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Is no gear progression like Guild Wars 2 a bad move?

MikeJezZMikeJezZ HillerødPosts: 1,197Member

Many people complained about at endgame, all gear was alike.

 

In Defiance, all level 1 items are the same as endgame weapons. There's not noticeable stats diffference.

 

Is this a step in the right or wrong direction?

Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
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Comments

  • cm01cm01 sidmouthPosts: 47Member
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ

    Many people complained about at endgame, all gear was alike.

     

    In Defiance, all level 1 items are the same as endgame weapons. There's not noticeable stats diffference.

     

    Is this a step in the right or wrong direction?

    If Defiance fails to retain players you'll have your answer.

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member
    i think you people are a little to absessed with stat gear, and there is a very noticable diffrence between items, but its more based on the type and damage.

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • VyethVyeth Fayetteville, NCPosts: 1,459Member

    What I fail to understand is, who was this demographic that did not want gear progression? I know people are tired of their WoW raid gear wheels and that's understandable, but to eliminate that from MMO's from the start sounds a little rediculous to me..

    At least in the lower levels if anything, of course as you reach the top the difference should be a bit more negligible.. But everyone likes to see progression..

    image

  • MikeJezZMikeJezZ HillerødPosts: 1,197Member
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    i think you people are a little to absessed with stat gear, and there is a very noticable diffrence between items, but its more based on the type and damage.

    It is fun in a RPG to get the feeling of being stronger.

     

    If I am as strong/weak at ego 1 as 5000 I see no reason to get there.

    Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
    MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
    KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  • ichihaifuichihaifu nullPosts: 259Member Uncommon
    I do not play the game, nor plan to. However, the statless progression does function just as well as stat progression does, just in a different manner. People play and enjoy GW2 even without the gear progression because there are different things to look for. I'm sure defiance will have its things that will keep people wanting them and work for them.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vyeth

    What I fail to understand is, who was this demographic that did not want gear progression? I know people are tired of their WoW raid gear wheels and that's understandable, but to eliminate that from MMO's from the start sounds a little rediculous to me..

    It hasn't been eliminated at all, it just isn't the biggest determining factor in a battle like in WOW and most other gear-dependent MMOs. Much like UO, the gear in Defiance can be upgraded and enahanced. However, in Defiance, there are also higher tiers of gear (Synergy) for one to upgrade to. That said, if someone is playing MMOs to build stat-laden skyscrapers on their shoulders, Defiance isn't going to be their cup of tea. 

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • EzhaeEzhae LondonPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    i think you people are a little to absessed with stat gear, and there is a very noticable diffrence between items, but its more based on the type and damage.

    It is fun in a RPG to get the feeling of being stronger.

     

    If I am as strong/weak at ego 1 as 5000 I see no reason to get there.

    I never had fun in stat building when playing RPGs. Especiallyw ith tabletop where I prefer to outsmart the DM/party. Stats are boring and if I wanted to play witht hem I'd be math major. 

    As for Defiance progression, at higher EGO you have more perks to play with and mix (more perk slots and 3/3 perks make difference), also the weapons will have more secondary effects on higher levels, elemental effects will be more common, you will have more mod slots and well it's not tab target system game where miss and hit are "rolled" by server. The more "action" oriented the combat is the less reason for stat differences in gear.

     

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    i think you people are a little to absessed with stat gear, and there is a very noticable diffrence between items, but its more based on the type and damage.

    It is fun in a RPG to get the feeling of being stronger.

    If I am as strong/weak at ego 1 as 5000 I see no reason to get there.

    If you are as strong/weak at 5000 as you are at 1 then submit a petition. It means either none of your gun mods or perks are working or you haven't upgraded anything since you started. Either way, the support team can help you out.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ezhae
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    i think you people are a little to absessed with stat gear, and there is a very noticable diffrence between items, but its more based on the type and damage.

    It is fun in a RPG to get the feeling of being stronger.

     

    If I am as strong/weak at ego 1 as 5000 I see no reason to get there.

    I never had fun in stat building when playing RPGs. Especiallyw ith tabletop where I prefer to outsmart the DM/party. Stats are boring and if I wanted to play witht hem I'd be math major. 

    As for Defiance progression, at higher EGO you have more perks to play with and mix (more perk slots and 3/3 perks make difference), also the weapons will have more secondary effects on higher levels, elemental effects will be more common, you will have more mod slots and well it's not tab target system game where miss and hit are "rolled" by server. The more "action" oriented the combat is the less reason for stat differences in gear.

    The player will also have more bonuses to their vehicles and weapons from having leveled both the individual items and their categories.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • gwei1984gwei1984 GrazPosts: 373Member Uncommon

    I like the point, that if i get killed in PvP, its because of being a worse player and not of having crappier gear. But I see why many people whine about this. It gives you less excuses for being not good ;)

     

    And I also like the point of going back and forth in PVE without any areas getting completely useless when I faceroll through them, because Im just better equipped and high level.

    Hodor!

  • BeyornBeyorn Canton, GAPosts: 249Member Uncommon
    So we wont have any progression at all?  I hate raiding but I was hoping there would be a reason to keep playing to the end.  So I should just keep the guns I get at the start of the game ;(?
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Beyorn
    So we wont have any progression at all?  I hate raiding but I was hoping there would be a reason to keep playing to the end.  So I should just keep the guns I get at the start of the game ;(?

    Please tell me you're being sarcastic.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • gwei1984gwei1984 GrazPosts: 373Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Beyorn
    So we wont have any progression at all?  I hate raiding but I was hoping there would be a reason to keep playing to the end.  So I should just keep the guns I get at the start of the game ;(?

    Of course you'll progress. But not in terms of 400% more damage and 100k more hit points. You'll get better in every way, but you will just not faceroll everything below you. A better player will always beat you, even if he is EGO 200 and you're EGO 2000

     

    AND THAT IS A DAMN GOOD THING!

    Hodor!

  • BeyornBeyorn Canton, GAPosts: 249Member Uncommon

    HAHA!  I was but hearing everyone talk about it I was begining to wonder.

     

    But in my opinion some progression is good.  I talking from strickly a pve point of view mind you.  I dont pvp much because I suck at it ;).  I understand your argument and facerolling in pvp and I agree.  Seems like there could be a way to have progression in a game and have a balanced pvp system.

  • RoinRoin Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon
    The less taken from GW2 the better. I actually want to have fun. image

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • curacura WarsawPosts: 950Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    i think you people are a little to absessed with stat gear, and there is a very noticable diffrence between items, but its more based on the type and damage.

    It is fun in a RPG to get the feeling of being stronger.

     

    If I am as strong/weak at ego 1 as 5000 I see no reason to get there.

    I dont get that fun as mobs i am fighting gets stronger as well. A vicious circle. Whats worse, after some time i can one shot really bad ass enemies from earlier stages of the game which just feels ridicolous. Lore, exploration and looks is whats important to me not some relative stats.

     

    EDIT: I was referring to general mmorpg mechanics, not Defiance.

  • MikeJezZMikeJezZ HillerødPosts: 1,197Member
    Originally posted by Roin
    The less taken from GW2 the better. I actually want to have fun. image

    Then Defiance is nothing for you.

    Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
    MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
    KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  • RoinRoin Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ
    Originally posted by Roin
    The less taken from GW2 the better. I actually want to have fun. image

    Then Defiance is nothing for you.

    Oh? How do you figure that chief?

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • MikeJezZMikeJezZ HillerødPosts: 1,197Member
    Originally posted by Roin
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ
    Originally posted by Roin
    The less taken from GW2 the better. I actually want to have fun. image

    Then Defiance is nothing for you.

    Oh? How do you figure that chief?

    Even though GW2 has more gear progression than Defiance, it is allmost non existant.

    Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
    MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
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  • BrownAleBrownAle fantasyland, MEPosts: 399Member

    No gear progression?

    I mean the gear itself doesnt really progress much, aside from getting better colored gear. 

    However you level up that weapon type, and the progression comes from that.

     

    So there is gear progression, you just need to keep leveling up your weapon types to unlock additional bonuses.

    Also theres progression in mods, your mods can get much, much better than the starter areas mod vendors will provide.

     

    There is gear progression, its just not typical mmorpg high fantasy style, and much more progression than in GW2.

    Its a different approach and we all know how mmorpg gamers truely hate different!

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ

    Many people complained about at endgame, all gear was alike.

     

    In Defiance, all level 1 items are the same as endgame weapons. There's not noticeable stats diffference.

     

    Is this a step in the right or wrong direction?

    This isn't really true at all.  Endgame weapons have *more* stats, stuff like elemental types, special defenses, synergy bonuses, etc..  Yes, the basic stats like damage and reload and stuff stay the same, but the the end game stuff does have more going for it.

    It's not nearly as pronounced as a normal MMO, but the your comment is innacurate.

    You make me like charity

  • MikeJezZMikeJezZ HillerødPosts: 1,197Member
    Originally posted by BrownAle

    No gear progression?

    I mean the gear itself doesnt really progress much, aside from getting better colored gear. 

    However you level up that weapon type, and the progression comes from that.

     

    So there is gear progression, you just need to keep leveling up your weapon types to unlock additional bonuses.

    Also theres progression in mods, your mods can get much, much better than the starter areas mod vendors will provide.

     

    There is gear progression, its just not typical mmorpg high fantasy style, and much more progression than in GW2.

    Its a different approach and we all know how mmorpg gamers truely hate different!

    Much more progression than in GW2?

     

    Please.

     

    I am ego 500ish. My purple or orange weapons are not better than my starter AR.

    Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
    MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
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  • BrownAleBrownAle fantasyland, MEPosts: 399Member
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ
    Originally posted by BrownAle

    No gear progression?

    I mean the gear itself doesnt really progress much, aside from getting better colored gear. 

    However you level up that weapon type, and the progression comes from that.

     

    So there is gear progression, you just need to keep leveling up your weapon types to unlock additional bonuses.

    Also theres progression in mods, your mods can get much, much better than the starter areas mod vendors will provide.

     

    There is gear progression, its just not typical mmorpg high fantasy style, and much more progression than in GW2.

    Its a different approach and we all know how mmorpg gamers truely hate different!

    Much more progression than in GW2?

     

    Please.

     

    I am ego 500ish. My purple or orange weapons are not better than my starter AR.

     

    Mine are, they have more stats on them, more slots open, and by EGO 400, which im near, ive unlocked several stats via the weapon leveling system.  Convienietly forgot about that did we?

    You get none of that in GW2...not even close.  Even what little that game does have its the boring same old type of system every other game has.

    I get that a lot of the GW2 players would slam this game, since it really does the whole type of game both are a lot better.  Also seems to be the only game on the site you cant slam without getting banned.

     

  • znaiikaznaiika denver, PAPosts: 203Member
    Originally posted by ichihaifu
    I do not play the game, nor plan to. However, the statless progression does function just as well as stat progression does, just in a different manner. People play and enjoy GW2 even without the gear progression because there are different things to look for. I'm sure defiance will have its things that will keep people wanting them and work for them.

    DLCs only.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ
    Originally posted by BrownAle

    No gear progression?

    I mean the gear itself doesnt really progress much, aside from getting better colored gear. 

    However you level up that weapon type, and the progression comes from that.

     

    So there is gear progression, you just need to keep leveling up your weapon types to unlock additional bonuses.

    Also theres progression in mods, your mods can get much, much better than the starter areas mod vendors will provide.

     

    There is gear progression, its just not typical mmorpg high fantasy style, and much more progression than in GW2.

    Its a different approach and we all know how mmorpg gamers truely hate different!

    Much more progression than in GW2?

     

    Please.

     

    I am ego 500ish. My purple or orange weapons are not better than my starter AR.

    There is a lot of progression in Defiance, but no it is not to the point where you can simply pwn lower "leveled" players and such. 

    Progression in defiance comes from a variety of places. 

    1) Your EGO - As you gain ego points and spend them you do become more powerful. You take less damage, do more damage, do more damage on critical attacks, can do more damage and take less damage while crouched, and a plethora of other things. 

    2) Weapons - they do get better. Early weapons have zero bonuses, later weapons can have a ton of bonuses on them. Not to mention progression through moding them. 

    3) Weapon Skill Levels and Vehicle Skill Levels - These can increase dmg, reload speed, crit dmg, fire rate, crit multiplier, melee dmg, velocity, speed, boost amount, etc. 

    4) Shields and Grenades - These do get better the higher the ego level required. 

    There is a good bit of progression in Defiance but its paced a bit and they are small steps up rather than huge jumps in power/performance. It gives enough so that people notice that they are progressing (If they know how progression works) yet not to much as to make it impossible for a lower ego player to defeat a higher ego player. 

     

    Personally I think they did a good job here, but I also enjoyed GW2s system so if you didn't you may disagree with me. 

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