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[Interview] Shroud of the Avatar: Pulling Back the Curtain with Garriott

2

Comments

  • DalekThayDalekThay Bangor, MIPosts: 52Member
    Originally posted by Po_gg
    Originally posted by patlefort
    Originally posted by flizzer

    I never played any of the Ultima games, but reading about Shroud of the Avatar has got me interested. I looked at Ultimat 7, which many consider the best one ,but the graphics look so dated at this point.  Is it worth picking up Ultimata 9, which graphic-wise I can probalby handle?  I read some bad reviews but most of the talked about how lore breaking the story was and since I dont really know the entire story, not sure that matters to me at all.  Any thoughts?

    Ultima 9 is one of the worst game in existence.

    Lol, nice exaggeration.

    Let's remain objective, Ascension was the worst one in the original series. :)

    That's not an exaggeration. Ultima 9 is one of the biggest, most elaborate betrayals in the history of gaming and (paraphrased from one internet reviewer) a good candidate for the most botched finale to an epic series in the history of fiction.  Ultima 8 was bad, but it was at least playable & had a decent (if incomplete and rushed) narrative. Ultima 9 looked nice... and that was about it.

    Ultima 9 was a kick in the junk to fans of the series... but it was ultimately EA's fault more than anything.

    Edit: And the overland map I have mixed feelings about. It's not innovative in any way, but it's definitely a nod to the first five Ultima games, which used the same system. The graphics & such I'm not worried about, as it is just an extremely early pre-alpha prototype meant to show an approximation of what gameplay will be like.

  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Ul''dah, CAPosts: 1,544Member Uncommon

     

    I love the overworld map concept.  It's like an old school RPG meets Ultima Online.  Also like how you can play offline if you want and real estate is usually nice.

    When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    I like the overworld map concept too.  The combat looks like something I've evolved beyond, however.  Swing at each other and watch colored bars change length.. blah.  Obviously it could be fun but I won't know til I try it.
  • ironhelixironhelix fairfield, OHPosts: 448Member
    I know it's alpha and all, but that looks TERRIBLE. I'm fine with the structure of the game, with the overland map, but the implementation is garbage. I think Richard Garriott's ship has sailed.
  • jbombardjbombard SapporoPosts: 531Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JeroKane

    ... snip ...

    QFT!

    Why you think all these Ego trippers who call themselves heroes of the game industry can't find a single sane money investor anymore and are resorting to Kickstarter?

    I rest my case.

    I am not bad mouthing Kickstarter... as a lot of great stuff has come out of it.

    But lately it has become the new hideout of "Failed" Game Designers/directors! /shrug

    So backwards it isn't even funny.  The reason why people "resort" to kickstarter is because big game publishers have gotten to the point where they don't want innovation or new ideas if it isn't some form of rehash likely to appeal to the masses then they aren't going to pay for it.  The truth is big game publishers are stagnating the industry as a whole, and are slowly killing what games are about.

     

    Kickstarter allows a developer to see if there is a big enough market for a niche game to be profitable.  It also allows a developer to field an idea for something they feel has mass appeal, but big publishers aren't biting on the hook.  It isn't perfect, but then again if you look at the steaming pile of crap that most big game publishers have become it is a pretty damn good alternative.

     
     
  • usuckmmorpgcomusuckmmorpgcom c, KYPosts: 1,348Member
    This looks so much more interesting than CU. Not enough for me to throw money at it, but just more interesting.
  • achesomaachesoma Portland, ORPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    Honestly, game looks like it's made for the iPad. 

    image

  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member
    Really not feeling the overworld map thing.  But, I'm still interested.  Gonna keep an eye on this and see how it pans out.  Could end up being an awesome feature for an MMO.
  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    I pledged and can't wait to play it with friends.  I miss the old school rpg!
    30
  • LaserwolfLaserwolf Oklahoma City, OKPosts: 2,383Member

    I honestly thought EA was to blame for UO's downfall with Trammel. But if this is his baby and he offers up funding perks like unbreakable tools and equipment I have to wonder if Trammel wouldn't have come along anyway. 

    Oh well.

    image

  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by Soldarith

    QFT!

    Why you think all these Ego trippers who call themselves heroes of the game industry can't find a single sane money investor anymore and are resorting to Kickstarter?

    I rest my case.

    I am not bad mouthing Kickstarter... as a lot of great stuff has come out of it.

    But lately it has become the new hideout of "Failed" Game Designers/directors! /shrug

    what great stuff has come out of kickstarter?

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jbombard
    Originally posted by JeroKane

    ... snip ...

    QFT!

    Why you think all these Ego trippers who call themselves heroes of the game industry can't find a single sane money investor anymore and are resorting to Kickstarter?

    I rest my case.

    I am not bad mouthing Kickstarter... as a lot of great stuff has come out of it.

    But lately it has become the new hideout of "Failed" Game Designers/directors! /shrug

    So backwards it isn't even funny.  The reason why people "resort" to kickstarter is because big game publishers have gotten to the point where they don't want innovation or new ideas if it isn't some form of rehash likely to appeal to the masses then they aren't going to pay for it.  The truth is big game publishers are stagnating the industry as a whole, and are slowly killing what games are about.

     

    Kickstarter allows a developer to see if there is a big enough market for a niche game to be profitable.  It also allows a developer to field an idea for something they feel has mass appeal, but big publishers aren't biting on the hook.  It isn't perfect, but then again if you look at the steaming pile of crap that most big game publishers have become it is a pretty damn good alternative.

     
     

    Dude seriously!

    Richard Garriott was "god" for the NCSoft exec's years ago and had complete "FREE" reign and a huge budget on development of Tabula Rasa!

    And what did he do? It's getting a repeating old record...... but he botched it up "BIG TIME" !

    During the whole development he was more busy in getting his arse into Space and throwing fancy parties at his mansion, than keep track of development of the game itself!

    Even so worse that suddenly one and half year before launch he terminated current development, threw away everything and started all over! Wasted huge amounts of money from NCSoft.

    The whole failure of Tabula Rasa falls onto Richard Garriott himself and not the publisher, in this case NCSoft.

    It's always too easy to blame the publisher and with a company like EA it's often the case.

    But with both Mark Jacobs (now also on Kickstarter) and Richard Garriott... the failure of both Warhammer Online and Tabula Rasa lies completely with them!

    I have come to review my perspective on publishers somewhat lately and come to understand why they have become conservative!
    As giving these guys free reign sure as hell means they burn through all your money fast, without delivering anything substantial and almost guarantee of negative R.O.I. !
     
    Brad MacQuaid is another such inflated ego tripper that wasted huge amounts of money and ran his own company into the ground with Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.
     
    And how about Bioware and SW:TOR? Wanna blame that solely on EA as well?  I mean.... how much more money did Bioware need? They had the largest budget of any game in history and what did they deliver?
     
    I rest my case.
  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by muffins89
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by Soldarith

    QFT!

    Why you think all these Ego trippers who call themselves heroes of the game industry can't find a single sane money investor anymore and are resorting to Kickstarter?

    I rest my case.

    I am not bad mouthing Kickstarter... as a lot of great stuff has come out of it.

    But lately it has become the new hideout of "Failed" Game Designers/directors! /shrug

    what great stuff has come out of kickstarter?

    Kickstarter is not only used for MMO's my friend.

    A lot of interesting and inovative "physical" products have come out of Kickstarter.

    That was actually the whole idea behind Kickstarter... give (young) people with bright ideas and inventions, but not having the know how and means into getting funding a chance to bring their ideas (products) to life.

     

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DalekThay
    Originally posted by Po_gg
    Originally posted by patlefort

    Ultima 9 is one of the worst game in existence.

    Lol, nice exaggeration.

    Let's remain objective, Ascension was the worst one in the original series. :)

    That's not an exaggeration. Ultima 9 is one of the biggest, most elaborate betrayals in the history of gaming and (paraphrased from one internet reviewer) a good candidate for the most botched finale to an epic series in the history of fiction.  Ultima 8 was bad, but it was at least playable & had a decent (if incomplete and rushed) narrative. Ultima 9 looked nice... and that was about it.

    Ultima 9 was a kick in the junk to fans of the series... but it was ultimately EA's fault more than anything.

    Edit: And the overland map I have mixed feelings about. It's not innovative in any way, but it's definitely a nod to the first five Ultima games, which used the same system. The graphics & such I'm not worried about, as it is just an extremely early pre-alpha prototype meant to show an approximation of what gameplay will be like.

    I would never disagree a Dalek :) and I wrote the same, it was the worst in the series.

    But "one of the worst game in existence"? C'mon... there was even a blog a few years ago about collecting the worst pc games for the lolz, you'd be surprised what degree of junk are in existence among pc games...

    U IX was lame as the "finisher of an epic serie", but if you give it to someone who doesn't know a thing about the lore, s/he may find it an average / decent game.

  • jbombardjbombard SapporoPosts: 531Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by jbombard
    Originally posted by JeroKane

    ... snip ...

    QFT!

    Why you think all these Ego trippers who call themselves heroes of the game industry can't find a single sane money investor anymore and are resorting to Kickstarter?

    I rest my case.

    I am not bad mouthing Kickstarter... as a lot of great stuff has come out of it.

    But lately it has become the new hideout of "Failed" Game Designers/directors! /shrug

    So backwards it isn't even funny.  The reason why people "resort" to kickstarter is because big game publishers have gotten to the point where they don't want innovation or new ideas if it isn't some form of rehash likely to appeal to the masses then they aren't going to pay for it.  The truth is big game publishers are stagnating the industry as a whole, and are slowly killing what games are about.

     

    Kickstarter allows a developer to see if there is a big enough market for a niche game to be profitable.  It also allows a developer to field an idea for something they feel has mass appeal, but big publishers aren't biting on the hook.  It isn't perfect, but then again if you look at the steaming pile of crap that most big game publishers have become it is a pretty damn good alternative.

     
     

    Dude seriously!

    Richard Garriott was "god" for the NCSoft exec's years ago and had complete "FREE" reign and a huge budget on development of Tabula Rasa!

    And what did he do? It's getting a repeating old record...... but he botched it up "BIG TIME" !

    During the whole development he was more busy in getting his arse into Space and throwing fancy parties at his mansion, than keep track of development of the game itself!

    Even so worse that suddenly one and half year before launch he terminated current development, threw away everything and started all over! Wasted huge amounts of money from NCSoft.

    The whole failure of Tabula Rasa falls onto Richard Garriott himself and not the publisher, in this case NCSoft.

    It's always too easy to blame the publisher and with a company like EA it's often the case.

    But with both Mark Jacobs (now also on Kickstarter) and Richard Garriott... the failure of both Warhammer Online and Tabula Rasa lies completely with them!

    I have come to review my perspective on publishers somewhat lately and come to understand why they have become conservative!
    As giving these guys free reign sure as hell means they burn through all your money fast, without delivering anything substantial and almost guarantee of negative R.O.I. !
     
    Brad MacQuaid is another such inflated ego tripper that wasted huge amounts of money and ran his own company into the ground with Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.
     
    And how about Bioware and SW:TOR? Wanna blame that solely on EA as well?  I mean.... how much more money did Bioware need? They had the largest budget of any game in history and what did they deliver?
     
    I rest my case.

    Well, my post was purely about kickstarter so that reply doesn't seem very appropriate to what I posted.  But, I'll bite.

     

    Tabula Rasa was pretty much screwed from day one, the project was never at a point where things were going smoothly.  They were getting negative feedback from the publisher, because the game was originally targeted for Asia but the developers didn't know crap about designing games that Asians like to play.  After 2 years of failure they changed to targeting for western players and had very little time to get it ready.  Garriot knew it was a failure and admits it as such.  Yes he was responsible, but to pretend it was all on him is pretty silly if you know the full story.

     

    BioWare failed because they were inexperienced in making MMORPGs and their estimates for pretty much everything were way off.  So the problem was theirs.   EA could have doubled down and put more money in to fix the problem, which granted wasn't their fault, but regardless they were their customers who were getting shit on.  But instead we saw massive cuts, no new content and a quick cut and run to F2P.  Also Bioware is no longer Bioware since the doctors left in September.   Pretty much everyone minus Ohlen that made Bioware great has left, and although they won't say it publicly it all happened post EA.  

     

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    “Shroud is not just an MMO and not just a solo game; it falls somewhere in the middle.”

    MMO’s are solo games now, hopefully Garriott realizes that.

     

    “Richard explained that Shroud leverages your friends list and the power of social media so that you can connect in with your friends as well as their friends to build on a large group of people.”

    Oh dear, social media again, the must have add on to your MMO. Lets see good in game stuff, instead of coding for the out of game social media obsession.

     

    “The large scale map is there really for exploration and to support players who have less time to explore than the other players running around on the more direct map interface.”

    OK I am going to make a prediction. Players will take the easy route and just teleport around the map. You will only meet these players at quest points and never in the A to B parts of the game. If I can spot this now, then solo design is being built into the game at an early stage. That in turn means soloing is going to be very high on the games agenda. I am starting to get the impression that we are getting a lot of talk about a MMO with old values when soloing is going to take precedence once again.

     

    “So the quest system is built into the world itself. If you see wolves attacking the farm, you can fight them off and learn more from there.”

    There is nothing wrong with reading, quest text is not exactly arduous. Also this may mean that all quest locations will need to involve some sort of action to show you they are a quest location. That is going to give a weird look to the world.

     

    “It definitely gets more dangerous to venture out into the open during the nighttime.”

    Good to see, lets hope "Daytime SotA" software is not up an running anytime soon. Oh what's software you ask?  That's what apps are called that do not run on a mobile phone. :)

     

     

    As to concerns about TR, as you are not going to buy SotA until after it launches and you see reviews thats not an issue is it? Oh you are going to preorder? More fool you, never preorder anything.

  • jbombardjbombard SapporoPosts: 531Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scot

    ... snip ...

    As to concerns about TR, as you are not going to buy SotA until after it launches and you see reviews thats not an issue is it? Oh you are going to preorder? More fool you, never preorder anything.

    Agreed.  Wait for the reviews.  Also if there is no form of trial available it just goes down further on my list of things I may buy eventually as anything with a trial that I know I like will get my money first.

     

  • allendale5allendale5 kansas city, MOPosts: 124Member
    The environment graphics look good for alpha, the combat obviously needs work.  Reminds me of Sacred meets d3.  Nothing new here though, however, that seems to be the point of a nastalgia type game, although personally, I don't see any fun factor to this, even assuming the game gets drastic improvements over what the video shows.  We've all got the old games on our bookshelf, perfectly preserved in the box, and we can get them out and play them at will; I for one don't see the point of creating this.
  • VaultarVaultar adelaidePosts: 339Member

    Guess I am one of the few who appreciate the direction this game is taking. 

    Also, why do people assume this is alpha footage? Guys and girls...this is PROTOTYPE video. The bare playable version of the game that is shown to give you an idea of how the maps are going to work together. Alpha comes out in December 2013. Between now and at time, a lot can change and that is not even saying just how much the game can evolve between alpha and beta and between beta and release. 

     

     

    Looking forward to EQL and EQN.

  • garrettgarrett Posts: 261MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon
    Guys, as mentioned above, this video is an early PROTOTYPE.
     :p 
  • nodecafplznodecafplz Ohio, OHPosts: 1Member
    Recognizing this as "prototype," (and that I know little of graphics engines,) are there limitations in visual due to what he wants to include ingame? Is he free to work with mutiple choices or are there constraints besides time and money?
  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by garrett
    Guys, as mentioned above, this video is an early PROTOTYPE.

    Sorry but I asked before does no one feel like the "prototype" is a modded version of Mount & Blade?

    Just curious....

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon
    It might feel like a modded version of any fantasy game you know. Graphics and game ideas do the rounds all the time. But as to the code, they have not done that much yet, this is pre beta.
  • SiecefireSiecefire Vacaville, CAPosts: 23Member

    Wow....Richard, Richard, Richard.....

    First of all, stop mentioning Ultima....its the equivelent of still wearing your high school football team jacket when your 50.  The one thing I have to admit, he is brilliant about getting a lot of people to give him a lot of money for old ideas. 

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by garrett
    Guys, as mentioned above, this video is an early PROTOTYPE.

     Well.... all credit goes to Robert with his upcoming Star Citizen.... as his PROTOTYPE blows Richard Garriott's into oblivion.

    Hence why I have actually faith in Robert (who still has a clean track record) and pledged for him and avoid the jokes of the game industry (Richard Garriott, Mark Jacobs) like the plague!

    Both of these jokes have shown absolutely NOTHING! But already started up Kickstarter to beg for money!

    Hell, even the guys from Grimdawn had actually something to show for (actual high quality ingame gameplay footage), when they started Kickstarter.

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