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Update 9 Combat

gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSPosts: 320Member
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Comments

  • SorninSornin Richmond, BCPosts: 1,133Member

    Main highlights:

    - No global cooldown (GCD)!

    - Hybrid targeting system, tab + something else (he mentions reticle early on, but not explicitly later)

    - If they put archers in, archers will likely need to use some sort of manual targeting system like a reticle

    image

  • OgreRaperOgreRaper Detroit, MIPosts: 376Member

    Interesting. Totally agreed on the fluidity of combat. If they can match WoW in that regard, I'll be happy.

    And he mentioned the possibility of archers having to actually aim, rather than tab target. I personally love that idea.

  • SpeelySpeely Seattle, WAPosts: 861Member
    Token "i am out right now and KS crashes my phone" request for text transcript. Pwetty pweese! :)
  • SorninSornin Richmond, BCPosts: 1,133Member
    Originally posted by PerfArt
    Token "i am out right now and KS crashes my phone" request for text transcript. Pwetty pweese! :)

    The video is over 8 minutes long! And that is just part 1 of 2, second tomorrow!

    image

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,498Member Uncommon
    It sounds like he wants something similar to GW2 in style of combat when it comes to tab targeting.
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,518Member Uncommon

    No global cooldown.

    No overpowered archers (hopefully no archers).

    Good so far.

  • SpeelySpeely Seattle, WAPosts: 861Member
    Ahh thanks Sornin... didn't realize it was mostly video. Will check it out at home :)
  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon

    Extremely interesting on the Archer class.  My guess that is that the interest in it will force them to make one but I agree that when an Archer class is left to simply tab target enemies who have little to no chance to reach them (ei. walls or engaged elsewhere) Archers can become quite OP. That is the fear currently in Swtor actually with the new expansion coming up. Sniper/Gunslingers have rediculous power when left alone at range or is often enough to swing combat in their favor simply by engaging at range first with nothing more than tabbing and starting their rotations. Although fun it isn't reflective of skill if say they were forced to use a reticle and therefore could miss even at range.

     

    My hope is that they can preserve the old school feel by having no class restictions and a combat system that adds fairness to all classes. I personally would like to see friendly fire. That alone forces ranged players to think about what they do prior to just doing it.

     

    I also love separate systems for differing combat styles. Magic should have it's own system, melee their own or more than one, archery (if a class focus or a tool of a class) and even stealth. I have a feeling if they add stealth it won't be full time which I actually prefer anyway. Archery simply needs greater chance of miss at range. Tab takes that away entirely. Asheron's call did it pretty well with a tab lock having nothing to do with an arrow hitting you as you could still dodge it. That is all CU has to do really. Allow the enemy who is aware of the attack the ability to dodge it as they close range. This allows a defense against the traditional uber alpha strike of the archer classes which is largely OP simply because in so many games there was little to no defense against it.

    You stay sassy!

  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSPosts: 320Member
    Originally posted by OgreRaper
    And he mentioned the possibility of archers having to actually aim, rather than tab target. I personally love that idea.

    Wow making archers aim, what a novel concept:P

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 467Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gylnne
    Originally posted by OgreRaper
    And he mentioned the possibility of archers having to actually aim, rather than tab target. I personally love that idea.

    Wow making archers aim, what a novel concept:P

    With great power comes great responsibility. 

    Bye. :)

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • DaizeddDaizedd Salon de ProvencePosts: 142Member
    Originally posted by Tamanous

    . I personally would like to see friendly fire. That alone forces ranged players to think about what they do prior to just doing it.

    That will never ever happen in an MMO. Way too open to griefing and collusion.

    image
  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gylnne
    Originally posted by OgreRaper
    And he mentioned the possibility of archers having to actually aim, rather than tab target. I personally love that idea.

    Wow making archers aim, what a novel concept:P

    I think the point missed my many is that the ability to dodge it should also be there.

    You stay sassy!

  • OgreRaperOgreRaper Detroit, MIPosts: 376Member
    Originally posted by Tamanous
    Originally posted by gylnne
    Originally posted by OgreRaper
    And he mentioned the possibility of archers having to actually aim, rather than tab target. I personally love that idea.

    Wow making archers aim, what a novel concept:P

    I think the point missed my many is that the ability to dodge it should also be there.

     

    Definitely. I think all projectiles should be dodgeable.

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Daizedd
    Originally posted by Tamanous

    . I personally would like to see friendly fire. That alone forces ranged players to think about what they do prior to just doing it.

    That will never ever happen in an MMO. Way too open to griefing and collusion.

    It already exists in some. The first failure in inovation is saying it can't be done.

    You stay sassy!

  • AnideinAnidein Bangor, MEPosts: 14Member
    It's going to be interesting watching all of the pieces of the game fitting together.
  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Somebody explain to me what the difference is between an archer tab-target firing and a caster tab-target firing. I'm not getting why one class would need to use a reticle and the other wouldn't. Just don't make archer damage so powerful that they 1 or 2 shot people like in early DAOC. Then you can have archers play like other classes instead of trying to making them so cumbersome to play that nobody will want to. Reticle targetting in a mass RvR game is retarded. Every class needs to be able to target lock. This update just seems like pandering to people who drool over games like TERA.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    I wonder if casters will have to aim as well. In Darkfall magic was a projectile and it made for some fun gameplay.

  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member
    Also, if the issue is literally using the tab button to target, why not simply remove that functionality?  No need for pure reticle targeting (although it does make sense at range).  Simply make people click on their targets rather than scroll through some 'next target' macro.
  • usuckmmorpgcomusuckmmorpgcom c, KYPosts: 1,348Member

    We'll talk when you have something that even remotely resembles an execution plan. Until then, my money stays in MY wallet.

     

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member

    "fluid like GW2?" i take it he never played the game then, the game has the most clunky combat iv ever experienced, i refuse to play melee in that game because of all the pausing and rubber banding with stuff like charge etc.

    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • SxadanaSxadana BilzenPosts: 39Member
    I find most of these videos pretty intressting, but i wonder how much of these words and info that we get now , wil stil be correct once the game is launched
  • TasarakTasarak redmond, WAPosts: 43Member Uncommon

    Love what I'm hearing for combat MJ.    A few thing's I'd like to add:

    1) I also want to see visual cue's for any stuns/mezs/roots/snares/mind control/slow/speed/poisons/diseases/magic/curses ... I don't want to be looking at a combat log. (very little) Everything should be clear on screen.

    2)   It's not just the combat they choose, it's the way character moves, performs an action/spell & the feeling or responsiveness you get back as a player.

    Combat & art direction go hand in hand. It is important that is also relates to the environment or world that it is designed for. Sound also effects a players overall experience when in combat.

    3)  Animations - Must be fluid, responsive & provide feedback to the user as it relates to the actions being performed on screen. I should be able to tell what is going on screen by the spell or swing of a weapon, not looking down at combat log to see what hit me.

     

    To me, these are all important to consider when choosing the right combat system.

  • StilerStiler Athens, TNPosts: 599Member

    This update has me so excited.

    I really hope archers can nock their arrows and take aima nd fire freely (wherever you point) accounting for arrow drop/distance and such. To me that is just so much more "fun" then the usual targetting style of mmo's when it comes to archers usually.

    Also if archers have to aim in such a way, then the arrows they fire can be deadly/high dmg (because of hte nature, sinne you can't simply target/then fire at that target) it means it will naturally be harder to hit someone at a longer distance , as well if they are moving.

    So those times when you do get lucky, and hit soemone in the head while at a distnace and moving, it will be even that much more amazing if it works that way or similar style. 

     

    That's what I love about playing an archer in Mount and Blade, when you have that knight charging at you full steam , knowing that you HAVE to make that one shot count and place the arrow in a vital area to dehorse/kill him otherwise you are dead, that's very exciting from a gameplay standpoint.

    I know it might not even be like this, or archers might not make it in, but the prospect of it not relying on tab targetting for archery is exciting for now.

  • SBE1SBE1 New York, NYPosts: 335Member

    Well, I don't mind if archers use a rectile system, if other long range direct damage spells have the same issue.  The main problem with manual targeting is lag.  Works okay for small instances like FPS games, but if you start with a large # of players, lag issues would almost require tab targeting.

    Could that be different in this game?  Maybe, but my guess is probably not.   

    I can say that not having an archer class would seem odd.

  • FishuFishu Montreal, QCPosts: 12Member
    Having a moderate range on tab-target is more than enough to fix this. Plus with LOS. No problem. Reticule is a bad idea. Unless bow are extremely powerful or the PVP is really slow.
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