So most cry foul of sub fees and now the alternative is taking shape.. Guess they'll be more crying.. But honestly what did you guys expect was going to happen, f2p games can't keep all the staff on no income unless switch to a yearly expansion cycle.. As some have said in earlier posts, they don't mind paying because it's less headache to get that item you've been wanting... With games getting more expensive and players not wanting sub etc, this model will become the dominant model until gamers wise up and start boycotting titles that does it.. There's also some of this on console games too so it's spreading slowly...
Yet people still try to deny that Turbine games, all of them except of course that dinosaur of a game, Asheron's Call, are pay-to-win games. They will never see anymore of my money and neither will any other MMO that tries to go that route.
It all pretty much started getting worse in cash shops with WoW charging RL money in their cash shop for the first buyable mount they have. Many other devs thought that if Blizzard does it that its alright. Well I stopped playing WoW back then partly due to that and still don't play that game to this day.
Many people claim this a lot, but I truly vote with my wallet and others should as well if they care about the future of video games.
Based on that practice, there are 4 dev companies I do not buy from due to their greedy nature. That being Turbine, EA, Blizzard, & SOE.
Hopefully the newer companies can learn from the mistakes of the others mentioned.
Originally posted by severius Could you imagine sitting at a table and the DM says $20 for the Vorpal Sword? That would've been one helluva lonely DM.
Are you on crack? Bribing the dm is a time honored tradition. Besides, that is not what is happening here, and attempting to color it as such is not helpful.
I am sorry but any game these days who cannot manage money, get in debt and decide cash shop is the option needs to burn in hell. There is no reason a game managed well and a reasonable sub fee cannot make it if people WORK HARD on keeping it updated and managed! Easy street is just to common anymore in 99.9% of mmo's being released and that quick money grab STILL FAILS in the end, *cough STO*
so what if you do not get 13 mil subs like wow or whatever who gives a rats *** make a good game for once people! I am willing to pay 15 bucks a month for quality but not 20-30 here and there every month for a turd of a game........we got facebook for that junk.
Yet people still try to deny that Turbine games, all of them except of course that dinosaur of a game, Asheron's Call, are pay-to-win games. They will never see anymore of my money and neither will any other MMO that tries to go that route.
It all pretty much started getting worse in cash shops with WoW charging RL money in their cash shop for the first buyable mount they have. Many other devs thought that if Blizzard does it that its alright. Well I stopped playing WoW back then partly due to that and still don't play that game to this day.
Many people claim this a lot, but I truly vote with my wallet and others should as well if they care about the future of video games.
Based on that practice, there are 4 dev companies I do not buy from due to their greedy nature. That being Turbine, EA, Blizzard, & SOE.
Hopefully the newer companies can learn from the mistakes of the others mentioned.
Actually in this case EQ2 are the one to blame. They were the one who came up first with the idea to charge you $20 for a mount in their cash shop. Then it caught up. At least Blizzard offer a lot of of the proceeds from pets/mounts to charities.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I am sorry but any game these days who cannot manage money, get in debt and decide cash shop is the option needs to burn in hell. There is no reason a game managed well and a reasonable sub fee cannot make it if people WORK HARD on keeping it updated and managed! Easy street is just to common anymore in 99.9% of mmo's being released and that quick money grab STILL FAILS in the end, *cough STO*
so what if you do not get 13 mil subs like wow or whatever who gives a rats *** make a good game for once people! I am willing to pay 15 bucks a month for quality but not 20-30 here and there every month for a turd of a game........we got facebook for that junk.
The problem with DDO is the core game sucks. No amount of good management will change that. I'm surprised anyone still plays it.
Actually in this case EQ2 are the one to blame. They were the one who came up first with the idea to charge you $20 for a mount in their cash shop. Then it caught up. At least Blizzard offer a lot of of the proceeds from pets/mounts to charities.
Yet people still try to deny that Turbine games, all of them except of course that dinosaur of a game, Asheron's Call, are pay-to-win games.
Sorry, but arguing that DDO is Pay2Win is a bit pointless, as it is not a competitive game...
Its kinda like moaning that buying a collectors edition of some single player game is Pay2Win be course you get special weapon not in the base game when you buy that. On one hand its kinda true, but on the other hand who cares, it only affects thier own game experince...
It is an eventuality that you will be able to do this in every game eventually. There is no reason NOT to allow players to exchange their work time (money) with play time (gear). As a developer you can't win... People will whine about those with more time, money, or whatever else they might be lacking. I'm all for any system that actually helps games make money so that the genre keeps on.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
Games using this kind of system is where the term "pay 2 win" came from. if you can buy gear from a cash shop that is not cosmetic or has very small stat boosts (say for wardrobe) the game is pay2win because they will slowly setup the game so that your forced to buy this stuff if u wanna get anywhere. Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine is a prime example, hardly anyone uses ingame dropped equiupment, or crafted stuff, its all cash shop stuff because quit frankly the cash shop gear blows away anything obtainable in the game.
Pay2win mmo's are not setup to keep players for long, they are setup to suck players in then suck as much money out of them as possible before they move on. I really wanna know just how stupid people are to fall for this, especally when so many of these p2w mmo's are pretty high up there on the shit-tier gameplay wise.
Then again this generation of gamers tend to be stupid anyway, when they think games today are great when they are horribly dumbed down compared to last generations game, even most recently bioshock infinite compared to bioshock 1 and 2, bioshock infinite took a pretty large step BACKWARDS in terms of gameplay. But since people are stupid enough to buy this garbage, they don't stop making them, they just keep dumbing them down more and more. In the future I bet all games are going to only need 1 button if they continue as they have been going.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Originally posted by Cirin It is an eventuality that you will be able to do this in every game eventually. There is no reason NOT to allow players to exchange their work time (money) with play time (gear). As a developer you can't win... People will whine about those with more time, money, or whatever else they might be lacking. I'm all for any system that actually helps games make money so that the genre keeps on.
They complain because it creates unfair disadvantages for people who have less disposable income, you need to look at it from both sides. Would you stay in a game where someone loaded with cash shop gear, dominates you in every single fight? because you can't afford the cash shop gear? I know I wouldn't because its just not any fun that way.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Originally posted by Torvaldr Originally posted by SiveriaGames using this kind of system is where the term "pay 2 win" came from. if you can buy gear from a cash shop that is not cosmetic or has very small stat boosts (say for wardrobe) the game is pay2win because they will slowly setup the game so that your forced to buy this stuff if u wanna get anywhere. Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine is a prime example, hardly anyone uses ingame dropped equiupment, or crafted stuff, its all cash shop stuff because quit frankly the cash shop gear blows away anything obtainable in the game.Pay2win mmo's are not setup to keep players for long, they are setup to suck players in then suck as much money out of them as possible before they move on. I really wanna know just how stupid people are to fall for this, especally when so many of these p2w mmo's are pretty high up there on the shit-tier gameplay wise.Then again this generation of gamers tend to be stupid anyway, when they think games today are great when they are horribly dumbed down compared to last generations game, even most recently bioshock infinite compared to bioshock 1 and 2, bioshock infinite took a pretty large step BACKWARDS in terms of gameplay. But since people are stupid enough to buy this garbage, they don't stop making them, they just keep dumbing them down more and more. In the future I bet all games are going to only need 1 button if they continue as they have been going.
The gear comes from other players. It's players selling their gear for tokens bought with real money. LotRO players see the writing on the wall. It would probably be better if the items just existed in the cash shop, but this is worse.
Not much of what you said even applies here. These aren't churn based f2p games. These are niche Freemium games. Both DDO and LotRO mainly consist of long time dedicated players. Turbine is trying to generate additional revenue. A huge problem in this particular situation is that it will dramatically advantage a small portion of the playerbase at the expense of the rest.
How will it create an advantage? The items being sold are being sold by the players. There is no gear that is available only through the ASAH. The players who buy are either unlucky or lazy. It's a PvE focused game. What PvP there is, is completely voluntary and without any meaning. Any item on the ASAH can be earned, in quest, with either enough time or luck. The only way it provides an advantage is if you are a "Keeping up with the Jones" type player.
Not a fan of the shard exchange or astral shards in general so I don't use them. As long as it doesn't becomre mandatory I'm okay with it because so far it really doesn't effect me. The problem is Turbine tried this game as a subscription and it didn't work... now they are working on the second expansion since going f2p..... So if this is what Turbine has to do to be profitable then more power to them if it mean more game content. If the future content is bad or shards become mandatory I'll stop playing, pretty simple.
Comments
Yet people still try to deny that Turbine games, all of them except of course that dinosaur of a game, Asheron's Call, are pay-to-win games. They will never see anymore of my money and neither will any other MMO that tries to go that route.
It all pretty much started getting worse in cash shops with WoW charging RL money in their cash shop for the first buyable mount they have. Many other devs thought that if Blizzard does it that its alright. Well I stopped playing WoW back then partly due to that and still don't play that game to this day.
Many people claim this a lot, but I truly vote with my wallet and others should as well if they care about the future of video games.
Based on that practice, there are 4 dev companies I do not buy from due to their greedy nature. That being Turbine, EA, Blizzard, & SOE.
Hopefully the newer companies can learn from the mistakes of the others mentioned.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Are you on crack? Bribing the dm is a time honored tradition. Besides, that is not what is happening here, and attempting to color it as such is not helpful.
http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/
Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!
Interesting So if your scratching DDO off your list of games to never play a again that means you now plan on playing it? Hahaha.
I am sorry but any game these days who cannot manage money, get in debt and decide cash shop is the option needs to burn in hell. There is no reason a game managed well and a reasonable sub fee cannot make it if people WORK HARD on keeping it updated and managed! Easy street is just to common anymore in 99.9% of mmo's being released and that quick money grab STILL FAILS in the end, *cough STO*
so what if you do not get 13 mil subs like wow or whatever who gives a rats *** make a good game for once people! I am willing to pay 15 bucks a month for quality but not 20-30 here and there every month for a turd of a game........we got facebook for that junk.
Actually in this case EQ2 are the one to blame. They were the one who came up first with the idea to charge you $20 for a mount in their cash shop. Then it caught up. At least Blizzard offer a lot of of the proceeds from pets/mounts to charities.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
The problem with DDO is the core game sucks. No amount of good management will change that. I'm surprised anyone still plays it.
SOE does virtual item charities too
http://www.anjelsyndicate.org/2011/12/07/soe-teams-up-with-childs-play-charity-again-this-year-get-cool-stuff/
when Blizzard did their sparkle pony mount -- zero went to charity
i cannot think of any blizzard mount where charity was involved
EQ2 fan sites
Sorry, but arguing that DDO is Pay2Win is a bit pointless, as it is not a competitive game...
Its kinda like moaning that buying a collectors edition of some single player game is Pay2Win be course you get special weapon not in the base game when you buy that. On one hand its kinda true, but on the other hand who cares, it only affects thier own game experince...
To each his taste I guess. I play this with my old D&D group friends and we enjoy the hell out of it.
There is no reason NOT to allow players to exchange their work time (money) with play time (gear).
As a developer you can't win... People will whine about those with more time, money, or whatever else they might be lacking. I'm all for any system that actually helps games make money so that the genre keeps on.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
Games using this kind of system is where the term "pay 2 win" came from. if you can buy gear from a cash shop that is not cosmetic or has very small stat boosts (say for wardrobe) the game is pay2win because they will slowly setup the game so that your forced to buy this stuff if u wanna get anywhere. Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine is a prime example, hardly anyone uses ingame dropped equiupment, or crafted stuff, its all cash shop stuff because quit frankly the cash shop gear blows away anything obtainable in the game.
Pay2win mmo's are not setup to keep players for long, they are setup to suck players in then suck as much money out of them as possible before they move on. I really wanna know just how stupid people are to fall for this, especally when so many of these p2w mmo's are pretty high up there on the shit-tier gameplay wise.
Then again this generation of gamers tend to be stupid anyway, when they think games today are great when they are horribly dumbed down compared to last generations game, even most recently bioshock infinite compared to bioshock 1 and 2, bioshock infinite took a pretty large step BACKWARDS in terms of gameplay. But since people are stupid enough to buy this garbage, they don't stop making them, they just keep dumbing them down more and more. In the future I bet all games are going to only need 1 button if they continue as they have been going.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
They complain because it creates unfair disadvantages for people who have less disposable income, you need to look at it from both sides. Would you stay in a game where someone loaded with cash shop gear, dominates you in every single fight? because you can't afford the cash shop gear? I know I wouldn't because its just not any fun that way.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
Not much of what you said even applies here. These aren't churn based f2p games. These are niche Freemium games. Both DDO and LotRO mainly consist of long time dedicated players. Turbine is trying to generate additional revenue. A huge problem in this particular situation is that it will dramatically advantage a small portion of the playerbase at the expense of the rest.
How will it create an advantage? The items being sold are being sold by the players. There is no gear that is available only through the ASAH. The players who buy are either unlucky or lazy. It's a PvE focused game. What PvP there is, is completely voluntary and without any meaning. Any item on the ASAH can be earned, in quest, with either enough time or luck. The only way it provides an advantage is if you are a "Keeping up with the Jones" type player.