Most of the time only use 3rd person view to check out how your toon looks etc, all combat usually takes place in first person view, combat in 3rd person view is universally rubbish imo, so my prediction is that all the successful cyrodil PVP'ers will be using FPV, with 3rd person view relegated to the odd screenshot for effect, ie. posed.. for those that use the argument that 3rd person view increases your tactical awareness, simply not true, it just helps make up for a lack of it. pretty sure anyone who has ever played games like Planetside (either version) will understand where im coming from here.
Ridiculous! You can't put FPS games in this arguement, because they require accuracy, and accuracy comes best in first person. ESO goes not require accuracy, hit boxes are pretty big... you dont have to aim anywhere, just in the general direction.
[mod edit]
I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.
It occurs to me what the real problem is with accepting faction lock with ESO versus a game like DAoC.
In Dark Age, you had 3 distinct worlds based on historical myth: Hibernia (Celtic Lore), Albion (Arthurian Lore), and Midgard (Norse Lore). So going into the game, you picked your faction first, your lore and setting preference, and then chose your race amongst several choices based on that setting. Those were 3 distinct lore types, and all had been completely familiar to us since we'd grown up hearing those stories. Therefore, going into the game we knew which lore style we liked best.
With ESO, they're taking one world, one lore, and breaking it up into three Alliances. We don't have any prior familiarity with these alliances, so the decision is based entirely on what race we'd prefer to play. ZM now has to fight an uphill battle to convince us that our preferred race is in a cool alliance.
I think that's why so many people have issues with the faction lock. It's because they don't know much about the Aldmeri Dominion, but they know they've loved playing as a Khajiit, so now they feel stuck. I can actually understand that.
I still stand by faction lock being the best mechanic for this type of RvR game, and the lore they're usig to back it up, but now I think I understand the other side's complaints a bit better.
Thats' actually very well said. I'm still for a free open world, whether there is ffa pvp i another's faction or not but you have put a nice light on part of the problem.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Sentnl I hope half you realise that you're speaking nonsense...WoW came from the warcraft series, were they alike!? I couldn't build any barracks... Warhammer came from a miniature game, I couldn't roll any physical dice, oh my god! Swtor came from a fictional story, believe it or not... etc. THIS IS NOT THE SINGLE PLAYER GAME YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.Let it be ffs, let it become it's own entity, dont disturb it. If you're lucky enough to also get a beta key, you can come help send feedback on its great features.
Some change will occur. That is inevitable. Nobody will be The Nerevarine or Dohvakiin. Not one of *my* expectations.Your examples were nothing but petulant flame-bait. You took the most absurd things you could think of and tried to compare them to legitimate concerns. Are you really that stupid to believe what you wrote has any validity?
Oh sorry, I guess directly porting a single player game into an mmorpg makes perfect sense. *facepalm*My examples are legitamate, an mmorpg is a seperate genre, and games have evolved into mmorpgs from other sources.It's like, look... you have an eevee, and I give it a thunderstone. Sure, you're eevee was neat, and cool; However, now you don't have an eevee, it's something different, based on an eevee, and you will love it.
MMORPGs and SPRPGs are about as close "in genre" as one can get. The MAIN difference being multiple players. I am surprised I had to spell that out for you.
Your examples, which I underlined, so you would not get confused, are the petulant examples *I* was speaking of.
If *you* expected to build barracks in WoW or roll physical dice (which you could have done, to no affect on the game) in Warahhamer, yes, your complaints are stupid and unreasonable. Star Wars is fictional? What game is NOT? Sims Online? Second Life? What has that got to do with price of tea in China? Absolutely nothing.
Tell me how faction locked AvAvA makes this game an MMORPG. Would it NOT be one without it? Can an MMORPG exist that does not even include PvP of any kind? Is it really so unreasonable?
A player of TES single player games is not being crazy wanting to take that RPG experience and see it in a massively multiplayer online game. Now, if *I* expected to pause a battle and quaff a fistfull of healing and stamina potions, then you could call me crazy.
Again, *your* examples were petulant flamebait.
*I* know the game will not change. I do NOT expect it to. It is MUCH too late for that. But if (NOT when) it fails to live up to expectations, I would like the developers and publisher to have an idea as to one possibility. I truly hope that the AvAvA players will be happy here. The game was made specifically for them.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Just as DAoC players are expectign a full fledged 3 faction experience. If DAoC 2 was being made and they made it ffa pvp instead of 3 faction, do you think for a minute that DAoC players wouldn't have something to say about it?
ROFL! +1
Face meets mirror.
And mirror reflects an inferior cobbled together mess in both a ffa DAoC and a TES lobby game. You do know you want a TES lobby don't you?
But you say that based on what? No one has ever said they wanted a TES lobby game.
Really? Group with whomever from whichever faction and do dungeons and raids with them. Then go to the PvP instance and fight against them. Sounds like 2 totally different and incongrous games to me. That's what a lobby game is: a gateway to different games...it's Richard Garriot's new thing even...the way of the future donchaknow
Standing in Stormwind (or Dalaran or wherever) and Q'ing in different matchmaking services is the WOW lobby way...but that's not required. Just piecing together different chunks without a lot of thought for the whole thing is what defines a lobby game.
There is quite difference between standing in town and bringing up some game interface to automtically join you in a dungeon or a battlefield and grouping with people in an open world and and traveling to a contested area (cyrodill) and fighting for territory.
In lineage 2 you could literally be grouping with people from another clan and the next day find out that you are at war with them because of something that someone in their clan did and even sieging their castle on the weekend.
I see the point you are trying to make in that one moment you might be explorign together and the next you are fighting against them and then back to questing together, but that's not indicative of a lobby game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by rygard49 It occurs to me what the real problem is with accepting faction lock with ESO versus a game like DAoC.In Dark Age, you had 3 distinct worlds based on historical myth: Hibernia (Celtic Lore), Albion (Arthurian Lore), and Midgard (Norse Lore). So going into the game, you picked your faction first, your lore and setting preference, and then chose your race amongst several choices based on that setting. Those were 3 distinct lore types, and all had been completely familiar to us since we'd grown up hearing those stories. Therefore, going into the game we knew which lore style we liked best.With ESO, they're taking one world, one lore, and breaking it up into three Alliances. We don't have any prior familiarity with these alliances, so the decision is based entirely on what race we'd prefer to play. ZM now has to fight an uphill battle to convince us that our preferred race is in a cool alliance.I think that's why so many people have issues with the faction lock. It's because they don't know much about the Aldmeri Dominion, but they know they've loved playing as a Khajiit, so now they feel stuck. I can actually understand that.I still stand by faction lock being the best mechanic for this type of RvR game, and the lore they're usig to back it up, but now I think I understand the other side's complaints a bit better.
I, too, believe faction locks for AvAvA games is best. The Elder Scrolls just doesn't "fit" that setting, in my opinion.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I, too, believe faction locks for AvAvA games is best. The Elder Scrolls just doesn't "fit" that setting, in my opinion.
I'm still in the category of not understanding why three distinct factions doesn't "fit" in TES. I dont think anyone has really given a logical reason yet, or I missed it.
ESO is apparently set 1000 years before what we know. Tell me how races pairing off in three ways to dominate a central territory in this period of time makes no sense, or doesn't "fit"
I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.
LOL, like someone playing in FPV is just gonna stand still. The camera still moves the same, you can "orbit and straf" in FPV, the only disadvantage is you can't see anyone coming up from behind you. If you straf to the side out of LOS, they still know where you went, lol.
I'm willing to bet some hardcore PvPer's are going to be posting youtube videos of them owning in FPV just for the sake of doing it. There is a sight advantage of TPV but it's not as extreme as you make it out to be.
Heh, how you came to the conclusion that I was agreeing with you goes beyond my logical mind. Incentive will always override the path of least resistance. Incentives will encourage people to do the harder and or more tedious content in order to get the better and or greater quantities of rewards. You obviously don't understand the meaning.
Because what you decided to state yet again IS the path of least resistance. Whichever path that has the best work to reward ratio. It is all based on opportunity cost.
Heh, how you came to the conclusion that I was agreeing with you goes beyond my logical mind. Incentive will always override the path of least resistance. Incentives will encourage people to do the harder and or more tedious content in order to get the better and or greater quantities of rewards. You obviously don't understand the meaning.
Because what you decided to state yet again IS the path of least resistance. Whichever path that has the best work to reward ratio. It is all based on opportunity cost.
WoW's raids for example. There's a reason why a lot of people try to form raids to do regular raids instead of just doing lfr. For better loot(incentive). The path of least resistance is obviously not doing raids at all. The next path of least resistance is lfr. A step above that is normal raids.
People do not choose the path of least resistance just for the sake of it. People just don't want to have their time wasted and thats a logical thing for people to want. So if they have to spend 3 hours to get some "meh" reward. But if they spend 1 hour, they get a reward that's not as good, but not that much worse, its only logical they choose the 1 hour of work. Rewards have to be proportional to the work required otherwise they initial goal of being a reward just falls apart on itself.
It is hard for me to get excited about this game, or any new "MMO" coming out. Before games come out there are always the hype, the forum debates, and the general "this is the MMO that will be different!" posts. Yet when the games launch, they are the same old recycled garbage we have been fed for years but with a prettier skin. In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates. I hate to be negative, but given the track record of releases in the last few years, I find it hard to believe this game will be any different. I really, really, really hope I am wrong because I have been itching to play something that holds my attention for more than 4-6 weeks (GW2 I'm looking at you).
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey It is hard for me to get excited about this game, or any new "MMO" coming out. Before games come out there are always the hype, the forum debates, and the general "this is the MMO that will be different!" posts. Yet when the games launch, they are the same old recycled garbage we have been fed for years but with a prettier skin. In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates. I hate to be negative, but given the track record of releases in the last few years, I find it hard to believe this game will be any different. I really, really, really hope I am wrong because I have been itching to play something that holds my attention for more than 4-6 weeks (GW2 I'm looking at you).
You can say that about any and all MMOs.
And they all are different...some more than others. Sometimes different in a good way. Other times different in shitty ways.
This one is different because it's built around a 3-sided RvR system and not many MMORPGs have done that. It's also different in how you build your character to be unique by "leveling" class, armor and weapon types separately.
It's still early. We'll see if they can pull it all together into a quality package.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates.
I agree with half of what you say here.
The hype is always overblown and out of control. Always. There's not been a game released in the past 5 years that I feel has lived up to the unreal expectations built up by their media campaigns.
The debates are another topic, however. I think every MMO should be debated for two reasons.
An argument for or against certain ideas in a game needs to be tested and forged against opposing viewpoints in order to solidify it's validity. If everyone just said 'Okay' to every development idea, without debate, all we would ever get is crap and we would never know why.
This is the most important reason there is... We're bored and debating things on forums is fun.
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates.
I agree with half of what you say here.
The hype is always overblown and out of control. Always. There's not been a game released in the past 5 years that I feel has lived up to the unreal expectations built up by their media campaigns.
The debates are another topic, however. I think every MMO should be debated for two reasons.
An argument for or against certain ideas in a game needs to be tested and forged against opposing viewpoints in order to solidify it's validity. If everyone just said 'Okay' to every development idea, without debate, all we would ever get is crap and we would never know why.
This is the most important reason there is... We're bored and debating things on forums is fun.
I'm not implying the debating isn't fun or warrented. What I am saying is after all the debating is said and done, after all sides have tried to prove to the other side how wrong they are going to be, we end up getting a turd sandwich of a game most of the time anyways.
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey It is hard for me to get excited about this game, or any new "MMO" coming out. Before games come out there are always the hype, the forum debates, and the general "this is the MMO that will be different!" posts. Yet when the games launch, they are the same old recycled garbage we have been fed for years but with a prettier skin. In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates. I hate to be negative, but given the track record of releases in the last few years, I find it hard to believe this game will be any different. I really, really, really hope I am wrong because I have been itching to play something that holds my attention for more than 4-6 weeks (GW2 I'm looking at you).
You can say that about any and all MMOs.
And they all are different...some more than others. Sometimes different in a good way. Other times different in shitty ways.
This one is different because it's built around a 3-sided RvR system and not many MMORPGs have done that. It's also different in how you build your character to be unique by "leveling" class, armor and weapon types separately.
It's still early. We'll see if they can pull it all together into a quality package.
I'm sorry but the "differences" in new MMOs are few and far between. And no, the 3 sided RvR is not a new concept. Most new MMOs (despite their innovative "differences") mostly all amount to the same thing...something that is fun for a few weeks.
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates.
I agree with half of what you say here.
The hype is always overblown and out of control. Always. There's not been a game released in the past 5 years that I feel has lived up to the unreal expectations built up by their media campaigns.
The debates are another topic, however. I think every MMO should be debated for two reasons.
An argument for or against certain ideas in a game needs to be tested and forged against opposing viewpoints in order to solidify it's validity. If everyone just said 'Okay' to every development idea, without debate, all we would ever get is crap and we would never know why.
This is the most important reason there is... We're bored and debating things on forums is fun.
I'm not implying the debating isn't fun or warrented. What I am saying is after all the debating is said and done, after all sides have tried to prove to the other side how wrong they are going to be, we end up getting a turd sandwich of a game most of the time anyways.
That's totally subjective, though. Many people love (LOVE) some of the more recent AAA releases. No, they're not blockbuster titles like WoW was and will continue to be, but if you take WoW out of the equation entirely and compare these games to each other, you'll find most of them have comparable amounts of success.
My point about debating is that it doesn't matter what the end result of a game's release ends up being. The debate is a game unto itself and that's why we do it.
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates.
I agree with half of what you say here.
The hype is always overblown and out of control. Always. There's not been a game released in the past 5 years that I feel has lived up to the unreal expectations built up by their media campaigns.
The debates are another topic, however. I think every MMO should be debated for two reasons.
An argument for or against certain ideas in a game needs to be tested and forged against opposing viewpoints in order to solidify it's validity. If everyone just said 'Okay' to every development idea, without debate, all we would ever get is crap and we would never know why.
This is the most important reason there is... We're bored and debating things on forums is fun.
I'm not implying the debating isn't fun or warrented. What I am saying is after all the debating is said and done, after all sides have tried to prove to the other side how wrong they are going to be, we end up getting a turd sandwich of a game most of the time anyways.
That's totally subjective, though. Many people love (LOVE) some of the more recent AAA releases. No, they're not blockbuster titles like WoW was and will continue to be, but if you take WoW out of the equation entirely and compare these games to each other, you'll find most of them have comparable amounts of success.
My point about debating is that it doesn't matter what the end result of a game's release ends up being. The debate is a game unto itself and that's why we do it.
I can go with that. I think i am just tired of the disapointment (in what i enjoy in a game anyways) and it has turned me into a "sour stanley"(TM)
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey It is hard for me to get excited about this game, or any new "MMO" coming out. Before games come out there are always the hype, the forum debates, and the general "this is the MMO that will be different!" posts. Yet when the games launch, they are the same old recycled garbage we have been fed for years but with a prettier skin. In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates. I hate to be negative, but given the track record of releases in the last few years, I find it hard to believe this game will be any different. I really, really, really hope I am wrong because I have been itching to play something that holds my attention for more than 4-6 weeks (GW2 I'm looking at you).
You can say that about any and all MMOs.
And they all are different...some more than others. Sometimes different in a good way. Other times different in shitty ways.
This one is different because it's built around a 3-sided RvR system and not many MMORPGs have done that. It's also different in how you build your character to be unique by "leveling" class, armor and weapon types separately.
It's still early. We'll see if they can pull it all together into a quality package.
I'm sorry but the "differences" in new MMOs are few and far between. And no, the 3 sided RvR is not a new concept. Most new MMOs (despite their innovative "differences") mostly all amount to the same thing...something that is fun for a few weeks.
Oh I see... you want "never been done before" and engaging in the long term...we can always hope.
RPGs and even MMOs have been around long enough now that "firsts" are few and far between. Most everything is a variation on a theme. Usually variations on things that work.
You want something really, really new? Look at Scarlet Blade: no male characters and blatant sexpolitation MMO...
See, I don't equate new with "good." It's just as likely to be shit.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey It is hard for me to get excited about this game, or any new "MMO" coming out. Before games come out there are always the hype, the forum debates, and the general "this is the MMO that will be different!" posts. Yet when the games launch, they are the same old recycled garbage we have been fed for years but with a prettier skin. In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates. I hate to be negative, but given the track record of releases in the last few years, I find it hard to believe this game will be any different. I really, really, really hope I am wrong because I have been itching to play something that holds my attention for more than 4-6 weeks (GW2 I'm looking at you).
You can say that about any and all MMOs.
And they all are different...some more than others. Sometimes different in a good way. Other times different in shitty ways.
This one is different because it's built around a 3-sided RvR system and not many MMORPGs have done that. It's also different in how you build your character to be unique by "leveling" class, armor and weapon types separately.
It's still early. We'll see if they can pull it all together into a quality package.
I'm sorry but the "differences" in new MMOs are few and far between. And no, the 3 sided RvR is not a new concept. Most new MMOs (despite their innovative "differences") mostly all amount to the same thing...something that is fun for a few weeks.
Oh I see... you want "never been done before" and engaging in the long term...we can always hope.
RPGs and even MMOs have been around long enough now that "firsts" are few and far between. Most everything is a variation on a theme. Usually variations on things that work.
You want something really, really new? Look at Scarlet Blade: no male characters and blatant sexpolitation MMO...
See, I don't equate new with "good." It's just as likely to be shit.
Yes, I fail to see where expecting some innovation from this genre is a fault on my end. I would play Scarlet Blade but it might be uncomfortable playing long sessions with a constant boner.
I don't equate new to good either, that I can agree on for sure.
I'm sorry but the "differences" in new MMOs are few and far between. And no, the 3 sided RvR is not a new concept. Most new MMOs (despite their innovative "differences") mostly all amount to the same thing...something that is fun for a few weeks.
Oh I see... you want "never been done before" and engaging in the long term...we can always hope.
RPGs and even MMOs have been around long enough now that "firsts" are few and far between. Most everything is a variation on a theme. Usually variations on things that work.
You want something really, really new? Look at Scarlet Blade: no male characters and blatant sexpolitation MMO...
See, I don't equate new with "good." It's just as likely to be shit.
Yes, I fail to see where expecting some innovation from this genre is a fault on my end. I would play Scarlet Blade but it might be uncomfortable playing long sessions with a constant boner.
I don't equate new to good either, that I can agree on for sure.
Innovation is tough. The old saying goes that necessity is the mother of invention, and unfortunately there's not a whole lot of 'need' in the online gaming world. That's not to say that it's impossible to think up never before done features, but when you look at the 20-30 year history of gaming... there's not a lot left unexplored in terms of game design.
Add to that the fact that many of the thinkers in our world aren't really doers. I think people may have genius ideas all day long for how to successfully change the industry for the better, but they want someone else to implement those ideas. Just look at these forums for plenty of examples of that concept.
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey It is hard for me to get excited about this game, or any new "MMO" coming out. Before games come out there are always the hype, the forum debates, and the general "this is the MMO that will be different!" posts. Yet when the games launch, they are the same old recycled garbage we have been fed for years but with a prettier skin. In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates. I hate to be negative, but given the track record of releases in the last few years, I find it hard to believe this game will be any different. I really, really, really hope I am wrong because I have been itching to play something that holds my attention for more than 4-6 weeks (GW2 I'm looking at you).
You can say that about any and all MMOs.
And they all are different...some more than others. Sometimes different in a good way. Other times different in shitty ways.
This one is different because it's built around a 3-sided RvR system and not many MMORPGs have done that. It's also different in how you build your character to be unique by "leveling" class, armor and weapon types separately.
It's still early. We'll see if they can pull it all together into a quality package.
I'm sorry but the "differences" in new MMOs are few and far between. And no, the 3 sided RvR is not a new concept. Most new MMOs (despite their innovative "differences") mostly all amount to the same thing...something that is fun for a few weeks.
Oh I see... you want "never been done before" and engaging in the long term...we can always hope.
RPGs and even MMOs have been around long enough now that "firsts" are few and far between. Most everything is a variation on a theme. Usually variations on things that work.
You want something really, really new? Look at Scarlet Blade: no male characters and blatant sexpolitation MMO...
See, I don't equate new with "good." It's just as likely to be shit.
Yes, I fail to see where expecting some innovation from this genre is a fault on my end. I would play Scarlet Blade but it might be uncomfortable playing long sessions with a constant boner.
I don't equate new to good either, that I can agree on for sure.
Too much information
I read somewhere that one of the things you can buy in their cash shop is a no-clothes mod that apparently still leaves them their high heels lol.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey It is hard for me to get excited about this game, or any new "MMO" coming out. Before games come out there are always the hype, the forum debates, and the general "this is the MMO that will be different!" posts. Yet when the games launch, they are the same old recycled garbage we have been fed for years but with a prettier skin. In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates. I hate to be negative, but given the track record of releases in the last few years, I find it hard to believe this game will be any different. I really, really, really hope I am wrong because I have been itching to play something that holds my attention for more than 4-6 weeks (GW2 I'm looking at you).
You can say that about any and all MMOs.
And they all are different...some more than others. Sometimes different in a good way. Other times different in shitty ways.
This one is different because it's built around a 3-sided RvR system and not many MMORPGs have done that. It's also different in how you build your character to be unique by "leveling" class, armor and weapon types separately.
It's still early. We'll see if they can pull it all together into a quality package.
I'm sorry but the "differences" in new MMOs are few and far between. And no, the 3 sided RvR is not a new concept. Most new MMOs (despite their innovative "differences") mostly all amount to the same thing...something that is fun for a few weeks.
Oh I see... you want "never been done before" and engaging in the long term...we can always hope.
RPGs and even MMOs have been around long enough now that "firsts" are few and far between. Most everything is a variation on a theme. Usually variations on things that work.
You want something really, really new? Look at Scarlet Blade: no male characters and blatant sexpolitation MMO...
See, I don't equate new with "good." It's just as likely to be shit.
Yes, I fail to see where expecting some innovation from this genre is a fault on my end. I would play Scarlet Blade but it might be uncomfortable playing long sessions with a constant boner.
I don't equate new to good either, that I can agree on for sure.
Too much information
I read somewhere that one of the things you can buy in their cash shop is a no-clothes mod that apparently still leaves them their high heels lol.
Lol...just jokes man, I wouldn't touch that game with a 10 ft. pole (no pun intended).
This all boils down to Zenimax baiting the Sandbox crowd (who have been waiting a LOOOONG time for a quality sandbox MMO) with the name of Elder Scrolls and then switching to an entirely different appeal. There might be some people who are satisfied with the lore of Elder Scrolls being there, but the vast majority of people who play elder scrolls games do so for the sandbox-y aspect more than anything. Being race-locked into a faction at war with most of the other races and out of 2/3rds of the pve map is a terrible first impression to make on avid fans of the series.
This all boils down to Zenimax baiting the Sandbox crowd (who have been waiting a LOOOONG time for a quality sandbox MMO) with the name of Elder Scrolls and then switching to an entirely different appeal. There might be some people who are satisfied with the lore of Elder Scrolls being there, but the vast majority of people who play elder scrolls games do so for the sandbox-y aspect more than anything. Being race-locked into a faction at war with most of the other races and out of 2/3rds of the pve map is a terrible first impression to make on avid fans of the series.
I really wish you so called "true fans" would stop making terrible arguments and attempting to blame the studio with implying bait and switch tactics. While it is great for stirring up the mob its so far in left feild you are approaching conspiracy nuts.
What's wrong with my assessment? Elder Scrolls has been a signature sandbox game since Morrowind. Every person who has ever loved a sandbox game has played at least one of the Elder Scrolls games and is familiar with the name. Zenimax, however, has opted not to embrace the sandbox elements the series is so well known for in favor of Dark Age of Camelot style RvR. Now, whether the bait-and-switch was intentional or not is entirely a different matter, but it's still dangling the most well recognized IP of the genre in front of fans as the MMO they've been waiting for, and then not delivering what they want.
It's a serious dick move. The IP doesn't lend itself particularly well to the goals they've set out for themselves (I mean come on, I can't even play as an Imperial, my race of choice for both Oblivion and Skyrim) and the features they are promoting were draw enough for anyone even remotely interested in them. They didn't need an established IP to sweeten the deal, they would have bought it if it were as non-descript as orcs, elves and men all want to kill each other.
Comments
Ridiculous! You can't put FPS games in this arguement, because they require accuracy, and accuracy comes best in first person. ESO goes not require accuracy, hit boxes are pretty big... you dont have to aim anywhere, just in the general direction.
[mod edit]
I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.
Thats' actually very well said. I'm still for a free open world, whether there is ffa pvp i another's faction or not but you have put a nice light on part of the problem.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Your examples, which I underlined, so you would not get confused, are the petulant examples *I* was speaking of.
If *you* expected to build barracks in WoW or roll physical dice (which you could have done, to no affect on the game) in Warahhamer, yes, your complaints are stupid and unreasonable. Star Wars is fictional? What game is NOT? Sims Online? Second Life? What has that got to do with price of tea in China? Absolutely nothing.
Tell me how faction locked AvAvA makes this game an MMORPG. Would it NOT be one without it? Can an MMORPG exist that does not even include PvP of any kind? Is it really so unreasonable?
A player of TES single player games is not being crazy wanting to take that RPG experience and see it in a massively multiplayer online game. Now, if *I* expected to pause a battle and quaff a fistfull of healing and stamina potions, then you could call me crazy.
Again, *your* examples were petulant flamebait.
*I* know the game will not change. I do NOT expect it to. It is MUCH too late for that. But if (NOT when) it fails to live up to expectations, I would like the developers and publisher to have an idea as to one possibility. I truly hope that the AvAvA players will be happy here. The game was made specifically for them.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
There is quite difference between standing in town and bringing up some game interface to automtically join you in a dungeon or a battlefield and grouping with people in an open world and and traveling to a contested area (cyrodill) and fighting for territory.
In lineage 2 you could literally be grouping with people from another clan and the next day find out that you are at war with them because of something that someone in their clan did and even sieging their castle on the weekend.
I see the point you are trying to make in that one moment you might be explorign together and the next you are fighting against them and then back to questing together, but that's not indicative of a lobby game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I'm still in the category of not understanding why three distinct factions doesn't "fit" in TES. I dont think anyone has really given a logical reason yet, or I missed it.
ESO is apparently set 1000 years before what we know. Tell me how races pairing off in three ways to dominate a central territory in this period of time makes no sense, or doesn't "fit"
I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.
LOL, like someone playing in FPV is just gonna stand still. The camera still moves the same, you can "orbit and straf" in FPV, the only disadvantage is you can't see anyone coming up from behind you. If you straf to the side out of LOS, they still know where you went, lol.
I'm willing to bet some hardcore PvPer's are going to be posting youtube videos of them owning in FPV just for the sake of doing it. There is a sight advantage of TPV but it's not as extreme as you make it out to be.
Because what you decided to state yet again IS the path of least resistance. Whichever path that has the best work to reward ratio. It is all based on opportunity cost.
http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/
Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!
WoW's raids for example. There's a reason why a lot of people try to form raids to do regular raids instead of just doing lfr. For better loot(incentive). The path of least resistance is obviously not doing raids at all. The next path of least resistance is lfr. A step above that is normal raids.
People do not choose the path of least resistance just for the sake of it. People just don't want to have their time wasted and thats a logical thing for people to want. So if they have to spend 3 hours to get some "meh" reward. But if they spend 1 hour, they get a reward that's not as good, but not that much worse, its only logical they choose the 1 hour of work. Rewards have to be proportional to the work required otherwise they initial goal of being a reward just falls apart on itself.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
You can say that about any and all MMOs.
And they all are different...some more than others. Sometimes different in a good way. Other times different in shitty ways.
This one is different because it's built around a 3-sided RvR system and not many MMORPGs have done that. It's also different in how you build your character to be unique by "leveling" class, armor and weapon types separately.
It's still early. We'll see if they can pull it all together into a quality package.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I agree with half of what you say here.
The hype is always overblown and out of control. Always. There's not been a game released in the past 5 years that I feel has lived up to the unreal expectations built up by their media campaigns.
The debates are another topic, however. I think every MMO should be debated for two reasons.
I'm not implying the debating isn't fun or warrented. What I am saying is after all the debating is said and done, after all sides have tried to prove to the other side how wrong they are going to be, we end up getting a turd sandwich of a game most of the time anyways.
I'm sorry but the "differences" in new MMOs are few and far between. And no, the 3 sided RvR is not a new concept. Most new MMOs (despite their innovative "differences") mostly all amount to the same thing...something that is fun for a few weeks.
That's totally subjective, though. Many people love (LOVE) some of the more recent AAA releases. No, they're not blockbuster titles like WoW was and will continue to be, but if you take WoW out of the equation entirely and compare these games to each other, you'll find most of them have comparable amounts of success.
My point about debating is that it doesn't matter what the end result of a game's release ends up being. The debate is a game unto itself and that's why we do it.
I can go with that. I think i am just tired of the disapointment (in what i enjoy in a game anyways) and it has turned me into a "sour stanley"(TM)
Oh I see... you want "never been done before" and engaging in the long term...we can always hope.
RPGs and even MMOs have been around long enough now that "firsts" are few and far between. Most everything is a variation on a theme. Usually variations on things that work.
You want something really, really new? Look at Scarlet Blade: no male characters and blatant sexpolitation MMO...
See, I don't equate new with "good." It's just as likely to be shit.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Yes, I fail to see where expecting some innovation from this genre is a fault on my end. I would play Scarlet Blade but it might be uncomfortable playing long sessions with a constant boner.
I don't equate new to good either, that I can agree on for sure.
Innovation is tough. The old saying goes that necessity is the mother of invention, and unfortunately there's not a whole lot of 'need' in the online gaming world. That's not to say that it's impossible to think up never before done features, but when you look at the 20-30 year history of gaming... there's not a lot left unexplored in terms of game design.
Add to that the fact that many of the thinkers in our world aren't really doers. I think people may have genius ideas all day long for how to successfully change the industry for the better, but they want someone else to implement those ideas. Just look at these forums for plenty of examples of that concept.
Too much information
I read somewhere that one of the things you can buy in their cash shop is a no-clothes mod that apparently still leaves them their high heels lol.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Lol...just jokes man, I wouldn't touch that game with a 10 ft. pole (no pun intended).
This all boils down to Zenimax baiting the Sandbox crowd (who have been waiting a LOOOONG time for a quality sandbox MMO) with the name of Elder Scrolls and then switching to an entirely different appeal. There might be some people who are satisfied with the lore of Elder Scrolls being there, but the vast majority of people who play elder scrolls games do so for the sandbox-y aspect more than anything. Being race-locked into a faction at war with most of the other races and out of 2/3rds of the pve map is a terrible first impression to make on avid fans of the series.
I really wish you so called "true fans" would stop making terrible arguments and attempting to blame the studio with implying bait and switch tactics. While it is great for stirring up the mob its so far in left feild you are approaching conspiracy nuts.
http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/
Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!
What's wrong with my assessment? Elder Scrolls has been a signature sandbox game since Morrowind. Every person who has ever loved a sandbox game has played at least one of the Elder Scrolls games and is familiar with the name. Zenimax, however, has opted not to embrace the sandbox elements the series is so well known for in favor of Dark Age of Camelot style RvR. Now, whether the bait-and-switch was intentional or not is entirely a different matter, but it's still dangling the most well recognized IP of the genre in front of fans as the MMO they've been waiting for, and then not delivering what they want.
It's a serious dick move. The IP doesn't lend itself particularly well to the goals they've set out for themselves (I mean come on, I can't even play as an Imperial, my race of choice for both Oblivion and Skyrim) and the features they are promoting were draw enough for anyone even remotely interested in them. They didn't need an established IP to sweeten the deal, they would have bought it if it were as non-descript as orcs, elves and men all want to kill each other.