B2P is evil. Anything with a 60$ upfront fee is evil.
Free is to intrusive.
Most sub game require you to buy the game first, so I don't see how sub can be fine if B2P is evil. Free would be fine if there were no such thing as greed when they get high enough player numbers.
Originally posted by bizoux86 Yeah, no. I disagree with the F2P model - everytime I try to play a f2p game it is full of gold spammers, trolls, awful communities, nonexistent CM's and usually they go P2Win in the end... I much prefer a subscription model in my games, I would rather pay the $15/month for a better overall game!
The only thing I hear spoken loudly is that the instant gratification/I want it now crowd is too poor and cheap to be able to afford $15/mo and would rather not invest anything into their MMO while expecting the same content and experience that P2P games provide. If you can't cough up $15/mo for hundreds of hours of gameplay imho you have bigger issues. Demanding that all games cater to cheapskates and freeloaders equate to every game activity attempting to funnel it's playerbase to the cash shop. Funneling players to cash shop does nothing to enhance the gaming experience and provides nothing but roadblocks.
Personally, I have a job and can afford to pay for a game I feel is worthy of my money, hell I'd pay $50/mo for a game if it was good enough. Just because you are poor and cheap doesn't mean the entire MMO industry has to change it's model for you, how about fixing the reason you can't afford $15/mo and get back to us?!
A huge percentage of the MMO industry has already changed.
And how is that turning out?
Last I checked, just about every F2P game is struggling to maintain subs. Please don't mention GW2 because that is the prime example of funneling players through the cash-shop limiting just about everything you do so you covert those gems or grab that new skin from the cash shop instead of being able to simply farm for things?
Thats not a reflection of f2p as many p2p games are struggling to maintain subs as well
Many ftp and p2p are doing just fine.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by bizoux86 Yeah, no. I disagree with the F2P model - everytime I try to play a f2p game it is full of gold spammers, trolls, awful communities, nonexistent CM's and usually they go P2Win in the end... I much prefer a subscription model in my games, I would rather pay the $15/month for a better overall game!
But, it's all subjective!
/sarcasm
I've noticed about the same level of gold spammers in p2p as f2p. So yes, perception is key.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
B2P is evil. Anything with a 60$ upfront fee is evil.
Free is to intrusive.
Most sub game require you to buy the game first, so I don't see how sub can be fine if B2P is evil. Free would be fine if there were no such thing as greed when they get high enough player numbers.
B2P is the middle ground between evil and evil.
Edit: typo
Just so you know: GW isn't B2P. It's B2P + Cash Shop.
The only thing I hear spoken loudly is that the instant gratification/I want it now crowd is too poor and cheap to be able to afford $15/mo and would rather not invest anything into their MMO while expecting the same content and experience that P2P games provide. If you can't cough up $15/mo for hundreds of hours of gameplay imho you have bigger issues. Demanding that all games cater to cheapskates and freeloaders equate to every game activity attempting to funnel it's playerbase to the cash shop. Funneling players to cash shop does nothing to enhance the gaming experience and provides nothing but roadblocks.
Personally, I have a job and can afford to pay for a game I feel is worthy of my money, hell I'd pay $50/mo for a game if it was good enough. Just because you are poor and cheap doesn't mean the entire MMO industry has to change it's model for you, how about fixing the reason you can't afford $15/mo and get back to us?!
A huge percentage of the MMO industry has already changed.
And how is that turning out?
Last I checked, just about every F2P game is struggling to maintain subs. Please don't mention GW2 because that is the prime example of funneling players through the cash-shop limiting just about everything you do so you covert those gems or grab that new skin from the cash shop instead of being able to simple farm for things?
GW2 is successful, profitable, produces new content as fas or faster than any other game. Its free to play, and you are not forced into using the cash shop - in fact as you say you can buy gems with gold or farm or both or neither, so where exactly is the 'funnelling' ?
example: I iave paid on average £2 a month on GW2 (bags at start) thats given me 682 hours of gameplay. If I payed wow for that same period of time I would have paid £60+ Spot the value for money. F2P and entirely optional cash shop goods is the future.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
The only thing I hear spoken loudly is that the instant gratification/I want it now crowd is too poor and cheap to be able to afford $15/mo and would rather not invest anything into their MMO while expecting the same content and experience that P2P games provide. If you can't cough up $15/mo for hundreds of hours of gameplay imho you have bigger issues. Demanding that all games cater to cheapskates and freeloaders equate to every game activity attempting to funnel it's playerbase to the cash shop. Funneling players to cash shop does nothing to enhance the gaming experience and provides nothing but roadblocks.
Personally, I have a job and can afford to pay for a game I feel is worthy of my money, hell I'd pay $50/mo for a game if it was good enough. Just because you are poor and cheap doesn't mean the entire MMO industry has to change it's model for you, how about fixing the reason you can't afford $15/mo and get back to us?!
A huge percentage of the MMO industry has already changed.
And how is that turning out?
Last I checked, just about every F2P game is struggling to maintain subs. Please don't mention GW2 because that is the prime example of funneling players through the cash-shop limiting just about everything you do so you covert those gems or grab that new skin from the cash shop instead of being able to simple farm for things?
There are more players playing MMORPGs than ever before in the history of MMORPGs.
And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.
The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....
"The market" being mostly kids that can't afford games?
Most of my peers, 25+ adults, would prefer to pay and sub for a game that has real support, less children, and great content.
Not that anything like that exists yet...but we're waiting.
F2P is the dominion of kids and freeloaders and has failed to produce anything better than most console games. On top of that, take away the sub and the income; the companies have to reduce staff support then you have to deal with that much more drama from the kids that are unpoliced. No thanks.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.
The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....
This....so much...this.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
"The market" being mostly kids that can't afford games?
Most of my peers, 25+ adults, would prefer to pay and sub for a game that has real support, less children, and great content.
Not that anything like that exists yet...but we're waiting.
F2P is the dominion of kids and freeloaders and has failed to produce anything better than most console games. On top of that, take away the sub and the income; the companies have to reduce staff support then you have to deal with that much more drama from the kids that are unpoliced. No thanks.
wow has one of the foulest communities out there and the average age is close to 30 I believe. Community and payment model are not related. Happiness of player base accounts for cummunity behaviour.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
The only thing I hear spoken loudly is that the instant gratification/I want it now crowd is too poor and cheap to be able to afford $15/mo and would rather not invest anything into their MMO while expecting the same content and experience that P2P games provide. If you can't cough up $15/mo for hundreds of hours of gameplay imho you have bigger issues. Demanding that all games cater to cheapskates and freeloaders equate to every game activity attempting to funnel it's playerbase to the cash shop. Funneling players to cash shop does nothing to enhance the gaming experience and provides nothing but roadblocks.
Personally, I have a job and can afford to pay for a game I feel is worthy of my money, hell I'd pay $50/mo for a game if it was good enough. Just because you are poor and cheap doesn't mean the entire MMO industry has to change it's model for you, how about fixing the reason you can't afford $15/mo and get back to us?!
A huge percentage of the MMO industry has already changed.
And how is that turning out?
Last I checked, just about every F2P game is struggling to maintain subs. Please don't mention GW2 because that is the prime example of funneling players through the cash-shop limiting just about everything you do so you covert those gems or grab that new skin from the cash shop instead of being able to simple farm for things?
There are more players playing MMORPGs than ever before in the history of MMORPGs.
And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.
The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....
Get what we pay for in f2p now means games just as deep as p2p, games with more content released and faster than p2p and great support via patches and innovations.
Sounds like a deal to me.
And people are still playing MMO's for years.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
GW2 is successful, profitable, produces new content as fas or faster than any other game. Its free to play, and you are not forced into using the cash shop - in fact as you say you can buy gems with gold or farm or both or nethier, so where exactly is the 'funnelling' ?
Bahhhhhhhhh!
New content?! That is completely laughable! Considering the great majority of the "new content" is for the most part temporary and taken away when the event is over. By definition, this new content is nothing but mini-games and the lack of true perminant content is the true issue.
In regards to funneling, how is magic find working out for you, why does that even exist? Well imho it exists because GW2 loot tables are constantly balanced to keep the cash shop profitable. Any game where I wonder, would I be spending 100's of hours farming this stupid skin if this game was p2p?
Rift at least during it's first two years, privided far more true updates than GW2 ever even dreamed of and the mojority of it was indeed perminant features of the game.
And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.
The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....
This....so much...this.
Name a mmorg that provides value for money for their SUB in comparison to EVE, GW2, GW1 (examples of good cash shop games)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
There are more players playing MMORPGs than ever before in the history of MMORPGs.
And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.
The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....
Your idea of what they are "supposed to be" isn't really relevant. The market certainly doesn't agree with you. There are only a handful of games left with P2P models (two of which I subscribe to). MMORPGs are moving away from P2P and into hybrid models and more people are playing them than ever before. It's just the way it is. It isn't destroying the scene and there are plenty of different games with plenty of different options.
The only thing I hear spoken loudly is that the instant gratification/I want it now crowd is too poor and cheap to be able to afford $15/mo and would rather not invest anything into their MMO while expecting the same content and experience that P2P games provide. If you can't cough up $15/mo for hundreds of hours of gameplay imho you have bigger issues. Demanding that all games cater to cheapskates and freeloaders equate to every game activity attempting to funnel it's playerbase to the cash shop. Funneling players to cash shop does nothing to enhance the gaming experience and provides nothing but roadblocks.
Personally, I have a job and can afford to pay for a game I feel is worthy of my money, hell I'd pay $50/mo for a game if it was good enough. Just because you are poor and cheap doesn't mean the entire MMO industry has to change it's model for you, how about fixing the reason you can't afford $15/mo and get back to us?!
A huge percentage of the MMO industry has already changed.
And how is that turning out?
Last I checked, just about every F2P game is struggling to maintain subs. Please don't mention GW2 because that is the prime example of funneling players through the cash-shop limiting just about everything you do so you covert those gems or grab that new skin from the cash shop instead of being able to simple farm for things?
GW2 is successful, profitable, produces new content as fas or faster than any other game. Its free to play, and you are not forced into using the cash shop - in fact as you say you can buy gems with gold or farm or both or neither, so where exactly is the 'funnelling' ?
example: I iave paid on average £2 a month on GW2 (bags at start) thats given me 682 hours of gameplay. If I payed wow for that same period of time I would have paid £60+ Spot the value for money. F2P and entirely optional cash shop goods is the future.
Well i am glad you spent only 2 bucks a month on GW2. But just imagine if everyone just thinks like that i wonder how poor Anet would be able to even pay salaries to its staff.
There is nothing wrong with spending a lot of money on game you enjoy. Because you are just doing your part in giving a long life to something you are enjoying.
F2P games generally end up costing more that sub based games to enjoy the entire game.
The B2P model hasn't been done a whole lot, but in my experience with GW2, it made them obssesive over gold spammers and also lead to them nerfing any decent way to make gold in the game to try and force people to purchase currency.
The BEST MMO's I've ever played were on a subscription. Everyone has paid the same amount, it's a level playing field, no item malls with pay to win options. It's a truly competitive platform. Developers get the funding they need, and the time to further develop the game instead of chasing gold spammers. Also, my immersion in a game is totally ruined when I have to bust out my credit card to buy things in game. In a virtual world I only want to think about virtual currency, I can play the bill paying game in real life.
I would'nt mind seeing some other B2P models other than GW2 and Secret World (which started sub), but I don't want to see how they work on some of my more anticipated upcoming games.
For now, sub is the way to go, devlopers just need to deliver a sub worthy game.
P.S.
Screw EA, who cares what they think. They are the spawn of Frankenstein. Grab your pitchforks!
Originally posted by Amana Edited the title just slightly to make it seem more like an outside paraphrase so people realize it.
Thanks, Amana.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.
The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....
This....so much...this.
Name a mmorg that provides value for money for their SUB in comparison to EVE, GW2, GW1 (examples of good cash shop games)
When you list the games you're playing as GW2, Diablo(seriously!?) and Rift(again...really!?) then obviously you won't see eye to eye. Although I don't play it currently WoW has much better value imo, EQ2 for their subs also.
GW2 has zero content and, as pointed out earlier, relies on crappy mini games that last a month to draw you in. The only reason I play it currently is because it's something that's entertaining for an hour before I'm dreadfully bored of it. I love the game itself but they can't seem to get their balancing down for pvp and it makes it fairly pointless to play for anything beyond the PvE aspect of it. I love how they wanted it to be an E-Sport and there's NO WAY that would be considered at this point.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.
The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....
This....so much...this.
Name a mmorg that provides value for money for their SUB in comparison to EVE, GW2, GW1 (examples of good cash shop games)
When you list the games you're playing as GW2, Diablo(seriously!?) and Rift(again...really!?) then obviously you won't see eye to eye. Although I don't play it currently WoW has much better value imo, EQ2 for their subs also.
GW2 has zero content and, as pointed out earlier, relies on crappy mini games that last a month to draw you in. The only reason I play it currently is because it's something that's entertaining for an hour before I'm dreadfully bored of it. I love the game itself but they can't seem to get their balancing down for pvp and it makes it fairly pointless to play for anything beyond the PvE aspect of it. I love how they wanted it to be an E-Sport and there's NO WAY that would be considered at this point.
Im talking value for money aka content per pound spent (regardless of personal favourites or attacks on a persons gaming history (odd)) WOW's content release is well know for being pitifully slow and certainly not £10 a month greater than GW2. For example, WOW April fools release = nada, GW2 is 3 zones. personal taste asside, Blizzard should be pumping out huge volumes of content that far exceeeds any other game to justify the extra money they take of you.
Sub does not = greater value for money as things stand in the markety currently - maybe it will change. If for exdample a mmorg came out with a sub of say £4 a month, then I would be tempted if it was good, thats competitive.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
I still like the term Freemium when speaking of MMOs because there seems to be a huge distinction between it and F2P.
Most previously sub games are now Freemium since they have both a sub option and free options. Of the major titles only Aion went completly F2P without restrictions (L2 as well?) and how did it do? It has seen two waves of "reduction" to NCWest and is a sliver on NCs quarterly report.
So where is the line between F2P and Freemium? The ones who still sub or the cost of the content that you get with a sub. Unless there are numbers showing the difference between sub revenue and CS revenue per game I'll conclude that F2P on it's own is a baaaad idea. As an option to a sub game? Great if they need the extra money and/or word of mouth. The only bad part to F2P in a sub game is the mandatory monetization that may make the game seem cheap to paying subs.
On a side note about EQ2: Other than Freeport all of the servers I have touched, especially Butcherblock , have good communities. You don't get the whole game for free however. Unless they changed it with the last race/class unlocks (Hunter time!) you can get to level 80 and have content through Sentinals Fate. That being said I'd still like to see another free or freemium game offer as much content as EQ2 up to level 80 .
And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.
The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....
This....so much...this.
Name a mmorg that provides value for money for their SUB in comparison to EVE, GW2, GW1 (examples of good cash shop games)
When you list the games you're playing as GW2, Diablo(seriously!?) and Rift(again...really!?) then obviously you won't see eye to eye. Although I don't play it currently WoW has much better value imo, EQ2 for their subs also.
GW2 has zero content and, as pointed out earlier, relies on crappy mini games that last a month to draw you in. The only reason I play it currently is because it's something that's entertaining for an hour before I'm dreadfully bored of it. I love the game itself but they can't seem to get their balancing down for pvp and it makes it fairly pointless to play for anything beyond the PvE aspect of it. I love how they wanted it to be an E-Sport and there's NO WAY that would be considered at this point.
Im talking value for money aka content per pound spent (regardless of personal favourites or attacks on a persons gaming history (odd)) WOW's content release is well know for being pitifully slow and certainly not £10 a month greater than GW2. For example, WOW April fools release = nada, GW2 is 3 zones. personal taste asside, Blizzard should be pumping out huge volumes of content that far exceeeds any other game to justify the extra money they take of you.
Sub does not = greater value for money as things stand in the markety currently - maybe it will change. If for exdample a mmorg came out with a sub of say £4 a month, then I would be tempted if it was good, thats competitive.
i preffer quality than quantiy when it comes to content.
btw you know what wow (and other sub games) gives you that gw2 (or other b2p or f2p) dont? stable community. not good or bad, but stable. i m playing wow and i m in a guild that almost every day i see and chat with same ppl. almost same happens server wide. in my gw2 and tera guilds, every time i log in i see other ppl. many new joined, many left, many have days to log. i hate that.
i love when i meet ppl i used to play with before some years ago. today i met again 2 kids i played back in BC. it was a nice feeling. i didnt play even a single hour. i just talk with them, just that.
i like f2p, but in games i dont spent much of my time or much effort. if i want to play serious and competitive, i ll go to a sub game. at least me
Comments
Most sub game require you to buy the game first, so I don't see how sub can be fine if B2P is evil. Free would be fine if there were no such thing as greed when they get high enough player numbers.
B2P is the middle ground between evil and evil.
Edit: typo
But, it's all subjective!
/sarcasm
Thats not a reflection of f2p as many p2p games are struggling to maintain subs as well
Many ftp and p2p are doing just fine.
I've noticed about the same level of gold spammers in p2p as f2p. So yes, perception is key.
Just so you know: GW isn't B2P. It's B2P + Cash Shop.
Ehh? you pay 50 to 60 bucks for sub games too. and on top of that 15 bucks every month. And you say B2P is evil? lol
GW2 is successful, profitable, produces new content as fas or faster than any other game. Its free to play, and you are not forced into using the cash shop - in fact as you say you can buy gems with gold or farm or both or neither, so where exactly is the 'funnelling' ?
example: I iave paid on average £2 a month on GW2 (bags at start) thats given me 682 hours of gameplay. If I payed wow for that same period of time I would have paid £60+ Spot the value for money. F2P and entirely optional cash shop goods is the future.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
And at the same time we have the least local player base in history and MMO"s which were originally made for long-term commitments measured in years has turned in to months if not days. People playing MMO's like single players games, consuming content then abandoning them isn't what MMO's are supposed to be about.
The funniest thing is that it is the definition of insanity "repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results". F2P and the crowd that supports it, is one of the driving factors that is ruining what MMO's were supposed to be. I truly believe nothing will change, AAA MMO's with actual deep content as well as long term support via patches and innovation will continue to be P2P and the others, you will get what you pay for....
"The market" being mostly kids that can't afford games?
Most of my peers, 25+ adults, would prefer to pay and sub for a game that has real support, less children, and great content.
Not that anything like that exists yet...but we're waiting.
F2P is the dominion of kids and freeloaders and has failed to produce anything better than most console games. On top of that, take away the sub and the income; the companies have to reduce staff support then you have to deal with that much more drama from the kids that are unpoliced. No thanks.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
This....so much...this.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
wow has one of the foulest communities out there and the average age is close to 30 I believe. Community and payment model are not related. Happiness of player base accounts for cummunity behaviour.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Get what we pay for in f2p now means games just as deep as p2p, games with more content released and faster than p2p and great support via patches and innovations.
Sounds like a deal to me.
And people are still playing MMO's for years.
Bahhhhhhhhh!
New content?! That is completely laughable! Considering the great majority of the "new content" is for the most part temporary and taken away when the event is over. By definition, this new content is nothing but mini-games and the lack of true perminant content is the true issue.
In regards to funneling, how is magic find working out for you, why does that even exist? Well imho it exists because GW2 loot tables are constantly balanced to keep the cash shop profitable. Any game where I wonder, would I be spending 100's of hours farming this stupid skin if this game was p2p?
Rift at least during it's first two years, privided far more true updates than GW2 ever even dreamed of and the mojority of it was indeed perminant features of the game.
Name a mmorg that provides value for money for their SUB in comparison to EVE, GW2, GW1 (examples of good cash shop games)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Your idea of what they are "supposed to be" isn't really relevant. The market certainly doesn't agree with you. There are only a handful of games left with P2P models (two of which I subscribe to). MMORPGs are moving away from P2P and into hybrid models and more people are playing them than ever before. It's just the way it is. It isn't destroying the scene and there are plenty of different games with plenty of different options.
Well i am glad you spent only 2 bucks a month on GW2. But just imagine if everyone just thinks like that i wonder how poor Anet would be able to even pay salaries to its staff.
There is nothing wrong with spending a lot of money on game you enjoy. Because you are just doing your part in giving a long life to something you are enjoying.
It costs lot of money to keep MMOS going.
F2P games generally end up costing more that sub based games to enjoy the entire game.
The B2P model hasn't been done a whole lot, but in my experience with GW2, it made them obssesive over gold spammers and also lead to them nerfing any decent way to make gold in the game to try and force people to purchase currency.
The BEST MMO's I've ever played were on a subscription. Everyone has paid the same amount, it's a level playing field, no item malls with pay to win options. It's a truly competitive platform. Developers get the funding they need, and the time to further develop the game instead of chasing gold spammers. Also, my immersion in a game is totally ruined when I have to bust out my credit card to buy things in game. In a virtual world I only want to think about virtual currency, I can play the bill paying game in real life.
I would'nt mind seeing some other B2P models other than GW2 and Secret World (which started sub), but I don't want to see how they work on some of my more anticipated upcoming games.
For now, sub is the way to go, devlopers just need to deliver a sub worthy game.
P.S.
Screw EA, who cares what they think. They are the spawn of Frankenstein. Grab your pitchforks!
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
Thanks, Amana.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
When you list the games you're playing as GW2, Diablo(seriously!?) and Rift(again...really!?) then obviously you won't see eye to eye. Although I don't play it currently WoW has much better value imo, EQ2 for their subs also.
GW2 has zero content and, as pointed out earlier, relies on crappy mini games that last a month to draw you in. The only reason I play it currently is because it's something that's entertaining for an hour before I'm dreadfully bored of it. I love the game itself but they can't seem to get their balancing down for pvp and it makes it fairly pointless to play for anything beyond the PvE aspect of it. I love how they wanted it to be an E-Sport and there's NO WAY that would be considered at this point.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
Im talking value for money aka content per pound spent (regardless of personal favourites or attacks on a persons gaming history (odd)) WOW's content release is well know for being pitifully slow and certainly not £10 a month greater than GW2. For example, WOW April fools release = nada, GW2 is 3 zones. personal taste asside, Blizzard should be pumping out huge volumes of content that far exceeeds any other game to justify the extra money they take of you.
Sub does not = greater value for money as things stand in the markety currently - maybe it will change. If for exdample a mmorg came out with a sub of say £4 a month, then I would be tempted if it was good, thats competitive.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Most previously sub games are now Freemium since they have both a sub option and free options. Of the major titles only Aion went completly F2P without restrictions (L2 as well?) and how did it do? It has seen two waves of "reduction" to NCWest and is a sliver on NCs quarterly report.
So where is the line between F2P and Freemium? The ones who still sub or the cost of the content that you get with a sub. Unless there are numbers showing the difference between sub revenue and CS revenue per game I'll conclude that F2P on it's own is a baaaad idea. As an option to a sub game? Great if they need the extra money and/or word of mouth. The only bad part to F2P in a sub game is the mandatory monetization that may make the game seem cheap to paying subs.
On a side note about EQ2:
Other than Freeport all of the servers I have touched, especially Butcherblock
Fine by me, I'll vote with my wallet and support P2P. I'll never buy anything and just hog up hard drive space on the F2P garbage.
That's not the definition of insantiy or even close. That is a bastardized version of a comment made by Albert Einstein.
i preffer quality than quantiy when it comes to content.
btw you know what wow (and other sub games) gives you that gw2 (or other b2p or f2p) dont? stable community. not good or bad, but stable. i m playing wow and i m in a guild that almost every day i see and chat with same ppl. almost same happens server wide. in my gw2 and tera guilds, every time i log in i see other ppl. many new joined, many left, many have days to log. i hate that.
i love when i meet ppl i used to play with before some years ago. today i met again 2 kids i played back in BC. it was a nice feeling. i didnt play even a single hour. i just talk with them, just that.
i like f2p, but in games i dont spent much of my time or much effort. if i want to play serious and competitive, i ll go to a sub game. at least me