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Will the real ESO please stand-up?

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  • StMichaelStMichael Fullerton, CAPosts: 183Member
    Damn double post.
  • SentnlSentnl SydneyPosts: 73Member
    Originally posted by StMichael

    What's wrong with my assessment? Elder Scrolls has been a signature sandbox game since Morrowind. Every person who has ever loved a sandbox game has played at least one of the Elder Scrolls games and is familiar with the name. Zenimax, however, has opted not to embrace the sandbox elements the series is so well known for in favor of Dark Age of Camelot style RvR. Now, whether the bait-and-switch was intentional or not is entirely a different matter, but it's still dangling the most well recognized IP of the genre in front of fans as the MMO they've been waiting for, and then not delivering what they want. 

     

    It's a serious dick move. The IP doesn't lend itself particularly well to the goals they've set out for themselves (I mean come on, I can't even play as an Imperial, my race of choice for both Oblivion and Skyrim) and the features they are promoting were draw enough for anyone even remotely interested in them. They didn't need an established IP to sweeten the deal, they would have bought it if it were as non-descript as orcs, elves and men all want to kill each other.

    Sandbox; I dont think you know what that word means... Oblivion was pushing it, but Skyrim was definitely not a sandbox.

    In fact from what we know is confirmed of ESO right now, it has more sandbox elements than Oblivion or Skyram had... So where's your arguement now?

    I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  • AnakamiAnakami BielefeldPosts: 103Member

    I think we won't need to worry too much. It's still months until release and we haven't even heard about most of the features in detail yet. A lot can and will change still, due to feedback from various sources. While it is of course interesting to discuss things prior to release, what is happening right now is people attacking other people from different camps for their opinion and view on TESO. Which is a bit pointless unless you are terribly bored ofc ;)

    Personally I am rather interested in thinking about solutions to the most important question imo: How can they make the game in a way that most people will enjoy it.

    I am very interested to see what their mega server and preference system can do. Right now I only know that it puts you into the same world with people who have also taken the survey and checked certain playstyle preferences. It also tries to put you there with friends from your social networks or the friends list ingame.

    I am pretty sure you could use the very same mechanics to also create playgrounds for those who are more interested in the PvE and RP aspect of the game and allow cross faction communication and questing there. I think there is a high probability that an option like that will come in one way or another, at some point, because it is kinda hilarious to emphasize on the social capabilities of the game and then split up guilds and friends who wish to play a particular race and group up, but can't, because they are forced into a faction.

    I'll watch the development closely up to release and inthe end they might have created something most of us can enjoy :)

  • SentnlSentnl SydneyPosts: 73Member
    Originally posted by Anakami

    I am very interested to see what their mega server and preference system can do. Right now I only know that it puts you into the same world with people who have also taken the survey and checked certain playstyle preferences. It also tries to put you there with friends from your social networks or the friends list ingame.

    Now there's something I would like specific information about, this "mega server".

    I hope it doesn't impede on building fame/infamy across factions in cryodiil.

    I hope it doesn't end up being like gw2 where everyone is faceless and nameless...

    I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  • MibletMiblet BognerPosts: 333Member

    So far it has been implied that the megaserver survey matching will be for the PvE areas.

    Cyrodil will be handled by their campaign system (think of it as joining a regular MMO server for the PvP zone that you will be tied to until the end of the campaign, with the option to leave at will and join anotherwith a cost).

    So you should be able to garner some degree of fame or infamy.  Though be aware if there are a lot of players you will likely be part of the faceless masses unless you are one of the top pvpers in the world (such is the way of modern MMOs and their large playerbases, you are less likely to run into people as frequently).

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member
    Originally posted by Sentnl.

    I hope it doesn't impede on building fame/infamy across factions in cryodiil.

    I hope it doesn't end up being like gw2 where everyone is faceless and nameless...

    With their comments regarding faction pride, I'm inclined to believe that they also recognize the necessity of creating specific rivalries between opposing faction members and guilds. Not too worried about it turning into GW2's generic Mists experience.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Anakami

    I think we won't need to worry too much. It's still months until release and we haven't even heard about most of the features in detail yet. A lot can and will change still, due to feedback from various sources. While it is of course interesting to discuss things prior to release, what is happening right now is people attacking other people from different camps for their opinion and view on TESO. Which is a bit pointless unless you are terribly bored ofc ;)

    Personally I am rather interested in thinking about solutions to the most important question imo: How can they make the game in a way that most people will enjoy it.

    I am very interested to see what their mega server and preference system can do. Right now I only know that it puts you into the same world with people who have also taken the survey and checked certain playstyle preferences. It also tries to put you there with friends from your social networks or the friends list ingame.

    I am pretty sure you could use the very same mechanics to also create playgrounds for those who are more interested in the PvE and RP aspect of the game and allow cross faction communication and questing there. I think there is a high probability that an option like that will come in one way or another, at some point, because it is kinda hilarious to emphasize on the social capabilities of the game and then split up guilds and friends who wish to play a particular race and group up, but can't, because they are forced into a faction.

    I'll watch the development closely up to release and inthe end they might have created something most of us can enjoy :)

    Anything is possible but some things are more plausible than others.

    I have to say that it surprises me that someone who argues passionatley about mixing all the races on the basis of lore and consistency with the single player TES games we have known, can so easily wish for an incongrous playground that would be totally inconsistent with the setting of the 3-sided war in this MMO.

    That cross-faction playground would be an odd contrivance for game-play purposes only that couldn't be shoe-horned into this lore in any believable way no matter how hard they tried. Oh wait... "...and then the Daedra of Peace touched everyone with his rod and everyone jumped over the shark, took an arrow on the knee, and the war was forgotten..."  yeah, maybe image

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member

    I don't fit in either polar opposites as you have characterised them.

    I am happy to have three factional PvP and have always said I am happy with it.

    I am not happy with central TES elements being fracked to accomodate this - primarily the freedom to explore. However, if Zenimax had done a complete U-turn and removed factional PvP and Cyrodil as a PvP zone I would have declared this as going too far - by far...

    Characterising peoples opinions as #1 or #2 and taking no account of the many people one one side or other of the middle, or directly in the middle is ridiculous.

    Most people I dare say sit between these opposites - there aren't two large camps here - there are two vocal camps and a load of people between them.

    You need a #3 with a wide definition...

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    It would not be inconsistent for people in one faction to temporarily team up with other faction members. Why? Because individuals are not robots or fanatics, atleast not most, so it is conceivable that they would use a temporary truce to their advantage.

    Also chatting would not exist? So enemies never speak to each other? Bull. Again, most people are not robots or fanatics. Just because they are in a faction does not stop them from behaving like individuals.

    More over, factions existed in Elder Scrolls series so they can exist with your model #2. They just would not be so strict and hardcoded into everything you can do.

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member
    Originally posted by Yamota

    Also chatting would not exist? So enemies never speak to each other? Bull. Again, most people are not robots or fanatics. Just because they are in a faction does not stop them from behaving like individuals.

    I think in this instance chatting is limited to prevent hate tells and players trolling the other faction. We've all played FFA PvP with open chat and have experienced the shit talking that goes with it. Rarely is it fun.

    So it's more just a mechanic to prevent griefing, and not at all related to the lore or 'realism'.

  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,572Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rygard49
    Originally posted by Yamota

    Also chatting would not exist? So enemies never speak to each other? Bull. Again, most people are not robots or fanatics. Just because they are in a faction does not stop them from behaving like individuals.

    I think in this instance chatting is limited to prevent hate tells and players trolling the other faction. We've all played FFA PvP with open chat and have experienced the shit talking that goes with it. Rarely is it fun.

    So it's more just a mechanic to prevent griefing, and not at all related to the lore or 'realism'.

    Just had an image of Montgomery trolling Rommel during WW2. :)

    image
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by immodium
    Originally posted by rygard49
    Originally posted by Yamota

    Also chatting would not exist? So enemies never speak to each other? Bull. Again, most people are not robots or fanatics. Just because they are in a faction does not stop them from behaving like individuals.

    I think in this instance chatting is limited to prevent hate tells and players trolling the other faction. We've all played FFA PvP with open chat and have experienced the shit talking that goes with it. Rarely is it fun.

    So it's more just a mechanic to prevent griefing, and not at all related to the lore or 'realism'.

    Just had an image of Montgomery trolling Rommel during WW2. :)

    That would have been funny.

    It's possible that some officers in WW2 might have spoken each other's language, but not many of the grunts would have.

    Funny thing about big wars (civil wars excepted.) I can't think of many large conflicts where oposing sides spoke the opposite language. Maybe that's why they fought they couldn't "use your words" image

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota

    It would not be inconsistent for people in one faction to temporarily team up with other faction members. Why? Because individuals are not robots or fanatics, atleast not most, so it is conceivable that they would use a temporary truce to their advantage.

    Also chatting would not exist? So enemies never speak to each other? Bull. Again, most people are not robots or fanatics. Just because they are in a faction does not stop them from behaving like individuals.

    More over, factions existed in Elder Scrolls series so they can exist with your model #2. They just would not be so strict and hardcoded into everything you can do.

    Yeah to go on holidays together during the truce perhaps.

    I get you man. I have seen enough of your posts over the years. Black is white because you say so and if anyone disputes it you'll just say it again except more aggressively the next time. Reminds me of the rhetoric in a certain US news network that shall remain nameless.

    People in large world-wide conflicts don't pal around together during a truce, if there even is a truce. It's human nature. Not something robot zealots do.

    It makes no sense in a Tamriel divided into a 3-sided war no matter how much you would like it to.

     

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    I don't fit in either polar opposites as you have characterised them.

    I am happy to have three factional PvP and have always said I am happy with it.

    I am not happy with central TES elements being fracked to accomodate this - primarily the freedom to explore. However, if Zenimax had done a complete U-turn and removed factional PvP and Cyrodil as a PvP zone I would have declared this as going too far - by far...

    Characterising peoples opinions as #1 or #2 and taking no account of the many people one one side or other of the middle, or directly in the middle is ridiculous.

    Most people I dare say sit between these opposites - there aren't two large camps here - there are two vocal camps and a load of people between them.

    You need a #3 with a wide definition...

    I also would be quite happy with the freedom to go to the other areas. Except I wouldn't call it freedom to explore. I would see it as freedom to invade.

    Having the Cyrodiil battles spill over into the other areas would actually be more logical. But then there would have been even more complaints. This time about being forced to PvP.

    PS. You think more choices would be better? Perhaps you should take a good hard critical look at the poll in your thread "Identity Crisis," its obvious bias and deliberately limited choices. No matter what, 4 choices and all, you're choosing there between DAoC being well implemented in one choice and 3 choices that range from clumsy integration, too much DAoC ruininng TES or it simply being a cash grab by DAoC2 posing as TES.

    As if that wasn't bad enough you resort to melodramatic biased hyperbole to further try to steer the "poll" in your pre-determined direction:  "... how many of the beloved core elements of TES have been compromised by the beloved elements of DAoC."

    You coming here and complaining about the limitations of my 2 choices would be hillarious if it wasn't for the fact that you take yourself so seriously. That just makes it sad.

     

     
  • QallidexzQallidexz Austin, TXPosts: 253Member
    Opening PvP up to all of Tamriel would be a terrible idea... As much as I'd like to kill carebears, who want nothing to do with PvP, the whole Cyrodiil/Frontiers dynamc would be lost if they just opened it up to the whole world... Then Cyrodiil would only account for 1/3rd of the PvP zone.
  • SentnlSentnl SydneyPosts: 73Member
    Originally posted by Qallidexz
    Opening PvP up to all of Tamriel would be a terrible idea... As much as I'd like to kill carebears, who want nothing to do with PvP, the whole Cyrodiil/Frontiers dynamc would be lost if they just opened it up to the whole world... Then Cyrodiil would only account for 1/3rd of the PvP zone.

    I also would love to open it up, but agree with you.

    I think people vastly underestimate the size of Cryodiil, not only that, but it's going to be a shared questing/resource zone/hub. So the killing of carebears will happen nonetheless.

    I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  • QallidexzQallidexz Austin, TXPosts: 253Member
    Originally posted by Sentnl

    I think people vastly underestimate the size of Cryodiil, not only that, but it's going to be a shared questing/resource zone/hub. So the killing of carebears will happen nonetheless.

     

    Yea, I hope they really give them a lot of incentive to go on, and I think you're right, Cyrodiil is massive.

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    I don't fit in either polar opposites as you have characterised them.

    I am happy to have three factional PvP and have always said I am happy with it.

    I am not happy with central TES elements being fracked to accomodate this - primarily the freedom to explore. However, if Zenimax had done a complete U-turn and removed factional PvP and Cyrodil as a PvP zone I would have declared this as going too far - by far...

    Characterising peoples opinions as #1 or #2 and taking no account of the many people one one side or other of the middle, or directly in the middle is ridiculous.

    Most people I dare say sit between these opposites - there aren't two large camps here - there are two vocal camps and a load of people between them.

    You need a #3 with a wide definition...

    I also would be quite happy with the freedom to go to the other areas. Except I wouldn't call it freedom to explore. I would see it as freedom to invade.

    Having the Cyrodiil battles spill over into the other areas would actually be more logical. But then there would have been even more complaints. This time about being forced to PvP.

    PS. You think more choices would be better? Perhaps you should take a good hard critical look at the poll in your thread "Identity Crisis," its obvious bias and deliberately limited choices. No matter what, 4 choices and all, you're choosing there between DAoC being well implemented in one choice and 3 choices that range from clumsy integration, too much DAoC ruininng TES or it simply being a cash grab by DAoC2 posing as TES.

    As if that wasn't bad enough you resort to melodramatic biased hyperbole to further try to steer the "poll" in your pre-determined direction:  "... how many of the beloved core elements of TES have been compromised by the beloved elements of DAoC."

    You coming here and complaining about the limitations of my 2 choices would be hillarious if it wasn't for the fact that you take yourself so seriously. That just makes it sad.

     

     

    Resorting to tailing your posts addressing my points with insults yet again I see Iselin.

    You are at the very least, consistent...

    And criticising me for bias after that first version of your post - the irony is so thick you could cut it with a knife!

  • znaiikaznaiika denver, PAPosts: 203Member

    "I am very interested to see what their mega server and preference system can do."

    This can be used to alow any play-styles to play ESO.

    If people who want to take part in the alience war for the throne, but they don't want to take part in a PVP, they could do so, by grouping together with like minded players, join one of the three alinces and the other two aliences are going to be oposite and complete NPC/AI aliences "no players". 

    Also, race shouldn't be restricted to alince, one alince can be with all races.

  • EvolvedMonkyEvolvedMonky Tulsa, OKPosts: 549Member
    Originally posted by Sentnl

    I hope half you realise that you're speaking nonsense...

    WoW came from the warcraft series, were they alike!? I couldn't build any barracks...

    Warhammer came from a miniature game, I couldn't roll any physical dice, oh my god!

    Swtor came from a fictional story, believe it or not... etc.

    THIS IS NOT THE SINGLE PLAYER GAME YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.

    Let it be ffs, let it become it's own entity, dont disturb it. If you're lucky enough to also get a beta key, you can come help send feedback on its great features.

    Just wanted to say WoW was like Warcraft III .   While I and II had cartoony graphics (graphics back then sucked sooo) They were some good rts games and the orcs were dark and evil.   And they had freakn naval battles i still dont know why they took it out for Warcraft III

    Now Warcraft III while it did have some building/rts mechanics it was mostly about your hero and it was more goofy and added all those goofy other races and orcs were just misunderstood.

    In other words WoW was modeled after Warcraft III which was like a weak rts/ weak rpg hybrid mutant. So they took out what lil RTS they had and just went the hero route. 

    Um Warhammer was made by some DAoC reject.  Which is weird cause DAoC wasnt popular when it came out. Launch wasnt that smooth either. And PvP was a joke, FOTM and nerf bats threw most of its early life. AC Darktide was the "pvp game" not DAoC and when DAoC started to fix there junk Everyone was foaming at the mouth over Shadowbane release.

     

    And about the single player game argument.   Ultima Online......  Now as per the treaty UO wins all arguments. Just because its a MMO it doesnt mean it has to throw off its single player roots and wear generic MMO 10 year old boring RvR BS.

    Seriously RvR whooopty freakn doooooo   Thats why GW2 like WvW was such a bore.  There is a reason they dont remake pac-man anymore.   EvE should be the benchmark of pvp.    Who cares about attacking some player ill never talk to over some static land that if i win i get some xp bonus for my realm or some quest opens up for us to grind for days.....OMG so fun.

    Sure it was fun in the 90s but common politics and risk vs reward is what a serious pvp mmo should be about. Not mini-games.

    image
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by EvolvedMonky
    Originally posted by Sentnl

    I hope half you realise that you're speaking nonsense...

    WoW came from the warcraft series, were they alike!? I couldn't build any barracks...

    Warhammer came from a miniature game, I couldn't roll any physical dice, oh my god!

    Swtor came from a fictional story, believe it or not... etc.

    THIS IS NOT THE SINGLE PLAYER GAME YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.

    Let it be ffs, let it become it's own entity, dont disturb it. If you're lucky enough to also get a beta key, you can come help send feedback on its great features.

    Just wanted to say WoW was like Warcraft III .   While I and II had cartoony graphics (graphics back then sucked sooo) They were some good rts games and the orcs were dark and evil.   And they had freakn naval battles i still dont know why they took it out for Warcraft III

    Now Warcraft III while it did have some building/rts mechanics it was mostly about your hero and it was more goofy and added all those goofy other races and orcs were just misunderstood.

    In other words WoW was modeled after Warcraft III which was like a weak rts/ weak rpg hybrid mutant. So they took out what lil RTS they had and just went the hero route. 

    Um Warhammer was made by some DAoC reject.  Which is weird cause DAoC wasnt popular when it came out. Launch wasnt that smooth either. And PvP was a joke, FOTM and nerf bats threw most of its early life. AC Darktide was the "pvp game" not DAoC and when DAoC started to fix there junk Everyone was foaming at the mouth over Shadowbane release.

     

    And about the single player game argument.   Ultima Online......  Now as per the treaty UO wins all arguments. Just because its a MMO it doesnt mean it has to throw off its single player roots and wear generic MMO 10 year old boring RvR BS.

    Seriously RvR whooopty freakn doooooo   Thats why GW2 like WvW was such a bore.  There is a reason they dont remake pac-man anymore.   EvE should be the benchmark of pvp.    Who cares about attacking some player ill never talk to over some static land that if i win i get some xp bonus for my realm or some quest opens up for us to grind for days.....OMG so fun.

    Sure it was fun in the 90s but common politics and risk vs reward is what a serious pvp mmo should be about. Not mini-games.

    Thank god you're not a history teacher. Oh wait... are you?

    "...10 year old boring RvR BS." So what is your interest in this RvR game then exactly? I mean, you like games with half-naked anime hotties and this one doesn't have them. Why are you straying from your Tera forum? Just curious.

  • EvolvedMonkyEvolvedMonky Tulsa, OKPosts: 549Member

    I think i posted on tera form twice maybe.... Dont even play it anymore realy been messing around in Warframe beta.

    And im not interested in the game just "train wrecks". And im at work so blah blah blah to pass the time.

     

    EQ next and WoD are the only games im interested in. Just incase u were wondering.

    image
  • SentnlSentnl SydneyPosts: 73Member
    Originally posted by EvolvedMonky

    Seriously RvR whooopty freakn doooooo   Thats why GW2 like WvW was such a bore.  There is a reason they dont remake pac-man anymore.   EvE should be the benchmark of pvp.    Who cares about attacking some player ill never talk to over some static land that if i win i get some xp bonus for my realm or some quest opens up for us to grind for days.....OMG so fun.

    Bro. Do you even EVE?

    I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by EvolvedMonky

    I think i posted on tera form twice maybe.... Dont even play it anymore realy been messing around in Warframe beta.

    And im not interested in the game just "train wrecks". And im at work so blah blah blah to pass the time.

     

    EQ next and WoD are the only games im interested in. Just incase u were wondering.

    No I really don't care what you're interested in but it's nice to know you consider yourself a prescient critic who can see train wrecks before they happen.

    So just to be clear, you go to forums of games you consider train wrecks to troll because you have a boring job. Did I get that right?

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Qallidexz
    Opening PvP up to all of Tamriel would be a terrible idea... As much as I'd like to kill carebears, who want nothing to do with PvP, the whole Cyrodiil/Frontiers dynamc would be lost if they just opened it up to the whole world... Then Cyrodiil would only account for 1/3rd of the PvP zone.

    that is a great point.

    i love me some open pvp and have even said i wish you could pvp anywhere, but you are right.

    as long as cyrodiil is a huge open area with pvp and pve going on, i should be happy i think.

    my fear is its like GW2 WvW and just a huge zerg fest with little else going on there.

    these fears have not been totally squelched but from all the info i have seen i do have a lot of hope.

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