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Go watch a video? read a guide?

grafhgrafh chicago, ILPosts: 310Member Uncommon

So i was recently playing Tera, and i qued up for a dungeon. Me and a few friends just hit 60 a few days ago, and were checking out the dungeons that we had access to. Once the que finished, and the auto match maker created the party, i stated that it was my first time here, and can someone explain whats going to happen or what to expect?

The tank flies off into a rage saying "Dont que up for a dungeon if you have no idea what to expect!" Now this was very upsetting to me and it made me think about where things have come from, and where they are going. I explained to the guy that i refuse to watch a video before even attempting a dungeon. it ruins everything about it for me. We went back and forth and at the end we were on good terms.

To me its a sad when the mmo community no longer wants to attempt to learn things on their own. They all instantly start looking for videos for people who have done the fight before. What about seeing a boss do a move for the first time and being in AWE. How about getting 1 shotted and learning to never do that again. These things are part of the experience to me. Being told to read a guide first or watch a video before even going into a dungeon is lame imo. Its not just mmo's, but people (im not sure if i can still call them gamers) read guides before even getting their feet wet in almost everything now. League of Legends, Console Games, etc.

Has anyone else had an exerience similar to mine, or feels the same way i do? Or do you think watching videos and reading guides before you even take a stab at it is ok?

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Comments

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member
    I hate harcore rage freaks like that. Alas, they are in just about every MMO. Just have to deal with it.
  • grafhgrafh chicago, ILPosts: 310Member Uncommon
    I dont know when this started, but I feel the mmo community in general has almost vanished. Its rather depressing. People do dungeons and dont talk. People dont help each other anymore. Its really sad :(
  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    The problem is, its old content. Just like spoilers with tv, there is a certain point when they just no longer apply, simialr can be said of any content. If you are new to it, when is it ok for you to unduly inconvience them just because you do not want to spoil it for yourself. This is the sort of situation when you should not have queued up, and instead formed your own group so every knew ahead of time what they were walking into.
  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,609Member Uncommon

    If this happened in Tera why are you posting this rant in the WoW forums?


    Or maybe MMORPG.com needs a "Good Ol' Days" forum so people can endlessly complain about how MMOs arent as good as they used to be.

  • KuviskiKuviski KajaaniPosts: 214Member

    Closely related to the subject, I too have noticed in the past years that the focus has moved from people and guilds having their own strats and tactics, unique ways of doing things to there only being "one right way" of dealing with each encounter. And you must know all about the encounters before you even try them, which is quite ridiculous when you think about it.

    In WoW this is especially true, and while I don't play it anymore, I'd imagine the new Dungeon Journal hasn't really helped the situation either (the journal, as far as I know, goes through the tactics of each boss fight in-game, so that external strategy reading or making up your own strategy is no longer required).

    Buzzkill once had a nice blog post about this mentality of there only being one right way of doing things on an enounter, and I decided to dig it up. See the part under "Spoils and emulation": http://manaflask.com/en/article/1142/raiding-philosophy-raider-evolution-the-conclusion

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by grafh
    I dont know when this started, but I feel the mmo community in general has almost vanished. Its rather depressing. People do dungeons and dont talk. People dont help each other anymore. Its really sad :(


    it's a certain group of gamers in every game.
    It's not a genre thingy.

    Some people just take things a bit too serious.
    Downside is that the developers cater to those players and give those groups 'kick' options to vote ppl out.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • fascismfascism marquette, MIPosts: 358Member Uncommon
     personally i would never go into a new dungeon with out at least knowing the fights or scimming through a guide but I wouldnt give a shit if some one else does or not
  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by fascism
     personally i would never go into a new dungeon with out at least knowing the fights or scimming through a guide but I wouldnt give a shit if some one else does or not


    depends, if it is a casual pug leveling dungeon, I wouldnt mind whipes....if it were dungeons done by experienced ppl, I would, but I still wouldn't rage or go emo about it...it's just a game.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • DalekThayDalekThay Bangor, MIPosts: 52Member
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    The problem is, its old content. Just like spoilers with tv, there is a certain point when they just no longer apply, simialr can be said of any content. If you are new to it, when is it ok for you to unduly inconvience them just because you do not want to spoil it for yourself. This is the sort of situation when you should not have queued up, and instead formed your own group so every knew ahead of time what they were walking into.

    I know, taking 5 minutes of your precious time is just such a HUGE inconvenience right? Next time when you have a question at your job / school, I sincerely hope you don't inconvenience your fellow workers / classmates by asking questions when you don't understand something.

    Your attitude is exactly why most MMOs have absolutely sh*t communities. Here's an idea... if you don't want to deal with new people, why don't YOU form your own group outside the dungeon finder? After all, it's the only way to guarantee that you won't end up playing with the rest of us mere mortals!

     

  • NBlitzNBlitz ZwollePosts: 1,904Member

    It sucks it happened to you. My current incarnation in TERA is that of a lancer, almost 60 too. If I do go for a new instance, as the tank, I try to be prepared by knowing a bit about the instance before going in. I don't expect the rest of the party to (it is what it is).

    So once inside, first thing I ask is if there are any first timers. Last time I had someone else who had been there before give tips and such at crucial moments.

    All it takes is one ass-hat to ruin the mood of the party and sour what should have been an hour of fun dungeon crawling.

    At least you got it sorted out in the end.

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    If this happened in Tera why are you posting this rant in the WoW forums?

    It happens in WoW too.  Probably more in its heyday.  But yeah, I hate this kind of crap and it's the reason I ever look up dungeon vids, just to try and make someone else's lives easier. 

    KNOW THE FIGHTS!  BE GEARED!  EAT ALL THE PASTE!  RAWR!

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member

    i agree with you OP and sady this is what you have to expect in alot of MMOs these days, this is why honestly i rarle run large raids unless it with people i already know in advance caus i play games to have fun not deal with idiots.

    umm not to be a ass or anythign but why is this thread in the WoW section?

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,609Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by Xiaoki If this happened in Tera why are you posting this rant in the WoW forums?
    It happens in WoW too.  Probably more in its heyday.  But yeah, I hate this kind of crap and it's the reason I ever look up dungeon vids, just to try and make someone else's lives easier. 

    KNOW THE FIGHTS!  BE GEARED!  EAT ALL THE PASTE!  RAWR!



    As someone already said, it happens in every game.


    You can find this crap in Tera, WoW, GW2, Rift, all MMOs.


    Just to varying degrees in each one. Pretty bad in GW2 right now, so why not post this in the GW2 forums instead.


    The only time people make a big deal about not knowing fights in casual content in WoW is when your ignorance can wipe the group/raid. ie Garalon in Heart of Fear LFR.

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by Xiaok

    As someone already said, it happens in every game.

     


    You can find this crap in Tera, WoW, GW2, Rift, all MMOs.


    Just to varying degrees in each one. Pretty bad in GW2 right now, so why not post this in the GW2 forums instead.


    The only time people make a big deal about not knowing fights in casual content in WoW is when your ignorance can wipe the group/raid. ie Garalon in Heart of Fear LFR.

    I agree for the most part, but in GW2?  Really?  I've been doing dungeons for months and no one's ever gotten in a tizzy over anything relating to the fights.  The only thing I've seen is that some people want you to be wearing a certain armor type for "speed runs", which is stupid and really turns me off from running dungeons as much.  Otherwise, I've gone into high level dungeons with complete noobs and we found our way through by communicating.  It's a lot different than in say, WoW, where one bad move by the tank or healer can mean certain doom.  I would disagree that it's "pretty bad" or ever will be.

  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by Xiaok

    As someone already said, it happens in every game.

     


    You can find this crap in Tera, WoW, GW2, Rift, all MMOs.


    Just to varying degrees in each one. Pretty bad in GW2 right now, so why not post this in the GW2 forums instead.


    The only time people make a big deal about not knowing fights in casual content in WoW is when your ignorance can wipe the group/raid. ie Garalon in Heart of Fear LFR.

    I agree for the most part, but in GW2?  Really?  I've been doing dungeons for months and no one's ever gotten in a tizzy over anything relating to the fights.  The only thing I've seen is that some people want you to be wearing a certain armor type for "speed runs", which is stupid and really turns me off from running dungeons as much.  Otherwise, I've gone into high level dungeons with complete noobs and we found our way through by communicating.  It's a lot different than in say, WoW, where one bad move by the tank or healer can mean certain doom.  I would disagree that it's "pretty bad" or ever will be.

    it maybe used to be like that. 2 or 3 years ago.  now the only challening content in WoW is raiding.   (and no people,  LFR does not equal raiding)

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • Beerman27Beerman27 perthPosts: 23Member
    I like to wait for some buddies to do a dungeon with me cause i hate feeling like the noob.
  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,609Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by Xiaok
    As someone already said, it happens in every game.   You can find this crap in Tera, WoW, GW2, Rift, all MMOs. Just to varying degrees in each one. Pretty bad in GW2 right now, so why not post this in the GW2 forums instead. The only time people make a big deal about not knowing fights in casual content in WoW is when your ignorance can wipe the group/raid. ie Garalon in Heart of Fear LFR.
    I agree for the most part, but in GW2?  Really?  I've been doing dungeons for months and no one's ever gotten in a tizzy over anything relating to the fights.  The only thing I've seen is that some people want you to be wearing a certain armor type for "speed runs", which is stupid and really turns me off from running dungeons as much.  Otherwise, I've gone into high level dungeons with complete noobs and we found our way through by communicating.  It's a lot different than in say, WoW, where one bad move by the tank or healer can mean certain doom.  I would disagree that it's "pretty bad" or ever will be.

    Go to gw2lfg.com


    Theres your GW2 community.


    Reading the requirements people demand there makes me sick and definitely FAR worse than anything I experienced in WoW.

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,858Member Uncommon

    I'm not going to sugar coat this so you should know that this is the way things are now.  It shouldn't be a surprise.  It's more of a surprise if this doesn't happen.

    Content has become so simple and stale that the only fun left for many people, including myself, is to clear it as efficiently and quickly as possible.

    I'd gladly trade coasting through crap content while watching TV for high failure rate and difficult content

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by Eir_S

    Originally posted by Xiaok


    As someone already said, it happens in every game.   You can find this crap in Tera, WoW, GW2, Rift, all MMOs. Just to varying degrees in each one. Pretty bad in GW2 right now, so why not post this in the GW2 forums instead. The only time people make a big deal about not knowing fights in casual content in WoW is when your ignorance can wipe the group/raid. ie Garalon in Heart of Fear LFR.
    I agree for the most part, but in GW2?  Really?  I've been doing dungeons for months and no one's ever gotten in a tizzy over anything relating to the fights.  The only thing I've seen is that some people want you to be wearing a certain armor type for "speed runs", which is stupid and really turns me off from running dungeons as much.  Otherwise, I've gone into high level dungeons with complete noobs and we found our way through by communicating.  It's a lot different than in say, WoW, where one bad move by the tank or healer can mean certain doom.  I would disagree that it's "pretty bad" or ever will be.
    Go to gw2lfg.com

     


    Theres your GW2 community.


    Reading the requirements people demand there makes me sick and definitely FAR worse than anything I experienced in WoW.

    That's not the community, and people demanded far more of you in WoW, since the bosses followed more rigid mechanics.  GW2's in-game community is still better than WoW's by far, at least outside of guilds.

    Besides, I've been to that site already.  Most of these just want fractal dailies or to run CoF for the $$$.  You can find groups in-game as well.  I just find it weird how people complain there's no community left in MMO's but then complain if there's no easy LFG system (not referring to you here, just rambling).  I go to Lion's Arch and see people looking for groups like I haven't seen since WoW: BC.  I don't know, it's kind of nice, but the only groups formed in GW2 are not formed on Gw2lfg.

    And let's be honest here, ONE MMORPG conditioned this kind of general behavior for the majority of people who now play themeparks, and it didn't start with a G.

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,229Member Uncommon

    Like others have said, it's in all MMO's.

    But you should specifically stay away from EVE and TSW if that bothers you. In EVE, not only do people want you to know things, the amount they want you to know and is available to read about is vast. And sadly, reading it is more entertaining than playing the game. So there's that.

    TSW should be renamed The Google World, if your quest isn't a simple " go here, kill stuff quest" or fedex, then it's a "press B" quest. You do have the option to join the spoiler chat channel, but if you're going to do that, you may as well just google it anyway.

  • LatronusLatronus Lexington Park, MDPosts: 692Member
    Originally posted by grafh
    I dont know when this started, but I feel the mmo community in general has almost vanished. Its rather depressing. People do dungeons and dont talk. People dont help each other anymore. Its really sad :(

    I think it started around the launch of EQ2 and WoW.  Those two games were suposed to be for the more casual player which I was not at the time, but I have become due to life.  Don't get me wrong, I hate the way games have gone in the last 8 years or so even though I don't raid anymore, running a dungeon without speaking in group defeats the entire purpose of playing an MMO.  Just my 2 cents though, apparently more people like playing games that way because that's how most newer games are being released.

    image
  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,609Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by Xiaoki   Originally posted by Eir_S Originally posted by Xiaok
    As someone already said, it happens in every game.   You can find this crap in Tera, WoW, GW2, Rift, all MMOs. Just to varying degrees in each one. Pretty bad in GW2 right now, so why not post this in the GW2 forums instead. The only time people make a big deal about not knowing fights in casual content in WoW is when your ignorance can wipe the group/raid. ie Garalon in Heart of Fear LFR.
    I agree for the most part, but in GW2?  Really?  I've been doing dungeons for months and no one's ever gotten in a tizzy over anything relating to the fights.  The only thing I've seen is that some people want you to be wearing a certain armor type for "speed runs", which is stupid and really turns me off from running dungeons as much.  Otherwise, I've gone into high level dungeons with complete noobs and we found our way through by communicating.  It's a lot different than in say, WoW, where one bad move by the tank or healer can mean certain doom.  I would disagree that it's "pretty bad" or ever will be.
    Go to gw2lfg.com   Theres your GW2 community. Reading the requirements people demand there makes me sick and definitely FAR worse than anything I experienced in WoW.
    That's not the community, and people demanded far more of you in WoW, since the bosses followed more rigid mechanics.  GW2's in-game community is still better than WoW's by far, at least outside of guilds.

    Besides, I've been to that site already.  Most of these just want fractal dailies or to run CoF for the $$$.  You can find groups in-game as well.  I just find it weird how people complain there's no community left in MMO's but then complain if there's no easy LFG system (not referring to you here, just rambling).  I go to Lion's Arch and see people looking for groups like I haven't seen since WoW: BC.  I don't know, it's kind of nice, but the only groups formed in GW2 are not formed on Gw2lfg.

    And let's be honest here, ONE MMORPG conditioned this kind of general behavior for the majority of people who now play themeparks, and it didn't start with a G.



    I can sit in Lion's Arch for 10 minutes and not see a single LFG spam. I actually try and get groups through LA spam first because of how much I hate gw2lfg.

    Unfortunately, its quite hard to get groups for what you want to run through LA spam because most people are using gw2lfg.

    So, yes, gw2lfg is the GW2 community and they demand far more from players than WoW ever did. Everytime I see "Zerk War only", "Zerk Mez only", "30AR+ only", Experienced only", "Full Exotic or better only", "Ping gear plz", "No Thief, Ranger or Necro" makes me want to play GW2 less and less.

    PS I have seen most of the above in a single gw2lfg listing before. Talk about elitist.


    Also, yes, one MMO did condition this type of behavior in players. The name of which started with an "E" followed by a "Q".

  • grafhgrafh chicago, ILPosts: 310Member Uncommon

    Actually i thought i had posted this in the general discussion, not WoW's general discussion. Sorry about that. I'm from vanilla WoW and there was no youtube videos of strats back then. There were multiple ways of doing things, and it took alot of deaths and high repair costs before we beat molten core or onxyia.

    But it really isnt that hard to explain the strats before a boss. If you use an auto part functions, then you should expect to have to explain a few things to first timers. If the gear they have is to low to do something, tell them. Dont just kick them. If they die in a fight and cause a wipe, dont yell at them. Ask them if they understood what went wrong and how they died. If it happens again, then explain that they need to learn thier char a little more, or adapt to fights better. If they suck, then they suck. You dont have to put up with it. But dont yell go watch a video just because its the first time they are there. This is happening in all mmo's now.  New players join, and the older community doesnt want to help them. so they get bbored and quit. Then older community starts complaining that there are no new players.... REALLY?

     

    THIS IS NOT GAMING! at least for me.

    Person A: Oh boy! i just hit max lvl and im going to try this hard mode dungeon. Let me watch a video and see how its done.

    Person B: Just bought this game. Some teaser vids i saw make it look pretty awesome. Let me go read a guide on how to play warrior.

     

     

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki


    Also, yes, one MMO did condition this type of behavior in players. The name of which started with an "E" followed by a "Q".

    Wrong, I said the majority of people who now play themeparks, EQ didn't bring half as many people to the genre as WoW did.  In that respect, WoW started all this.

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    Unfortunately, its quite hard to get groups for what you want to run through LA spam because most people are using gw2lfg.

    So, yes, gw2lfg is the GW2 community and they demand far more from players than WoW ever did. Everytime I see "Zerk War only", "Zerk Mez only", "30AR+ only", Experienced only", "Full Exotic or better only", "Ping gear plz", "No Thief, Ranger or Necro" makes me want to play GW2 less and less.

    Your statements are simply perpetually ignorant, I can't really argue with someone who actually believes what you wrote in red; you then go on to list the same things WoW has done for nearly a decade.

    "MM hunter only", "Have vent", "Know the fights", "Gear check", "Full epics", "No DK's" "X loot reserved for our guild".  All from WoW.  Your assertion that GW2 "demands more" than WoW ever did (let's say 2009) is completely laughable.

    You're actually trying to convince someone who played WoW of this stuff, that's the best part.

    Don't play GW2, but don't act like it's somehow worse than what's come before it.

    PS: Here's a "just for fun" question.  Two actually.  Do you play WoW?  And if you the answer is yes, why are you more willing to put up with the in-game elitism moreso than a third party site? 

    In fact, why is anyone?  I think the answer to the surprise THIRD question is obvious.  They just prefer one game's gameplay over the other's.

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