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Armor and Equipment design style (Horned helmets, spikey pauldrons, etc).
Stiler
Member Posts: 599
Tried to search about this (I remember a topic on armour design a while back) but it seems search isn't working? (It turns up 0 results reagrdless of what you put in it, even putting in "camelot" brought back 0 results, for sub/titles.
In many of the concept art pieces that have been released from the kickstarter it seems the armour design is leaning heavily toward "Horned/crested" helmets and spikey/large pauldrons, especially in regards to the Tuatha it seems (at least that's the realm I'm assuming since it mentions them in the update)
IE:
I am hoping that there are good alternatives to these overall designs. While I understand some people like that style, simialr to WoW with their big pauldrons and such, I hope with the player crafted gear we can have good alternatives available to each realm. The Albs (going from the "Races of Camelot) picture looks to be one that has a more streamline/realistic design of equipment.
I'm not saying get rid of it or anything, just please offer people good different choices through crafting to not get stuck into that style, like WoW and other mmo's have done. I'd much rather see armour (for all 3 realms) that looks more believable in design for battle. That's just my personal prefrence, and I understand others can have a different opinion, that's why I'm just asking for the option to have a good different look if we play as a Tuatha or Viking, etc not to get stuck in large spikey pauldrons/horned/crested helmets galore..
Comments
One thing to remember about concept art is it's, well, conceptual and emotive. Usually, very little, if any makes it to the final product. They're trying to get a feel for races, classes, etc and discover directions for characters and stuff. So, it usually starts out pretty far out, like concept cars, to spark ideas and free up imagination, but ends up toned down.
Also, in that top pic, the horns look like they're on the character, not necessarily the helm...lol, not trying to scare you any more.
The overall direction seems to be pointing to the dragons holding sway. The cloaks and helms seem to evoke the wings and talons a lot, so maybe after the veil is pierced, the dragons are the ultimate gods for each realm. Who knows.
I hate spikey armour, it's idiotic. I really hope it has a more realistic look. Armour is designed to guide strikes away from vulnerable points and protect the wearer. It's meant to deflect a strike, not help it hit with full force.
All spikes do is trap a weapon and guide it into the armour, possibly at some very vulnerable areas. Exactly the opposite of what it's meant to be doing.
And all those horned Viking helmets.. myth. They weren't that different in design to the Saxon ones. Also in the time frame we're looking at there was no plate armour. That didn't arrive until the late middle ages, 13th century.
I know it's a game and it's all a bit of fun but please, at least try and be semi realistic.
Its a game and its got dragons and potentially "fantasy" inspired races. There is no "time frame" of the game as it relates to our earthen history. Its taking some references to our old school lore of 3 cultures and twisting it after a cataclysm level event. Its throwing magic into the mix on top of that. So the armor and looks of the races can be wild or as tame as they want it to be. But no reason to stress that it HAS to be realistic to a time period...that never existed since this is a fantasy game.
not having plate armour would be a crime, the SKYeXile demands it.
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
I understand that, I did say it's a game and a bit of fun but the OP wanted us to express our opinions. Mine is that I hate spikey armour. I don't care how high the fantasy is, how much magic is in the game, or when it's set in history. Spikey armour is just dumb in my opinion.
It's just an opinion. If you like spikey armour that's up to you, I don't. I like a more realistic look. I'm not attacking the game or it's developers if that's the way they go, It's just not my preferrence.
If you read the original post the OP is basically saying the same thing. I happen to agree with him.
On the character....
It's a perfectly fine opinion, no attack detected by me.
It is of course concept art and we have tons of it, the vast majority of it won't ever see the light of day other than in updates like these. I gave our artists a few basic concepts and then I let them have fun with them for quite a while before I'll even look at them again. Sometimes they go off in directions that work out well, sometimes they don't but I always want them to try different style/ideas/etc. before I have any additional input.
FYI, I hate spikey, WoW-like armor too but as per above, I think that artists need room to express themselves creatively and come up with lots of different ideas early on without me or anyone else saying "This must be the path we follow!" at this stage of a game's development.
Edit: There will be no Viking helmets of the type you mentioned in an earlier post.
Mark
P.S. Sorry I have been here in a bit, it's been quite a few interesting days.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Let em make ceremonial type armor.....if its worn on the battlefield you take penalties.....
personally I hate it and think if it is too be made it is one of the last things done....or added after release
The horns are on the characters, interesting. I noticed these are TDD's, and while I hate giving WoW comparisons, and generally don't like WoW, I noticed they almost look like the Satyrs do in that game. Interesting choice for the TDD's to look sort of "demon-like" in nature. Is there a reason for this, and can we expect TDD's to have kind of "demon" theme upon release?
Yes, it should contrast nicely with the Arthurian Emo Knight and Viking Outlaw biker themes.
There's a reason but they are not demonic and this is just one possible races in its early stages of development.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Unless the spiked armor is the weapon.
"You below out your challenges as you charge towards your cravenly foe.
You crash into your foe with a magnificent crunch of bones and armor."
Now that is what a spiked armor is all about. Its not fancy, its just nasty and scary, and should be avoided if heading your way.
P.S: This is the picture that got me thinkin along the "demonic-theme" lines:
I have to say personally, that I like the spikey armor.
I know it doesn't really fit in with traditional "viking" history, BUT this is not typical viking history, this is an alternate path.
Vikings were very savage warriors, and given the opportunity, skill and knowledge I VERY HIGHLY believe they would have put as many spikes on their armor as possible, and also very likely human skulls as well!! I also know this is the TDD race we're talking about but given what happened to the world as far as lore is seemingly headed in a very new direction, which I love by the way, these races could, and surely did gain some knowedge of new things from experiencing the apocalypse.
I'm looking forward to seeing some savagery in the artistic style, heads on pikes by the gates of villiages and things like that!! This is WAR!! (not warhammer lol)
Are you suggesting that the vikings of real history would not have had "the opportunity, skill and knowledge" required to put spikes and human skulls on their armor? Indeed, as a previous poster pointed out, their knowledge and skill would have certainly prevented them from taking the opportunity to put spikes on their armor.
As for human skulls, I think other materials make far better force dampers without creating the shrapnel and gory vision blocking mess that would result when the enemy smashed one on your body. On pikes outside your keep and along roads as a warning to others, now that's something I can see happening. Although I'm not sure I want to see it in this game (very often).
I could definitely see myself mounting some TDD antlers on the wall in my home.
Woo! Almost as sexy as the Darkness Falls succubi, who I was forced to report to CSRs on various occasions after getting this emote:
The Succubus gives you a dirty look!
Rawr...but I was there to play a game.
Viking of real history don't have horns and spikes on their armor.
In fact most don't wear armor at all.
Armors were expensive, usually only the Thanes and Jarls can afford them.
Also, horns and spikes are impractical in real combat - you are more likely to pinch yourself than the opponent. That's why none of the real dark age armors actually have spikes. It has nothing to do with skills or savagery. Only armor that weren't actually being used in real-life have useless decorations and spikes, ie. display armor. Vikings are no more savage than Angle-Saxons or Celts or Romans - they are all mostly farmers in peacetime.
If you want to see what realistic vikings look like, watch the TV series Vikings on History Channel.
Loving then concept art. I hope that whatever the aesthetic of the actual models, that some of this dark menace makes it's way into the game. Absolutely loving the TDD concepts so far and I can't wait to see more.
The whole idea of a bit more of a "dark fae"/Unseelie look to the TDD is reassuring. I hope the Vikings and Arthurians are equally stylized (in their own ways, of course.) In light of this engine being ostensibly geared toward performance rather than flash, art direction is going to go a long way, and creativity in this vein will be paramount.
Can't wait for the 3d model!!
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
Ah, my bad then, I thought the horns were part of helms/circlets or such from the art, my mistake on that part (I do not have hte best eyesight anymore lol).
I can tell the concept artist are drawing from nature for them, lot of horns/crests look like Deer/Elk antlers and such and can help make that realm more unique with it's races.
Yea, I wasn't attacking it or anything, just offering my opinion and hope that we'll have lots of good options to make our own personal character look similar in style to how we would like through cusotmization/crafter armours and such. Everyone has different options on what they'd like and I resepct that and agree that for concet art it's always good to let people run with idea's (you never know whent hey might think of something just completely different then what you might "imagine" you want and it turns out to be something great you simply didn't think of and changes things).
Vikings were generally nomadic farmers and no more warlike than any other group of people's at that time. They were labeled as savages and barbarians because they were fairly illiterate, followed pagain beliefs, and due to their smaller nomadic lifestyle didn't have as much of a standing military type system.
It is correct that they didn't have horns and whatnot, but honestly reality is quite boring in comparison to the fantasy genre we all know and love.
While I enjoy a variety of armor deigns in games, a personal peeve of mine is when people pick and choose where they want their realism. You want realism, maybe you should play a game in which your character develops gangrene after wallowing through feces filled pond water while hunting for fish and has to have a leg lopped off leaving you unfit for battle, and then later dies due to infection.
Or maybe enjoy some imaginative armor design and stab some dragons in the face while shooting fireballs.
"Ahh this armor isn't realistic! I don't want spikes, and also, I shouldn't be able to run all day in full plate!"
Ok ok,
But which would you fear more on a battlefield?
A knight in shiny armor that looks brand new and polished,
OR
A warrior with spikes and or skulls on the tops of his shoulder pads, polished with some fresh blood?
I would choose option 2! It just looks cooler and more appealing to me I guess. But then again I always pick the "darkest" race.
♥ Midgard!
Historically spiked armour was never really a thing people wore into battle.
Mainly because spikes are more of a hinderance then help.
It allows blows on your armour to be direction toward your armour, rather then deflected away. As well the spikes also give people hand holds to grab you and pull /push you around.
You do not want to do this in real combat, a lot of historical middle ages combat is based around grappling (which many movies and things seem to ignore), a good trip/knockdown and it can be lights out for you.
That's why historically speaking many armours over the years were made to defelct blows and be smooth, not allowing for things to "catch" on it or people to grasp at things on your armour.
Now I am speaking of western style armour mainly. In Eastern cutlure with Japan for example they could wear crests on their helms and things.
I was in no way saying, "I don't think this, it must be changed!" or saying it wasn't realistic so it shouldn't be in. Was merely posting my personal preference for preferring more non-spikey/realisitc armour designs to be available to allow players to make their own choice.
With the game relying on player crafters to get equipment a good customization system for armour can help allow people to develop their own look/style of armour. Being able to mix/match armour pieces and depending on how far it goes other things as well. This can allow for both more "fantasy/mythological" style armour and a more realistic armour design.
A lot of real armour for example was quite beautiful, and many could be painted/decorated on top of the base design. Then you throw in things such as inlays, rivetting, embossing, armor coloring (Armour could come from the smith blue, black, steel/polished, etc).
Movies and things have made armour look quite barren compared to what it "could" look like, there are some few rare surving examples of armour that had paintings on them as well as places where soldiers could put decorations on them.
Here is an example, A "Black" sallet from around 1490 that was painted:
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=2700