I think the strong response from the community comes from, in part, that there is a real chance this may not get funded, and they feel lots of negativity amongst people that don't like these types of games or KS in general will impact the success of the project by swaying people on the fence to move on. Negativity is just as easy to snowball around a game and sink it as anything. I doubt that the goal of the people speaking out about this game it to see it not get funded, and I'd like to think it would be in their benefit to see indie projects succeed - but what do i know.
So, as a backer, I don't have a problem with many here not liking the project - most won't, but there could be a chance that it's survival may be indirectly impacted by your negativity towards it. So, there ends up being this strange struggle between the people for and against and they almost seem to feed off eachother - polarizing really. Personally, Ive got no problem with criticism and I think things will cool down once/if this game funds. My only problem is with those who haven't really read much about the game and say things that simply aren't true based on the information we've been given by CSE.
Great post! I always love constructive criticism and healthy debate; unfortunately, that can be hard to find right now. I would love people who do not think Camelot Unchained is worth pledging to come around and state their case in a manner that can be debated. In fact, some have, and I love that.
Unfortunately, right now it is mostly this:
- Kickstarter is stupid (and pledging is stupid)
- Mark Jacobs ruined DAoC/WAR
Very few people actually want to discuss the concepts of the game. Tragic, too, because I can tell some of the people would be fun to debate with if only they moved past the initial "I hate this" reaction and on to something a bit more level-headed.
FFS all of these negative posts today are becoming annoying.. I am sorry, but damn if you don't like CU then don't pledge. It can't get any more simple than that. If you don't wish to pledge then that is fine, move on and stop spewing garbage. It all boils down to your opinion. Your opinion is'nt fact, your opinion is'nt truth, nor is mine. In my opinion I like the concept of CU, so have others as they have stated and so we have pledged.
I think the strong response from the community comes from, in part, that there is a real chance this may not get funded, and they feel lots of negativity amongst people that don't like these types of games or KS in general will impact the success of the project by swaying people on the fence to move on. Negativity is just as easy to snowball around a game and sink it as anything. I doubt that the goal of the people speaking out about this game it to see it not get funded, and I'd like to think it would be in their benefit to see indie projects succeed - but what do i know.
So, as a backer, I don't have a problem with many here not liking the project - most won't, but there could be a chance that it's survival may be indirectly impacted by your negativity towards it. So, there ends up being this strange struggle between the people for and against and they almost seem to feed off eachother - polarizing really. Personally, Ive got no problem with criticism and I think things will cool down once/if this game funds. My only problem is with those who haven't really read much about the game and say things that simply aren't true based on the information we've been given by CSE.
Great post! I always love constructive criticism and healthy debate; unfortunately, that can be hard to find right now. I would love people who do not think Camelot Unchained is worth pledging to come around and state their case in a manner that can be debated. In fact, some have, and I love that.
Unfortunately, right now it is mostly this:
- Kickstarter is stupid (and pledging is stupid)
- Mark Jacobs ruined DAoC/WAR
Very few people actually want to discuss the concepts of the game. Tragic, too, because I can tell some of the people would be fun to debate with if only they moved past the initial "I hate this" reaction and on to something a bit more level-headed.
I think with crafting alone you've got something really unique, with it being a stand alone class that advances through crafting (wow- seems like a simple concept, right?). This game could appeal to a huge number of gamers that love this aspect of mmos. There are some cool things here, but, of course, it is honestly just a vision and in its beginning stages. Hopefully, my biggest wishes are the game gets made, people enjoy it, and I can say that in a small way my support helped make it possible.
I think the entire game will be fun, but I too am also the most interested in the crafting/housing/building systems (which seems like people who say this game is only pvp would get interesting in those).
The way it sounds sandboxy, and you could build structures/towns/forts anywhere really, the possibilities seem endless.
Can you build roads that make travel faster? Likewise can you build walls/obstacles/etc... that impede the flow of traffic?
Can you truley build keeps/towers/houses/guildhouses/inns/towns/whatever anywhere? that could be really exciting...
What role will crafters have in combat? Will they have purely utility functions in active combat to make them necessary, but not dangerous themselves? Will they need to be in the think of things to build rams/catapaults/trebs/siege ladders/pots of oil/etc.... Also for repairs to equipment as wel as walls/structures/doors?
I could go on forever, but that's why crafting class in a RVR game has me really intrigued. The possibilties are amazing...
I think the entire game will be fun, but I too am also the most interested in the crafting/housing/building systems (which seems like people who say this game is only pvp would get interesting in those).
The way it sounds sandboxy, and you could build structures/towns/forts anywhere really, the possibilities seem endless.
Can you build roads that make travel faster? Likewise can you build walls/obstacles/etc... that impede the flow of traffic?
Can you truley build keeps/towers/houses/guildhouses/inns/towns/whatever anywhere? that could be really exciting...
What role will crafters have in combat? Will they have purely utility functions in active combat to make them necessary, but not dangerous themselves? Will they need to be in the think of things to build rams/catapaults/trebs/siege ladders/pots of oil/etc.... Also for repairs to equipment as wel as walls/structures/doors?
I could go on forever, but that's why crafting class in a RVR game has me really intrigued. The possibilties are amazing...
I am right with you about the crafting concept in an RvR game and it as stand alone class. There are many possibilities, will be interesting to see where they take it.
I here both sides of the arguement here. But honestly if someone is asking for ALOT of money they should have at least a alpha or proof of concept to show besides drawings or pillars of gameplay. I wouldnt give a dime. Look at greed monger and their so-called issues now.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
Originally posted by TheJoda I here both sides of the arguement here. But honestly if someone is asking for ALOT of money they should have at least a alpha or proof of concept to show besides drawings or pillars of gameplay. I wouldnt give a dime. Look at greed monger and their so-called issues now.
Fair point but that Greedmonger guy was all kinds of shady - Mark is a game maker, whether you like them or not, not some MMA promoter who has never done this before.
What I am reading here is that some people want far more proof prior to a pledge. Of course this is their choice. The OP also stated that even Greed Monger who showed far more proof of concept is still having issues. So basically whether or not you have proof of concept is meaningless. You will pledge or you will not pledge.
Truth be told typical proof of concept is nothing more than a 1 players 3d demo that has nothing to do with the final product. It doesn't hold any real net code or isn't even based on the final engine. It basically is meaningless other than showcasing visually what they can tell you verbally. The kickstarter could be started at various stages of development as well. Some projects are already at the alpha stage while others use it to actually begin the project or to flesh it out almost near beta stage.
Now let's look at the factors that make people pledge:
1. Game concept as the game isn't made yet or is pre-alpha any and not ported to a real engine.
2. Game makers. Are these guys good and can actually make games?
You decide based on these 2 things because if you want solid proof of a near finished project then you aren't really funding a kickstarter ... you are basically pre-purchasing a near completion game. You either believe in the concept or the team or you don't. Making up excuses why you won't put money to it simply means you do not believe in the project yet and won't accept risk. A dozen or more excuses otherwise won't conceal this truth.
Originally posted by TheJoda I here both sides of the arguement here. But honestly if someone is asking for ALOT of money they should have at least a alpha or proof of concept to show besides drawings or pillars of gameplay. I wouldnt give a dime. Look at greed monger and their so-called issues now.
From what i read up until now, $2M is far from being a lot of money for a MMO...
Originally posted by TheJoda I here both sides of the arguement here. But honestly if someone is asking for ALOT of money they should have at least a alpha or proof of concept to show besides drawings or pillars of gameplay. I wouldnt give a dime. Look at greed monger and their so-called issues now.
If the game doesnt fund, not a single penny 'given' to KS will end in CSE's pocket, it wont even be taken from your Credit card. So there's no risk except that maybe you wouldnt like the game, and then agan, an alpha stage wouldnt show you much either.
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC Thurka on WAR
There is nothing wrong with hope and believing in the fullfilment of a Dream.
Still I see a lot of people say dont hope, cause your Dream may not come true. And others that are overeager too tell why my hopeing and dreaming is bad.
Still, I say let me dream, and support me in my hope that something good might yet come from this dream.
Originally posted by Xobdnas I see where your coming from. If a guy walked up to me on the street and asked for 2 mill to make a game I'd lol in his face. I keep saying it, but the reality is it says more about how desperate we are for a MMO that does more that give us a place to play.
I keep seeing people say things like this, and it doesn't really make much sense. People that are against Kickstarter like to make this argument. The difference is that these are not random people on the street. These are proven game developers. I understand that some people aren't happy about the way DAoC and/or WAR turned out in the end, but regardless of that, they know how to make games. The question then becomes do you believe in the vision they have for THIS game? If yes, then show your support. If no, then move along to something else.
Comments
Great post! I always love constructive criticism and healthy debate; unfortunately, that can be hard to find right now. I would love people who do not think Camelot Unchained is worth pledging to come around and state their case in a manner that can be debated. In fact, some have, and I love that.
Unfortunately, right now it is mostly this:
- Kickstarter is stupid (and pledging is stupid)
- Mark Jacobs ruined DAoC/WAR
Very few people actually want to discuss the concepts of the game. Tragic, too, because I can tell some of the people would be fun to debate with if only they moved past the initial "I hate this" reaction and on to something a bit more level-headed.
I think with crafting alone you've got something really unique, with it being a stand alone class that advances through crafting (wow- seems like a simple concept, right?). This game could appeal to a huge number of gamers that love this aspect of mmos. There are some cool things here, but, of course, it is honestly just a vision and in its beginning stages. Hopefully, my biggest wishes are the game gets made, people enjoy it, and I can say that in a small way my support helped make it possible.
I think the entire game will be fun, but I too am also the most interested in the crafting/housing/building systems (which seems like people who say this game is only pvp would get interesting in those).
The way it sounds sandboxy, and you could build structures/towns/forts anywhere really, the possibilities seem endless.
Can you build roads that make travel faster? Likewise can you build walls/obstacles/etc... that impede the flow of traffic?
Can you truley build keeps/towers/houses/guildhouses/inns/towns/whatever anywhere? that could be really exciting...
What role will crafters have in combat? Will they have purely utility functions in active combat to make them necessary, but not dangerous themselves? Will they need to be in the think of things to build rams/catapaults/trebs/siege ladders/pots of oil/etc.... Also for repairs to equipment as wel as walls/structures/doors?
I could go on forever, but that's why crafting class in a RVR game has me really intrigued. The possibilties are amazing...
MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/
I am right with you about the crafting concept in an RvR game and it as stand alone class. There are many possibilities, will be interesting to see where they take it.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
Fair point but that Greedmonger guy was all kinds of shady - Mark is a game maker, whether you like them or not, not some MMA promoter who has never done this before.
What I am reading here is that some people want far more proof prior to a pledge. Of course this is their choice. The OP also stated that even Greed Monger who showed far more proof of concept is still having issues. So basically whether or not you have proof of concept is meaningless. You will pledge or you will not pledge.
Truth be told typical proof of concept is nothing more than a 1 players 3d demo that has nothing to do with the final product. It doesn't hold any real net code or isn't even based on the final engine. It basically is meaningless other than showcasing visually what they can tell you verbally. The kickstarter could be started at various stages of development as well. Some projects are already at the alpha stage while others use it to actually begin the project or to flesh it out almost near beta stage.
Now let's look at the factors that make people pledge:
1. Game concept as the game isn't made yet or is pre-alpha any and not ported to a real engine.
2. Game makers. Are these guys good and can actually make games?
You decide based on these 2 things because if you want solid proof of a near finished project then you aren't really funding a kickstarter ... you are basically pre-purchasing a near completion game. You either believe in the concept or the team or you don't. Making up excuses why you won't put money to it simply means you do not believe in the project yet and won't accept risk. A dozen or more excuses otherwise won't conceal this truth.
You stay sassy!
From what i read up until now, $2M is far from being a lot of money for a MMO...
If the game doesnt fund, not a single penny 'given' to KS will end in CSE's pocket, it wont even be taken from your Credit card. So there's no risk except that maybe you wouldnt like the game, and then agan, an alpha stage wouldnt show you much either.
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR
There is nothing wrong with hope and believing in the fullfilment of a Dream.
Still I see a lot of people say dont hope, cause your Dream may not come true. And others that are overeager too tell why my hopeing and dreaming is bad.
Still, I say let me dream, and support me in my hope that something good might yet come from this dream.
I keep seeing people say things like this, and it doesn't really make much sense. People that are against Kickstarter like to make this argument. The difference is that these are not random people on the street. These are proven game developers. I understand that some people aren't happy about the way DAoC and/or WAR turned out in the end, but regardless of that, they know how to make games. The question then becomes do you believe in the vision they have for THIS game? If yes, then show your support. If no, then move along to something else.