Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Update 9 Combat

2»

Comments

  • grogstormgrogstorm Peyton, COPosts: 304Member Uncommon

    I think archers/casters should be similar to siege equipment for their aoe attacks and allowed tab targeting for specific targets/fast attacks.  In essence, one can follow a moving target (tab targeting) and try to hit them regardless if it’s a quick arrow (archer) or a magic missile (caster).   But when those classes decide they want to use a mass damage aoe skill they have to place to target area on the ground and fire at that area.  Also there should be auto targeting where you can just fire and whomever is closest in your line of sight get targeted (along with target ring under tgt).  Reticule targeting is more for a game that allows movement while firing and I believe CU will not allow that.

    Grog

  • VanshoodieVanshoodie Russellville, ALPosts: 34Member
    Originally posted by meddyck
    Somebody explain to me what the difference is between an archer tab-target firing and a caster tab-target firing. I'm not getting why one class would need to use a reticle and the other wouldn't. Just don't make archer damage so powerful that they 1 or 2 shot people like in early DAOC. Then you can have archers play like other classes instead of trying to making them so cumbersome to play that nobody will want to. Reticle targetting in a mass RvR game is retarded. Every class needs to be able to target lock. This update just seems like pandering to people who drool over games like TERA.

    This was my first reaction also. Maybe he was just singling out Archers as an example, I dunno. Are they suggesting towards a combat system similar to Neverwinter and other recent games in beta that can't be named where you basically face the mob to acquire target?

  • ToodlesToodles 90210, AKPosts: 77Member Uncommon

    So archers get to play skill combat, and casters get to play rollface tabmode even though they have the exact same playstyles, only variable being projecticles vs magic.

     

    One other person put it perfectly, Darkfall rendered magic as projectiles. This made it much more skill competent than faceroll.

     

    If you don't want to add an archer class, then don't do it. Don't add some inferior product like this reticle archer while you let casters continue to faceroll target tab like they did in daoc. I can say that because I played a theurgist from release of aoc when the first pvp at 20-30 happened in lancelot in the MMG's in emain through SI where chain casting air nukes via tab target was just an absolute slaughter fest. Playing an archer is no different than playing a caster class, so trying to make this 'novel' change is lackluster.

  • OdamanOdaman Satesboro, GAPosts: 194Member
    I'll wait a bit before I say the sky is falling. Reticle targeting in a large scale fight.... does not sound appealing or even viable though.
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXPosts: 3,480Member Uncommon

    Just going to chime in here with some known facts about reticule aiming... that being aimbots. Any game I've played online that requires aiming generally attracts hackers and cheaters who use them. Just some example of MMOs or online games that required aiming to hit your target that are known to have cheaters using aimbots.

    1) Darkfall

    2) Planetside and Planetside 2

    3) APB and APB: Reloaded

    4) All Call of Duty series

    5) All of Battlefield series

    Basically any game thats played online that requires aiming, is guaranteed to attract hackers and cheaters. Doesn't mean everyone will cheat, but even 5 per server is enough to notice its annoyance and I'm pretty sure the games listed above have more than 5 people who cheat per server.

    At this time, I am going to have to disagree with traditional aiming reticule for CU. Last thing I want is for this great game to be ripped to shreds with cheaters or the possibility of them in game simply for rumors sake for the legitimate aiming pro's being accused of such.

    BAD BAD IDEA! Sorry...

    image

  • naezgulnaezgul Homer Glen, ILPosts: 374Member
    Originally posted by Toodles

    So archers get to play skill combat, and casters get to play rollface tabmode even though they have the exact same playstyles, only variable being projecticles vs magic.

     

    One other person put it perfectly, Darkfall rendered magic as projectiles. This made it much more skill competent than faceroll.

     

    If you don't want to add an archer class, then don't do it. Don't add some inferior product like this reticle archer while you let casters continue to faceroll target tab like they did in daoc. I can say that because I played a theurgist from release of aoc when the first pvp at 20-30 happened in lancelot in the MMG's in emain through SI where chain casting air nukes via tab target was just an absolute slaughter fest. Playing an archer is no different than playing a caster class, so trying to make this 'novel' change is lackluster.

    Without instants, cast able stuns, various CC , nearsighted 

  • MikeJezZMikeJezZ HillerødPosts: 1,197Member

    I actually think many will get away from the game because of archers has to aim.

     

    It want's to be a shooter. yet it still wants to key spam. So I have to aim with my mouse, and spam 1,2,3,45,6,6 etc.?

     

    While mages can tab target, and warriors.

    Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
    MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
    KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  • ExarchiExarchi BathPosts: 17Member

    What about the League of Legends approach?

    Where you can fire non-aimed shots for lower damage but more powerfull shots are skillshots that require aim/lead. Requiring understanding of projectile speed, experience and skill.

    This would be the same for bolts/missiles on mages, and possibly any thrown weapons on melee classes.

    Ranged AOE spells would take the GTAOE (daoc) type approach - like aoe spells in LoL - but it would obviously need to be much smoother and quicker than it was in DAOC.

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 467Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Exarchi

    What about the League of Legends approach?

    Where you can fire non-aimed shots for lower damage but more powerfull shots are skillshots that require aim/lead. Requiring understanding of projectile speed, experience and skill.

    This would be the same for bolts/missiles on mages, and possibly any thrown weapons on melee classes.

    Ranged AOE spells would take the GTAOE (daoc) type approach - like aoe spells in LoL - but it would obviously need to be much smoothers and quicker than it was in DAOC.

    Hmm... :)

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • naezgulnaezgul Homer Glen, ILPosts: 374Member
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Exarchi

    What about the League of Legends approach?

    Where you can fire non-aimed shots for lower damage but more powerfull shots are skillshots that require aim/lead. Requiring understanding of projectile speed, experience and skill.

    This would be the same for bolts/missiles on mages, and possibly any thrown weapons on melee classes.

    Ranged AOE spells would take the GTAOE (daoc) type approach - like aoe spells in LoL - but it would obviously need to be much smoothers and quicker than it was in DAOC.

    Hmm... :)

    I'm out in these cases...

    isnt the point of an RPGs to be able to do things you can't in real life?

    its a visual bridge from p&p RPGs 

    whats the point of dumping all my stat points in dex if my eyes and clumsy fingers can't respond?

    Isn't that another game genre made for?

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 467Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Exarchi

    What about the League of Legends approach?

    Where you can fire non-aimed shots for lower damage but more powerfull shots are skillshots that require aim/lead. Requiring understanding of projectile speed, experience and skill.

    This would be the same for bolts/missiles on mages, and possibly any thrown weapons on melee classes.

    Ranged AOE spells would take the GTAOE (daoc) type approach - like aoe spells in LoL - but it would obviously need to be much smoothers and quicker than it was in DAOC.

    Hmm... :)

    I'm out in these cases...

    isnt the point of an RPGs to be able to do things you can't in real life?

    its a visual bridge from p&p RPGs 

    whats the point of dumping all my stat points in dex if my eyes and clumsy fingers can't respond?

    Isn't that another game genre made for?

    That's why all of this is subject to debate and refinement. I'm not trying to make a twitch game however, I also want to experiment with some things I've seen in other games. I honestly believe we should be looking at different ways to make MMORPGs more fun for the RPG crowd. I've said the same thing about stealth, it's too easy to simply say "Do it the DAoC way" or "No way, no stealth!" instead of experimenting with different systems to see what works. That's one of the best things about the focus on fewer classes, no PvE leveling track, we will have the time to test different things.

    Edit: I'm a core RPGer, not an action guy. :)

     

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • naezgulnaezgul Homer Glen, ILPosts: 374Member
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Exarchi

    What about the League of Legends approach?

    Where you can fire non-aimed shots for lower damage but more powerfull shots are skillshots that require aim/lead. Requiring understanding of projectile speed, experience and skill.

    This would be the same for bolts/missiles on mages, and possibly any thrown weapons on melee classes.

    Ranged AOE spells would take the GTAOE (daoc) type approach - like aoe spells in LoL - but it would obviously need to be much smoothers and quicker than it was in DAOC.

    Hmm... :)

    I'm out in these cases...

    isnt the point of an RPGs to be able to do things you can't in real life?

    its a visual bridge from p&p RPGs 

    whats the point of dumping all my stat points in dex if my eyes and clumsy fingers can't respond?

    Isn't that another game genre made for?

    That's why all of this is subject to debate and refinement. I'm not trying to make a twitch game however, I also want to experiment with some things I've seen in other games. I honestly believe we should be looking at different ways to make MMORPGs more fun for the RPG crowd. I've said the same thing about stealth, it's too easy to simply say "Do it the DAoC way" or "No way, no stealth!" instead of experimenting with different systems to see what works. That's one of the best things about the focus on fewer classes, no PvE leveling track, we will have the time to test different things.

    Edit: I'm a core RPGer, not an action guy. :)

     

    I wish other people got this......so many are bashing you because nothing is concrete or specifics aren't laid out.

     

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 467Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Exarchi

    What about the League of Legends approach?

    Where you can fire non-aimed shots for lower damage but more powerfull shots are skillshots that require aim/lead. Requiring understanding of projectile speed, experience and skill.

    This would be the same for bolts/missiles on mages, and possibly any thrown weapons on melee classes.

    Ranged AOE spells would take the GTAOE (daoc) type approach - like aoe spells in LoL - but it would obviously need to be much smoothers and quicker than it was in DAOC.

    Hmm... :)

    I'm out in these cases...

    isnt the point of an RPGs to be able to do things you can't in real life?

    its a visual bridge from p&p RPGs 

    whats the point of dumping all my stat points in dex if my eyes and clumsy fingers can't respond?

    Isn't that another game genre made for?

    That's why all of this is subject to debate and refinement. I'm not trying to make a twitch game however, I also want to experiment with some things I've seen in other games. I honestly believe we should be looking at different ways to make MMORPGs more fun for the RPG crowd. I've said the same thing about stealth, it's too easy to simply say "Do it the DAoC way" or "No way, no stealth!" instead of experimenting with different systems to see what works. That's one of the best things about the focus on fewer classes, no PvE leveling track, we will have the time to test different things.

    Edit: I'm a core RPGer, not an action guy. :)

     

    I wish other people got this......so many are bashing you because nothing is concrete or specifics aren't laid out.

     

    Yeah. Most (not all) KS projects have less laid out then we have if you look at the Foundational Principles. Some have shiny demos but little specifics. Others have specifics but not so shiny demos. Anyone who claims that they have an MMO all laid out from the beginning and that *nothing* is ever going to change during development is either delusional, stupid or lying. Some points, absolutely but everything? I wasn't foolish enought to say that during WAR's development. :)

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,498Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Exarchi

    What about the League of Legends approach?

    Where you can fire non-aimed shots for lower damage but more powerfull shots are skillshots that require aim/lead. Requiring understanding of projectile speed, experience and skill.

    This would be the same for bolts/missiles on mages, and possibly any thrown weapons on melee classes.

    Ranged AOE spells would take the GTAOE (daoc) type approach - like aoe spells in LoL - but it would obviously need to be much smoothers and quicker than it was in DAOC.

    Hmm... :)

    I'm out in these cases...

    isnt the point of an RPGs to be able to do things you can't in real life?

    its a visual bridge from p&p RPGs 

    whats the point of dumping all my stat points in dex if my eyes and clumsy fingers can't respond?

    Isn't that another game genre made for?

    That's why all of this is subject to debate and refinement. I'm not trying to make a twitch game however, I also want to experiment with some things I've seen in other games. I honestly believe we should be looking at different ways to make MMORPGs more fun for the RPG crowd. I've said the same thing about stealth, it's too easy to simply say "Do it the DAoC way" or "No way, no stealth!" instead of experimenting with different systems to see what works. That's one of the best things about the focus on fewer classes, no PvE leveling track, we will have the time to test different things.

    Edit: I'm a core RPGer, not an action guy. :)

     

    I wish other people got this......so many are bashing you because nothing is concrete or specifics aren't laid out.

     

    Yeah. Most (not all) KS projects have less laid out then we have if you look at the Foundational Principles. Some have shiny demos but little specifics. Others have specifics but not so shiny demos. Anyone who claims that they have an MMO all laid out from the beginning and that *nothing* is ever going to change during development is either delusional, stupid or lying. Some points, absolutely but everything? I wasn't foolish enought to say that during WAR's development. :)

    I don't think anyone is saying *nothing* will change from the beginning of development to the end. But I think a lot of people feel like it really has been sparse on the specifics. Major systems that can be deal breakers for many aren't really discussed in any detail at all. Perhaps this is on purpose and perhaps not, but it would be nice to believe there was something more solid than the foundational principles at this point.

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 467Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Exarchi

    What about the League of Legends approach?

    Where you can fire non-aimed shots for lower damage but more powerfull shots are skillshots that require aim/lead. Requiring understanding of projectile speed, experience and skill.

    This would be the same for bolts/missiles on mages, and possibly any thrown weapons on melee classes.

    Ranged AOE spells would take the GTAOE (daoc) type approach - like aoe spells in LoL - but it would obviously need to be much smoothers and quicker than it was in DAOC.

    Hmm... :)

    I'm out in these cases...

    isnt the point of an RPGs to be able to do things you can't in real life?

    its a visual bridge from p&p RPGs 

    whats the point of dumping all my stat points in dex if my eyes and clumsy fingers can't respond?

    Isn't that another game genre made for?

    That's why all of this is subject to debate and refinement. I'm not trying to make a twitch game however, I also want to experiment with some things I've seen in other games. I honestly believe we should be looking at different ways to make MMORPGs more fun for the RPG crowd. I've said the same thing about stealth, it's too easy to simply say "Do it the DAoC way" or "No way, no stealth!" instead of experimenting with different systems to see what works. That's one of the best things about the focus on fewer classes, no PvE leveling track, we will have the time to test different things.

    Edit: I'm a core RPGer, not an action guy. :)

     

    I wish other people got this......so many are bashing you because nothing is concrete or specifics aren't laid out.

     

    Yeah. Most (not all) KS projects have less laid out then we have if you look at the Foundational Principles. Some have shiny demos but little specifics. Others have specifics but not so shiny demos. Anyone who claims that they have an MMO all laid out from the beginning and that *nothing* is ever going to change during development is either delusional, stupid or lying. Some points, absolutely but everything? I wasn't foolish enought to say that during WAR's development. :)

    I don't think anyone is saying *nothing* will change from the beginning of development to the end. But I think a lot of people feel like it really has been sparse on the specifics. Major systems that can be deal breakers for many aren't really discussed in any detail at all. Perhaps this is on purpose and perhaps not, but it would be nice to believe there was something more solid than the foundational principles at this point.

    I get that, I truly do and that is one reason I'm putting in my own money and will put more in if we run late. That's my way of taking the big risk on my shoulders (well, bank account) rather than try to fund the game through KS donations alone. 

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • StilerStiler Athens, TNPosts: 599Member
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Exarchi

    What about the League of Legends approach?

    Where you can fire non-aimed shots for lower damage but more powerfull shots are skillshots that require aim/lead. Requiring understanding of projectile speed, experience and skill.

    This would be the same for bolts/missiles on mages, and possibly any thrown weapons on melee classes.

    Ranged AOE spells would take the GTAOE (daoc) type approach - like aoe spells in LoL - but it would obviously need to be much smoothers and quicker than it was in DAOC.

    Hmm... :)

    I'm out in these cases...

    isnt the point of an RPGs to be able to do things you can't in real life?

    its a visual bridge from p&p RPGs 

    whats the point of dumping all my stat points in dex if my eyes and clumsy fingers can't respond?

    Isn't that another game genre made for?

    There are ways you can have rpg mechanics while still also allowing the players input of said actions to matter.

     

    Mount and Blade is an rpg, it's also an action game.

    You have a variety of skills and attributes you build up like any classic rpg, which in-turn affects your ability to do things, such as firing a bow for instance.

     

    When you use a bow in Mount and Blade for instance, you first draw your arrow, nock it onto the bow, aim, and fire. Your aim gets worse the longer you hold it (just as in real life, if you hold a bow you're putting your strength to test, which leads to worse aim/swaying the longer you hold it).

    Now with variuous upgrades the game can change this in many ways.

    From being able to nock your arrow quicker for quicker reloading. To higher strength which can let you keep your aim longer/pull the bow further. Better aiming recticle (IE it uses a rectile that gets "smaller/bigger," th elonger yu hold the bow the wider the rectile, with a better skill you can aim better with the rectile.

    So your characters skills, STILL matter and do make a fundemental difference in your playstyle and how your characters "uses" the bow, but the action of firing it, of aiming, letting the arrow fly, etc is still very much also a part of the players input as well.

    It's a good mix that both makes the rpg side flow well while also letting gameplay be influenced by the players actions.

     

    League of  Legends was brought up, and to me it gives you an example of this.. In League you have MANY different champions, wiht their own specific abilities.  Some heroes have "skillshots" (bascially meaning you have to aim and get used to the speed/abilitiy).  Some heroes have the majority of these in their kit (IE Ezreal, he's almost a pure skill-shot champion) and some have a mix, a skillshot or two, then normal style abilities where you click on the person or hotcast.  Now some heroes, do not have skillshots, infact some have zero skillshots  (IE Garen).

    Both champions are "viable," both have their place, and BOTH can be extremely deadly depending on the player and how they use them. This offers both types of players an bility to play the game how they want and interact with each toher. I have bseen many non-skillshot champions dominate skillshot ones and vice versa. It's all about variety and balancing it all.

    Mark mentions  a "hybrid" system and to me this sounds similar (in theory/mechanis). League has this in spades with it's champions and their abilties, offering a wide play-style to players that lets them find their heroes they enjoy.

     

2»
Sign In or Register to comment.