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On Player Only Construction

DaizeddDaizedd Member Posts: 142
in Camelot Unchained

I've been thinking a bit about player controlled buildings and construction and how it could work in CU. The basic idea revolves around there being initially no structures outside the starting areas and players are entirely responsible for how and what they construct outside those areas. This idea relies on the fact that there is a real resource based economy and the most valuable resources are found out in the RvR areas. Resources could be from specific creatures (hides, bones, teeth etc.) which inhabit a certain area, mines (ore and coal), forests (wood, herbs) etc.

Players can construct either forts or individual houses, but there has to be some real added value to these constructions that make them worth the effort to build and defend. I am thinking of something way more natural then protecting a relic etc. If we look back as to why a fort was ever constructed in our own history, it was to protect a valuable area by providing a place where a defence could be mounted as well as having a view of the lay of the land in order to see any invading force from a distance.

In CU we could imagine that various areas would be of value due to the specific resources found there. If there is no fort, the resources are up for grabs by anyone who passes by. If players construct a fort however, a certain region around the fort will come under control of the realm who built that fort, after which only people from that realm can exploit the resources around it.

In addition, a fort would act as an early warning system and we could have it warn the realm if a large enough invading force (zerg) approaches. However, smaller forces might be able to approach without being detected and harass. How far the fort might detect an invading force approaching, and how much of the zone would be under its control in terms of resources, would be highly dependent on where the fort is built (ie it will see much further and control more of the zone if built on a hill rather then in the middle of a forest) and how big the fort was (over time a fort can be upgraded and control more of the zone).

The other positive to having a fort is that it would provide very limited instant travel. Exact numbers and over what time would need to be tested. As an example we could imagine that over a 2 hour period 50 people could instant travel to a small fort. The idea behind limited instant travel is to simulate that the fort is always guarded.

Who can start building a fort and who owns the fort has to be limited. I would suggest only guild leaders with guilds that have a certain minimum membership can start to set up an area for a fort. Smaller guilds can band together in alliances to meet the membership requirements. Ownership can also change, or new guilds can be added to the ownership deed for instance if a guild realises it bit off more than it can chew. Ownership would mean being able to make decisions on upkeep as well as having first dibs on instant travel before it is opened to the entire server. Other than that, the entire realm benefits from the zone control the fort provides and the entire realm might want to participate in its construction due to the resources that would come under the realm's control.

Player housing could work in a very similar fashion where a player house provides a much smaller zone of control for the realm and the owner could have personal limited instant travel to his home for himself and 2-8 friends depending on the size of the home to simulate it being inhabited 24/7. They would obviously be much more difficult to defend though. Many players may choose to build near each other or a fort rather than in the middle of nowhere.

What you guys think? Possible, or improbable?

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Comments

  • BowbowDAoCBowbowDAoC Member UncommonPosts: 472
    Originally posted by Daizedd

    I've been thinking a bit about player controlled buildings and construction and how it could work in CU. The basic idea revolves around there being initially no structures outside the starting areas and players are entirely responsible for how and what they construct outside those areas. This idea relies on the fact that there is a real resource based economy and the most valuable resources are found out in the RvR areas. Resources could be from specific creatures (hides, bones, teeth etc.) which inhabit a certain area, mines (ore and coal), forests (wood, herbs) etc.

    Players can construct either forts or individual houses, but there has to be some real added value to these constructions that make them worth the effort to build and defend. I am thinking of something way more natural then protecting a relic etc. If we look back as to why a fort was ever constructed in our own history, it was to protect a valuable area by providing a place where a defence could be mounted as well as having a view of the lay of the land in order to see any invading force from a distance.

    In CU we could imagine that various areas would be of value due to the specific resources found there. If there is no fort, the resources are up for grabs by anyone who passes by. If players construct a fort however, a certain region around the fort will come under control of the realm who built that fort, after which only people from that realm can exploit the resources around it.

    So far i totally agree. (although a smart stealther could go there unnoticed and grab some i.e. plants or flowers needed)

    In addition, a fort would act as an early warning system and we could have it warn the realm if a large enough invading force (zerg) approaches. However, smaller forces might be able to approach without being detected and harass. How far the fort might detect an invading force approaching, and how much of the zone would be under its control in terms of resources, would be highly dependent on where the fort is built (ie it will see much further and control more of the zone if built on a hill rather then in the middle of a forest) and how big the fort was (over time a fort can be upgraded and control more of the zone).

    I think that only players should be able to alert his realm if ennemies are approching, only when the keep is actually attacked that the guild owners of the keep should be alerted, then its up to them to alert the realm.

    The other positive to having a fort is that it would provide very limited instant travel. Exact numbers and over what time would need to be tested. As an example we could imagine that over a 2 hour period 50 people could instant travel to a small fort. The idea behind limited instant travel is to simulate that the fort is always guarded.

    No instant travel at all, especially not to go right inside a keep. you need to go to that keep fast ? RUN !

    Who can start building a fort and who owns the fort has to be limited. I would suggest only guild leaders with guilds that have a certain minimum membership can start to set up an area for a fort. Smaller guilds can band together in alliances to meet the membership requirements. Ownership can also change, or new guilds can be added to the ownership deed for instance if a guild realises it bit off more than it can chew. Ownership would mean being able to make decisions on upkeep as well as having first dibs on instant travel before it is opened to the entire server. Other than that, the entire realm benefits from the zone control the fort provides and the entire realm might want to participate in its construction due to the resources that would come under the realm's control.

    A bit too elitist, gives some advantages to bigger guilds, wich is something MJ wouldnt allow anyways. But constructing any buildings that are not houses or small shops (i.e. keeps. fort, 'milegates" etc.) should be somehow "controlled". it would be very bad if a "stupid" crafter decides on his own to build a keep somewhere totally useless, annoying. Maybe an approval of i.e. 10 guild leaders before the construction of those buildings can start. (quick idea only)

    Player housing could work in a very similar fashion where a player house provides a much smaller zone of control for the realm and the owner could have personal limited instant travel to his home for himself and 2-8 friends depending on the size of the home to simulate it being inhabited 24/7. They would obviously be much more difficult to defend though. Many players may choose to build near each other or a fort rather than in the middle of nowhere.

    Once again i'm agaisnt any kind of instant travel. Only possibility to do this would be on /release imo :P

    What you guys think? Possible, or improbable?

     

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    Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
    Thurka on WAR

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  • RealLifeGobboRealLifeGobbo Member Posts: 218

    Interesting thought and there is a lot of merit to it, but I do see a problem to this approach, balance.

    The good:
    - I love the real resource based economy model. I thought it worked well in SWG and could work well here.
    - "In CU we could imagine that various areas would be of value due to the specific resources found there." I totally agree.
    - "Ownership can also change", I agree and not sure why it hasn't been done before.

    The bad:
    - If say the Celts have a low population, while the Norse have staggering numbers, they are going have a lot more buildings and what not, because they have more people playing.
    - There is also going to be very little insta-traveling options also.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Aspiring Game Musician <<>> Inquiring ears, feel free to visit: http://www.youtube.com/user/vagarylabs

  • DaizeddDaizedd Member Posts: 142

    I don't really feel like the ownership system is elitest because everyone can build something, what you can build just depends on how many people you can get together. You can't have single people starting up and not finishing forts all over the place. A group that starts a fort should have a reasonable possibility of completing it. Single individuals, or small groups can construct housing which actually has similar qualities.

    Regarding instant travel; it should be really really limited. It is there solely to simulate the idea that the forts/housing are inhabited and defended 24/7 (there are no NPC gueards in this system or only a few), wheras players will obviously not be there 24/7. A small fort might be considered to have 20 people defending it 24/7. That would mean that 20 people max could get instant travel to it over a longish period of time counting from when it is first attacked and thereafter anyone else would have to hike it.

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  • DrakonalDrakonal Member Posts: 42

    What i would enjoy is if, sense there is crafter classes in the game, is if all keeps, towers, forts are built 100% by the players. Where ever they see sit geographically for strategic gain.

     

    I also think this should be a detailed process that can be fought over by the realms, you build a keep and lets say it takes 5 hours to build with 1 crafter, 2 hours with 4-8. At any time an enemy realm can come kill everyone and send their crafters to location to finish the fortification work adding or subtracting whatever work they see fit for strategic gain.

     

    Something along these lines would be pimp.

     

     

    -Drak

    Drakonal of Lancelot/Kay
    Drakulaz of Mordred
    http://www.riskymilk.com/Kujii/Player_Base.wmv (classic guild video alb no cloth group)

  • DaizeddDaizedd Member Posts: 142

    Good ideas Drak.

    I have been thinking that my initial proposal is a little bit too sand-boxy based on what MJ has said. A better idea might be that there are castles in ruins (due to the cataclysm) all over the land that players can build back up. Some might be guarded by dragons too. Once a realm has built back up a castle/fort they are able to exclusively use the resources around a certain area of control of that castle.

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