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Why do they have race limited factions?

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  • QallidexzQallidexz Austin, TXPosts: 253Member
    In that poll posted by tkreep, I voted for DAoC 2 with TES elements... and you look at that like it's a bad thing. That's what I was hoping ESO was at the time, and I still am. That poll isn't even asking people what they want, it's mostly asking people what they think ESO was turning out to be at the time... and it looks like very few people voted that it was "being ruined by TES elements". This poll states very clearly how many people are for faction locks, fine with faction locks, and AGAINST faction locks. lol
  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Tuktz
    The pvp / RVR / AVA may have taken a page out of daoc's success, but I don't see how PVE in TESO is anything like daoc's. I don't think the PVE side is any more similar/disimilar to daoc's PVE than any other MMO. In fact I could spout off a couple mmo's that TESO's PVE sound a lot more similar to than daoc's. So if you're a TES player used to a single player game, and pvp doesn't even interest you, then I don't see how you could say this is daoc reskinned anyway lol.

    this games PVE will be absolutely nothing like Daoc, Daoc was more like EQ pve minus the raiding (originally)

    this games PVE will be more like ES meets GW2 than anything. even the pvp combat mechanics will be nothing like Daoc's.

    the only thing this game has in common with Daoc that i can tell so far is the factions and the open pvp being segregated to one giant zone.

    this game wont even have battlegrounds like Daoc had.

  • SentnlSentnl SydneyPosts: 73Member
    Originally posted by baphamet

     

    this games PVE will be absolutely nothing like Daoc, Daoc was more like EQ pve minus the raiding (originally)

    this games PVE will be more like ES meets GW2 than anything. even the pvp combat mechanics will be nothing like Daoc's.

    the only thing this game has in common with Daoc that i can tell so far is the factions and the open pvp being segregated to one giant zone.

    this game wont even have battlegrounds like Daoc had.

    More of this nonsense.

    Have you played the game? Tested it? Wait! Are you from the future here giving us your prophetic words!?

    Where are you even getting any of this information from? Whether it turns out to be completely true or not...

    I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Sentnl

    Originally posted by baphamet   this games PVE will be absolutely nothing like Daoc, Daoc was more like EQ pve minus the raiding (originally) this games PVE will be more like ES meets GW2 than anything. even the pvp combat mechanics will be nothing like Daoc's. the only thing this game has in common with Daoc that i can tell so far is the factions and the open pvp being segregated to one giant zone. this game wont even have battlegrounds like Daoc had.
    More of this nonsense.

    Have you played the game? Tested it? Wait! Are you from the future here giving us your prophetic words!?

    Where are you even getting any of this information from? Whether it turns out to be completely true or not...


    what part of the info i listed do you question? they have announced many of the mechanics and none of them are like what Daoc had NONE!.

    did you play Daoc? it was very static combat like EQ and much like most of the MMO's of that era.

    why don't you go read any of the reviews from pax that have explained what combat is like in TESO and attempt to tell me how it resembles Daoc in any way.

    until then, cry to someone else.

  • VendacVendac Sauk City, WIPosts: 39Member
    Originally posted by baphamet

     


    Originally posted by Sentnl

    Originally posted by baphamet   this games PVE will be absolutely nothing like Daoc, Daoc was more like EQ pve minus the raiding (originally) this games PVE will be more like ES meets GW2 than anything. even the pvp combat mechanics will be nothing like Daoc's. the only thing this game has in common with Daoc that i can tell so far is the factions and the open pvp being segregated to one giant zone. this game wont even have battlegrounds like Daoc had.
    More of this nonsense.

     

    Have you played the game? Tested it? Wait! Are you from the future here giving us your prophetic words!?

    Where are you even getting any of this information from? Whether it turns out to be completely true or not...


     

    what part of the info i listed do you question? they have announced many of the mechanics and none of them are like what Daoc had NONE!.

    did you play Daoc? it was very static combat like EQ and much like most of the MMO's of that era.

    why don't you go read any of the reviews from pax that have explained what combat is like in TESO and attempt to tell me how it resembles Daoc in any way.

    until then, cry to someone else.

    PvE is DAOC was weak at best at release.  It was hard to level.  There were few quests.  You had to group, and you had to have a balanced group.  There was nothing wrong with it, it worked, it still works, but it is harder.  The biggest issue with DAOC PvE was the fact you could powerlevel which actually destroyed the game at some level as after awhile the starter areas became a wasteland.  Then came WoW with a quest based leveling system you could easily solo and I feel that that one thing changed MMOs for the worse for the most part.  People didnt need to make friends or join guilds, or be social to get a group and get good leveling done. 

    I seriously doubt that they will use PvE system like DAOC.  It is simply too hard for most people.  Most casual players dont have time to log in for 2-3 hours to get a decent group and level.  But all the same Im hoping that its not all quest grind either and those that choose to group and do harder quest lines get proper rewards, something on the order of 10X the XP for needing a group to do something that takes an hour vs running solo quests that take 5 minutes. 

    Some of the DAOC mechanics are great though and I hope we see some of them make it in ESO.  The game made heavy use of the trinity.  Speed classes to give range in PvP or a getaway in PvE.  Endurance regen classes were needed for groups.   Positional melee styles with real effects and bonuses.  Casters had to stand still to cast and could be interrupted, not this run and gun crap we have in most games now.  Last but not least, no fricking GCD.  Inst cast heals made it possible to keep someone alive in a burst damage scenario, a quick insta DD could interupt a caster, and melee speed was determined by the speed of the weapon and you stats, not some timer.

     

    You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  • AnakamiAnakami BielefeldPosts: 103Member

    I hope that at some point the developers would answer a few questions regarding this race lock decision. Mostly why they thought it was sucha good idea to begin with.

    I find it hilarious that they emphasize on wanting to bring in the social media and networks and invite you to play the game with your friends. I'd like to ask them then: Tell me, how can I play with my friends if they are race locked into one of the factions right from the start. Can I communicate with them? Quest with them? PvP as a group or guild?

    So far the answer seems no, unless they all decide to give up on their favorite race from ES and pick one that happens to be in the same alliance that my race is in. So how does this support social play? What about the guild that we were planning to create? RP events in various regions of Tamriel?

    I am really puzzled at this design decision. But there is hoping that they will lift these restrictions somewhere along the development of this game.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,609Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Anakami

    I hope that at some point the developers would answer a few questions regarding this race lock decision. Mostly why they thought it was sucha good idea to begin with.

    I find it hilarious that they emphasize on wanting to bring in the social media and networks and invite you to play the game with your friends. I'd like to ask them then: Tell me, how can I play with my friends if they are race locked into one of the factions right from the start. Can I communicate with them? Quest with them? PvP as a group or guild?

    So far the answer seems no, unless they all decide to give up on their favorite race from ES and pick one that happens to be in the same alliance that my race is in. So how does this support social play? What about the guild that we were planning to create? RP events in various regions of Tamriel?

    I am really puzzled at this design decision. But there is hoping that they will lift these restrictions somewhere along the development of this game.

    And here I thought you were an intelligent person. You really don't know why they did it? Or are you just using the same old tactic of feigning ignorance to make a point? I'm betting on number 2.

    There is a 3-sided war. People and places are separated by that war. This is what happens in wars, the people and territories are separated. That is why they did it. The alternative that is proposed by some is that first you pick a race and then you pick a side so that each side would have an equal mix of all 3 races. From a believability point of view, that is just ridiculous. It sounds like a sport not a war.

    You might prefer something different, but saying you don't understand why is disingenuous.

     

  • AnakamiAnakami BielefeldPosts: 103Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Anakami

    I hope that at some point the developers would answer a few questions regarding this race lock decision. Mostly why they thought it was sucha good idea to begin with.

    I find it hilarious that they emphasize on wanting to bring in the social media and networks and invite you to play the game with your friends. I'd like to ask them then: Tell me, how can I play with my friends if they are race locked into one of the factions right from the start. Can I communicate with them? Quest with them? PvP as a group or guild?

    So far the answer seems no, unless they all decide to give up on their favorite race from ES and pick one that happens to be in the same alliance that my race is in. So how does this support social play? What about the guild that we were planning to create? RP events in various regions of Tamriel?

    I am really puzzled at this design decision. But there is hoping that they will lift these restrictions somewhere along the development of this game.

    And here I thought you were an intelligent person. You really don't know why they did it? Or are you just using the same old tactic of feigning ignorance to make a point? I'm betting on number 2.

    There is a 3-sided war. People and places are separated by that war. This is what happens in wars, the people and territories are separated. That is why they did it. The alternative that is proposed by some is that first you pick a race and then you pick a side so that each side would have an equal mix of all 3 races. From a believability point of view, that is just ridiculous. It sounds like a sport not a war.

    You might prefer something different, but saying you don't understand why is disingenuous.

     

    And here I thought you were a person who didn't have to resort to insults :D

    Also, you didn't understand my point. I am well aware of the fact that they tried to build this game around their PvP. What I don't understand is that they thought restricting PvE so much and severely limiting the choices of people wanting to play together with friends regardless of race choice was a good idea.

    It is also not necessary. They can have their RvR all they want, but they should also offer  different options for those who are more interested in the PvE part. More options is always a good thing.

    I know you are probably going to use that faction pride argument, but see, this is where we disagree the most I think. I don't need some artificial faction pride to enjoy PvP. I do PvP for PvP's sake. I PvP because I want to fight and measure my skills against that of other players.

    Now if there is also a good reason to fight,backed by ingame lore, that's even better of course. Don't feel it here though, the reasons why some of the races are allied now seem unvonvincing at best. Also the alternative would be great, they just have to make that war more a war between political factions based on agenda than based on race. You know, like Elder Scrolls has always been about conflicting interests raher than racially motivated wars. In any case, my PvE experience does not influence my PvP motivation at all.

    The way it is now I doubt you will get any sense of faction pride anyway. You can campaign hop (with a penalty or delay maybe, but the option is in) and what you are fighting for will reset anyway at some point, when a new emperor is chosen by the game. I would PvP anyway, because i like PvP, but feeling some sort of pride just because I pick one of the 3 factions? Hm...nah, cant feel it here. Was a lot different in DAoC though.

    So what exactly do you lose if they would allow people to play together and have the PvE part co-op style? I have read some arguments here that stated they need to build up enough hate for the enemy to get a sense of faction pride, so it totally ruins their mood if they would see someone from a different faction.

    That's a bit scary imo. I don`t want to hate anyone here, I just want a friendly competition on the battlefield. But alas, I think we still can have both with the mega server technology. I am pretty sure you can be put into PvE zones where you will never see someone from a different faction. You could also have an option to not being able to understand anything a member of another faction says. There, you get your "I am isolated and can hate my enemy now" thingy, and those who don't need or want that to restrict their PvE experience get their preferred playstyle.

    I can't see why anyone would be against the inclusion of more options so more people can enjoy the game. Unless...but I won't go there ;)

  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Edmonton, ABPosts: 379Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Anakami

    I hope that at some point the developers would answer a few questions regarding this race lock decision. Mostly why they thought it was sucha good idea to begin with.

    I find it hilarious that they emphasize on wanting to bring in the social media and networks and invite you to play the game with your friends. I'd like to ask them then: Tell me, how can I play with my friends if they are race locked into one of the factions right from the start. Can I communicate with them? Quest with them? PvP as a group or guild?

    So far the answer seems no, unless they all decide to give up on their favorite race from ES and pick one that happens to be in the same alliance that my race is in. So how does this support social play? What about the guild that we were planning to create? RP events in various regions of Tamriel?

    I am really puzzled at this design decision. But there is hoping that they will lift these restrictions somewhere along the development of this game.

    And here I thought you were an intelligent person. You really don't know why they did it? Or are you just using the same old tactic of feigning ignorance to make a point? I'm betting on number 2.

    There is a 3-sided war. People and places are separated by that war. This is what happens in wars, the people and territories are separated. That is why they did it. The alternative that is proposed by some is that first you pick a race and then you pick a side so that each side would have an equal mix of all 3 races. From a believability point of view, that is just ridiculous. It sounds like a sport not a war.

    From a believability side:  it's 'just ridiculous' that there are no traitors, defectors, or racial-minorities loyal to the place of their generation's birth than to that of  ancestors.  That every Breton serves Emeric, every Altmer serves Ayrenn and so on.

    Of course, that's not *entirely* true.  It has been confirmed that there is an Argonian quest-giver in the Covenant lands, so this restriction, this 'people and territories are seperated' only applies as an absolute to the PCs.  NPCs get to break that rule.

    Ergo, a strict sense of 'believablity' is not the reason they did it this way.   What I believe is the real reason they went this route:  Matt just feels more comfortable balancing the AvA conflict by locking the players to given sides according to racial picks.  He believes it makes for a more sporting<sic> wargame that way :p

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,609Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Anakami
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Anakami

    I hope that at some point the developers would answer a few questions regarding this race lock decision. Mostly why they thought it was sucha good idea to begin with.

    I find it hilarious that they emphasize on wanting to bring in the social media and networks and invite you to play the game with your friends. I'd like to ask them then: Tell me, how can I play with my friends if they are race locked into one of the factions right from the start. Can I communicate with them? Quest with them? PvP as a group or guild?

    So far the answer seems no, unless they all decide to give up on their favorite race from ES and pick one that happens to be in the same alliance that my race is in. So how does this support social play? What about the guild that we were planning to create? RP events in various regions of Tamriel?

    I am really puzzled at this design decision. But there is hoping that they will lift these restrictions somewhere along the development of this game.

    And here I thought you were an intelligent person. You really don't know why they did it? Or are you just using the same old tactic of feigning ignorance to make a point? I'm betting on number 2.

    There is a 3-sided war. People and places are separated by that war. This is what happens in wars, the people and territories are separated. That is why they did it. The alternative that is proposed by some is that first you pick a race and then you pick a side so that each side would have an equal mix of all 3 races. From a believability point of view, that is just ridiculous. It sounds like a sport not a war.

    You might prefer something different, but saying you don't understand why is disingenuous.

     

    And here I thought you were a person who didn't have to resort to insults :D

    Also, you didn't understand my point. I am well aware of the fact that they tried to build this game around their PvP. What I don't understand is that they thought restricting PvE so much and severely limiting the choices of people wanting to play together with friends regardless of race choice was a good idea.

    It is also not necessary. They can have their RvR all they want, but they should also offer  different options for those who are more interested in the PvE part. More options is always a good thing.

    I know you are probably going to use that faction pride argument, but see, this is where we disagree the most I think. I don't need some artificial faction pride to enjoy PvP. I do PvP for PvP's sake. I PvP because I want to fight and measure my skills against that of other players.

    Now if there is also a good reason to fight,backed by ingame lore, that's even better of course. Don't feel it here though, the reasons why some of the races are allied now seem unvonvincing at best. Also the alternative would be great, they just have to make that war more a war between political factions based on agenda than based on race. You know, like Elder Scrolls has always been about conflicting interests raher than racially motivated wars. In any case, my PvE experience does not influence my PvP motivation at all.

    The way it is now I doubt you will get any sense of faction pride anyway. You can campaign hop (with a penalty or delay maybe, but the option is in) and what you are fighting for will reset anyway at some point, when a new emperor is chosen by the game. I would PvP anyway, because i like PvP, but feeling some sort of pride just because I pick one of the 3 factions? Hm...nah, cant feel it here. Was a lot different in DAoC though.

    So what exactly do you lose if they would allow people to play together and have the PvE part co-op style? I have read some arguments here that stated they need to build up enough hate for the enemy to get a sense of faction pride, so it totally ruins their mood if they would see someone from a different faction.

    That's a bit scary imo. I don`t want to hate anyone here, I just want a friendly competition on the battlefield. But alas, I think we still can have both with the mega server technology. I am pretty sure you can be put into PvE zones where you will never see someone from a different faction. You could also have an option to not being able to understand anything a member of another faction says. There, you get your "I am isolated and can hate my enemy now" thingy, and those who don't need or want that to restrict their PvE experience get their preferred playstyle.

    I can't see why anyone would be against the inclusion of more options so more people can enjoy the game. Unless...but I won't go there ;)

    Characterizing a misguided opinion as an absolute truth doesn't make it so. No, More options is not always a good thing. More focus and cohesiveness trumps more options every time. For example, competitive 10 minute scenarion PvP would be another option. One that would make no sense here and would dilute and cheapen their attempt to have this PvP be a different type with an emphasis on large scale strategy and tactics. Likewise having factions who are at war in Cyrodiil comingle and quest together when not in Cyrodiil would also be another option that does not fit into this game design.

    And you're wasting your time trying to preemptively counter an argument I have no need to mention. It's not about faction pride, it's about consistency and focus. They have created a lore for this game of a 3-sided war separated by region and races. I know that you and a few others don't like that. Nevertheless, they have made that fundamental design choice. Now they are just designing the whole world and game systems to be consistent with that original fundamental design decission. Faction pride may or may not be a bonus consequence.

    What do you loose by comingling willy nilly in PvE? Just a consistent, believable design: there is either a 3-sided war with the races divided into factions or there is not. Either one of those would have been a viable premise around which to build an MMO. The one things that isn't viable is having both at once.

    That is what the 3 of you who are consistently railing agains the game don't seem to get when you promote unrealistic "compromises." Design decissions have consequences that impact the whole game. I get that you don't like the 3-faction racial separation. Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion and your vision of how the game should have been designed. Just don't try to pretend that shoe-horning your game-play preference of everyone PvEing together makes any sense whatsoever within the current design model. That type of PvE gameplay would only make sense If Zmax had chosen to design an MMO without a 3-sided racially separated war.

     

  • AnakamiAnakami BielefeldPosts: 103Member

    That type of PvE gameplay would only make sense If Zmax had chosen to design an MMO without a 3-sided racially separated war.

     

    That is exactly my issue with their design decision. Of course it is only my personal impression, but a 3 sided racially separated war is a terrible idea for TES.

    Also, I am not ranting against the game, just questioning parts of its design. I am really fine with all the rest, just the race lock and the issue of not being able to play with my friends who would like to play their race of choice bothers me. That's all :)

  • SentnlSentnl SydneyPosts: 73Member
    Originally posted by Anakami

    That type of PvE gameplay would only make sense If Zmax had chosen to design an MMO without a 3-sided racially separated war.

     

    That is exactly my issue with their design decision. Of course it is only my personal impression, but a 3 sided racially separated war is a terrible idea for TES.

    Also, I am not ranting against the game, just questioning parts of its design. I am really fine with all the rest, just the race lock and the issue of not being able to play with my friends who would like to play their race of choice bothers me. That's all :)

    I dont see any logical explanation as to how pve would suffer from RvRvR. If anything, it would make it better.

    I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Because MMOs should have restraints and limitations. I know pop culture says you can always change your circumstances and be anything you want to be, but it's just not true.
  • CthulhuPuffsCthulhuPuffs Henderson, NVPosts: 363Member Common
    Originally posted by KaosProphet

    From a believability side:  it's 'just ridiculous' that there are no traitors, defectors, or racial-minorities loyal to the place of their generation's birth than to that of  ancestors.  That every Breton serves Emeric, every Altmer serves Ayrenn and so on.

    Of course, that's not *entirely* true.  It has been confirmed that there is an Argonian quest-giver in the Covenant lands, so this restriction, this 'people and territories are seperated' only applies as an absolute to the PCs.  NPCs get to break that rule.

    Ergo, a strict sense of 'believablity' is not the reason they did it this way.   What I believe is the real reason they went this route:  Matt just feels more comfortable balancing the AvA conflict by locking the players to given sides according to racial picks.  He believes it makes for a more sporting wargame that way :p

    I agree with this.

    Matt Firor is doing the only thing Matt Firor knows how to do. He cant think outside that limited DAOC formula

    He reminds me of the "Awesom-O 4000" who can only think up movie ideas that feature Adam Sandler

    IMO he is phoning the whole game in

    Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

    Games Played: Too Many

  • SentnlSentnl SydneyPosts: 73Member
    Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
    Originally posted by KaosProphet

    From a believability side:  it's 'just ridiculous' that there are no traitors, defectors, or racial-minorities loyal to the place of their generation's birth than to that of  ancestors.  That every Breton serves Emeric, every Altmer serves Ayrenn and so on.

    Of course, that's not *entirely* true.  It has been confirmed that there is an Argonian quest-giver in the Covenant lands, so this restriction, this 'people and territories are seperated' only applies as an absolute to the PCs.  NPCs get to break that rule.

    Ergo, a strict sense of 'believablity' is not the reason they did it this way.   What I believe is the real reason they went this route:  Matt just feels more comfortable balancing the AvA conflict by locking the players to given sides according to racial picks.  He believes it makes for a more sporting wargame that way :p

    I agree with this.

    Matt Firor is doing the only thing Matt Firor knows how to do. He cant think outside that limited DAOC formula

    He reminds me of the "Awesom-O 4000" who can only think up movie ideas that feature Adam Sandler

    IMO he is phoning the whole game in

    You realise ESO is a "pvp" game right? Domination style RvR...

    Do you understand how tedious that gets with only two realms? Do you understand how exciting it is with three?

    You've never played an RvRvR game have you... =(

    Never experienced a fight in a bottleneck, when all of a sudden the third realm comes from behind... It's a great model, stop being a carebear, it's revolting.

    I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  • AnakamiAnakami BielefeldPosts: 103Member

    I don't think anyone is having issues with the RvR mechanic. At least I do like that mechanic and I enjoyed it a lot in DAoC. It is rather the theme they chose that is not fitting for TES, imo.

    In DAoC I could really get behind the idea of 3 different mythological based realms fighting it out. The races in DAoC all belonged to their realm. There was no trading or communicating with the other realms, because they were completely different mythological worlds.

    Now in TES the races all belong to the same world, Tamriel. There was and is trading and communicating all the time. They were never seperated by some magical barrier, unlike DAoC where you coudl argue that mythological realms are indeed separated by magic ;)

    It just does not fit with TES to have racial wars and locked factions based on race.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,609Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Anakami

    I don't think anyone is having issues with the RvR mechanic. At least I do like that mechanic and I enjoyed it a lot in DAoC. It is rather the theme they chose that is not fitting for TES, imo.

    In DAoC I could really get behind the idea of 3 different mythological based realms fighting it out. The races in DAoC all belonged to their realm. There was no trading or communicating with the other realms, because they were completely different mythological worlds.

    Now in TES the races all belong to the same world, Tamriel. There was and is trading and communicating all the time. They were never seperated by some magical barrier, unlike DAoC where you coudl argue that mythological realms are indeed separated by magic ;)

    It just does not fit with TES to have racial wars and locked factions based on race.

    There you go again. Stating another opinion as fact.

    When you're writing fantasy--be it in the form of a book, a movie, a single player RPG, an MMO...whatever. There are no rules that say that different mythological worlds do not mix. You're just making that up because its convenient to your position.

    Dark Age of Camelot could have been done any one of a thousand different ways and in many of those parallel DAoC universes the mythologies could have mixed. As a matter of fact the cultures that had those mythologies as part of their oral and written traditions--The Norse, Celts and Britons--did in fact mix...eventually.

    They didn't mix in DAoC simply because their game was designed that way. And since there had been no single player DAoC games prior to the MMO, there wasn't a handful of fans of the single game crying "lore foul!"

    I'm also a TES fan and I say it fits perfectly wel.

  • VendacVendac Sauk City, WIPosts: 39Member
    Originally posted by Sentnl
    Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
    Originally posted by KaosProphet

    From a believability side:  it's 'just ridiculous' that there are no traitors, defectors, or racial-minorities loyal to the place of their generation's birth than to that of  ancestors.  That every Breton serves Emeric, every Altmer serves Ayrenn and so on.

    Of course, that's not *entirely* true.  It has been confirmed that there is an Argonian quest-giver in the Covenant lands, so this restriction, this 'people and territories are seperated' only applies as an absolute to the PCs.  NPCs get to break that rule.

    Ergo, a strict sense of 'believablity' is not the reason they did it this way.   What I believe is the real reason they went this route:  Matt just feels more comfortable balancing the AvA conflict by locking the players to given sides according to racial picks.  He believes it makes for a more sporting wargame that way :p

    I agree with this.

    Matt Firor is doing the only thing Matt Firor knows how to do. He cant think outside that limited DAOC formula

    He reminds me of the "Awesom-O 4000" who can only think up movie ideas that feature Adam Sandler

    IMO he is phoning the whole game in

    You realise ESO is a "pvp" game right? Domination style RvR...

    Do you understand how tedious that gets with only two realms? Do you understand how exciting it is with three?

    You've never played an RvRvR game have you... =(

    Never experienced a fight in a bottleneck, when all of a sudden the third realm comes from behind... It's a great model, stop being a carebear, it's revolting.

    QFT

    You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sentnl

    I agree with this.

    Matt Firor is doing the only thing Matt Firor knows how to do. He cant think outside that limited DAOC formula

    He reminds me of the "Awesom-O 4000" who can only think up movie ideas that feature Adam Sandler

    IMO he is phoning the whole game in

    You realise ESO is a "pvp" game right? Domination style RvR...

    Do you understand how tedious that gets with only two realms? Do you understand how exciting it is with three?

    You've never played an RvRvR game have you... =(

    Never experienced a fight in a bottleneck, when all of a sudden the third realm comes from behind... It's a great model, stop being a carebear, it's revolting.

    Maybe he's not interested in a 3 realm game even with pvp?

    Maybe he doesn't mind two factons or maybe he likes ffa?

    your passion for the subject can't be questioned but you assume too much.

    Maybe he was expecting an "Elder Scrolls" game in the style of game the Elder Scrolls has brought to us over the last few years and is quite surprised to find a pvp system that seems to come out of left field.

  • AnakamiAnakami BielefeldPosts: 103Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Anakami

    I don't think anyone is having issues with the RvR mechanic. At least I do like that mechanic and I enjoyed it a lot in DAoC. It is rather the theme they chose that is not fitting for TES, imo.

    In DAoC I could really get behind the idea of 3 different mythological based realms fighting it out. The races in DAoC all belonged to their realm. There was no trading or communicating with the other realms, because they were completely different mythological worlds.

    Now in TES the races all belong to the same world, Tamriel. There was and is trading and communicating all the time. They were never seperated by some magical barrier, unlike DAoC where you coudl argue that mythological realms are indeed separated by magic ;)

    It just does not fit with TES to have racial wars and locked factions based on race.

    There you go again. Stating another opinion as fact.

    When you're writing fantasy--be it in the form of a book, a movie, a single player RPG, an MMO...whatever. There are no rules that say that different mythological worlds do not mix. You're just making that up because its convenient to your position.

    Dark Age of Camelot could have been done any one of a thousand different ways and in many of those parallel DAoC universes the mythologies could have mixed. As a matter of fact the cultures that had those mythologies as part of their oral and written traditions--The Norse, Celts and Britons--did in fact mix...eventually.

    They didn't mix in DAoC simply because their game was designed that way. And since there had been no single player DAoC games prior to the MMO, there wasn't a handful of fans of the single game crying "lore foul!"

    I'm also a TES fan and I say it fits perfectly wel.

    I don't think I am making anything up here :) They had 3 different mythological realms and the races of each of these realms belonged to that realm's mythology. In contrast the races in ES that are now forcibly put into three fixed alliances inhabit the same world and they have been trading and communicating with each other prior to this..."lore alteration" I ll call it. From what I heard the NPCs still do, so it's double hilarious that they won't allow players to do the same. 

    And it's not even solely about a lore foul here. It is the simple fact that people can't play together while having their favorite ES race. Maybe that doesn't bother you, and that's fine. I also accept that you think it fits TES perfectly :) I just know that my friends and I won't be playing this game if the limitations remain and that would be very sad, because just like you we all were looking forward to a good game.

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    It increases the hate factor.

    Good point.  Whenever I see one of those filthy elves (my preferred faction doesn't have any elvish races), I'll remember all those ganks.  Grrr.

  • faxnadufaxnadu HelsinkiPosts: 940Member Uncommon
    if the factions are as alliances why would you wanna make orc and roam around summerset isles pretending that high elf are your buddies?
  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Trudge34
    I don't mind the race limited factions as much as you can't explore 2/3 of the world without creating another character within the other faction. You should be able to explore the whole world, but realize that you're going to be a hostile enemy in the other areas and prone to being killed by guards and towns people. 

    That's another problem I have and I feel it's closely connected to the race/faction limitations.

    You can explore the whole world without making toons. After many vocal fans were bothered by it they decided to listen and change that. They didn't change their mind completely but they met us halfway. You may explore the whole of Tamriel after you've finished the mainstory (or reached level 50) on your primary focus. And then you may choose the next factions area to explore.

    However there is a lot of lore tied into the race restriction.

    image
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by m0lly
    if the factions are as alliances why would you wanna make orc and roam around summerset isles pretending that high elf are your buddies?

    maybe he wants to roam summerset and kill them.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vendac
    Originally posted by baphamet

     


    Originally posted by Sentnl

    Originally posted by baphamet   this games PVE will be absolutely nothing like Daoc, Daoc was more like EQ pve minus the raiding (originally) this games PVE will be more like ES meets GW2 than anything. even the pvp combat mechanics will be nothing like Daoc's. the only thing this game has in common with Daoc that i can tell so far is the factions and the open pvp being segregated to one giant zone. this game wont even have battlegrounds like Daoc had.
    More of this nonsense.

     

    Have you played the game? Tested it? Wait! Are you from the future here giving us your prophetic words!?

    Where are you even getting any of this information from? Whether it turns out to be completely true or not...


     

    what part of the info i listed do you question? they have announced many of the mechanics and none of them are like what Daoc had NONE!.

    did you play Daoc? it was very static combat like EQ and much like most of the MMO's of that era.

    why don't you go read any of the reviews from pax that have explained what combat is like in TESO and attempt to tell me how it resembles Daoc in any way.

    until then, cry to someone else.

    PvE is DAOC was weak at best at release.  It was hard to level.  There were few quests.  You had to group, and you had to have a balanced group.  There was nothing wrong with it, it worked, it still works, but it is harder.  The biggest issue with DAOC PvE was the fact you could powerlevel which actually destroyed the game at some level as after awhile the starter areas became a wasteland.  Then came WoW with a quest based leveling system you could easily solo and I feel that that one thing changed MMOs for the worse for the most part.  People didnt need to make friends or join guilds, or be social to get a group and get good leveling done. 

    I seriously doubt that they will use PvE system like DAOC.  It is simply too hard for most people.  Most casual players dont have time to log in for 2-3 hours to get a decent group and level.  But all the same Im hoping that its not all quest grind either and those that choose to group and do harder quest lines get proper rewards, something on the order of 10X the XP for needing a group to do something that takes an hour vs running solo quests that take 5 minutes. 

    Some of the DAOC mechanics are great though and I hope we see some of them make it in ESO.  The game made heavy use of the trinity.  Speed classes to give range in PvP or a getaway in PvE.  Endurance regen classes were needed for groups.   Positional melee styles with real effects and bonuses.  Casters had to stand still to cast and could be interrupted, not this run and gun crap we have in most games now.  Last but not least, no fricking GCD.  Inst cast heals made it possible to keep someone alive in a burst damage scenario, a quick insta DD could interupt a caster, and melee speed was determined by the speed of the weapon and you stats, not some timer.

     

    Also brought in millions of players and mainstreamed the MMO genre.  I also played Asheron's Call which was the first MMO to offer soloability and it is the reason why I like newer games now.  Forced grouping is idiotic especially considering every endgame activity in MMO's are still group centered content.  I am looking forward to an MMO that offers true solo endgame content as well!

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

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This discussion has been closed.