Haha are you serious? You don't see the difference?
In a pre order, you're spending extra money on a game that is already finished. Content gets REMOVED from the game and put in as pre order packages and store exclusives, making you pay more money for a good that should be included in the base game.
You do realize that it is almost the same exact thing. Instead of them removing content they just havent added it yet. What is the difference when the end result is the same? The people that pre-order or in the case of KS contribute get something that other people who buy the game later on do not get. Same deal.
In a Kickstarter, THE GAME IS NOT YET MADE. Without the money from Kickstarter, the game DOESN'T EXIST and WILL NOT BE MADE. You are paying to produce a game that publishers won't touch, and you get a ton of extra perks usually.
I believe that most people understand how KS works. The OP was simply asking why is one more acceptable to people than the other. I believe the answer to that is that through KS people believe they are actually making a difference. That they are going to be in on the ground floor of something great. With a pre-order the game is already made (as this poster said) your money or lack of will not stop that game from launching. With KS they feel that they are doing more than just buying the game. They are buying in to an idea that will in time become a reality. People love those kind of things. To say "I believed and invested in an idea that came to life" It is human nature. Humans are very linear and with something like KS it is easy to see that progression. From the begining concepts, to the actual development, to the finished product.
How much their dollars will actually effect the design of the game is all speculation. If the game ever reaches that point where it will launch is all speculation. To some it is worth the risk to others it's a "fool and his money are soon parted"
Your mistaken with what a few might consider to be bad which doesn't make it bad, it just makes it that people do with their money what ever they feel like doing with it. I don't pre-order, but have nothing against those who do, same with kickstarter, which all best of luck who pledged on what ever game. In some cases I havn't seen/read enough to warant a pledge, some cases what I look for simply isn't on kickstarter.....yet...
Haha are you serious? You don't see the difference?
In a pre order, you're spending extra money on a game that is already finished. Content gets REMOVED from the game and put in as pre order packages and store exclusives, making you pay more money for a good that should be included in the base game.
In a Kickstarter, THE GAME IS NOT YET MADE. Without the money from Kickstarter, the game DOESN'T EXIST and WILL NOT BE MADE. You are paying to produce a game that publishers won't touch, and you get a ton of extra perks usually.
And with a Kickstarter the game may not be made even with your money. No guarantee at all.
Except for, you know, the legal contract that everyone has to sign and adhere to, or they get sued out the ass.
You paranoid people who don't seem to like seeing good unique games being made should really take 4 seconds to look at what kickstarter is before you tear it apart.
Originally posted by mmoguy43 Now you know what it is like to be an investor.
Yeah.
Isn't Kickstarter perfect for the gamer? Instead of 'suits' putting up money just to make money, it's left to gamers to invest in an idea they'd like to see become reality.
The problem is most game development NEED more money than they can get from Kickstarter - period. THink penny stocks and this is akin to Kickstarter.
Originally posted by Burntvet Both are stupid, it is only worse for KS, as the numbers tend to be bigger and at least for pre-ordering (which I will not ever be doing), there is a game, i.e. it exists. Throwing down hundreds of dollars or more for an MMO that might not ever come to be, and no recourse to reclaim that money if it doesn't is not something I could ever see myself doing. Call me crazy, but I actually want to get what I pay for, and I'll pay when I get it. So, at this point: Pre-order MMO - dumb, Pre-order MMO-LTS - really dumb, KS "donation" at a high level for a theoretical MMO - "stop eating the lead paint chips" time.
It's astounding how many people don't even understand the basic idea of Kickstarter.
You can't get "scammed" out of money. The person using Kickstarter is legally obligated to produce a product and use the money they get exactly for what they said they would. Jesus christ people.
Is he? so if the game doesn't turn out as adverstised during kickstarter annoucement what do you do? get your money back or sue the company?
If he cannot prove that all the money he got from Kickstarter went into funding the game (dev salaries, evidence of work, ect) then he's in deep shit. So yes, he is.
He can still churn out a bad game and not get in trouble, that's where the risk comes in, but they do have to spend the money on the game.
Haha are you serious? You don't see the difference?
In a pre order, you're spending extra money on a game that is already finished. Content gets REMOVED from the game and put in as pre order packages and store exclusives, making you pay more money for a good that should be included in the base game.
In a Kickstarter, THE GAME IS NOT YET MADE. Without the money from Kickstarter, the game DOESN'T EXIST and WILL NOT BE MADE. You are paying to produce a game that publishers won't touch, and you get a ton of extra perks usually.
And with a Kickstarter the game may not be made even with your money. No guarantee at all.
Except for, you know, the legal contract that everyone has to sign and adhere to, or they get sued out the ass.
You paranoid people who don't seem to like seeing good unique games being made should really take 4 seconds to look at what kickstarter is before you tear it apart.
Could you link to this contract which is legally binding? first time i am hearing of this.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by Burntvet Both are stupid, it is only worse for KS, as the numbers tend to be bigger and at least for pre-ordering (which I will not ever be doing), there is a game, i.e. it exists. Throwing down hundreds of dollars or more for an MMO that might not ever come to be, and no recourse to reclaim that money if it doesn't is not something I could ever see myself doing. Call me crazy, but I actually want to get what I pay for, and I'll pay when I get it. So, at this point: Pre-order MMO - dumb, Pre-order MMO-LTS - really dumb, KS "donation" at a high level for a theoretical MMO - "stop eating the lead paint chips" time.
It's astounding how many people don't even understand the basic idea of Kickstarter.
You can't get "scammed" out of money. The person using Kickstarter is legally obligated to produce a product and use the money they get exactly for what they said they would. Jesus christ people.
Is he? so if the game doesn't turn out as adverstised during kickstarter annoucement what do you do? get your money back or sue the company?
If a company goes through kickstarter, and the game doesn't work out, they go to Chapter 11. Bankruptcy proceedings would decide how to liquidate their assets if there are assets to liquidate and kickstarter may be a part of that.
Beyond that I would highly doubt anythine more could be done.
edit - of course you could sue, but that doesn't guarantee anything.
Interesting to note when you actually pledge something now you get this message, "Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. It is the responsibility of the project creator to complete their project as promised, and the claims of this project are theirs alone."
Haha are you serious? You don't see the difference?
In a pre order, you're spending extra money on a game that is already finished. Content gets REMOVED from the game and put in as pre order packages and store exclusives, making you pay more money for a good that should be included in the base game.
In a Kickstarter, THE GAME IS NOT YET MADE. Without the money from Kickstarter, the game DOESN'T EXIST and WILL NOT BE MADE. You are paying to produce a game that publishers won't touch, and you get a ton of extra perks usually.
And with a Kickstarter the game may not be made even with your money. No guarantee at all.
Except for, you know, the legal contract that everyone has to sign and adhere to, or they get sued out the ass.
You paranoid people who don't seem to like seeing good unique games being made should really take 4 seconds to look at what kickstarter is before you tear it apart.
Could you link to this contract which is legally binding? first time i am hearing of this.
That's probably because you never bothered to find out what Kickstarter even is. And I'm not going to do your homework for you.
That's probably because you never bothered to find out what Kickstarter even is. And I'm not going to do your homework for you.
Well for that this contract that is signed by everyone has to exist first no?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I think its more based on if the Gamer is ready to dedicate him or her self to a game they expect to really be interesting to them. Like most things in life its a gamble. Remember every penny (Hopefully) goes back into making that game better thus making the gamer's experience more enjoyable.
All the successful kickstarters seem to be done by people who could go out and attract a lot of investors attention without having to milk potential players for extra $$$. Many if not all attract traditional investors while still milking players through kickstarter. You want to plunk down $500 bucks to "help a game get made", but I'm willing to bet those games are going to end up getting made one way or the other. There are some people with some great ideas out there that need kickstarter; and some taking advantage of it.
When these big kickstarter games finally start getting finalized, or six years later it is still being worked on, you are going to see a lot of QQ.
Originally posted by Burntvet Both are stupid, it is only worse for KS, as the numbers tend to be bigger and at least for pre-ordering (which I will not ever be doing), there is a game, i.e. it exists. Throwing down hundreds of dollars or more for an MMO that might not ever come to be, and no recourse to reclaim that money if it doesn't is not something I could ever see myself doing. Call me crazy, but I actually want to get what I pay for, and I'll pay when I get it. So, at this point: Pre-order MMO - dumb, Pre-order MMO-LTS - really dumb, KS "donation" at a high level for a theoretical MMO - "stop eating the lead paint chips" time.
It's astounding how many people don't even understand the basic idea of Kickstarter.
You can't get "scammed" out of money. The person using Kickstarter is legally obligated to produce a product and use the money they get exactly for what they said they would. Jesus christ people.
Is he? so if the game doesn't turn out as adverstised during kickstarter annoucement what do you do? get your money back or sue the company?
If a company goes through kickstarter, and the game doesn't work out, they go to Chapter 11. Bankruptcy proceedings would decide how to liquidate their assets if there are assets to liquidate and kickstarter may be a part of that.
Beyond that I would highly doubt anythine more could be done.
If they've spent the money on the development, they've held up their part of the bargain. That's why you have to be careful who you give money too. You CANNOT be scammed, but you CAN back someone who is incompetant. I've only backed well known tried and true developers before.
All the successful kickstarters seem to be done by people who could go out and attract a lot of investors attention without having to milk potential players for extra $$$. Many if not all attract traditional investors while still milking players through kickstarter. You want to plunk down $500 bucks to "help a game get made", but I'm willing to bet those games are going to end up getting made one way or the other.
You are 100% incorrect.
The big Kickstarter successes, like Wasteland 2 and such, were done through Kickstarter exactly because no publishers were interested. Brian Fargo tried to get Wasteland 2 made for FIVE YEARS before he tried Kickstarter, and NO ONE would back it.
The only big name Kickstarter I can think of that managed to attract additional investing AFTER a Kickstarer was Star Citizen, and they got backed only AFTER they saw the public interest in it. That game was NOT "going to get made anyway".
That's probably because you never bothered to find out what Kickstarter even is. And I'm not going to do your homework for you.
Well for that this contract that is signed by everyone has to exist first no?
There actually io a contract but no signatures. It's between Kickstarter and their clients. It's purely to protect Kickstarter and provides no protection for donors.
Exactly the point i was trying to make regarding this imaginary contract that is signed by everyone and makes the devs legaly liable to pledgers.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
That's probably because you never bothered to find out what Kickstarter even is. And I'm not going to do your homework for you.
Well for that this contract that is signed by everyone has to exist first no?
There actually io a contract but no signatures. It's between Kickstarter and their clients. It's purely to protect Kickstarter and provides no protection for donors.
Exactly the point i was trying to make regarding this imaginary contract that is signed by everyone and makes the devs legaly liable to pledgers.
Kickstarter's clients ARE the people who pledge money. If Kickstarter didn't ensure that people weren't getting scammed, people wouldn't use it, and then Kickstarter wouldn't make any money. There is a contract, and it gives a very strict outline of what is required from the developer.
Haha are you serious? You don't see the difference?
In a pre order, you're spending extra money on a game that is already finished. Content gets REMOVED from the game and put in as pre order packages and store exclusives, making you pay more money for a good that should be included in the base game.
In a Kickstarter, THE GAME IS NOT YET MADE. Without the money from Kickstarter, the game DOESN'T EXIST and WILL NOT BE MADE. You are paying to produce a game that publishers won't touch, and you get a ton of extra perks usually.
And with a Kickstarter the game may not be made even with your money. No guarantee at all.
Except for, you know, the legal contract that everyone has to sign and adhere to, or they get sued out the ass.
You paranoid people who don't seem to like seeing good unique games being made should really take 4 seconds to look at what kickstarter is before you tear it apart.
Sure you can sue them...after hundreds of hours of lawyer fees trying to determine what constitutes a "good faith" attempt you might get your $50 ( or whatever) back.
I wonder how many pledgers on Kickstarter have ever complained about the price of a video game.
Pre-ordering digital copies of games is mostly retarded.
MMOs often offer early access, either through beta tests or an early starter program where you're paying disproportionate amounts of money assuming your game is subscription-based. It can actually be a good thing, giving you a better idea of what to expect and whether you are justified in raving like a loon on the internet about the next greatest game ever.
Offline games you're paying a little extra for often a minor content update, the cost is often proportional to the reward; cosmetic items, an extra weapon, or a painfully brief "bonus" level with no bearing on the game as a whole. All too often the additional weapons far outweigh standard weapons available to you in the game. Your Limited Edition ends up being a Limited Options.
Both are a matter for personal choice, as the actual concern of not being able to acquire a copy of your game (the original reason for pre-ordering) has all but disappeared. Even with a single game store in town, I can order online. I don't though, I pre-order titles selectively (Farcry 3 and Dead Space 3 being the last two) based in part upon previous experience with the franchise and their developers/publishers. The main reason is for the glorious 25% extra trade-in value, where it is possible to turn your deposit into a profit. The actual bonuses on offer in-game are unimportant.
Kickstarter is a joke. A nice experiment on alternative methods of publication, and further proof that sections of humanity are beyond help. Smart developers will tier their project to generate more cash, rather than meet their targets (which are hilariously short of what is actually required to provide a quality product) and create a game the people funding it want. Removing the publisher simply gives them the freedom to make their game, not yours. Of course, you can increase your pledge or give them free publicity on in the internet by hassling complete strangers to get the extra $500,000 for the content you actually want to see. This isn't always the case, but in every major project I've bothered to look at, it usually is.
Face facts, the best indie titles of the past few years have been self-funded, and/or made by individuals/tiny groups who managed to produce unique experiences without begging for money. Throwing cash at stuff rarely works, unless you're in a strip club. In any other case, you're just asking to be burned.
"Kickstarter, he adds, "changed the course of my life and how I operate." It seems obvious now, but "there's a huge gap between having an idea, and designing a product, and actually manufacturing something.""
"He adds, "This whole idea of crowdfunding is that you're getting rid of VC's quite often. It's not just about getting dumb money--you want smart money. And you lose that when you go through the crowdfunding route. You lose the smart money.""
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by Burntvet Both are stupid, it is only worse for KS, as the numbers tend to be bigger and at least for pre-ordering (which I will not ever be doing), there is a game, i.e. it exists. Throwing down hundreds of dollars or more for an MMO that might not ever come to be, and no recourse to reclaim that money if it doesn't is not something I could ever see myself doing. Call me crazy, but I actually want to get what I pay for, and I'll pay when I get it. So, at this point: Pre-order MMO - dumb, Pre-order MMO-LTS - really dumb, KS "donation" at a high level for a theoretical MMO - "stop eating the lead paint chips" time.
It's astounding how many people don't even understand the basic idea of Kickstarter.
You can't get "scammed" out of money. The person using Kickstarter is legally obligated to produce a product and use the money they get exactly for what they said they would. Jesus christ people.
Is he? so if the game doesn't turn out as adverstised during kickstarter annoucement what do you do? get your money back or sue the company?
People have tried to sue over failed projects where refunds were never issued. The creators just file for bankrupty and the backers get to bite the bullet.
Not to mention, how much in legal fees are you willing to spend to recoup a $20 donation?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Originally posted by mmoguy43 Now you know what it is like to be an investor.
Yeah.
Isn't Kickstarter perfect for the gamer? Instead of 'suits' putting up money just to make money, it's left to gamers to invest in an idea they'd like to see become reality.
The problem is most game development NEED more money than they can get from Kickstarter - period. THink penny stocks and this is akin to Kickstarter.
Originally posted by mmoguy43 Now you know what it is like to be an investor.
Yeah.
Isn't Kickstarter perfect for the gamer? Instead of 'suits' putting up money just to make money, it's left to gamers to invest in an idea they'd like to see become reality.
The problem is most game development NEED more money than they can get from Kickstarter - period. THink penny stocks and this is akin to Kickstarter.
As others said earlier in the thread, pre-ordering just used to be a way stores like Gamestop would reserve a copy of a game for you for usually a small upfront cost. ($5-$10) Now it's something totally different.
Nowadays you almost feel compelled to preorder so that you get the special store only perks that come with the game.
I preordered Aion to get in the beta. That turned out to be a mistake. I'll never preorder for early access again.
As far as kickstarters go, you're throwing money at an idea. There is no tangible item until it actually gets funded. Once it is funded, it's just like the stock market, to use an analogy from someone else. Your investment may or may not pan out. There's nothing stopping a developer from doing a complete 180 on their development stance once they have the money.
Kickstarter is to get rid of publisher, like getting rid of EA!
Kickstarter to make the developers know if there is interest in their game.
Kickstarter to get into alpha/beta for a game you are interested in, and maybe waited 10+ years to get developed. (like Elite Dangerous)
If you back a kickstarter you know that the game is not developed yet, so you thrust them with your money. Maybe the developer made some big memorable games in the past, so you know they will deliver and not let you down.
All in all you are a grown person who can make up his own mind what he is spending money on.
Comments
You do realize that it is almost the same exact thing. Instead of them removing content they just havent added it yet. What is the difference when the end result is the same? The people that pre-order or in the case of KS contribute get something that other people who buy the game later on do not get. Same deal.
I believe that most people understand how KS works. The OP was simply asking why is one more acceptable to people than the other. I believe the answer to that is that through KS people believe they are actually making a difference. That they are going to be in on the ground floor of something great. With a pre-order the game is already made (as this poster said) your money or lack of will not stop that game from launching. With KS they feel that they are doing more than just buying the game. They are buying in to an idea that will in time become a reality. People love those kind of things. To say "I believed and invested in an idea that came to life" It is human nature. Humans are very linear and with something like KS it is easy to see that progression. From the begining concepts, to the actual development, to the finished product.
How much their dollars will actually effect the design of the game is all speculation. If the game ever reaches that point where it will launch is all speculation. To some it is worth the risk to others it's a "fool and his money are soon parted"
Except for, you know, the legal contract that everyone has to sign and adhere to, or they get sued out the ass.
You paranoid people who don't seem to like seeing good unique games being made should really take 4 seconds to look at what kickstarter is before you tear it apart.
And those 41% that fail... no one payed a dime for. If a project fails, no one gets charged.
If he cannot prove that all the money he got from Kickstarter went into funding the game (dev salaries, evidence of work, ect) then he's in deep shit. So yes, he is.
He can still churn out a bad game and not get in trouble, that's where the risk comes in, but they do have to spend the money on the game.
Could you link to this contract which is legally binding? first time i am hearing of this.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
@Davis,
Not a chance.
If a company goes through kickstarter, and the game doesn't work out, they go to Chapter 11. Bankruptcy proceedings would decide how to liquidate their assets if there are assets to liquidate and kickstarter may be a part of that.
Beyond that I would highly doubt anythine more could be done.
edit - of course you could sue, but that doesn't guarantee anything.
Interesting to note when you actually pledge something now you get this message, "Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. It is the responsibility of the project creator to complete their project as promised, and the claims of this project are theirs alone."
interesting article here:
http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/when-kickstarter-investors-want-their-money-back.html
It doesn't ever say whether the guy got his money back or not. But the lawsuit did force quest to bankruptcy.
That's probably because you never bothered to find out what Kickstarter even is. And I'm not going to do your homework for you.
Well for that this contract that is signed by everyone has to exist first no?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I think its more based on if the Gamer is ready to dedicate him or her self to a game they expect to really be interesting to them. Like most things in life its a gamble. Remember every penny (Hopefully) goes back into making that game better thus making the gamer's experience more enjoyable.
All the successful kickstarters seem to be done by people who could go out and attract a lot of investors attention without having to milk potential players for extra $$$. Many if not all attract traditional investors while still milking players through kickstarter. You want to plunk down $500 bucks to "help a game get made", but I'm willing to bet those games are going to end up getting made one way or the other. There are some people with some great ideas out there that need kickstarter; and some taking advantage of it.
When these big kickstarter games finally start getting finalized, or six years later it is still being worked on, you are going to see a lot of QQ.
If they've spent the money on the development, they've held up their part of the bargain. That's why you have to be careful who you give money too. You CANNOT be scammed, but you CAN back someone who is incompetant. I've only backed well known tried and true developers before.
You are 100% incorrect.
The big Kickstarter successes, like Wasteland 2 and such, were done through Kickstarter exactly because no publishers were interested. Brian Fargo tried to get Wasteland 2 made for FIVE YEARS before he tried Kickstarter, and NO ONE would back it.
The only big name Kickstarter I can think of that managed to attract additional investing AFTER a Kickstarer was Star Citizen, and they got backed only AFTER they saw the public interest in it. That game was NOT "going to get made anyway".
Exactly the point i was trying to make regarding this imaginary contract that is signed by everyone and makes the devs legaly liable to pledgers.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Kickstarter's clients ARE the people who pledge money. If Kickstarter didn't ensure that people weren't getting scammed, people wouldn't use it, and then Kickstarter wouldn't make any money. There is a contract, and it gives a very strict outline of what is required from the developer.
Sure you can sue them...after hundreds of hours of lawyer fees trying to determine what constitutes a "good faith" attempt you might get your $50 ( or whatever) back.
I wonder how many pledgers on Kickstarter have ever complained about the price of a video game.
Pre-ordering digital copies of games is mostly retarded.
MMOs often offer early access, either through beta tests or an early starter program where you're paying disproportionate amounts of money assuming your game is subscription-based. It can actually be a good thing, giving you a better idea of what to expect and whether you are justified in raving like a loon on the internet about the next greatest game ever.
Offline games you're paying a little extra for often a minor content update, the cost is often proportional to the reward; cosmetic items, an extra weapon, or a painfully brief "bonus" level with no bearing on the game as a whole. All too often the additional weapons far outweigh standard weapons available to you in the game. Your Limited Edition ends up being a Limited Options.
Both are a matter for personal choice, as the actual concern of not being able to acquire a copy of your game (the original reason for pre-ordering) has all but disappeared. Even with a single game store in town, I can order online. I don't though, I pre-order titles selectively (Farcry 3 and Dead Space 3 being the last two) based in part upon previous experience with the franchise and their developers/publishers. The main reason is for the glorious 25% extra trade-in value, where it is possible to turn your deposit into a profit. The actual bonuses on offer in-game are unimportant.
Kickstarter is a joke. A nice experiment on alternative methods of publication, and further proof that sections of humanity are beyond help. Smart developers will tier their project to generate more cash, rather than meet their targets (which are hilariously short of what is actually required to provide a quality product) and create a game the people funding it want. Removing the publisher simply gives them the freedom to make their game, not yours. Of course, you can increase your pledge or give them free publicity on in the internet by hassling complete strangers to get the extra $500,000 for the content you actually want to see. This isn't always the case, but in every major project I've bothered to look at, it usually is.
Face facts, the best indie titles of the past few years have been self-funded, and/or made by individuals/tiny groups who managed to produce unique experiences without begging for money. Throwing cash at stuff rarely works, unless you're in a strip club. In any other case, you're just asking to be burned.
Other interesting quotes from here:
http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/when-kickstarter-investors-want-their-money-back.html
"Kickstarter, he adds, "changed the course of my life and how I operate." It seems obvious now, but "there's a huge gap between having an idea, and designing a product, and actually manufacturing something.""
"He adds, "This whole idea of crowdfunding is that you're getting rid of VC's quite often. It's not just about getting dumb money--you want smart money. And you lose that when you go through the crowdfunding route. You lose the smart money.""
People have tried to sue over failed projects where refunds were never issued. The creators just file for bankrupty and the backers get to bite the bullet.
Not to mention, how much in legal fees are you willing to spend to recoup a $20 donation?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Personally, I'd kickstart the legal fees.
That is EXACTLY what I said.
Except for the fact that, you know, without Kickstarter, the game you're paying for would not even exist in the first place...
I think both are pretty foolish.
As others said earlier in the thread, pre-ordering just used to be a way stores like Gamestop would reserve a copy of a game for you for usually a small upfront cost. ($5-$10) Now it's something totally different.
Nowadays you almost feel compelled to preorder so that you get the special store only perks that come with the game.
I preordered Aion to get in the beta. That turned out to be a mistake. I'll never preorder for early access again.
As far as kickstarters go, you're throwing money at an idea. There is no tangible item until it actually gets funded. Once it is funded, it's just like the stock market, to use an analogy from someone else. Your investment may or may not pan out. There's nothing stopping a developer from doing a complete 180 on their development stance once they have the money.
Kickstarter is to get rid of publisher, like getting rid of EA!
Kickstarter to make the developers know if there is interest in their game.
Kickstarter to get into alpha/beta for a game you are interested in, and maybe waited 10+ years to get developed. (like Elite Dangerous)
If you back a kickstarter you know that the game is not developed yet, so you thrust them with your money. Maybe the developer made some big memorable games in the past, so you know they will deliver and not let you down.
All in all you are a grown person who can make up his own mind what he is spending money on.