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XP grind. Mob or Quest?

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  • TheJodaTheJoda Member UncommonPosts: 605
    looking forward to ArchAge.......Grind/quest sounds balanced enuff

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • WaterlilyWaterlily Member UncommonPosts: 3,105

    EQ's brutal mob grind was a much better system than WoW's casual quest grind.

    When you have a common goal it's easy to  build a forced grouping game like EQ, quests grinding like WoW prevent socialising because everyone has a different goal.

    I can't group with someone if they have completely different quest goal. Grouping in EQ was so easy because we had one goal: kill stuff.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332

    I feel ALL xp shoudl be related to it's proper course.Example exploring xp for exploring ,comabt xp through,you guessed it combat.

    However ,i have NEVER seen the common sense from gaining xp for doing quests.Quests shoudl be about faction or gaining favor with that npc or nation.Games tend to generally do this but also add that free xp.

    Some games seem to take feedback on crafting and exploring and think that means we need to allow players to gain xp from noty doing combat.That again is wrong becuase it makes no sense.If you nevcer take part in combat,why woudl it make sense that you are a fully experienced max level Warrior?

    So you need to keep everything in persepective,design the game liek you have some common sense.

    I loved watching Wildstar videos because the narrator explains everything,telling us exactly the thought process to why they did what they did.I am sure there will be xp for questing,something i don't like,however they did seem to put some trhought into the whoel design rather than copy/paste Wow or Eq2.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser Member Posts: 1,873
    Quests all the way.. and this should have been a poll.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • Hordequester8Hordequester8 Member Posts: 54
    Originally posted by Psychow

    Basically, you are choosing one humungus kill 1 million rats quest to gain xp. Really? That's fun to you? I see people argue for it because they had fun socializing while farming the mobs...but can't people socialize while questing? I'm just really amazed at the preferece people are claiming...are you all botters?

    I've seen this comment in here a lot when referencing grinding over questing but I ask you..what's the difference between fighting x rats vs doing x fedex 'kill rats' quests? Nothing.

    I think the main problem is that most people are misunderstanding when we're refering to 'grinding' we're not talking about fighting thousands or millions of the same mobs...it's a slower pace. Like FFXI or EQ1. You weren't fighting huge hordes of mobs at once or thousands in a row. It was..kill one..wait a bit while puller goes out..repeat.

    The issue with the current state of 'questing' is that it's all about grinding but on a solo rate to level to end-game fast as possible. Eastern MMORPGs are the real grind-fests..where they're focused on thousands upon thousands of kill to gain a smidge of xp. While Western MMORPGs are about getting to the end-game as fast as possible. And, of course, there's the games in-between..which get all but forgotten.

     

    I'm personally tired of games being about getting to end-game before they're worth paying attention to..aka WoW, EQ2, etc. Yes, I know, you COULD do things in the mid-range..but there's no incentive to do so aside from boredom..and at that point..you should find another game. I usually will start a new toon on the games I play as soon as I reach max level or shortly after doing a few end-game things. I see no point mindlessly puttering away at raids/dungeons for 1 piece of gear that will help me putter some more (I have done so in the past though, mind you).

  • corpusccorpusc Member UncommonPosts: 1,341

    mandatory quest grinding was probably the 2nd worst thing to ever happen to MMOs.  

    (1st being heavy instancing)

    ---------------------------

    Corpus Callosum    

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  • hockeyplayrhockeyplayr Member UncommonPosts: 604
    I prefer mob grinding.  If I am going to sit there and just grind (essentially what questing is), I'd rather not move and just plop myself in one spot with an opportunity to socialize
  • KuviskiKuviski Member UncommonPosts: 215

    I would like to see it done this way:

    Having multiple areas of un-instanced stronger ("elite") mobs, possibly with rare minibosses or similar mobs spawning in the area from time to time as well: these would be  the group grinding areas and would grant the fastest XP, however a group would be required to efficiently kill these mobs. How ever, the mobs should probably also be  challenging even for a group.

    The second fastest way to gain XP would be to solo grind.

    The third fastest option, buy only slightly behind the other two would be solo questing. Although I'd also like to see some group quests here and there on the way to the max level.

    The  least XP  would be granted by dungeon grinding (most likely in a game where there is not LFG tool), but this method would provide you with the best equipment and mor exciting fights and sights to see.

     

    So, choice is what I would like to see. I want questing and instanced grouping be the choices you can make for leveling at the cost of some experience/hour, where as I want group grinding and grinding to be the most efficient ways for leveling because they require, in my eyes, the most work and don't reward the player much else than pure XP (where as quests and dungeons reward the player with such things as exciting sights to see or equipment instead of the most efficient XP).

  • WaterlilyWaterlily Member UncommonPosts: 3,105

    Both doesn't work because people choose the path of least resistance, and that's soloing quests.

    Quest Grinders like WoW and FFXIV ARR actually attract non-social players and kids, so you end up trying to talk to silent totem poles that don't even respond to you.

    In fact many MMO like FF XIV ARR allow PS3 players to play with PC players, so you have half the population playing without access to a keyboard.

    You'll have more success getting a frog to talk to you than a player in a Quest Grinder.

     

    Quest grinders are basically single player games, since people aren't reading what other players are saying, they're reading what the Quest is saying.

  • hockeyplayrhockeyplayr Member UncommonPosts: 604
    Originally posted by hockeyplayr
    I prefer mob grinding.  If I am going to sit there and just grind (essentially what questing is), I'd rather not move and just plop myself in one spot with an opportunity to socialize

    to elaborate, I always use runescape as an example.  When I started playing you had access to the entire map all filled with different areas containing different mobs of varying strengths and experience.  It was up to you to locate which ones would be beneficial to fight and how to kill them efficiently to make grinding worthwhile.  No quest took me (I only did the necessary quests so I could be wrong) and showed me well this is what you should be killing right now at your level. 

     

    Let people figure out how to level on their own.  May surprise some what people come up with

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Originally posted by KamiKazeTG
    Originally posted by Psychow

    Basically, you are choosing one humungus kill 1 million rats quest to gain xp. Really? That's fun to you? I see people argue for it because they had fun socializing while farming the mobs...but can't people socialize while questing? I'm just really amazed at the preferece people are claiming...are you all botters?

    I've seen this comment in here a lot when referencing grinding over questing but I ask you..what's the difference between fighting x rats vs doing x fedex 'kill rats' quests? Nothing.

    I think the main problem is that most people are misunderstanding when we're refering to 'grinding' we're not talking about fighting thousands or millions of the same mobs...it's a slower pace. Like FFXI or EQ1. You weren't fighting huge hordes of mobs at once or thousands in a row. It was..kill one..wait a bit while puller goes out..repeat.

    The issue with the current state of 'questing' is that it's all about grinding but on a solo rate to level to end-game fast as possible. Eastern MMORPGs are the real grind-fests..where they're focused on thousands upon thousands of kill to gain a smidge of xp. While Western MMORPGs are about getting to the end-game as fast as possible. And, of course, there's the games in-between..which get all but forgotten.

    I'm personally tired of games being about getting to end-game before they're worth paying attention to..aka WoW, EQ2, etc. Yes, I know, you COULD do things in the mid-range..but there's no incentive to do so aside from boredom..and at that point..you should find another game. I usually will start a new toon on the games I play as soon as I reach max level or shortly after doing a few end-game things. I see no point mindlessly puttering away at raids/dungeons for 1 piece of gear that will help me putter some more (I have done so in the past though, mind you).

     

    I'm the same way, I enjoy the journey aspect of MMOs and it seem far too short most of the time.  I am being drawn to games that feature "scaling" though.  GW2, EQ2 and Vanguard can do this and elongate your play once you are high level.

     

    As far as "quest vs. kill" I would say both as an equal means to level.  If I could only choose one I would say kill.  Reason being is the inclusion of other people where each can benefit.  In a quest based game if the "helper" is not on the same quest both people are not progressing the same.  Typically in quest based MMOs, EQ2 is one exception and I'm sure there are more, the quest is the main bulk of xp so the one(s) helping are left wth less.  With kill based progression each is getting the same and additionally if the kill content is group based (harder) content.

     

    As ironic as it seems there would be more "wasted time" with a group of people doing quests, unless they has all the same ones, than if they were looking for areas to take on group content.

  • TheJodaTheJoda Member UncommonPosts: 605
    Originally posted by Waterlily

    EQ's brutal mob grind was a much better system than WoW's casual quest grind.

    When you have a common goal it's easy to  build a forced grouping game like EQ, quests grinding like WoW prevent socialising because everyone has a different goal.

    I can't group with someone if they have completely different quest goal. Grouping in EQ was so easy because we had one goal: kill stuff.

     

    .....I agree 100%.........but kids now a days want it all fast.....look at the d3 AH mess wifh RL money now....even the dev's said its jacked!

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • BenediktBenedikt Member UncommonPosts: 1,406
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by Psychow

    I'm finding it difficult to believe how many people in this thread claim they would prefer to just mindlessly grind mobs for xp instead of questing. Quests can be made up of combat/non-combat type of activities, vehicle type encounters, exploration, etc. Some may be quick...other may be long epic chains.

     

    Basically, you are choosing one humungus kill 1 million rats quest to gain xp. Really? That's fun to you? I see people argue for it because they had fun socializing while farming the mobs...but can't people socialize while questing? I'm just really amazed at the preferece people are claiming...are you all botters?

     

     

    You prefer going and talking to some guy that tells you to go kill 5 rats then come back so he can tell you to do it again? 

    MMO's don't give you quests to do, they give you errands. I'd rather grind mobs than play errand boy online for the umpteenth time.  

    this

    i like to roam around on my own pace, kill what i see, explore and loot. i started to really hate those hundreds of quests which are all the same that most of the mmorpgs (with a bit exception of TSW) throw at you. not to mention running all the time to quest giver to turn in done and take new quests.

    if quests, then i would prefer them to be really rare in the game, hard to find and long time taking to finish. not having overflowing quest log of "run around from marked point A to point B"

  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,256

    i think everyone ready know that half of exp quest give you are from mob that you killing.

    If they want to make it easy for player , they just need to double mob exp, not created some worthless quest.

     

    And quest grind are terrible way to build a MMORPG.

    Because in quest grind , player mainly solo.

    So what point to play MMOs ?

    Because of that , mmorpg nowaday have low party rate , terrible as Japan birth rate.

    And because of that , player's relationship are extreme low.

     

    If they want player lvl up fast , why don't make quest that give you exp when you pay gold ?

    Yes , you pay gold to finish quest.

    "please kil 10 rat and talk with npc A when you finish"

    Stop that joke.

    I will pay you gold that i earn from monster kill , kill those rat by yourself and give me my delicious exp.

     

    Quest are precious content don't waste it.

    It make me feel bad when they turn them to trash and throw at player.

     

    Quest are content and exp grind are work.

    And look , they mix player enjoyment with hard working.

     

    If developer afraid player will pass they precious story telling content , there are alot way to make even high player get they hard time with low level pluzze quest. You don't need strong monster to created a hard quest , use your creative  to created some challenge for player .

    Stop making those brainless muscle quest with auto hind.

     

    Let player have they fun party time with mob grind exp

    Let player have they enjoy time to slove quest's mystery.

     

    You can't mix all the luxury delicious food in one bowl to created a better food. It only make thing go worst.

     

    Quest are good tool to break "grind" , but don't abuse it and turn it in another kind of "grind".

    I feel sad when most developer don't understand it.

    What they want are people fast lvl up and join they "endgame content"

     

    What point of "endgame content" grind fest when you waste alot of good content that player don't even read what those quest write.

     

    Monster give exp / drop loots

    Quest give money / fame / reward.

     

    Don't tell me "i want solo and want 5' log and still finish something"

    Yeah , you can still finish some quest with 5' and get some exp from mob that you need to kill , some exp , maybe a item.

    You can solo too.

     

    Let monster being the ugly one you need to kill.

    Don't let player kill those good quest , those precious content , let player enjoy them.

     

    Developer have to understand a logic.

    Character earn exp from fighting monster and active thing like collect an craft.

    Quest don't give exp , they only give reward.

     

    So stop grind quest , stop grind game content.

    Let Party , grind mobs to minced meat and enjoy quest with beer.

     

    Another post in this topic

    I think i have enough of quest grind ,

    last week i download a F2P MMO and i feel sick when it tell me to quest grind again.

    I at my limit of quest grind.

    Now i can't play a MMORPG with quest grind anymore , because i feel it so familiar that i can know how endgame of it look like.

    I feel so envy with people who just start to play quest grind , i hope i can being like them , enjoy game and don't feel anything bad. So innocent , i miss my innocent hahaha

    Sigh*...

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Magiknight
    Slow combat was really nice for meeting people

    I don't play games to meet people.

    And you can always STOP if you want to meet people.

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Well one of the bonuses to playing an MMO IS to meet and play with people. There is a difference between kill and quest based games in regards to interacting with others. It's easier to do something with someone when you are both doing the same thing. Quest based MMOs can throw this off since mob xp is usually low so people end up segregating themselves as to not wait or have to strategize how both can benefit.

    You CAN get the same interaction with others in a quest based game it's just not as conducive as a mob kill based game.
  • tupodawg999tupodawg999 Member UncommonPosts: 724

    Mobs for exp

    Quests for gear / faction / money

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Well one of the bonuses to playing an MMO IS to meet and play with people. There is a difference between kill and quest based games in regards to interacting with others. It's easier to do something with someone when you are both doing the same thing. Quest based MMOs can throw this off since mob xp is usually low so people end up segregating themselves as to not wait or have to strategize how both can benefit.

    You CAN get the same interaction with others in a quest based game it's just not as conducive as a mob kill based game.

    Not in WOW. The most efficient way to level up in WOW is through LFD, and there are some quests associated with LFD. 

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Member UncommonPosts: 1,314
    I say you got to have both. I usually quest, but I would grind mobs along the way.
  • DraftbeerDraftbeer Member UncommonPosts: 517
    Mobs, lots of them, the more the better... bring those AoE skills.
  • ArclanArclan Member UncommonPosts: 1,550


    Originally posted by iixviiiix
    i think everyone ready know that half of exp quest give you are from mob that you killing.If they want to make it easy for player , they just need to double mob exp, not created some worthless quest. And quest grind are terrible way to build a MMORPG.Because in quest grind , player mainly solo.So what point to play MMOs ?Because of that , mmorpg nowaday have low party rate , terrible as Japan birth rate.And because of that , player's relationship are extreme low. If they want player lvl up fast , why don't make quest that give you exp when you pay gold ?Yes , you pay gold to finish quest."please kil 10 rat and talk with npc A when you finish"Stop that joke.I will pay you gold that i earn from monster kill , kill those rat by yourself and give me my delicious exp. Quest are precious content don't waste it.It make me feel bad when they turn them to trash and throw at player. Quest are content and exp grind are work.And look , they mix player enjoyment with hard working. If developer afraid player will pass they precious story telling content , there are alot way to make even high player get they hard time with low level pluzze quest. You don't need strong monster to created a hard quest , use your creative  to created some challenge for player .Stop making those brainless muscle quest with auto hind. Let player have they fun party time with mob grind exp Let player have they enjoy time to slove quest's mystery. You can't mix all the luxury delicious food in one bowl to created a better food. It only make thing go worst. Quest are good tool to break "grind" , but don't abuse it and turn it in another kind of "grind".I feel sad when most developer don't understand it.What they want are people fast lvl up and join they "endgame content" What point of "endgame content" grind fest when you waste alot of good content that player don't even read what those quest write. Monster give exp / drop lootsQuest give money / fame / reward. Don't tell me "i want solo and want 5' log and still finish something"Yeah , you can still finish some quest with 5' and get some exp from mob that you need to kill , some exp , maybe a item.You can solo too. Let monster being the ugly one you need to kill.Don't let player kill those good quest , those precious content , let player enjoy them. Developer have to understand a logic.Character earn exp from fighting monster and active thing like collect an craft.Quest don't give exp , they only give reward. So stop grind quest , stop grind game content.Let Party , grind mobs to minced meat and enjoy quest with beer. Another post in this topicI think i have enough of quest grind , last week i download a F2P MMO and i feel sick when it tell me to quest grind again.I at my limit of quest grind.Now i can't play a MMORPG with quest grind anymore , because i feel it so familiar that i can know how endgame of it look like.I feel so envy with people who just start to play quest grind , i hope i can being like them , enjoy game and don't feel anything bad. So innocent , i miss my innocent hahahaSigh*...

    Post made me laugh. But very true.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

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