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MMORPG removes negative posts about games on request of publishers. We have to stop this now!

taus01taus01 MunichPosts: 1,352Member
THIS IS NOT ABOUT GREED MONGER. This is about the fact that free speech got supressed.
We have to stop this now or this forum will be heavily censored and i think i speak for the majority that we do not want the game developers or publishers to censor our posts! If we do not act now this will become a standard practice.
Originally posted by Beatnik59We deserve a website that will protect its forums from baseless lawsuits, not destroy them out of fear of baseless lawsuits.  Heck, even SomethingAwful.com protects its forums from baseless lawsuits.  Because if you can't protect our forum posts when a producer decides, on a whim, that he doesn't like them, you have more or less surrendered your fiduciary responsibility to your users to their PR people.  I don't post here to serve their PR interests.  I post here to read and write the truth and honest opinions.
Here is the post by Bill Murphy, Managing Editor: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5646617#5646617
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by taus01

Why did the Greed Monger Forums get removed? Was this a request from Jason Appleton to remove the negative information posted about the game?

In case this hasn't been answered yet, yes.  He emailed me directly and asked us to remove the negative posts about the game.  He also hinted at taking legal action if we didn't remove the posts of our users, and we decided we didn't need a baseless lawsuit.  

If you want to blame someone for the removal of the game listing and forums, blame Jason Appleton.  But when someone threatens us with legal action, we can either a.) ignore it or b.) react with what we think is appropriate.  In Greed Monger's case, it's probably just better to igore its existence as a website.  

I wish the Greed Monger devs well, but I'm not too thrilled with how they handled the negativity our forum users tossed their way.  If they can't take the criticism and claims of trolls, they're in for a rude awakening in this industry.  

Maybe one day we'll re-add the game to our list, but that depends on whether or not our users are allowed to post about it without the site being under threat of legal recourse.

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

image
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Comments

  • bwinthehousebwinthehouse Belmont, CAPosts: 19Member
    THIS IS the people's SITE, WE PAY THE BILLS SO WE SAY WHAT WE WANT! 
  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,535Member Uncommon

    Eh... this is a private forum and the owner was being bullied by a developer with a power hardwood... If i was the one running the site i'd bounce the dweebs arse out faster then you can say fuddwad.

     

    They did not remove posts... they removed the entire game from their listings... Not the same thing.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,853Member Uncommon
    Plus the anti-Greed Monger thread here in this very section is still going without being closed down.
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

    This is old news.

     

    This site makes its money off these obnoxious huge ads on the side. If they actually critique MMOs with deep pockets, then they won't do business with this site.

    They already fired one writer because he gave SWTOR the score it deserved (4).

     

    Notice that if a game is indie, it gets a pretty solid, if not low review (in the 7s) but if a big AAA MMO comes along that's a pile of shit, it gets a 9?

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member
    Oh well, thats one game I will not be playing.
  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Leland, NCPosts: 3,275Member
    It sucks that they were forced to remove it but lets be a tad honest here.  The GM forum had become little more than for people to completely bash that team and the game.  There was zero constructive posts and I applaud the fact they no longer are represented on this site but the game is another DNL sham anyway.
  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member

    MMORPG did the right thing here, from a business standpoint.  If the Greed Monger devs asked to have the posts censored, and even hinted at a threat of litigation, then the smartest move was to remove the game completely from the website.  I would  have done the same in their position.

    For you kids out there who don't know, if you call a company and hint at litigation, many companies will immediately terminate the conversation, and/or send you to their legal counsel.  That's the real world.

    Greed Monger is shaping up to be a joke, and I say that as someone who had high-hopes and even threw some money into the Kickstarter.  That's life though, and I won't shed any tears over it.  You won't hear me shilling for them, that's for sure, and the CEO sounds like a real douche so far, in my opinion.  He's building his company a nice PR nightmare.

    I call people like him "The Sales Prevention Team".

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,535Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    This is old news.

     

    This site makes its money off these obnoxious huge ads on the side. If they actually critique MMOs with deep pockets, then they won't do business with this site.

    They already fired one writer because he gave SWTOR the score it deserved (4).

     

    Notice that if a game is indie, it gets a pretty solid, if not low review (in the 7s) but if a big AAA MMO comes along that's a pile of shit, it gets a 9?

    Well that is life for you... What are you going to do about it?

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,767Member Uncommon

    MMORPG didn't want to deal with potential of a lawsuit.  They also didn't want to deal with selectivly censoring posts about the game so they took the logical best way out and removed the entire game from the site.  I can't say I would have handled this much different.  MMORPG is under no obligation at all to fight the good fight by keeping that games forum up if they don't want to.  

    Oh and BTW.  Freedom of speech is exclusivily about the governments ability to limit what you can and can not say.  It doesn't apply to private companies and private properties at all.  There are other laws that affect that like anti decrimination ones but they are very limited in scope.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member
    Originally posted by udon

    MMORPG didn't want to deal with potential of a lawsuit.  They also didn't want to deal with selectivly censoring posts about the game so they took the logical best way out and removed the entire game from the site.  I can't say I would have handled this much different.  MMORPG is under no obligation at all to fight the good fight by keeping that games forum up if they don't want to.  

    Oh and BTW.  Freedom of speech is exclusivily about the governments ability to limit what you can and can not say.  It doesn't apply to private companies and private properties at all.  There are other laws that affect that like anti decrimination ones but they are very limited in scope.

    Aaaaaaaannnndddd......./thread!

     

    I support the site's decision and have also added Applegate (and the rest of his team by default) to my list of people who's games I will never try.

     

    Don't deal with asshats, simple.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • rawfoxrawfox HamburgPosts: 647Member Uncommon

    ibtl

     

    sadly.

    MMORPG.com turned to the dark side.

    It has become a game industry slave ..

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by rawfox

    ibtl

     

    sadly.

    MMORPG.com turned to the dark side.

    It has become a game industry slave ..

    This has nothing to do with what they do or don't do for ad money.  This was about the clowns at Greed Monger trying to censor you, and MMORPG making the decision to remove the game listing as a result.  If you want to blame someone, head on over to Greed Monger and send them a strongly worded letter.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,535Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rawfox

    ibtl

     

    sadly.

    MMORPG.com turned to the dark side.

    It has become a game industry slave ..

     

    Site fighting for your right to say what you want (within the rules fo the site)... You get upset and accuse them of cencoring...

     

    Good move sir/ma'm.. good move indeed.

  • taus01taus01 MunichPosts: 1,352Member
    Originally posted by udon

    MMORPG didn't want to deal with potential of a lawsuit.  They also didn't want to deal with selectivly censoring posts about the game so they took the logical best way out and removed the entire game from the site.  I can't say I would have handled this much different.  MMORPG is under no obligation at all to fight the good fight by keeping that games forum up if they don't want to.  

    Oh and BTW.  Freedom of speech is exclusivily about the governments ability to limit what you can and can not say.  It doesn't apply to private companies and private properties at all.  There are other laws that affect that like anti decrimination ones but they are very limited in scope.

    There is no lawsuit and there never will be one. No judge will give anyone an injunction based on forum posts by users. That is not going to happen.

     

    Oh and BTW: Freedom of speech

    It is a human right and has nothing to do with government or commercial law or companies or whatever you seem to have made up in your mind.  You my friend are disinformed or rather not informed at all.

    "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."

    [mod edit]

     

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Business is business and potential lawsuits are bad for business, regardless of who is in right or wrong. Attorneys charge exorbitant wads of cash to represent their clients, even just for the paperwork.

    If you don't like it, which I'm sure most here don't, punish the developer. If they want to censor free speech, censor their income.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • WereLlamaWereLlama Lubbock, TXPosts: 243Member

    Lawsuit vs a Forum?  Now thats weak.

    I applaud the efforts of mmorpg (yes, Im a fan!) to keep their doors open enough for some early/speculative conversation without risking themselves financially  by engaging with litigious early development teams.

    That being said, I hope the folks at GreedMonger change their mind and seek re-admittance to the MMORPG audiance.  

    We may be extremely critical but every now and then a gem of insight or creativity spawns here.

    -Blitz

  • expressoexpresso mePosts: 2,183Member Uncommon

    MMORPG.com could counter sue greedmonger as they have a screenshot from this website on their kickstarter page (was this with permissions I wonder?) 

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/appleton/greed-monger-a-crafting-focused-sandbox-mmorpg

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,853Member Uncommon
    OP, your premise is noble but what you are claiming did not happen, your title is incorrect.

    INSTEAD of removing certain posts MMMORPG.com removed the whole thing! This is worse for Appleton than removing just the negativity. You can still talk about the travesty of GM here in the Pub right?

    This thread is changing into something completely different than the OP and I'm sure some of you will cry "CENSORSHIP!!" when it's locked, and it will be... justly locked, but stop and think about what your mad at first. MMORPG.com removed the ability for censorship to happen without possible litigation by having you do it here.

    Mispl_ced R_ge
  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,535Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by udon

    MMORPG didn't want to deal with potential of a lawsuit.  They also didn't want to deal with selectivly censoring posts about the game so they took the logical best way out and removed the entire game from the site.  I can't say I would have handled this much different.  MMORPG is under no obligation at all to fight the good fight by keeping that games forum up if they don't want to.  

    Oh and BTW.  Freedom of speech is exclusivily about the governments ability to limit what you can and can not say.  It doesn't apply to private companies and private properties at all.  There are other laws that affect that like anti decrimination ones but they are very limited in scope.

    There is no lawsuit and there never will be one. No judge will give anyone an injunction based on forum posts by users. That is not going to happen.

     

    Oh and BTW: Freedom of speech

    It is a human right and has nothing to do with government or commercial law or companies or whatever you seem to have made up in your mind.  You my friend are disinformed or rather not informed at all.

    "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."

    You are a corporate brainwashed drone that thinks untouchable human rights can be taken away or restricted by governments or companies. I feel sad for you.

     

    Where is a facepalm meme when you need it.

     

    There is no such thing as freedom of speech within the private sphere. I have the right to censor you or evict you from my private property and there is nothing you can do about it. What i can not do is stop you from speaking in a public area... Also while freedom of speech might be a human right... it is not a law unless specificly writen in to the legal body.

     

    This forum is not  a public area.

  • taus01taus01 MunichPosts: 1,352Member
    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Business is business and potential lawsuits are bad for business, regardless of who is in right or wrong. Attorneys charge exorbitant wads of cash to represent their clients, even just for the paperwork.

    Just that in this case MMORPG would not even need a lawyer. Not until they get served with an injunction or cease and desist. And then they could take down the forums without ANY COST to them.

    I am willing to bet that no judge will give any developer an injunction based on forum posts by users. 

     

    I honestly don't know of any site or forum that does not stand up to these kind of threats. MMORPG is the first i saw that simply caved and removed content.

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • thecapitainethecapitaine West Chester, PAPosts: 401Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by udon

    MMORPG didn't want to deal with potential of a lawsuit.  They also didn't want to deal with selectivly censoring posts about the game so they took the logical best way out and removed the entire game from the site.  I can't say I would have handled this much different.  MMORPG is under no obligation at all to fight the good fight by keeping that games forum up if they don't want to.  

    Oh and BTW.  Freedom of speech is exclusivily about the governments ability to limit what you can and can not say.  It doesn't apply to private companies and private properties at all.  There are other laws that affect that like anti decrimination ones but they are very limited in scope.

    There is no lawsuit and there never will be one. No judge will give anyone an injunction based on forum posts by users. That is not going to happen.

     

    Oh and BTW: Freedom of speech

    It is a human right and has nothing to do with government or commercial law or companies or whatever you seem to have made up in your mind.  You my friend are disinformed or rather not informed at all.

    "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."

    You are a corporate brainwashed drone that thinks untouchable human rights can be taken away or restricted by governments or companies. I feel sad for you.

     

    Kim Jong Un would like to have a word with you.  In principle I agree but In practical terms, the only rights a person has are those they are able to enforce.  Which is why rule of law is such a big deal since it declares in black and white what rights its people possess.  Fact is, we have a few millennia of history to show that people in power can and do trample all over "untouchable human rights".

     

    On-topic, this was the right move for MMORPG.com to make with Greed Monger.  Even outspoken guys like Derek Smart know well-enough the boundaries that can be pushed and it sounds like Mr. Appleton pushed well beyond them by threatening a lawsuit.  The game's title is starting to look even more prophetically chosen as the days pass.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,778Member Uncommon

    They're not letting developers selectively remove negative posts while only leaving positive ones.  Rather, they removed the forum section entirely.

    There's not much risk that most game developers will decide to go that route, as game developers need the publicity.  People who never hear of your game never buy your game.  Even bad publicity sometimes beats no publicity; how many people played Evony, again?

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member
    Originally posted by expresso

    MMORPG.com could counter sue greedmonger as they have a screenshot from this website on their kickstarter page (was this with permissions I wonder?) 

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/appleton/greed-monger-a-crafting-focused-sandbox-mmorpg

    And spend tons of time and money hiring a legal team?

    Guys, this is a business and they don't want to do that unless it's necessary.

    Removing Forums > Expensive Lawsuit

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • Dren_UtogiDren_Utogi OuterSpacePosts: 1,708Member Uncommon
    mmorpg.com is based in Canada, so they don't follow American  constitution....

    reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by bwinthehouse
    THIS IS the people's SITE, WE PAY THE BILLS SO WE SAY WHAT WE WANT! 

     

    Are you willing to pay for the lawyers to counter that lawsuit?

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This discussion has been closed.