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Will this game be as good as WoW (vanilla)? ie the game that brought the demise of DAoC

KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

Sure, PVP in EQ and DAoC was fun, often times aggrevating, but my best experience ever for PVP was WoW Vanilla.

 

The setting just captured the moment, with Taren Mill vs. Southshore.  Nothing was instanced with PVP and the reward was defending a town, making friends, and having a blast in the process.

 

CU will be different in that it is going back to DAoC mentality with RvR, which was interesting, but not all that great in my mind.  GW2 was a mess with RvR .. ESO isn't looking much better.  I guess CU is going to be instanced with its fights?  Without PVE (as described) the world will be small for each realm?  Without PVE, CU sounds more like a MOBA.

 

When WoW came out, DAoC tanked .. because of WoW.  Thats not my words, thats from Mark Jacobs.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5659079#5659079

 

Originally posted by MarkJacobs

You give me too much credit. I listened to the guy who told me "Mark, I promise you ToA will not affect RvR, you have my word on that." and I've been paying for that ever since. :(

OTOH, you are right about the lack of advertisement but really, what killed it was WoW. SI sent our numbers up and it held, ToA sent our numbers up (less than SI and the bump didn't last as long) but it was a slow decline until WoW and then we lost 30% of our subs 3 months post WoW-launch. That was one of the main reasons we went with NF. We knew what was coming and we tried to come up with something different to excite the player base.

 

So, can Camelot Unchained actually out-do the game that killed it's predecessor, DAoC?

 

DAoC subscriber cap was 250k in 2004, before it fell.  WoW released in 2004, not to beat a dead horse.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

«13

Comments

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member

    image

    *runs for the bunker*

     

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • ArbroathArbroath Depew, NYPosts: 175Member
    I do not recall any mention of CU having instanced fights. I may be wrong though.

    It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. ~Declaration of Arbroath

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    CU = WoW killer!!
  • MikeJezZMikeJezZ HillerødPosts: 1,197Member Uncommon

    Since the game is PvP-oriented and is new and refreshing, it can easily compete with vanilla WoW for me.

     

    I never were into PvE really. It is decent. It is okay. But I like PvP.

     

    Many people have already completed Defiance etc. I haven't at all, since I mostly use my time in Warfronts (BGs).

     

    I couldn't get my hands down after hearing about a sequel to DAoC. Loved WAR Online to. So I think CU will be awesome.

     

    I am downloading the DAoC trial now :P

    Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
    MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
    KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  • GolelornGolelorn Hiding From Social Media Peeping Toms, ALPosts: 1,099Member Uncommon
    w...t...f....
  • BowbowDAoCBowbowDAoC Granby, QCPosts: 470Member
    Originally posted by Arbroath
    I do not recall any mention of CU having instanced fights. I may be wrong though.

    They re going into that direction, that is especially why they are cautious about the game engine, to make sure that the game will remain fluid with a few hundreds of players in the same area.

    image

    Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
    Thurka on WAR

    image

  • Plastic-MetalPlastic-Metal Highland Heights, KYPosts: 405Member

    Taren Mill versus Southshore was truly, epic in World of Warcraft standards.  For a lot of newer MMO players, it was their first exposure to large scale PvP fights.

    Will Camelot Unchained "be as good as WoW (Vanilla)"? It's completely relative.  In my opinion, yes, but it also relative to my perspective.  For you, maybe not.

    Camelot Unchained will not be instanced fighting; Mark has already mentioned it multiple times that he doesn't want instanced fighting. Period. 

    Futhermore, PvE hasn't been completely removed from design, but it's certainly not the key focus of the game itself.   Again, it goes back to it being completely relative - If WoW (vanilla) was a new MMO player's wet dream, probably not.. as it's almost impossible to beat the effects of nostalgia.

    In my opinion, CU will fill a void in which current generation RvR/PvP games cannot seem to do properly.

    My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

    image

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC
    Originally posted by Arbroath
    I do not recall any mention of CU having instanced fights. I may be wrong though.

    They re going into that direction, that is especially why they are cautious about the game engine, to make sure that the game will remain fluid with a few hundreds of players in the same area.

    Any links to that?  Instancing is the death of MMO's :(

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • belatucadrosbelatucadros Toronto, ONPosts: 263Member
    Nothing anyone has said has implied instancing for me

    Eldritch, Nightshade, Warden, Druid, Mauler, Mentalist
    Sorcerer, Necromancer, Theurgist, Armsman, Cleric
    Healer, Warrior, Skald

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Squeak69


    *runs for the bunker*

     


    lol

    I remember back in the T-mil vs S-shore days. We were so young, so innocent. We actually believed we were impacting the world and saving our towns from ally control. Silly us, we should have known Blizz never intended for the players to have any sort of impact on that game.

    My favorite anti WOW statement was a guy who said "I played for 5 years and all I got was this set of armor that became worthless with the expansion."

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Karteli

     

    So, can Camelot Unchained actually out-do the game that killed it's predecessor, DAoC?

     

    DAoC subscriber cap was 250k in 2004, before it fell.  WoW released in 2004, not to beat a dead horse.

    No, and they are not even trying. Jacobs himself said they are targetting a niche...and seeing as how they dont even want PvE, its a niche in a niche...and DaoC was already a small niche at that.

    He already knows that pure PvP is a small market and seems more than willing to target a smaller chunck of that. Small focus = greater chance of meeting a goal of profit, however small it may be.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSPosts: 320Member
    Originally posted by Karteli

     

     

     

    So, can Camelot Unchained actually out-do the game that killed it's predecessor, DAoC?

     

    This question is not really relevant to CU.

    Mark could careless about beating anyone. He is creating a niche game for people who enjoyed DAOC style of rvr. Hate to burst your bubble but Camelot Unchained is not a WoW killer.:P

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

     


    Originally posted by Squeak69

     

    *runs for the bunker*

     


     

    lol

    I remember back in the T-mil vs S-shore days. We were so young, so innocent. We actually believed we were impacting the world and saving our towns from ally control. Silly us, we should have known Blizz never intended for the players to have any sort of impact on that game.

    OK you opened a box of worms there.  How is CU going to allow players to impact the world?

     

    WoW's ranking system was eventually introduced to give cool items to top PVP'ers.  It didn't change the world, but it gave some pretty darn good incentives.  In any event, WoW's PVP in Taren Mill / Southshore was designed for players to help their faction and make friends.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,481Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Karteli

     

    So, can Camelot Unchained actually out-do the game that killed it's predecessor, DAoC?

     

    DAoC subscriber cap was 250k in 2004, before it fell.  WoW released in 2004, not to beat a dead horse.

    No, and they are not even trying. Jacobs himself said they are targetting a niche...and seeing as how they dont even want PvE, its a niche in a niche...and DaoC was already a small niche at that.

    He already knows that pure PvP is a small market and seems more than willing to target a smaller chunck of that. Small focus = greater chance of meeting a goal of profit, however small it may be.

     I am glad MJ is being up front about all that.  Still people want to project things onto this game that just won't happen.

    Also, IIRC TOA killed DOAC not wow.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Karteli

     

    So, can Camelot Unchained actually out-do the game that killed it's predecessor, DAoC?

     

    DAoC subscriber cap was 250k in 2004, before it fell.  WoW released in 2004, not to beat a dead horse.

    No, and they are not even trying. Jacobs himself said they are targetting a niche...and seeing as how they dont even want PvE, its a niche in a niche...and DaoC was already a small niche at that.

    He already knows that pure PvP is a small market and seems more than willing to target a smaller chunck of that. Small focus = greater chance of meeting a goal of profit, however small it may be.

     I am glad MJ is being up front about all that.  Still people want to project things onto this game that just won't happen.

    Also, IIRC TOA killed DOAC not wow.

    There was a shift in loyalty, yes, if that is what you are getting at.

     

    But WoW was a major factor.  Jacobs acknowledges this.  DAoC wasn't as good as WoW (vanilla), at that timeframe.

     

    Later expansions of DAoC were targeting the WoW crowd to bring them back.  Isn't that what pissed fans off?  Be honest.

     

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • OgreRaperOgreRaper Detroit, MIPosts: 376Member
    I loved Vanilla WoW (and hate current WoW). But CU is going to be nothing like it. As much as I enjoyed the world PvP in Hillsbrad, there was ultimately no point. You couldn't destroy or take over towns. You couldn't progress your character through PvP. And at the end of the day, you still had to get back to PvE grinding.
  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 473Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Karteli

     

    So, can Camelot Unchained actually out-do the game that killed it's predecessor, DAoC?

     

    DAoC subscriber cap was 250k in 2004, before it fell.  WoW released in 2004, not to beat a dead horse.

    No, and they are not even trying. Jacobs himself said they are targetting a niche...and seeing as how they dont even want PvE, its a niche in a niche...and DaoC was already a small niche at that.

    He already knows that pure PvP is a small market and seems more than willing to target a smaller chunck of that. Small focus = greater chance of meeting a goal of profit, however small it may be.

     I am glad MJ is being up front about all that.  Still people want to project things onto this game that just won't happen.

    Also, IIRC TOA killed DOAC not wow.

    There was a shift in loyalty, yes, if that is what you are getting at.

     

    But WoW was a major factor.  Jacobs acknowledges this.  DAoC wasn't as good as WoW (vanilla), at that timeframe.

     

    Later expansions of DAoC were targeting the WoW crowd to bring them back.  Isn't that what pissed fans off?  Be honest.

     

    Sub numbers peaked after SI, held for a nice amount of time and then declined slowly. ToA brought back more subs (like XP packs have done for every MMO) but then WoW hit us for 30% when it came out+. 

    But no, I'm not sure why you would think CU will have any instances in it since I've said from day 1, no instances. :)

     

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Karteli

     

    So, can Camelot Unchained actually out-do the game that killed it's predecessor, DAoC?

     

    DAoC subscriber cap was 250k in 2004, before it fell.  WoW released in 2004, not to beat a dead horse.

    No, and they are not even trying. Jacobs himself said they are targetting a niche...and seeing as how they dont even want PvE, its a niche in a niche...and DaoC was already a small niche at that.

    He already knows that pure PvP is a small market and seems more than willing to target a smaller chunck of that. Small focus = greater chance of meeting a goal of profit, however small it may be.

     I am glad MJ is being up front about all that.  Still people want to project things onto this game that just won't happen.

    Also, IIRC TOA killed DOAC not wow.

    There was a shift in loyalty, yes, if that is what you are getting at.

     

    But WoW was a major factor.  Jacobs acknowledges this.  DAoC wasn't as good as WoW (vanilla), at that timeframe.

     

    Later expansions of DAoC were targeting the WoW crowd to bring them back.  Isn't that what pissed fans off?  Be honest.

     

    Sub numbers peaked after SI, held for a nice amount of time and then declined slowly. ToA brought back more subs (like XP packs have done for every MMO) but then WoW hit us for 30% when it came out+. 

    But no, I'm not sure why you would think CU will have any instances in it since I've said from day 1, no instances. :)

    I'll politely ask for a source on no instances then.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 473Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Karteli

     

    So, can Camelot Unchained actually out-do the game that killed it's predecessor, DAoC?

     

    DAoC subscriber cap was 250k in 2004, before it fell.  WoW released in 2004, not to beat a dead horse.

    No, and they are not even trying. Jacobs himself said they are targetting a niche...and seeing as how they dont even want PvE, its a niche in a niche...and DaoC was already a small niche at that.

    He already knows that pure PvP is a small market and seems more than willing to target a smaller chunck of that. Small focus = greater chance of meeting a goal of profit, however small it may be.

     I am glad MJ is being up front about all that.  Still people want to project things onto this game that just won't happen.

    Also, IIRC TOA killed DOAC not wow.

    There was a shift in loyalty, yes, if that is what you are getting at.

     

    But WoW was a major factor.  Jacobs acknowledges this.  DAoC wasn't as good as WoW (vanilla), at that timeframe.

     

    Later expansions of DAoC were targeting the WoW crowd to bring them back.  Isn't that what pissed fans off?  Be honest.

     

    Sub numbers peaked after SI, held for a nice amount of time and then declined slowly. ToA brought back more subs (like XP packs have done for every MMO) but then WoW hit us for 30% when it came out+. 

    But no, I'm not sure why you would think CU will have any instances in it since I've said from day 1, no instances. :)

    I'll politely ask for a source on no instances then.

    Priceless. Right above you!  Timing is everything. :)

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • OgreRaperOgreRaper Detroit, MIPosts: 376Member
    Yes, no instances is a huge selling point for me. Every time I hear about new MMO's, the moment they mention instanced PvP, I immediately lose all interest.
  • SorninSornin Richmond, BCPosts: 1,133Member
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Karteli

     

    So, can Camelot Unchained actually out-do the game that killed it's predecessor, DAoC?

     

    DAoC subscriber cap was 250k in 2004, before it fell.  WoW released in 2004, not to beat a dead horse.

    No, and they are not even trying. Jacobs himself said they are targetting a niche...and seeing as how they dont even want PvE, its a niche in a niche...and DaoC was already a small niche at that.

    He already knows that pure PvP is a small market and seems more than willing to target a smaller chunck of that. Small focus = greater chance of meeting a goal of profit, however small it may be.

     I am glad MJ is being up front about all that.  Still people want to project things onto this game that just won't happen.

    Also, IIRC TOA killed DOAC not wow.

    There was a shift in loyalty, yes, if that is what you are getting at.

     

    But WoW was a major factor.  Jacobs acknowledges this.  DAoC wasn't as good as WoW (vanilla), at that timeframe.

     

    Later expansions of DAoC were targeting the WoW crowd to bring them back.  Isn't that what pissed fans off?  Be honest.

     

    Sub numbers peaked after SI, held for a nice amount of time and then declined slowly. ToA brought back more subs (like XP packs have done for every MMO) but then WoW hit us for 30% when it came out+. 

    But no, I'm not sure why you would think CU will have any instances in it since I've said from day 1, no instances. :)

    I'll politely ask for a source on no instances then.

    Priceless. Right above you!  Timing is everything. :)

    Clearly he didn't read that the statement was made by the CEO of the company and creator of the game - I laughed hard!

    image

  • Plastic-MetalPlastic-Metal Highland Heights, KYPosts: 405Member

    Aw man.. this thread just went from classic to epic. 

    My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

    image

  • papabear151papabear151 Owensboro, KYPosts: 96Member
    Originally posted by Plastic-Metal

    Taren Mill versus Southshore was truly, epic in World of Warcraft standards.  For a lot of newer MMO players, it was their first exposure to large scale PvP fights.

    Will Camelot Unchained "be as good as WoW (Vanilla)"? It's completely relative.  In my opinion, yes, but it also relative to my perspective.  For you, maybe not.

    Camelot Unchained will not be instanced fighting; Mark has already mentioned it multiple times that he doesn't want instanced fighting. Period. 

    Futhermore, PvE hasn't been completely removed from design, but it's certainly not the key focus of the game itself.   Again, it goes back to it being completely relative - If WoW (vanilla) was a new MMO player's wet dream, probably not.. as it's almost impossible to beat the effects of nostalgia.

    In my opinion, CU will fill a void in which current generation RvR/PvP games cannot seem to do properly.

    A bunch of people running around aimlessly killing each other with ZERO purpose was "truly epic"

     

    LOL, alright dude, too bad that had already been surpassed by MMO's released 7 years before. 

  • ArnfiarnunnArnfiarnunn eragnyPosts: 61Member Common
    April fool! Oh wait, we're the 9th...

    image
  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by papabear151
    Originally posted by Plastic-Metal

    Taren Mill versus Southshore was truly, epic in World of Warcraft standards.  For a lot of newer MMO players, it was their first exposure to large scale PvP fights.

    Will Camelot Unchained "be as good as WoW (Vanilla)"? It's completely relative.  In my opinion, yes, but it also relative to my perspective.  For you, maybe not.

    Camelot Unchained will not be instanced fighting; Mark has already mentioned it multiple times that he doesn't want instanced fighting. Period. 

    Futhermore, PvE hasn't been completely removed from design, but it's certainly not the key focus of the game itself.   Again, it goes back to it being completely relative - If WoW (vanilla) was a new MMO player's wet dream, probably not.. as it's almost impossible to beat the effects of nostalgia.

    In my opinion, CU will fill a void in which current generation RvR/PvP games cannot seem to do properly.

    A bunch of people running around aimlessly killing each other with ZERO purpose was "truly epic"

     

    LOL, alright dude, too bad that had already been surpassed by MMO's released 7 years before. 

    Isn't that the definition of RvR .. or would you like to refine it?

     

    I would love to see another players version of how RvR should work (in a PVE'less world).

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

«13
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