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Why so many Haters? MMORPG your great:)
Psycospank
Member UncommonPosts: 36
First off I would like to say how much I really enjoy visiting MMORPG, I am pleased to be a member of this site, and have been for a very long time. I don’t post much but I really enjoy the topics and for the most part the community reflects an unparalleled intelligence when comparing it to other gaming sites.
Now on to my topic, over the past year I have noticed a much more resounding hatred for MMO companies and unfortunately also toward the writers of this site. Almost every topic presented has a naysayer banter his or her views. Sharing your opinion is not a problem; this is important in any community and I for one am open and accepting of others and their differing opinions. What I am talking about is this ever present need to hate, bash or destroy the work of others.
Three things I have noticed, Firstly there are a few members who feel it is there right to criticise the writers of this site, even today with the articles on GW2's new April fools update someone (who will remain nameless) need to tear down the editor of all people (thankfully Bill gave a little back) about how it wasn't okay to have so many articles on the same topic. Yet all the articles where presented by different writers all with differing views and knowledge. Okay so GW2 isn’t your thing no problem don’t play it, perhaps you have got something you feel is important for others to know... no problem share, but why the hatred?
Another poster felt the need recently to point out a correlation between advertising and game reviews, so what if MMORPG is getting money from reviewing a game (its free to play anyway). Get over it move on.
These are just a couple but the list goes on from how terrible the videos are to how excited that the writers are about upcoming titles...man some people need to get a life. I am sure some of you will flame me for even saying something but honestly...Why the hate...The MMORPG crew form what I can see seem like a switched and cool group of guys and girls that love MMO's I mean that’s why I come here. How about you?
Now on to my second point bashing Developers, yes we know some gaming companies love money and yes they do the wrong things with some of our precious IP's but honestly get over yourselves...it comes down to two things if you don’t like it don’t play it...If you have an opinion about a game or an idea share and lets discuss it, but hating and bashing...what for? What are you achieving? One poster said "It’s my way of keeping them honest" interesting idea but I can’t for the life of me think why your harsh and often stupid comments are keeping anyone honest. Like it or don’t that’s your right, but why bag something out to keep it real?
Lastly Games... I think most games have their excellent points, I mean even the worst games need a collective group of people with skills and creative vision to create them so even in there darkest hour we should at least respect the artists the programmers and the teams of people that work hard on these projects. Yes I have had my moments with games where I have thought why did they do that? SWG is one of those moments for me but life changes share your thoughts, no worries.
So there’s my rant for the decade I hope you don’t "hate me" too much people, I have seen a trend toward negativity and not positivity here on the MMORPG community forums and that saddens me when I see so many good things here, I mean isn’t that why we all continue to come here and check it out?
Thanks MMORPG Team I for one appreciate what you do 
Comments
Doesn't matter if you're talking about a free to play game or not. If that's the direction the staff would be taking, we wouldn't be able to trust any of the articles here. Journalism and advertising are two very different things, but appearently it's ok for you if the borders between them are erased.
Okay valid point...but the point I am making is that some one felt the need go to the most extreme place, rather than share inteligently a view without the bashing. Perhaps my examples are not the best demonstrations of my point but it just feels like a good bashing is more important than a good disscussion.
Each persons views are important and at no point am I saying that people dont have the right to share there thoughts I am just wondering if there is a nicer way to share?
No sense in hating the game when the player obviously cheats.
So do you know the difference between an advertisement-supported promotional site and an independent critique site?
Hating on games has been an integral part of the mmorpg community (the community that plays mmorpgs, not this website per se) since the beginning. Games that are universally acknowledged as classics today, like DAoC and SWG, were massively hated on in their day. I only wish forums like the vnboards still existed so we could go back into the archives and witness how little has changed.
For the experienced gamer -- for the community who loves gaming enough to actually participate in a dialogue about it -- every game is about more than just brief respite from the difficulty of human existence. Each game represents a philosophy about gaming. When a game does well, the philosophy of gaming that that game represents does well also. Look at WoW, for example: its success ushered in a decade of themepark MMO design philosophy that we are only now beginning to recover from. For a player, like myself, who hates solo-oriented themepark design, WoW was a disaster for my gaming experience. It wasn't a matter of simply being able to cancel my WoW subscription (which I did almost immediately) and enjoying the peace of never thinking about it again. WoW's influence cast a shadow over the entire industry. I can't think of a single mmorpg made during the era that didn't try to immitate it to one degree or another. So the success of WoW really meant there was no avoiding WoW, no escaping it, short of giving up mmorpgs entirely. Though WoW was just a game, its design philosophy was a movement.
It is this realization that a game's relative success or failure has far reaching consequences, well beyond the game itself, that makes the whole affair of discussing games quite political really. Standing up against the games you hate becomes just as important as supporting the ones you love, because in your own little way, as a member of the community, you have a responsibility to try to steer the community away from design philosophies that you feel suck and toward ones that you think are great. Essentially, such community forums are as close as the gaming community comes to democracy.
The concern about big business is that it makes its decissions in a way more akin to a dictatorship than a democracy. And when they start paying editors of this or other sites to write good reviews -- editors who are really leaders in the gaming community -- that is clearly a form of corruption in the service of that dictatorship. The quality of a game should determine someones review, not how much they are being paid. And clearly if they are corrupt editors, the community has a right to know that so we can avoid being mislead by them.
I think perhaps you have missed my point, or perhaps you have reasserted my point. All of what you say is excellent well thought out well presented information about your view.
Passion for a topic is a good start to any persons views. I have no problem in some one having a discussion or even being harsh...Haulling a game/organisation over the coals, if you will, in the hope of refining it into a better product.
What I am really sharing is my disappointment with certain posters who seem to hate too much, seek to destroy not refine.
"hmmm there seems to be a great disturbance in the force" (sorry couldnt help myself, felt like it needed a wise insert. :P)
I had to do a double take on this one. Could you explain to me how the members of this site shouldn't have the right to criticise the writers of this site? Should we not have the right to state our opinions? Should we not invoke discussion? If people are tired of seeing articles regarding certain games, they don't have the right to voice their opinions?
Just because someone is a "writer"... or an "editor" doesn't give them immunity from critique.. quite the contrary. I'm not saying I agree with what happen above.. As, I'm not even sure what happened, but it's ok to critique or argue a point on a forum based site. It's kind of the point.
i agree, writer is a person like a critic is a person. there is no wrong or right what one can say and what one cannot. you may argue about experienced critics and comments versus unexperienced same o, and yet always i mean always someone disagrees and someone is offended and so on and so forth.
Sure; question, give your opinion, debate, discuss...say what you like within the scope of the forum, its not so much that someone doesnt have the right its more the thought that someone feels the right to go further than just question etc. No one is beyond reproach me included... As i stated before perhaps my examples are not great but my point isnt that people dont have the right to share but more that there seems to be more hate than discussion, this negativity rather than feedback or refinement.
People have the right to hate also and I dont think for one second that this post will change that as has been stated this in some ways is part of the culture.
It just feels a bit more like bashing than a productive discussion...
So far I must say that everyone has given me good reason to believe that most are here to discuss things and have given some great thought provoking responses...appreciate the insight.
I have a love-hate relationship with MMORPG.com, I must admit. The negativity surrounding what is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby is mind-boggling. I don't know if cycling enthusiasts bicker unendingly about the merits of one frame versus another, characterizing fans of either side in the worst possible terms in quite the same way we do here. When I go to CNN.com and look at the comments section below the articles, I know I'm in for some of the rudest, insensible, peurile arguments imaginable but I chalk that up to the divisive nature of politics, religion, etc. Thankfully, things don't descend nearly so far here but I'm regularly left wondering if the majority of posters really and actually like MMOs at all. So, that's the hate.
What I love is that if one cuts through the considerable noise, there's a lot of information and informed opinions circulating here. There are level-headed posters whom I may disagree with but whose opinion and judgment I ultimately respect. If the writers here seem to praise 9 out of every 10 new AAA games they can be partly forgiven for it, not because of a financial payoff happening in the backroom, but because they are real aficionados; people for whom every new game is a chance to experience the rush that only a nascent MMO can give. Skepticism about the ties between advertising and reviewing is healthy and does keep people honest, even on a small scale. It's damaging and demeaning when it becomes personal, though. The trend, again, to forget that there's a real person behind the screen and to address them as one would a fictitious NPC is one of the ugliest aspects of this site.
Many posters (and writers) here seem to be stuck in a timewarp. There's nothing wrong with cherishing old-school games and gameplay but philosophically they're stuck in the old paradigm as well, still believing that individual games succeed or fail based on the success or failure of other individual games. When there were three or four or five games calling themselves MMOs that may arguably have been the case but it's not that way now. We don't, as a community, benefit from creating little themepark and sandbox and FFA and RvRvR and hardcore and carebear ghettoes for ourselves. The genre transcends all these despite personal preferences.
There are tens of millions of people playing MMOs or their cousins and they've come far enough in 20 years that the only excuse a game has for failing is simply not being good enough. The overriding tendency to suggest that the reason the kind of game one wants to play isn't getting made is because of the existence of another kind of game is akin to suggesting that point-and-click adventures previously died out because of the success of RPGs instead of the inability for those adventure games to keep up with the changing tastes and demands of the audience they were trying to capture. It's a timewarped mentality not in touch with today that doesn't see that there is room for all types of games and that, eventually, someone will make that great long-sought game.
In order for the forums to truly remain hotbeds of discussion there has to be mutual respect, facts, opinions less colored by emotion, and a real desire for dialogue. Unfortunately, most threads are sent off the rails early on by an over-reliance on buzzwords, faulty perceptions, snark disguising itself as cleverness, and flatlanders doomed never to even conceive of a third dimension of perception or way of thinking. Not to say I don't value every poster, no matter how inflammatory (or wrong, lol) since all contributions help make this place what it is. I guess this is why I read far, far, far more than I post. There are pearls to be found here for certain but a certain amount of dredging is required to get to them.
Well if that is all you are saying . . . where do I sign up!
I would welcome you to the internet, but you are like one of the oldest members of this site! So I am a bit scratching my head here honestly. Forum trolls are a universal internet problem, and have been since its inception, not just a problem in the gaming community. A recent study even found that the kind of anonymity common to sites like this one wasn't even the source of the problem, as popularly thought. And yes, trolls are magnetically attracted to people in love with something, the more you love something -- in this case a game -- the more you look like a chocolate covered strawberry to a troll.
Man, people HAAAATED on SWG fanboys back in the day, I mean HAAAAATED on them.
Problem I have with writers reviewing games, is that they don't give an honest unbiased opinion, and they are normally based of 30 mins game play, for fear of not getting invited to review another game. I also have high suspicions that a lot of critics are paid to give better reviews than they deserve.
Of course they will deny any wrong doing and that their reviews are all honest and don't receive payments.
MMORPG are generally always behind on news and everything they post on the front page is normally old news, for a site that gets plenty of revenue they don't seem to be on the forefront of news in the industry.
Well said...this is where I am coming from, its healthy for people to question but its those pointed personal comments that just go a bit far for me.
Love the post Pshcyspank.
I think a lot of people forget that advertising is a way for a site to make money, and last time I checked the goal of any company is to make money. I personally see no problem in a gaming site taking money from a game company for advertising, as that is just standard business. I have had the pleasure of meeting a few main stream media people and for the most part they are no different than us. They are people who have some very strong opinions and they are not afraid to say them. The fact that the company they work for takes money in the form of advertising should not take away from their opinion or journalistic integrity.
In some ways it is human nature to reduce a large collection of people down to a single entity know as the developer. People love their games and we all have favorites. When a developer does something which can be perceived as a bad choice it is inevitable taken personally. It takes less energy to direct our anger towards a single entity so that anger usually gets directed at the developer. There may be thousands of valid reasons why a designer did what they did, but that is irrelevant since it was done just to piss us off. Opinions are great but constructive criticism is better. The articles that start with "I wish game x did this instead of that..." are far better reads than "This game sucks."
I agree that a lot of people get caught up in the minutia of the games and lose sight of the fact that they are playing a game. Too many times there are posts about a game mechanic or a bug or a design choice, but in the end if we are not having fun playing the game why do we continue to play the game. I've seen Einstein's quote used more than a few times, but in the end we are all guilty of it, we complain about something and yet we go back and continue to bang our heads against the wall.
very true... guess the old fart in me snuck out hehe
Yeah, but the problem is... feedback is often negative. There is no way to put a nice face on it. If my wife makes meatloaf again... and I give her the same "feedback" I gave last time, I will be single and have much more time to play games lol.
One HUGE issue I have with this site and with a lot of the opinions posted by users is this whole "negativity" thing. Not everything is this world is sunshine and rainbows.. I agree, some people take it too far and are penalized for it with temp bans and whatnot. Giving feedback is often going to involve being negative if there are aspects about the game in questions in which you do not like. However, like youself, I give no quarter to name calling or excessive tomfoolery when being negative around here!
In short.. I see where you're coming from but it looks like a very judgemental post regarding certain users and a bit of apple-polishing to the site.
You only noticed this in the past year? Really?
Seriously, the entire internet is like this, on every forum, on any subject.
On the one hand you are saying there is room for all types of games and that eventually the game some people are dreaming of will be made, but then in the same breath you admit that the type of game these same gamers are dreaming of isn't being made because it is dated and not in tune with the current tastes and demands of the community. Huh?
No, the truth is the success of some games, most notably WoW, have profoundly impacted the types of other games being made and how they are made. And while, yes, there are more games made today than in the past, the diversity of games is actually less because the success of WoW caused a massive rush to immitate its design philosophy. In the old days, the difference between SWG, Everquest, and Shadowbane were profound. Today, while there is definitely some diversity, many if not most of the games -- particularly if we are talking AAA titles -- are basically following the lead of some previous title, resulting in many clones and less diversity of game philosophy. For example, while there are a ton of Korean MMOs in the market -- certainly a lot to choose from -- they are all so similar to one enough we might just consider them just ONE game, maybe two. (Age of Wushu looks interesting . . . )
The reality is that when it comes to AAA games, they are so expensive to make these days that companies aren't willing to take huge risks. They want to stick with what they know (think) works. In that regard, there is actually less diversity. However, with the failure of SWTOR there has been a huge breaking up of the certainty over what works, offering a period of innovation and diversity similar to the 2nd gen mmorpgs. But that is precisely because one game, ONE GAME, failed. So I do think the success or failure of one game does make a huge difference to the rest of the market.
Anyway . . . kind of off topic here.
funny that you point that out.
I also thought "what, Pazzak? swoop racing maybe" ??
Nope, it was cash shop stuff. huh-hum..
like Darth Haters and TORWars, "spectacular, mindblowing news, news so exciting our heads will explode" turned out not to be a space sim announcement, but the announcement of the *release date* of the additional planet.
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
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The Return of ELITE !
Haha...more time for gaming you say hmmm.
All jokes aside the negativity thing can be the elephant in the room and we skip around it but often it needs to be shared and nutted out.
And your probably right I am a bit of a fan of MMORPG.com (apple polishing and all ;P) so there is a biase, but not without thought.
Well, there are several types of people.
Some are just "negative". That's who they are. In some cases they are angry disenfranchised people who are looking to lash out at something because of their own issues.
You then have people who have been burned one time too many. They see some of the issues in these games, the developers, the genre really, and when they hear the marketing pitch they assume (and in some cases rightly so) that it's another pitch for snake oil.
And then you have the isuse that this is a text based site. Meaning that just because someone says "x game is crap" they might not mean it to come off as an angry tirade but just a casual aside.
Also, as per another poster, I'm not convinced that this site is about taking kickbacks for a good review. There are players who strongly assert that if the review is good and it doesn't jive with what they believe or what is considered "common knowledge" on this site then somehow a bribe happened.
I have read many of the reviews on this site and they seem to be more close to genuine than not. Meaning, I get that these reviewers are earnest in their opinion. their spelling mistakes aside. However...
One caveat to that is that I can easily see someone saying "do the review and couch your language in such a way that it softens the negative".
Because it seems that there are members of this and other sites who take a rant for telling the truth and "being honest". You can completley lambaste something and not even break a sweat or seem like you are taking a sledgehammer to it.
Still, there is something to be said that some people are just blunt. that's who they are. And because everything is being done through text we are missing that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Sovrath, you are too reasonable for the internet.