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Name one game successfully funded by Kickstarter AND released

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  • fanglofanglo Virginia, VAPosts: 290Member

    One of my favorite musicians Joy Electric used Kickstarter to release his latest Album Dwarf Mountian Alphabet. The CD was released and all the backers have recieved what they were promised. 

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/146183208/joy-electric-dwarf-mountain-alphabet?ref=live

    On the flip side, I also backed http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/chriscrockeralbum/chris-crockers-first-album Chris Crockers first album and he pretty much said he didn't get all the money and the album won't ship. So he pretty much took everyone's money and is not giving them what his KS funded for. Which is sad.

    Also, someone wrote to him: 

     

    "Christian van Laar on March 13

    I dont understand why these fake donations have to be published here on this way. 
    For example, I did made a succesful donation of 5 dollars and never received the promised twitter reply. 
    Don't misunderstand me, it's not about that reply .... I am still happy that I could support you with a little amount, but it's the principle when you complain about fake donations, I complain about not keeping promises. It cuts both ways ;) Wish you good luck for the future !!"

    Now I only pledged $10 to him and didn't select anything because frankly I'm a fan I didn't want anything he had to offer, I was just happy to help out, but he isn't fullfilling the promises he made on Kickstarter to the other people that actually wanted something. Even something as small as a thank you on Twitter.

     

    I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!

  • taus01taus01 MunichPosts: 1,352Member

    You are too early my friend. The inevitable fallout and major crisis for Kickstarter has yet to come when all those long term, high funding games are about to "expire". Most of that will happen between end of 2013 and 2014, some as late as 2015.

    Right now we are still in happy funding land and not a cloud on the horizon.

    The Ouya might actually be the one Project that is going to start the fallout as i still believe strongly its dead on arrival. Not that it will not ship or play some shitty games, just that people realize that it's completely underpowered and useless for anything but playing angry birds and solitair. (flame away)

    PS: Giana Sisters is an amazing jump and run and easily a AAA quality game in it's genre.I am a proud backer and got my game extremely fast.

     

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

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  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    I only have backed 2 things that looked interesting so far to me, SotA and CU. So I won't know how that turns out for awhile. Not really a fan of card games so didnt back pathfinder. Really havent seen anything that grabbed me other than those two. Only time will tell.
  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILPosts: 2,656Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by severius
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    look at when kickstarter opened up.. then think about how long an average game takes to make

    But wouldn't that time get cut down seeing that a lot of those investor set deadlines would not be hindering nor pressuring the development team?

    Rarely have I heard of a publisher delaying a complete and ready to ship product.  Hell most developers are under such a tight deadline (partly of their own doing no doubt) that their games get huge day one patches.  Furthermore in what world does pressure and crunch time make someone work with less expedience, outside of a union?

    Yeah I stand corrected on that point. I should have clarified myself a little better. I was thinking more in terms of waiting for funding, various departments that may slow down progress and a lot of the corporate shenanigans associated with big company game projects. But now that I think about it all of those things may result in a project keeping on it's deadlines.

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  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member
    Originally posted by Ramonski7

    And that's my point. People here will be expecting AAA games to comedown the piplines. Especially when some of these KS projects cross the 1 million dollar threshold. Like:

    • Double Fine Adventure
    • Wasteland 2
    • Shadowrun Returns
    • Planetary Annihilation
    • Project Eternity
    • Torment: Tides of Numenera
    And many others.

    But, many AAA games are poor quality to some people.  I personally don't think many Activision franchises like CoD for example improves much each year.  Same goes for EA franchises like Madden.  On the other hand I can spend hundreds of hours on some indie games.  I fully expect all 7 of those projects you mention to be better (for me) than most AAA games on the market.  I just don't expect them to feature things that usually go on a AAA budget like top of the line graphics and complete full fledged voice acting.

    I personally think the average Kickstarter backer doesn't expect anything beyond delivery of a product and what's promised in the Kickstarter.  They probably shouldn't expect that either, as many Kickstarter projects fall through.

    Also there have been many instances where Kickstarter projects were successfully funded and did not deliver, often on the manufacturing end, so not so much with games.  Someone here mentioned you are protected, but you aren't.  There is nothing you can do if a project you back fails to get funded short of filing a class action lawsuit that probably won't wind up working anyway as Kickstarter clearly states that it simply provides a means of funding and not an obligation to backers.

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  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,763Member Uncommon

    SolForge is moving right along with a Steam release this weekend (previously I had to borrow an iPad from someone to play). It's a fantastic game making good progress, and quite fun.

    Defense Grid 2 reached their "make DG1:Containment" tier, and that has released and was fun.

    Castle Story is the only one which has only given me a playable prototype and is furthest from a true game release, but I also invested the least into it because they seemed like the developer most prone to those sorts of issues.

    So of the ones I've personally invested in, they're all on track and have delivered precisely against my expectations.  (And that's not counting my friend's successful electronica CD release which I also received.)

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,481Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    look at when kickstarter opened up.. then think about how long an average game takes to make

    But wouldn't that time get cut down seeing that a lot of those investor set deadlines would not be hindering nor pressuring the development team?

     What?

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ramonski7

    And that's my point. People here will be expecting AAA games to comedown the piplines. Especially when some of these KS projects cross the 1 million dollar threshold. Like:

    • Double Fine Adventure
    • Wasteland 2
    • Shadowrun Returns
    • Planetary Annihilation
    • Project Eternity
    • Torment: Tides of Numenera
    And many others.

    To be fair, anyone expecting AAA quality games on a 1 million $ budget (or less) needs a giant wakeup call, and probably deserves to be dissapointed.

    It's good to expect quality games; but you need to ground that in reality if you want your opinion to hold any weight whatsoever.

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fanglo

    One of my favorite musicians Joy Electric used Kickstarter to release his latest Album Dwarf Mountian Alphabet. The CD was released and all the backers have recieved what they were promised. 

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/146183208/joy-electric-dwarf-mountain-alphabet?ref=live

    On the flip side, I also backed http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/chriscrockeralbum/chris-crockers-first-album Chris Crockers first album and he pretty much said he didn't get all the money and the album won't ship. So he pretty much took everyone's money and is not giving them what his KS funded for. Which is sad.

    Also, someone wrote to him: 

     

    "Christian van Laar on March 13

    I dont understand why these fake donations have to be published here on this way. 
    For example, I did made a succesful donation of 5 dollars and never received the promised twitter reply. 
    Don't misunderstand me, it's not about that reply .... I am still happy that I could support you with a little amount, but it's the principle when you complain about fake donations, I complain about not keeping promises. It cuts both ways ;) Wish you good luck for the future !!"

    Now I only pledged $10 to him and didn't select anything because frankly I'm a fan I didn't want anything he had to offer, I was just happy to help out, but he isn't fullfilling the promises he made on Kickstarter to the other people that actually wanted something. Even something as small as a thank you on Twitter.

     

    You may have stumbled onto the KS truth. I suspect your "Favorite musician", already had an ablum written and just needed cash for production. This is what I think KS is for. An indie artist with a written album but no production cash. I do not think it is gong to pan out for taking an idea, (IE: a MMORPG) from, "idea" state to shipped boxes. I have also seem some realitive success in the tabletop miniature sector. Smallish companies that can get over the iniatial launch costs, like printing thousands of books and casitng the iniatial run. The jury is out still though because there has been voiced concern that by using crowdsourcing, you potentialy put your product in all the hands you would have sold to, through the various perks...Meh who knows.

  • jpnolejpnole Tampa, FLPosts: 1,656Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Axehilt

    SolForge is moving right along with a Steam release this weekend (previously I had to borrow an iPad from someone to play). It's a fantastic game making good progress, and quite fun.

    Defense Grid 2 reached their "make DG1:Containment" tier, and that has released and was fun.

    Castle Story is the only one which has only given me a playable prototype and is furthest from a true game release, but I also invested the least into it because they seemed like the developer most prone to those sorts of issues.

    So of the ones I've personally invested in, they're all on track and have delivered precisely against my expectations.  (And that's not counting my friend's successful electronica CD release which I also received.)

    You sure about that? I don't see it mentioned anywhere on Steam and it's not in the store for preorder. The main site says that the PC beta is live as of April 4th. Perhaps you meant the PC beta is this weekend and not the Steam release? Seems like a cool game. I enjoyed Magic 2013.

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Ramonski7

    And that's my point. People here will be expecting AAA games to comedown the piplines. Especially when some of these KS projects cross the 1 million dollar threshold. Like:

    • Double Fine Adventure
    • Wasteland 2
    • Shadowrun Returns
    • Planetary Annihilation
    • Project Eternity
    • Torment: Tides of Numenera
    And many others.

    To be fair, anyone expecting AAA quality games on a 1 million $ budget (or less) needs a giant wakeup call, and probably deserves to be dissapointed.

    It's good to expect quality games; but you need to ground that in reality if you want your opinion to hold any weight whatsoever.

    Exactly, if a AAA game cost less than a million to make, people wouldn't be spending the 30-300 million they do now.  Everything would be a AAA if this was the case.  Gotta have proper expectations, and even go in accepting that it could fail imo. 

  • AdamaiAdamai derbyPosts: 469Member
    kickstarter has not been around long enough to have even come close tofinishing an mmo... onky mmo i know that was created in a year was sto and thats so incrediblt shit irs barely wirth mentioning
  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,763Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jpnole
    Originally posted by Axehilt

    SolForge is moving right along with a Steam release this weekend (previously I had to borrow an iPad from someone to play). It's a fantastic game making good progress, and quite fun.

    You sure about that? I don't see it mentioned anywhere on Steam and it's not in the store for preorder. The main site says that the PC beta is live as of April 4th. Perhaps you meant the PC beta is this weekend and not the Steam release? Seems like a cool game. I enjoyed Magic 2013.

    Sure, I guess you can say a beta release to Kickstarter backers isn't a "release".

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    Originally posted by Magnum2103
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    look at when kickstarter opened up.. then think about how long an average game takes to make

    But wouldn't that time get cut down seeing that a lot of those investor set deadlines would not be hindering nor pressuring the development team?

    No, the opposite actually.  Since developers do not have to adhere to strict deadlines and release games in "unfinished" states releasing via Kickstarter and not a publisher should increase the development time.  It becomes problematic though because a lot of developers are very poor at setting deadlines for themselves and knowing when to just release it and not get caught in feature creep / development hell.

    So because they are under less pressure, they could feasibly take longer than the traditional way games are made...that makes me feel better.

    Not alway's, think of this instead of concentrating on a few things, the more time you have the more time you can think of something new, this something new might be awesome but at the same time it might take another re-write of allot of different things to make the new work. There needs to be a certain pressure to achieve something.

    OP: Ask the same question in about 3 too 5 years from now, Kickstarter is far to young to expect already great succeses, while their are some outside of games.  I feel it's more like a new generation indie platform and not necessary a mass target platform.

  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    look at when kickstarter opened up.. then think about how long an average game takes to make.. all the big projects I have seen funded by kickstarter have only been in the last year or so..

    this

    but e.g. the repopulation is shaping up really nicely

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Benedikt
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    look at when kickstarter opened up.. then think about how long an average game takes to make.. all the big projects I have seen funded by kickstarter have only been in the last year or so..

    this

    but e.g. the repopulation is shaping up really nicely

    yea repop and star citizen are the two kickstarter projects i'm most interested in

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • IndolIndol O''Fallon, MOPosts: 189Member
    This thread is hilarious! Pretty sure the OP is sarcastic. I hope...
  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Ramonski7

    Originally posted by Magnum2103

    Originally posted by Ramonski7

    Yeah that's quite sad. And those aren't even Tomb Raider quality games... I do have FTL though. And I love it. Hardly the end-all be-all of investor/developer relationships though. But he did get 200k for a game that I don't think cost him nearly that much to make.
    Consider a few things first: 1.  Tomb Raider while it did well in sales actually did poorer than expected for Square Enix and they recently had massive layoffs on the Western division that makes those games.  Lots of articles about this whole debacle, but here is one:  http://www.develop-online.net/news/43647/Rising-dev-costs-concern-as-36m-Tomb-Raider-sales-are-not-enough 2.  Tomb Raider cost millions (possibly close to the 100 million range) to develop where the most successful Kickstarters only receive a few million at most. 3.  Kickstarter is still in it's infancy and game development takes a long time.  Most game projects from the announcement of their Kickstarter take over two years to complete. 4.  Companies who use Kickstarter typically don't have the massive staff required to produce games quickly and they tend to spend more time on development as a whole. 5.  Tomb Raider costs $50, while successful Kickstarter games are usually priced below $20. 6.  Comparing the best indie games to AAA games is a bit absurd to begin with.
    And that's my point. People here will be expecting AAA games to comedown the piplines. Especially when some of these KS projects cross the 1 million dollar threshold. Like:
    • Double Fine Adventure Wasteland 2 Shadowrun Returns Planetary Annihilation Project Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
    And many others.

    I backed Tides of Numenera this weekend with triple digits and the way i look at it is: At the very least it would be AAA by standards of 15+ years ago.

    I Don't expect crazy features like we see in "modern" games but i think the technology and tools has evolved enough to make a really top end 2d game speedy and cost effective...


    Most other projects i'm very sceptical tho, I dont like the "Idea to Production" philosophy of some of the projects. I think Pre production and producer investment is a must for project believability.

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  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon

    Honestly, I don't know of a single one, but a lot aren't mmo's either so I wouldn't fund them.

    I threw money at Camelot Unchained because 1 - , it's MJ, 2 -  it's an mmo, 3 - It's a Tri-Realm mmo with no pve quest/equipment grind, 4 - I miss Pre-ToA DAOC, 5 - Player housing with merchants instead of an auction house.

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  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,676Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Magnum2103
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    look at when kickstarter opened up.. then think about how long an average game takes to make

    But wouldn't that time get cut down seeing that a lot of those investor set deadlines would not be hindering nor pressuring the development team?

    No, the opposite actually.  Since developers do not have to adhere to strict deadlines and release games in "unfinished" states releasing via Kickstarter and not a publisher should increase the development time.  It becomes problematic though because a lot of developers are very poor at setting deadlines for themselves and knowing when to just release it and not get caught in feature creep / development hell.

    Not to try to disuade any of the major publisher hate around here, but those deadlines are there for a reason. Lining up with marketing strategy, sticking within budget, keeping development on track, etc. Yes, there are times when a publisher sets a date that the developers have to rush to meet, but extending development time shouldn't be viewed as always (or even often) being a good thing. 

    In the case of indies, there's the high likelihood that the development was extended because they reached a hurdle they were not prepared for, did not expect, or couldn't handle. In some of those cases, a publisher could have foresaw, removed or prevented those blockers.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Magnum2103
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    look at when kickstarter opened up.. then think about how long an average game takes to make

    But wouldn't that time get cut down seeing that a lot of those investor set deadlines would not be hindering nor pressuring the development team?

    No, the opposite actually.  Since developers do not have to adhere to strict deadlines and release games in "unfinished" states releasing via Kickstarter and not a publisher should increase the development time.  It becomes problematic though because a lot of developers are very poor at setting deadlines for themselves and knowing when to just release it and not get caught in feature creep / development hell.

    Not to try to disuade any of the major publisher hate around here, but those deadlines are there for a reason. Lining up with marketing strategy, sticking within budget, keeping development on track, etc. Yes, there are times when a publisher sets a date that the developers have to rush to meet, but extending development time shouldn't be viewed as always (or even often) being a good thing. 

    In the case of indies, there's the high likelihood that the development was extended because they reached a hurdle they were not prepared for, did not expect, or couldn't handle. In some of those cases, a publisher could have foresaw, removed or prevented those blockers.

     

    That's applicable only to a wise publisher, to every other kind of publisher imposing dates on teams is usually a case of "we want it then because we think it will sell better!" completely disregarding the Q&A side of things severely.

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  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,558Member Uncommon
    Kickstarters need to produce a game that competes in popularity with WoW (I did not say WoW clone) before the world  takes kickstarters seriously.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    Soon Shroud of the Avatar and Grim Dawn.
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  • WaterlilyWaterlily parisPosts: 2,973Member Uncommon

    Kickstarter is a really horrible system.

    When you give someone a loan, you expect them to give you back the money with interest, that's what a bank requires from a company when they give them money.

    You are a bank when you're a kickstarter backer, you provide cash. But the difference with kickstarter is that you don't get any guarantees, you get no interest on your investment, you have no legal ground to stand on, you are powerless as a backer.

    Kickstarter is a scam the way I see it, you get not protection as a backer.

     

    And with this you also have the reason why kickstarter is so popular, even amongst big developers, they basically get money without any obligations or risks attached. For them it's the same as getting a loan from a bank, but one where the backer isn't protected, which means they can not be held accountable.

  • Storman1977Storman1977 Columbus, OHPosts: 207Member

    There is one thing I think a lot of us are overlooking. For many of the projects here, especially the really in ambitious ones, Kickstarter is not meant to be a sole source of funding. In many cases, the crowdfunding that they get from KS is used to prove to a larger developer/publisher that there is a genuine interest in the project. Enough so that future players are willing to foot some of the start up capitol to get the games development moving.

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