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Lifetime subs…bad idea?

raykorraykor Seattle, WAMember Posts: 326

I’ve read other devs admitting that lifetime subs are a horrible idea for a sub-based game so why are these guys going down that road?  If this game turns out to be a successful—albeit niche—venture, then the developers will need a reliable long-term income stream.  I simply can’t understand why a game committed to an old-school sub-based business model, is offering lifetime subs.

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Comments

  • SeariasSearias Edmonton, ABMember Posts: 719 Uncommon
    Originally posted by raykor
    I’ve read other devs admitting that lifetime subs are a horrible idea for a sub-based game so why are these guys going down that road?  If this game turns out to be a successful—albeit niche—venture, then the developers will need a reliable long-term income stream.  I simply can’t understand why a game committed to an old-school sub-based business model, is offering lifetime subs.

    I think it was based on feedback from people to include a lifetime sub option to the kickstarter. I wonder if that option is only going to be a kickstarter only thing, once the game goes live people might not be able to get a lifetime subscription. Even when you look at it right now there is already a limit to the amount of people who can get a lifetime sub even with kickstarter.

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  • BowbowDAoCBowbowDAoC Granby, QCMember Posts: 470 Uncommon

    its only for kickstarters funders, once KS ends, i assume it'll never be available afterwards.

    its a nice way to thank the backers.

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    Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
    Thurka on WAR

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  • fanglofanglo Virginia, VAMember Posts: 295 Uncommon
    ya if it stays KS only shouldn't be a big deal. Especially since not even all the KS backers get it.

    I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!

  • RaagnarzRaagnarz North Las Vegas, NVMember Posts: 274 Uncommon
    Yeah only a few tiers of KS get it. If it remains contained within those tiers only then I see little harm to come from it. If the option is made available beyond that, then I would completely agree that its a bad fucking idea for a niche game.
  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Ul''dah, CAMember Posts: 1,746 Uncommon

     

    It's usually too good a deal for those who purchase it, as they either save hundreds of dollars over a few years, or the game goes free to play and the lifetime subscribers get permanent premium accounts as well as monthly stipends of cash shop currency.

    I'm still racking it in with all the games I bought lifesubs for.  xD

  • naezgulnaezgul Homer Glen, ILMember Posts: 374
    Originally posted by raykor
    I’ve read other devs admitting that lifetime subs are a horrible idea for a sub-based game so why are these guys going down that road?  If this game turns out to be a successful—albeit niche—venture, then the developers will need a reliable long-term income stream.  I simply can’t understand why a game committed to an old-school sub-based business model, is offering lifetime subs.

    BEcause they are getting large money upfront for that

  • OgrelinOgrelin JonkopingMember Posts: 636

    It's not lifetime subs.

    it's three years sub free then 1 dollar/year.

    So in fact they are promising to run the year for a minimum of 3 years.

  • CasaFrankyCasaFranky MünchenMember Posts: 541 Uncommon


    Originally posted by Ogrelin
    It's not lifetime subs.it's three years sub free then 1 dollar/year.So in fact they are promising to run the year for a minimum of 3 years.

    1$/year is not like a free forever for you?

  • meddyckmeddyck USAMember Posts: 1,190 Uncommon
    First the game needs to get made which means it needs Kickstarter donations. No donations, no game. Most people aren't going to want to donate enough to get the highest tiers so they needed some reward to make tiers from $250 to $500 an attractive option otherwise everybody willing to donate over $100 will just donate for the cheapest alpha tier he can afford (this is why $110 is the most popular tier). Hence the lifetime sub or approximation thereof to give people a reason to donate $250 or more.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • AeodoAeodo Le Plessis-RobinsonMember Posts: 61
    Most of the money will come from 25-50$ tiers, there will be a very little percentage of total players with lifetime subs.
  • Lore84Lore84 NorthamptonMember Posts: 69
    I don't see what the problem is, they will make up a very small percentage of the player base.

    Ex-DAOC, Excalibur

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIMember Posts: 2,608 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lore84
    I don't see what the problem is, they will make up a very small percentage of the player base.

    Ask the players who did a lifetime sub on TSW then to learn it went F2P after that.

    image

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  • OgrelinOgrelin JonkopingMember Posts: 636


    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Lore84 I don't see what the problem is, they will make up a very small percentage of the player base.
    Ask the players who did a lifetime sub on TSW then to learn it went F2P after that.

    Thats why they only promise free subs for 3 years, they don't want to have the same issues like TSW... that's what I think atleast...

  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Anderson, InMember Posts: 2,762 Uncommon

    Company's now adays use Life-time subs like Lawyers.

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    " Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who  Would Threaten It "
  • falconhandfalconhand ZuidbroekMember Posts: 50 Uncommon
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by raykor
    I’ve read other devs admitting that lifetime subs are a horrible idea for a sub-based game so why are these guys going down that road?  If this game turns out to be a successful—albeit niche—venture, then the developers will need a reliable long-term income stream.  I simply can’t understand why a game committed to an old-school sub-based business model, is offering lifetime subs.

    BEcause they are getting large money upfront for that

    Like he mentioned. It is a niche game. And esp at start it is lot flavor of the month kind of thing. By giving a life time sub they get at least some money in front if it is in the end not the flavor of the month succes. At the moment I see around 6000 backers that is to less for even a niche game if those are the only players who will be active. Ofcourse there will be more, but with life time subs they will get a bit more money to keep up the server etc.

    Still I myself like the life time sub option and most of the time if it is a option and I like the game I take the option. First reason is now I know what kind of income I have etc and second reason is that most the time the life time option comes with some extra gifts.

  • MikeJezZMikeJezZ DenmarkMember Posts: 1,170 Uncommon

    Well the one usd /year is also very expensive (450 USD if I remember).

     

    How many MMO's HAVEN't failed within 3 years and wen't down?

     

    i gotta admit I am a bit tempted though for 1 USd sub /year.

    Playing ATM: Black Desert, Xbox One
    MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
    KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  • SBE1SBE1 New York, NYMember Posts: 335

    I did the $250 digital copy life-time sub option.  If you have the coin, I think it's one of the best options available.  If the game is $50 and $15 a month after the first month, you'll spend $50 + (11x$15) = $215 in the first year on the game. So, for $35 more, I get a lifetime sub combined with founder points and access to Alpha testing?

    With most PvP oriented games, I tend to play them about a year, then I stop because they keep introducing gear-grinds from PvE to continue to compete in PvP.  This game says it wont do that, so I suspect I could play this game longer than a year.  Hence the life-time sub is really cheap from that perspective.

    The only way the life-time sub option isn't going to be worth it is if the game sucks donkey balls when released.  However, should it ever get improved, you can easily jump back in later.

  • AeodoAeodo Le Plessis-RobinsonMember Posts: 61
    Well it won't be 15$/month.
  • MikeJezZMikeJezZ DenmarkMember Posts: 1,170 Uncommon
    Originally posted by SBE1
    I did the $250 digital copy life-time sub option.  If you have the coin, I think it's one of the best options available.  If the game is $50 and $15 a month after the first month, you'll spend $50 + (11x$15) = $215 in the first year on the game. So, for $35 more, I get a lifetime sub combined with founder points and access to Alpha testing? With most PvP oriented games, I tend to play them about a year, then I stop because they keep introducing gear-grinds from PvE to continue to compete in PvP.  This game says it wont do that, so I suspect I could play this game longer than a year.  Hence the life-time sub is really cheap from that perspective. The only way the life-time sub option isn't going to be worth it is if the game sucks donkey balls when released.  However, should it ever get improved, you can easily jump back in later.

    250 USd gives no lifetime sub.

     

    It gives you 6 months free sub, 6% off monthly sub.

     

    USD 450 gives you 1 USD /year sub.

     

    Oh didnt see theres two 250$versions.

    Playing ATM: Black Desert, Xbox One
    MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
    KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  • JaironKalachJaironKalach Muncie, INMember Posts: 13
    Originally posted by MikeJezZ 250 USd gives no lifetime sub.   It gives you 6 months free sub, 6% off monthly sub.   USD 450 gives you 1 USD /year sub.

    You might want to double check at the kickstarter page. $250 WARRIOR FOREVER gives you the lifetime sub.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAMember Posts: 14,247 Rare
    Originally posted by raykor
    I’ve read other devs admitting that lifetime subs are a horrible idea for a sub-based game so why are these guys going down that road? 

    Lifetime sub can mean either one of two things - extreme shortsightedness on the part of the devs or an additional/different revenue model planned for futher down the road. In the case of CU, I would bank on the latter because the former is highly unlikely.

     

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  • MaricMaric SacramentoMember Posts: 89 Uncommon

    I don't think the Lifetime sub is a bad thing in the case of this Kickstarter.

    For me, the possibility of a lifetime sub on a higher Tier plus some other goodies shot my pledge up $500.00.  I suspect this will be the case for others as well.

    I suspect if CU is funded that a lifetime sub may not be offered when the game goes live, and that the percentage of players that have the lifetime sub will be relatively small.

    If I get three years out of CU I'll be happy.  I suspect if CU is a success we'll see the game either expanded or a bigger, more feature robust sequel planned.  

     

  • SBE1SBE1 New York, NYMember Posts: 335

    Searching on the word "forever" on Kickstarter, as of the time of this post, there were:

    594 Warrior Forever ($250)

    135 Hero Forever ($350)

    9 Physical Phat Loot Forever ($450)

    99 Whole Shmear (Hero Forever $500)

    So, currently there are going to be 837 people with the lifetime subs, or about 15% of the current kickstarter pledges.

  • belatucadrosbelatucadros Toronto, ONMember Posts: 263
    Digital tiers ftw

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  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHMember Posts: 2,628 Uncommon

    The minimum to get a digital copy, and a free month is $25.  The minimum for the lifetime is $250.  They haven't released anything about monthly subs, but they did sound like they would have tiers, and such, so I am thinking $8 or $10 a month maybe?  It sounded like they didn't want to do $15 if I remember correctly.

     

    At $10/mo it would take 23.5 months, including the free month (and minus $25 donation min to get game) to equal the Forever pledge, so basically if you played for 2 years only, you would come out about the same, if you play longer it is all money savings after that.  The presumed lower monthly fee brings the value of the lifetime down a little. 

     

    At $8/mo it would take until the 30th month to start seeing the positive side of the forever subscription.

     

     

    I didn't factor in all the aditional bonuses, character slots, founder apps, etc...So if that stuff actually ends up meaning a lot, it would significantly make you get into the 'positive' much faster.  You also get quicker access into the game at the higher tiers.

     

     

    The games that have gone free to play, from what I have seen, they still offer the lifetime member points/cash in the cash shop, so while I am not in that situation for any game, I imagine they are still making out on most of these games....As f2p means they try to make you want to buy stuff in the cash shop, or need to, depending on the model.

     

    So I would say it all comes down to how much faith you have in the project, if you think it will fail completely, then it is a bad idea, if you think it will launch and become f2p in 6 months (which I would have to say I doubt, they seem to want to build like Eve, even if it starts out slow) it would depend on the consideration you get in the cash shop....If they do build it like Eve, then you are going to make out in the end and be very happy you did it. 

     

    If I wasn't hesitant about the no pve (and I know why they are doing it, and I agree it makes the project more doable on their budget), I would consider it.

     

     

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