you a $5 or $10 respec token later on. 

     

    Its another cash grab in a consumable heavy game. Not impressed and unless they made the Paragon choices truly meaningful then its simply window dressing.

  • shalissarshalissar Pohjois-PohjanmaaPosts: 294Member Uncommon
    Yeah good move, I'm actually playing CO as a freeform and to be honest, I don't think I've had this much fun since early GW2. There are definitely more than just a "few choices" to be had and I can tell this was an ambitious game way back when. It's a shame PWE swallowed it up because I can tell now that this overlord is stifling any more improvement to be had in CO. I'd hope that PWE doesn't do the same to Neverwinter but they will eventually. I hate that company so very very much.
  • DJMantissDJMantiss Tracy, CAPosts: 100Member

    Folks should really go take a close look at STO. Cryptic is doing the same thing here. I already forsee Menzo lock boxes, pay-to-win items and nickle/dime everything else like minions and health stones...

     

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,421Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rohn
    More choice in character development is a good thing.  We'll see how it works, but sounds like a good change.

    Point systems are NEVER MORE,they are a fake way to fool gamers into thinking they have choice.

    The way you create versatility is thorugh the sub class system ,aka Hybrid system.

    Then to keep things realsitic you create an in depth RACE system, that all ties into the Hybrid system.

    FFXI showed us the template to do great things with gaming,all devs need to do is tweak it,better it and you have a great game.

    With a sub class it allows you to learn EVERYTHING,your not going to get any more versatility than that.However just as in real life,your not going to be a master of everything,so what FFXI did to balance it was cut the sub in half,so although you might know everything,your sub class would be limited to half of it's ability.It actually works brilliantly.

    When you have a points system,EVERYTHING is predictable,they might even limit your choice of unlock,making it even worse yet.SO they might say at level 5 give you a choice to unlock healing or stealth,but knowing that at level 5 you need neither,so in essence you gained nothing useful and in reality had no real choice.

    Then perhaps at level 40 you have been able to unlock 10 abilities but the dev knows exactly what you might need,and made sure to give you only one real useful one at that level,perhaps a second healing aiblity that heals AOE needed to fight creatures that use AOE spells,see how it works?

     


    Samoan Diamond

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