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Outlaws, Traitors, Spammers, and Debt.

TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless ColumnistM, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

I've been talking a lot about a bounty system for killing players on the opposite relm, but what about those bad/annoying/harassing players within your own?

The outlaws, traitors, chat spammers, and beggers than you loan money to? It would be nice to be able to hold them to some sort of standard. Something that keeps them in line, keeps them from trying to bother relmmates.

I have 2 systems in mind.

1. A complaint system. If you get enough complaints (about the same issue) from other players it flags you outlaw and anyone on your relm can attack you on sight (naturally you can fight back) but your name stays flagged for either X amount of time (with time increasing every time you acquire enough complains to get flagged again) or until you get killed by your relmmates (with amount of deaths required to unflag you adding on if you keep getting flagged). These flags go into your character bio and stats which other players can see. That way, if you want to be a bad relmy it's on your characters permanent record. This is a delicate system and steps would need to be taken to make sure it doesn't get abused (lets all complain about this guy to kill him) for example. It could also work with annoying chat spammers, if they get ignored by enough players they get flagged.

I thought this system could be used to keep people from being lame, but it could also add a lot of excitement.

2. A contract system. This is more for those beggars that sit near city gates and ask everyone for money/gear/etc. They can agree to a contract that says you will loan them X in return for X and if they don't pay you back by a set date they become flagged to you and your guild mates. This could carry over to some of the gambling mini games in a tavern for example. Bet on X, if you don't have the cash, your flagged.

Yes? No? or as gold farmers like to say, yesno?

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Comments

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Nah. Just have good customer service reps who suspend or ban the truly annoying people (gold farm spammers, racist assholes, hackers, cross realmers, etc.).

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • VanshoodieVanshoodie Russellville, ALPosts: 34Member
    There would have to be some serious checks and balances. No offense to you guys, but I don't have enough faith in people to have a system like that based off a good citizen report. People would try to start griefing people with that system.
  • KappenWizKappenWiz Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 162Member

    It's an interesting idea, but for the regular servers I don't think it would work. Remember the Mordred (I think they were on Mordred) guild, Dark Wolves, or something, that used to just grief people on purpose with loot steals, ripoffs, infiltrating guilds and then stealing everything, etc. They would have a field day with this kind of thing, "fixing" complaints so they could grief a particular player. YouTube is even bigger today than then, so it would just encourage them.

    On a different ruleset server, maybe something like this could be implemented, but down the road.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,428Member Uncommon

    You know i have actually played games with a bounty system and i never liked one bit of it.This doesn't mean these guys won't do it better,but i highly doubt it is a system that could ever be done right.

    Where a Bounty system really goes off board is when any kind of cash shop is tied into it,then you might as well quit the game right there.You also need to remember other aspects like a player that is far superior to another does not really create a system at all,just an automated kill imo.So where do you draw the line,imo you can't,like i said it is a design that fails pretty much all the time.

    I once thought about what if...

    What if a system waited for several players to ask for the same bounty,that doesn't work either,all you need si a group of friends or a large guild and it is a system once again broken.

    IMO doing anything with pvp that is not simply a fps shooter in a well designed area,is trying to do too much.Thjat is why games liek Unreal and Quake and Cod were so successful,they kept it simple while still maintaining a skill aspect.


    Samoan Diamond

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    I think it would take some creativity and caution to implement but I think it is very doable.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    I was thinking about this some more. Just searching for a way to give some braze/criminal types a chance to really live out that pirate outlaw playstyle.

    Maybe the idea is more like a "spy/infiltrator" class that can flag themselves for the other faction but with a high risk of being discovered somehow?

  • zekuelzekuel portage, INPosts: 38Member
    I like the idea of contract kills. Can put up 10 gold for first person to kill x-player 10 times(someone you hate and get rolled by all the time), but I only think this will work if you have assassin/hunter/scout type classes that have tracking skills. Maybe if you are with in 3000units you can see player footprints on ground if you are using tracking skills. Even further you could hunt down groups that are near you or players you have recently targeted.
  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,471Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    I think it would take some creativity and caution to implement but I think it is very doable.

     Prove it.  Right now you are proposing a magic box solution as if there is one.  If it is doable, show us your creative solution.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Xobdnas I think it would take some creativity and caution to implement but I think it is very doable.
     Prove it.  Right now you are proposing a magic box solution as if there is one.  If it is doable, show us your creative solution.

    I don't know if I'm up to the challenge, I was hoping someone on here was lol.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    OK, lets try this.

    Independent faction! Outlaws. What? They have 0 cities other than what they can build and even then they are limited to rugged camps and thrown together stuff. They have no city. No safe zone. No protection anywhere. They live in the warzone and, here it is, they can attack all 3 factions, BUT they can be attacked by all 3 factions.

    99% of the people I know would never do this, but I know of several guilds in EVE that exist solely to create anarchy and disturb EVERYONE.

    Add into the outlaws that they can do some sort of temp spy something to sneak into the towns and cities of the tri-relms, but they have a high detection rate. The benefit is they get to use some of the facilities, the negative is they will probably flag at some point.

    Getting closer?

  • LawtoweenLawtoween Houston, TXPosts: 103Member

    To the original idea, just make it so that if you issue a complaint against someone else, they gain a point toward the flag AND you gain a point toward being flagged.  This reduces reprisals, and makes the initiator think twice before doing it.  Also require a category of complaint (griefer, camper, beggar, gold seller, offensive spammer, etc.) with flagger going against the person issuing the complaint.  You get hit with the "free to kill" flag after receiving some number of points in the same category.  CSE also has a monthly (weekly?) flagged report they can review to determine if there is someone who requires stronger action.

    Even like this I admit it can still be abused, but at least if an account is getting tagged with the flagger category too heavily, CSE is able to contact that person and reprimand them.

    Lawt

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Lawtoween
    To the original idea, just make it so that if you issue a complaint against someone else, they gain a point toward the flag AND you gain a point toward being flagged.  This reduces reprisals, and makes the initiator think twice before doing it.  Also require a category of complaint (griefer, camper, beggar, gold seller, offensive spammer, etc.) with flagger going against the person issuing the complaint.  You get hit with the "free to kill" flag after receiving some number of points in the same category.  CSE also has a monthly (weekly?) flagged report they can review to determine if there is someone who requires stronger action.Even like this I admit it can still be abused, but at least if an account is getting tagged with the flagger category too heavily, CSE is able to contact that person and reprimand them.Lawt

    Thats interesting and might work since decent players dont get many flags, but the annoying ones do (from multiple sources) so the annoying ones would get flagged while the decent ones probably never would. I'm also going back and forth on if the "outlaw" should go on a bounty hunting list (killable by their own faction) or if they should just get flagged red and be kill on sight for anyone of that relm. I think I like the bounty system better.

  • Lore84Lore84 NorthamptonPosts: 69Member
    I remember this sort of thread coming up before. This is a pointless system and is a terrible idea. Wrong game for it. Time needs to be spent on developing what matters in this game and this system would just feel tacked on. People should just get their accounts suspended for this type of behaviour, involving them in further gameplay is a reward.

    No need for any bounty system.

    Ex-DAOC, Excalibur

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Lore84
    I remember this sort of thread coming up before. This is a pointless system and is a terrible idea. Wrong game for it. Time needs to be spent on developing what matters in this game and this system would just feel tacked on. People should just get their accounts suspended for this type of behaviour, involving them in further gameplay is a reward. No need for any bounty system.

    Even if you ban them they will just get another act. Socially shaming them, labeling ALL the characters they make under that account with a permanent scarlet letter, that might be interesting. When you HAVE to start new characters the choice is easy, when the choice is keep my leveled character but get killed, get a debuff, and get a marker that I was behaving badly that lasts for X amount of time, that might be interesting.

  • Lore84Lore84 NorthamptonPosts: 69Member
    I disagree, it wont be interesting and it wouldn't even be enforceable, if people create new accounts as you say it would render that system useless anyway. Its an rvr game, theres plenty of people to kill on the other side.

    Ex-DAOC, Excalibur

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Lore84
    I disagree, it wont be interesting and it wouldn't even be enforceable, if people create new accounts as you say it would render that system useless anyway. Its an rvr game, theres plenty of people to kill on the other side.

    I just like mixing in as much random variance to killing as we can to keep it fresh....that sentence might have just shown I've grown a bit desensitized to...no all humans are good at 2 things, fighting and f...ing, it's in our DNA.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    In the french interview MJ mentioned a unique system. When asked about players building houses in places to grief other players he said we can't kill them because they are our relm mates, but we should be able to group up and remove the structure. I don't know how that would work, but it's interesting. I think still prefer the scarlet letter/bounty/temp flag approach myself.

  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member

    Live GMs ,Fallen Earth can do it for free™.

    so

    So ,hey Master xxxxx,look at this gold spammer etc,,5 second and gone.

     

    Let's internet

  • binskkibinskki Bourbonnais, ILPosts: 153Member

    This is a deeply-satisfying idea...but unfortunately there are just too many ways that unethical people can abuse it.

    In this, it's much like my perennial fantasy idea for improving traffic safety...let us all mount spray-paint guns on our cars and spray Day-Glo orange streaks on people we see doing idiotic things!  This would both punish the idiots and allow other motorists to more easily identify and avoid them,  reducing the number of accidents...

    I know it's a fantasy - and it would all go terribly wrong...but I hear you, Xobdnas .  And boy, would I ever love to have that paint gun sometimes, lol. :D

     

    In all seriousness, the presence of a dedicated GM/customer service team who respond promptly to issues is probably our best hope for controlling this sort of undesirable behavior.

     

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXPosts: 3,480Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

     


    Originally posted by waynejr2

    Originally posted by Xobdnas I think it would take some creativity and caution to implement but I think it is very doable.
     Prove it.  Right now you are proposing a magic box solution as if there is one.  If it is doable, show us your creative solution.

     

    I don't know if I'm up to the challenge, I was hoping someone on here was lol.

    I'm sure ArcheAge will be out before Camelot Unchained and they have an in-game court system where murderers drop evidence on the ground and can eventually be convicted and thrown in jail. How about we go ask some of those people who have played it and hear what they have to say about it?

    image

  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member

    I agree that annoying people on your own faction can be an issue.  But automated systems are always just fuel for griefers.  The people you want to target are never the real targets of the system, they just exploit it to mess with people even more.

    I sort of wish you could just kill your own faction.  But thats probably not happening just because so many people are averse to that sort of system.

  • StrommStromm BrisbanePosts: 243Member
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    I've been talking a lot about a bounty system for killing players on the opposite relm, but what about those bad/annoying/harassing players within your own?

    The outlaws, traitors, chat spammers, and beggers than you loan money to? It would be nice to be able to hold them to some sort of standard. Something that keeps them in line, keeps them from trying to bother relmmates.

    Hehe, funny. :-)

    Outlaws and Traitors.

    Chat Spammers and Beggars that you loan money to.

    You're killin' me here man.

     

    I have a few to add:

    Bad clothing dye choices, "Really? That cape with those shoes?".

    Bad character names, like "Legolis" or "Aragawn" or "Krapemeht".

    Keyboard turners.

    Clickers.

    People with high pings.

    Frequent AFKers.

    Mac owners.

    People who chose to play a class I don't need right now.

    Red Heads.

     

     

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    Originally posted by Stromm
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    I've been talking a lot about a bounty system for killing players on the opposite relm, but what about those bad/annoying/harassing players within your own?

    The outlaws, traitors, chat spammers, and beggers than you loan money to? It would be nice to be able to hold them to some sort of standard. Something that keeps them in line, keeps them from trying to bother relmmates.

    Hehe, funny. :-)

    Outlaws and Traitors.

    Chat Spammers and Beggars that you loan money to.

    You're killin' me here man.

     

    I have a few to add:

    Bad clothing dye choices, "Really? That cape with those shoes?".

    Bad character names, like "Legolis" or "Aragawn" or "Krapemeht".

    Keyboard turners.

    Clickers.

    People with high pings.

    Frequent AFKers.

    Mac owners.

    People who chose to play a class I don't need right now.

    Red Heads.

     

     

    And so begins a very slippery slope.

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    Sounds like brit.. i mean albion oppression to me.
  • GrimborGrimbor Houston, TXPosts: 23Member
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    I've been talking a lot about a bounty system for killing players on the opposite relm, but what about those bad/annoying/harassing players within your own?

    The outlaws, traitors, chat spammers, and beggers than you loan money to? It would be nice to be able to hold them to some sort of standard. Something that keeps them in line, keeps them from trying to bother relmmates.

    I have 2 systems in mind.

    1. A complaint system. If you get enough complaints (about the same issue) from other players it flags you outlaw and anyone on your relm can attack you on sight (naturally you can fight back) but your name stays flagged for either X amount of time (with time increasing every time you acquire enough complains to get flagged again) or until you get killed by your relmmates (with amount of deaths required to unflag you adding on if you keep getting flagged). These flags go into your character bio and stats which other players can see. That way, if you want to be a bad relmy it's on your characters permanent record. This is a delicate system and steps would need to be taken to make sure it doesn't get abused (lets all complain about this guy to kill him) for example. It could also work with annoying chat spammers, if they get ignored by enough players they get flagged.

    I thought this system could be used to keep people from being lame, but it could also add a lot of excitement.

    2. A contract system. This is more for those beggars that sit near city gates and ask everyone for money/gear/etc. They can agree to a contract that says you will loan them X in return for X and if they don't pay you back by a set date they become flagged to you and your guild mates. This could carry over to some of the gambling mini games in a tavern for example. Bet on X, if you don't have the cash, your flagged.

    Yes? No? or as gold farmers like to say, yesno?

    I agree it can be a problem and  very annoying, but complaint systems like this usually end up causing more grief than they prevent.

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