Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

What have they completed so far?

syntax42syntax42 Columbus, OHPosts: 1,305Member Uncommon

Previous kickstarter campaigns I considered backing have shown videos of their completed work in a near-alpha state.  The games were playable, but all of the content had yet to be developed.  What does CU have, other than a legendary lead game developer who has shared his dream for the game?

 

I can't justify pledging money to a bunch of promises with no substance.  I appreciate those who did, because that means the game might be funded and I might get to see the finished product.  I'm just not a fan of the kickstarter concept.  To me, it is worse than paying to get in to a beta.  Once you donate, there is no guarantee the game will turn into something you are interested in.  At least with paying for beta access, you have the chance to cancel a pre-order if you feel the game is not worth paying for.  I've never done it, but I want the option to be there, just in case.

«1

Comments

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon

    It sounds like you already know full well what they have completed. It is mainly a design at this stage with a lot of concepts and concept art and some prototype graphics and network code. The company and its founders do have a track record, so it's not like this is being done by people who have never made an MMO before. But ultimately donating is a leap of faith and not for everyone.

    Since you do have some interest in the game, it might be worth your while to donate even $25 if you can afford it. That gets you a digital copy of the game when it releases which will likely you save $10+ over the retail price, automatic invite to beta 3, 5 Founder Points to spend in the in game shop, and access to the Founders forum to give your input as the game is developed.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,539Member Uncommon

    Completed? The game is still in conception/idea phase.

     

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    The simple answer is practically nothing, at least nothing we have seen.

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member
    MJ is punking you guys for all the crap you gave WAR.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • outd00rmineroutd00rminer Hollywood, FLPosts: 37Member
    Look at games like Torment and Shroud of the Avatar.  2 games that have well exceeded initial KS funding goals and who combined have shown maybe 5 screenshots and a bunch of concept art?  Seems to me like other projects get a pass when it comes to the amount of content it'll take before someone pledges.
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by outd00rminer
    Look at games like Torment and Shroud of the Avatar.  2 games that have well exceeded initial KS funding goals and who combined have shown maybe 5 screenshots and a bunch of concept art?  Seems to me like other projects get a pass when it comes to the amount of content it'll take before someone pledges.

    Shroud of the Avatar had actual alpha footage (or even pre-alpha) in the very first video posted. People gave Torment and enormous pass.

     

    And really, I think the issue isn't just that there is nothing made, but it's also that what he has layed out is so vague that no one really know what his plans for specific things are going to be like.

     

    For instance, his video about how combat might be a hybrid model probably made a lot of the backers already start wondering about what is going to happen with this game compared to what they envisioned based on what he wrote in his blogs. I was always under the impression that since he was going old school, that he would go old school with the combat and stay with the more traditional tab-tageting system. I know there are a lot of posters here that prefer that type of combat and it probably came as a surpise to many. How many other things are going to be like that?

     

    I think he should be more specific about his design goals. When he talks about crafting, he says that they will build houses and keeps. Well, fine, but how are you going to make this work well in an MMORPG? Because if he doesn't know the answer to that question yet, then his ideas really are half-baked. And if he does know the answer to that question, then he should share it to get people excited.

  • grogstormgrogstorm Peyton, COPosts: 304Member Uncommon

    What they have completed so far is that they have a fully functioning game studio with staff and software/hardware to get a product started.  This is not Bob and Vinny’s, fund us and we will then spend the money to put together a team and functioning office to build you a game.

    This is a groundbreaking opportunity.  The community will be involved at early stages of the development of the game and they will be instrumental in creating the game they want to play.  This will allow players to help mold the direction of the game and determine the final product.  And I find this innovative and I fully want to jump in and help design the game. 

    This if just the opposite of the games that already have the product preset and can show you their game footage.  These preset products only invite people in before release to find bugs and test their already conceptually complete product.

    Grog

  • naezgulnaezgul Homer Glen, ILPosts: 374Member
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by outd00rminer
    Look at games like Torment and Shroud of the Avatar.  2 games that have well exceeded initial KS funding goals and who combined have shown maybe 5 screenshots and a bunch of concept art?  Seems to me like other projects get a pass when it comes to the amount of content it'll take before someone pledges.

    Shroud of the Avatar had actual alpha footage (or even pre-alpha) in the very first video posted. People gave Torment and enormous pass.

     

    And really, I think the issue isn't just that there is nothing made, but it's also that what he has layed out is so vague that no one really know what his plans for specific things are going to be like.

     

    For instance, his video about how combat might be a hybrid model probably made a lot of the backers already start wondering about what is going to happen with this game compared to what they envisioned based on what he wrote in his blogs. I was always under the impression that since he was going old school, that he would go old school with the combat and stay with the more traditional tab-tageting system. I know there are a lot of posters here that prefer that type of combat and it probably came as a surpise to many. How many other things are going to be like that?

     

    I think he should be more specific about his design goals. When he talks about crafting, he says that they will build houses and keeps. Well, fine, but how are you going to make this work well in an MMORPG? Because if he doesn't know the answer to that question yet, then his ideas really are half-baked. And if he does know the answer to that question, then he should share it to get people excited.

    So, Mark is open about the approach and comes off vague. Others tell you nothing about specifics.......

    Is there really any difference? Would you rather nothing be Sid so you have no questions or conflict?

  • SpeelySpeely Seattle, WAPosts: 861Member
    Sounds like this game isn't for you. Hopefully it funds so you can check it out upon release with a better idea of what CSE is trying to do. I think a lot of us just really believe in the concept and know it won't see the light of day unless we support it.

    Also, this is a very niche game, and one without a big publisher. One reason for doing the Kickstarter pre-development is to gauge interest and support for the concept. Obviously, they don't want to devote time and money to something people don't believe in.

    But rest assured, it will fund and you can check it out in 2015 :)
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by outd00rminer
    Look at games like Torment and Shroud of the Avatar.  2 games that have well exceeded initial KS funding goals and who combined have shown maybe 5 screenshots and a bunch of concept art?  Seems to me like other projects get a pass when it comes to the amount of content it'll take before someone pledges.

    Shroud of the Avatar had actual alpha footage (or even pre-alpha) in the very first video posted. People gave Torment and enormous pass.

     

    And really, I think the issue isn't just that there is nothing made, but it's also that what he has layed out is so vague that no one really know what his plans for specific things are going to be like.

     

    For instance, his video about how combat might be a hybrid model probably made a lot of the backers already start wondering about what is going to happen with this game compared to what they envisioned based on what he wrote in his blogs. I was always under the impression that since he was going old school, that he would go old school with the combat and stay with the more traditional tab-tageting system. I know there are a lot of posters here that prefer that type of combat and it probably came as a surpise to many. How many other things are going to be like that?

     

    I think he should be more specific about his design goals. When he talks about crafting, he says that they will build houses and keeps. Well, fine, but how are you going to make this work well in an MMORPG? Because if he doesn't know the answer to that question yet, then his ideas really are half-baked. And if he does know the answer to that question, then he should share it to get people excited.

    So, Mark is open about the approach and comes off vague. Others tell you nothing about specifics.......

    Is there really any difference? Would you rather nothing be Sid so you have no questions or conflict?

    No, I would prefer specifics. I think a lot of people would. And I think it might help attract more people if he actually had them.

  • naezgulnaezgul Homer Glen, ILPosts: 374Member
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by outd00rminer
    Look at games like Torment and Shroud of the Avatar.  2 games that have well exceeded initial KS funding goals and who combined have shown maybe 5 screenshots and a bunch of concept art?  Seems to me like other projects get a pass when it comes to the amount of content it'll take before someone pledges.

    Shroud of the Avatar had actual alpha footage (or even pre-alpha) in the very first video posted. People gave Torment and enormous pass.

     

    And really, I think the issue isn't just that there is nothing made, but it's also that what he has layed out is so vague that no one really know what his plans for specific things are going to be like.

     

    For instance, his video about how combat might be a hybrid model probably made a lot of the backers already start wondering about what is going to happen with this game compared to what they envisioned based on what he wrote in his blogs. I was always under the impression that since he was going old school, that he would go old school with the combat and stay with the more traditional tab-tageting system. I know there are a lot of posters here that prefer that type of combat and it probably came as a surpise to many. How many other things are going to be like that?

     

    I think he should be more specific about his design goals. When he talks about crafting, he says that they will build houses and keeps. Well, fine, but how are you going to make this work well in an MMORPG? Because if he doesn't know the answer to that question yet, then his ideas really are half-baked. And if he does know the answer to that question, then he should share it to get people excited.

    So, Mark is open about the approach and comes off vague. Others tell you nothing about specifics.......

    Is there really any difference? Would you rather nothing be Sid so you have no questions or conflict?

    No, I would prefer specifics. I think a lot of people would. And I think it might help attract more people if he actually had them.

    Point is you don't get specifics....everyone would prefer them. It is a game in development ......how can you get specifics when dynamics and synergy need to be established. They have vague ideas coupled with strict IDEALS, during development things fall into place and balance.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by naezgul

    So, Mark is open about the approach and comes off vague. Others tell you nothing about specifics.......

    Is there really any difference? Would you rather nothing be Sid so you have no questions or conflict?

    No, I would prefer specifics. I think a lot of people would. And I think it might help attract more people if he actually had them.

    Point is you don't get specifics....everyone would prefer them. It is a game in development ......how can you get specifics when dynamics and synergy need to be established. They have vague ideas coupled with strict IDEALS, during development things fall into place and balance.

    Are you saying that you believe he does not have some kind of a plan drawn up that details how all of these systems fit together and can be implemented in an MMORPG yet?

  • AdorianBladeAdorianBlade kalamazoo, MIPosts: 62Member
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by naezgul

    So, Mark is open about the approach and comes off vague. Others tell you nothing about specifics.......

    Is there really any difference? Would you rather nothing be Sid so you have no questions or conflict?

    No, I would prefer specifics. I think a lot of people would. And I think it might help attract more people if he actually had them.

    Point is you don't get specifics....everyone would prefer them. It is a game in development ......how can you get specifics when dynamics and synergy need to be established. They have vague ideas coupled with strict IDEALS, during development things fall into place and balance.

    Are you saying that you believe he does not have some kind of a plan drawn up that details how all of these systems fit together and can be implemented in an MMORPG yet?

    Have you actually been in a development beta? Companies have ideas and plans up the wazoo and throw them out 5 times during development. What i dont understand is why people want specific mechanics laid out to them when CSE has stated that the backers will be  ahuge part in helping those be developed. They have siad backers will help us build our specific systems so if thats the case there is your answer.You think that you want a specific game pledge and get your voice heard, start a movement and leave your design concepts on the game.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AdorianBlade
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by naezgul

    So, Mark is open about the approach and comes off vague. Others tell you nothing about specifics.......

    Is there really any difference? Would you rather nothing be Sid so you have no questions or conflict?

    No, I would prefer specifics. I think a lot of people would. And I think it might help attract more people if he actually had them.

    Point is you don't get specifics....everyone would prefer them. It is a game in development ......how can you get specifics when dynamics and synergy need to be established. They have vague ideas coupled with strict IDEALS, during development things fall into place and balance.

    Are you saying that you believe he does not have some kind of a plan drawn up that details how all of these systems fit together and can be implemented in an MMORPG yet?

    Have you actually been in a development beta? Companies have ideas and plans up the wazoo and throw them out 5 times during development. What i dont understand is why people want specific mechanics laid out to them when CSE has stated that the backers will be  ahuge part in helping those be developed. They have siad backers will help us build our specific systems so if thats the case there is your answer.You think that you want a specific game pledge and get your voice heard, start a movement and leave your design concepts on the game.

    I understand what you're saying. Things will change so what is the point in giving details only to disappoint people later.

     

    But you see, he is proposing some pretty big ideas here. Crafters that build houses and keeps is a good example. While it sounds amazing and cool, it also sounds incredibly difficult to implement in a way that makes sense and works with everything else. Just having the idea doesn't give the idea value. I think there are big ideas about the game, that if he explained his thinking on them in more detail, he might be able to give more confidence to people about the project.

  • zekuelzekuel portage, INPosts: 38Member
    I think we will see alot more of game concept and videos before kickstarter ends and that may sway alot of people to donate. seems like they do have alot for just starting game and kickstarter. I think what could bring in alot of pledges is to see some CU characters in the engine 10K test also with some more detailed environment. It would be nice to hear at least 2 classes per realm if not 4 announced and how they invision them filling the trinity rolls. concept or not I think alot of players will play a game for the classes and there play style. I don't really find to much of a problem with not knowing because we will have healer, tank, dps, and hybrid classes which really opens it up for almost all play styles. Anyways I'm sure we will see alot more in the next 24 days. So if your on the edge just keep waiting and watching for something to push you over.
  • ComafComaf Chicago, ILPosts: 1,154Member Common
    Originally posted by syntax42

    Previous kickstarter campaigns I considered backing have shown videos of their completed work in a near-alpha state.  The games were playable, but all of the content had yet to be developed.  What does CU have, other than a legendary lead game developer who has shared his dream for the game?

     

    I can't justify pledging money to a bunch of promises with no substance.  I appreciate those who did, because that means the game might be funded and I might get to see the finished product.  I'm just not a fan of the kickstarter concept.  To me, it is worse than paying to get in to a beta.  Once you donate, there is no guarantee the game will turn into something you are interested in.  At least with paying for beta access, you have the chance to cancel a pre-order if you feel the game is not worth paying for.  I've never done it, but I want the option to be there, just in case.

    A legendary lead game developer who has shared his dream for the game...

     

    Reminds me of when the Captain (Steve Rogers played by actor, Chris Evans) asked Iron Man: "Big man, in a suit of armour... take that away, what are you?"
    Tony Stark: "Uh...genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist."

     

    I have utmost faith in Mr. Jacob's vision.  He's already done more for raising the bar in the mmoRPG industry than anyone else (he defined mmorpg warfare between actual nations, for God's sakes - everyone else is so lazy and uncreative they think everything is 5 races and 5 classes in a free for all zone).

     

    /salute

    image
  • chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member Common

    Actually I have been in development and now do other things beyond media development but more database programming. Point to that is however that you usually have, at this point a thousand or so pages of your concept and design ideas, without it, your shooting in the breeze with no clear goals which equals a failed product that will happen everytime without organized production and almost reminds me how warhammer seemed to go. Or you could do it without such, extend development time for another 2 years guessing as you go and have something come out which again I think warhammer came to be. Personally I am with most on this, if you don't have a solid concept foundation it is obviously not thought out or written down.

     

    However, it might get funded, enough people I know want a daoc two, however after reading blogs (as mentioned above) I have personally come to a conclusion that there is no true bible (as we say in the industry) that has the concepts in place and what the game will fully in tale. More like a binder full of ideas, that would be considered pre-concept stage. From what is said they are beyond this, I just don't see it thou with one post saying one thing and the next saying another. There is no true "vision" being shared.

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  • augustgraceaugustgrace Cottonwood, CAPosts: 624Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Comaf
     

     I have utmost faith in Mr. Jacob's vision.  He's already done more for raising the bar in the mmoRPG industry than anyone else (he defined mmorpg warfare between actual nations, for God's sakes - everyone else is so lazy and uncreative they think everything is 5 races and 5 classes in a free for all zone).

     

    /salute

    While DAoC started out going in the right direction, it ended up taking some wrong turns and in the end was pretty much abandoned in favor of WAR.  All that under MJ's leadership.

    And WAR itself..... an absoute travesty, also under MJ's leadership.  

    While RvR was a good idea, MJ also chose to abandon it in WAR which calls into question his judgement and commitment.  

    So what other industry shaping ideas did this "legendary" developer come up with?

    While I'm tentatively interested in CU, and largely forgive MJ for WAR, I think some people are vastly overstating his accomplishments and are destined to be disappointed. 

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Torment did pretty good hitting over 4 mil with some concept art pictures.
  • tinuelletinuelle bergenPosts: 287Member Uncommon

    If the idea doesnt sell off to you, i dont quite see why some pixel clusters should turn you on to it.

    But it is a kickstarter, and it seems to me that people confuse it with a per-order (and what comes with that, demos, videos, etc) and cant understand the project/philosophy of a ks.

    if you dont like the idea, it is not for you, and one should move on.

    If the money is the problem, then one should move on as well. It wont be cheaper after or if it it funds, and for some $ 25 is a small fortune.

    if you prefer complete products before parting with those very hard earned $25+, then There are many released Mmo's and also F2P games.

    as for what has been completed, well they have kicked off the kickstarter and awoken a couple of trolls as well it seems :)

    This one is gonna be funded by the Trolls as well as the kickstarters, as the Trolls are gonna love a 2 year+ of trolling Even before it is released. Hehehe......

    image
  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Its on kickstarter, not kickfinisher.
  • chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member Common
    meh ,if you read my post earlier it's very viable concern, I think those that dropped out (myself encluded) whom initially pledge a good amount realized what I did on my previous post. Just saying, I can tell you what I think a  great MMO should have and post that as my game? Meh, a solid idea and structure needs to be shown more, I thought by now he would have that at least. Sadly I am now with most here on agreement we really have no clue what this game is really about except a concept. Sorry , but that is not enough for a pledge small or large in my eyes. Obviously thou others disagree, that's their choice of course.

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  • SorninSornin Richmond, BCPosts: 1,133Member
    Originally posted by outd00rminer
    Look at games like Torment and Shroud of the Avatar.  2 games that have well exceeded initial KS funding goals and who combined have shown maybe 5 screenshots and a bunch of concept art?  Seems to me like other projects get a pass when it comes to the amount of content it'll take before someone pledges.

    Shroud of the Avatar had some actual working content to show but yes, Torment had just barely more to show than CU; in some areas, less, yet people had no problem pledging. This shows it does not always matter whether you can show some pre-release alpha footage or not.

    Torment rode on the backs of Wasteland 2's success and its fans, and hey, power to it - use every advantage you have. Still, I find it funny whenever someone says, "Why pledge to something in the conceptual phase?" (I put it nicely).

    1. That is precisely when a project truly needs Kickstarter - see the "starter" part?

    2. I do not put much more faith in a project that shows footage or more media. It is not too difficult to put together something like this quite early on and have it reflect little of what gameplay will be like. It can be nice to make people pay attention, but it is no more a promise than ideas.

    I judge a Kickstarter project on its ideas and the reputation and passion of the team behind it. CU is not going to have much to show other than ideas because, yes, it is very early in development. There is no game yet, just design concepts, art, and a plan. There is also a team led by two guys who actually have quality, commercially successful games shipped. That plays heavily into deciding whether to back. This is not someone like the Greed Monger guy who used to promote MMA fights and such, these are professional developers.

    Anyway, everyone has their own criteria for what they need to see, read, and hear before making a pledge, and that's fine.

    image

  • naezgulnaezgul Homer Glen, ILPosts: 374Member
    Originally posted by Sornin
    Originally posted by outd00rminer
    Look at games like Torment and Shroud of the Avatar.  2 games that have well exceeded initial KS funding goals and who combined have shown maybe 5 screenshots and a bunch of concept art?  Seems to me like other projects get a pass when it comes to the amount of content it'll take before someone pledges.

    Shroud of the Avatar had some actual working content to show but yes, Torment had just barely more to show than CU; in some areas, less, yet people had no problem pledging. This shows it does not always matter whether you can show some pre-release alpha footage or not.

    Torment rode on the backs of Wasteland 2's success and its fans, and hey, power to it - use every advantage you have. Still, I find it funny whenever someone says, "Why pledge to something in the conceptual phase?" (I put it nicely).

    1. That is precisely when a project truly needs Kickstarter - see the "starter" part?

    2. I do not put much more faith in a project that shows footage or more media. It is not too difficult to put together something like this quite early on and have it reflect little of what gameplay will be like. It can be nice to make people pay attention, but it is no more a promise than ideas.

    I judge a Kickstarter project on its ideas and the reputation and passion of the team behind it. CU is not going to have much to show other than ideas because, yes, it is very early in development. There is no game yet, just design concepts, art, and a plan. There is also a team led by two guys who actually have quality, commercially successful games shipped. That plays heavily into deciding whether to back. This is not someone like the Greed Monger guy who used to promote MMA fights and such, these are professional developers.

    Anyway, everyone has their own criteria for what they need to see, read, and hear before making a pledge, and that's fine.

    Torment audience dwarfs that of DAoC fans, CU supporters

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILPosts: 2,656Member Uncommon

    Dunno. If all he has is ideas floating around and is expecting his Kickstarter supporters to help mold his vision then isn't he risking a repeat of what happened during his reign of DAoC? I mean correct me if I'm wrong but I remember clearly that it was the players and the devs listening to the players that screwed up DAoC.

     

    But what's truly disheartening is the decision to focus solely on PvP while short changing PvE players, especially when you throw in crafting and structure building features. I mean don't get me wrong. I'm not speaking of the PvE'ers who's bread and butter is raiding. WAR proved that having that kind of PvE is counter-productive if your game revolves around PvP. But it seems that unintentionally, the potential playerbase for CU that is all for PvPing are lumping PvE (non raiders) with PvE (raiders) and saying if you don't like it, leave.

     

    So now we're at a point where I believe more clarification is needed. If the PvE aspects of CU is not going to revolve around supporting PvE raiders (something I fully support) and also will not support PvE warmongers (those that enjoy a more supportive role in PvP) then they have effectively alienated a huge portion of support for CU.  I mean, yes, both kinds of PvE'ers need varied content to maintain their interest. But while PvE raiders desire content on the tailend of the leveling journey, PvE warmongers desire content during that journey to max level.

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

«1
Sign In or Register to comment.