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[Column] Dungeons & Dragons Online: Cash 4 Gear

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Comments

  • PsYcHoGBRPsYcHoGBR IvybridgePosts: 211Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sithangel1
    I am so tired of people saying this is bad and that is bad but still suckle at the teat. I think that paying for what you want as opposed to getting raped by ninjas and raid monkeys is a better idea. It doesn't break a game or make a game. I would rather pay for a weapon or piece or armor I wanted in a F2P than pay a monthly fee to constantly have someone ninja or roll for something they don't need just to scam you out of your gold coins. Blizzard even had their own people data mining Diablo 3 to get the items and sell them on AH at vastly inflated prices to line their own pockets. So this discussion is a moot point. You don't like it, don't play it. Shut up and let others that want to play that way do so.
     
    Pay to win is not good and Blizzard are now regretting putting the auction house in and the real money AH saying that it has damaged the game, they are also leaving it out completely in the playstation 3 and PS4 versions of Diablo 3. If you want instant gratification then play a single player game.

     

     
     
     
  • Redline65Redline65 Cypress, TXPosts: 486Member
    Originally posted by erictlewis

    We all seen this comming for well over 2 years now, and for those folks who plat lotro, remember when I told you that lotro would go free to play after ddo did.  Well you are about to see something the same happen in lotro.

    Yep. This is why LOTRO added mithril coins to the game. Just wait for the real money auction house to come next.

  • AzartenAzarten MelbournePosts: 33Member

    Why would anyone be surprised by this type of monetization progression in a F2P game.  The F2P model only works if the game company can keep people paying and one off payment items can only make them so much before all the potential buyers already have them.  So therefore what is required to keep the money flowing in, new items that people will want or new monetization methods.

     

    But why should people have to pay is what the F2P crowd is usually decrying right, well here's just some of the ongoing requirements for running an MMO:

    * Servers hosting - Cost is dependant on size and speed required;

    * Wages - Devs (obviously), Managers, Accountants, HR, IT Support, Customer Service, Community Managers, etc;

    * Rent - Building including power costs, etc;

    * Hardware - Either purchased or rented;

    * Internet - Required by most employees;

    * Phones - Land line as well as mobile phone costs;

    * Working capital - You need constant cash flow in order to pay bills, wages, etc on time;

    * Building Insurance - All the companies office contents, etc;

    * Liability insurance - Getting sued without it could spell the end of your company.

    All of these and more are ongoing costs/requirements for running an MMO.

     

    Even those that think B2P alone is all a company should require after release are incredibly naive.  The company has just spent the last 2-5 years creating the game without any incoming customer funds, so that B2P must first cover those costs before they make any profit whatsoever and then after release take away from that the ongoing costs.  Sounds like an unsustainable business model to me.

    Outlaying money each month without a decent return on that expenditure regardless of business model does not tend to go over very well with shareholders, the result usually being the demise of that game.

  • Xstatic912Xstatic912 New York, NYPosts: 365Member
    So most cry foul of sub fees and now the alternative is taking shape.. Guess they'll be more crying.. But honestly what did you guys expect was going to happen, f2p games can't keep all the staff on no income unless switch to a yearly expansion cycle.. As some have said in earlier posts, they don't mind paying because it's less headache to get that item you've been wanting... With games getting more expensive and players not wanting sub etc, this model will become the dominant model until gamers wise up and start boycotting titles that does it.. There's also some of this on console games too so it's spreading slowly...
  • McGamerMcGamer Fairfield Bay, ARPosts: 1,012Member

    Yet people still try to deny that Turbine games, all of them except of course that dinosaur of a game, Asheron's Call, are pay-to-win games. They will never see anymore of my money and neither will any other MMO that tries to go that route.

     

    It all pretty much started getting worse in cash shops with WoW charging RL money in their cash shop for the first buyable mount they have. Many other devs thought that if Blizzard does it that its alright. Well I stopped playing WoW back then partly due to that and still don't play that game to this day.

     

    Many people claim this a lot, but I truly vote with my wallet and others should as well if they care about the future of video games. 

     

    Based on that practice, there are 4 dev companies I do not buy from due to their greedy nature. That being Turbine, EA, Blizzard, & SOE. 

     

    Hopefully the newer companies can learn from the mistakes of the others mentioned.

     
     
     
  • severiusseverius sacramento, CAPosts: 1,514Member Common
      Could you imagine sitting at a table and the DM says $20 for the Vorpal Sword?  That would've been one helluva lonely DM.  

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  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by severius
      Could you imagine sitting at a table and the DM says $20 for the Vorpal Sword?  That would've been one helluva lonely DM.  

    Are you on crack? Bribing the dm is a time honored tradition. Besides, that is not what is happening here, and attempting to color it as such is not helpful.

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Purutzil
    They do this now? Well... DDO scratched off the list of games I will never play again...

      Interesting So if your scratching DDO off your list of games to never play a again that means you now plan on playing it? Hahaha.

  • NoobkilarNoobkilar streator, ILPosts: 175Member

    I am sorry but any game these days who cannot manage money, get in debt and decide cash shop is the option needs to burn in hell. There is no reason a game managed well and a reasonable sub fee cannot make it if people WORK HARD on keeping it updated and managed! Easy street is just to common anymore in 99.9% of mmo's being released and that quick money grab STILL FAILS in the end, *cough STO*

    so what if you do not get 13 mil subs like wow or whatever who gives a rats *** make a good game for once people! I am willing to pay 15 bucks a month for quality but not 20-30 here and there every month for a turd of a game........we got facebook for that junk.

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,665Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by McGamer

    Yet people still try to deny that Turbine games, all of them except of course that dinosaur of a game, Asheron's Call, are pay-to-win games. They will never see anymore of my money and neither will any other MMO that tries to go that route.

     

    It all pretty much started getting worse in cash shops with WoW charging RL money in their cash shop for the first buyable mount they have. Many other devs thought that if Blizzard does it that its alright. Well I stopped playing WoW back then partly due to that and still don't play that game to this day.

     

    Many people claim this a lot, but I truly vote with my wallet and others should as well if they care about the future of video games. 

     

    Based on that practice, there are 4 dev companies I do not buy from due to their greedy nature. That being Turbine, EA, Blizzard, & SOE. 

     

    Hopefully the newer companies can learn from the mistakes of the others mentioned.

     
     
     

    Actually in this case EQ2 are the one to blame. They were the one who came up first with the idea to charge you $20 for a mount in their cash shop. Then it caught up. At least Blizzard offer a lot of of the proceeds from pets/mounts to charities. 

     

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • odiasudaodiasuda KaunasPosts: 81Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Noobkilar

    I am sorry but any game these days who cannot manage money, get in debt and decide cash shop is the option needs to burn in hell. There is no reason a game managed well and a reasonable sub fee cannot make it if people WORK HARD on keeping it updated and managed! Easy street is just to common anymore in 99.9% of mmo's being released and that quick money grab STILL FAILS in the end, *cough STO*

    so what if you do not get 13 mil subs like wow or whatever who gives a rats *** make a good game for once people! I am willing to pay 15 bucks a month for quality but not 20-30 here and there every month for a turd of a game........we got facebook for that junk.

    The problem with DDO is the core game sucks. No amount of good management will change that.  I'm surprised anyone still plays it.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Actually in this case EQ2 are the one to blame. They were the one who came up first with the idea to charge you $20 for a mount in their cash shop. Then it caught up. At least Blizzard offer a lot of of the proceeds from pets/mounts to charities. 

    SOE does virtual item charities too

    http://www.anjelsyndicate.org/2011/12/07/soe-teams-up-with-childs-play-charity-again-this-year-get-cool-stuff/

     

    when Blizzard did their sparkle pony mount -- zero went to charity

    i cannot think of any blizzard mount where charity was involved

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 840Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by McGamer

    Yet people still try to deny that Turbine games, all of them except of course that dinosaur of a game, Asheron's Call, are pay-to-win games.

    Sorry, but arguing that DDO is Pay2Win is a bit pointless, as it is not a competitive game...

    Its kinda like moaning that buying a collectors edition of some single player game is Pay2Win be course you get special weapon not in the base game when you buy that. On one hand its kinda true, but on the other hand who cares, it only affects thier own game experince...

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 840Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by odiasuda

    The problem with DDO is the core game sucks. No amount of good management will change that.  I'm surprised anyone still plays it.

     

    To each his taste I guess. I play this with my old D&D group friends and we enjoy the hell out of it.

  • ego13ego13 Reno, NVPosts: 267Member
    It is an eventuality that you will be able to do this in every game eventually.
    There is no reason NOT to allow players to exchange their work time (money) with play time (gear).
    As a developer you can't win... People will whine about those with more time, money, or whatever else they might be lacking. I'm all for any system that actually helps games make money so that the genre keeps on.

    Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

    image

  • Dren_UtogiDren_Utogi OuterSpacePosts: 1,714Member Uncommon

    I would like to see this article retitled and have it look at the genre as a whole. As this article stands, it singled out a great game which the writter simply trolled to create more positive outlook for Cryptics DnD game.

    This is a very transparent and misleading article.

    reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon

    Games using this kind of system is where the term "pay 2 win" came from. if you can buy gear from a cash shop that is not cosmetic or has very small stat boosts (say for wardrobe) the game is pay2win because they will slowly setup the game so that your forced to buy this stuff if u wanna get anywhere. Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine is a prime example, hardly anyone uses ingame dropped equiupment, or crafted stuff, its all cash shop stuff because quit frankly the cash shop gear blows away anything obtainable in the game.

    Pay2win mmo's are not setup to keep players for long, they are setup to suck players in then suck as much money out of them as possible before they move on. I really wanna know just how stupid people are to fall for this, especally when so many of these p2w mmo's are pretty high up there on the shit-tier gameplay wise.

    Then again this generation of gamers tend to be stupid anyway, when they think games today are great when they are horribly dumbed down compared to last generations game, even most recently bioshock infinite compared to bioshock 1 and 2, bioshock infinite took a pretty large step BACKWARDS in terms of gameplay. But since people are stupid enough to buy this garbage, they don't stop making them, they just keep dumbing them down more and more. In the future I bet all games are going to only need 1 button if they continue as they have been going.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cirin
    It is an eventuality that you will be able to do this in every game eventually.
    There is no reason NOT to allow players to exchange their work time (money) with play time (gear).
    As a developer you can't win... People will whine about those with more time, money, or whatever else they might be lacking. I'm all for any system that actually helps games make money so that the genre keeps on.
     

    They complain because it creates unfair disadvantages for people who have less disposable income, you need to look at it from both sides. Would you stay in a game where someone loaded with cash shop gear, dominates you in every single fight? because you can't afford the cash shop gear? I know I wouldn't because its just not any fun that way.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

    I would like to see this article retitled and have it look at the genre as a whole. As this article stands, it singled out a great game which the writter simply trolled to create more positive outlook for Cryptics DnD game.

    This is a very transparent and misleading article.

    How is the article misleading?

    Other titles are definitely worth scrutinizing because, while not the same yet, they could easily go down this road.  The differences and similarities to GW2, STO, D&D:N, and EVE have already been pointed out.  D&D:N is still in dev so maybe it's worth paying even closer attention to since anything could change, but it doesn't look like Turbine's move with DDO at this point.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Siveria

    Games using this kind of system is where the term "pay 2 win" came from. if you can buy gear from a cash shop that is not cosmetic or has very small stat boosts (say for wardrobe) the game is pay2win because they will slowly setup the game so that your forced to buy this stuff if u wanna get anywhere. Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine is a prime example, hardly anyone uses ingame dropped equiupment, or crafted stuff, its all cash shop stuff because quit frankly the cash shop gear blows away anything obtainable in the game.

    Pay2win mmo's are not setup to keep players for long, they are setup to suck players in then suck as much money out of them as possible before they move on. I really wanna know just how stupid people are to fall for this, especally when so many of these p2w mmo's are pretty high up there on the shit-tier gameplay wise.

    Then again this generation of gamers tend to be stupid anyway, when they think games today are great when they are horribly dumbed down compared to last generations game, even most recently bioshock infinite compared to bioshock 1 and 2, bioshock infinite took a pretty large step BACKWARDS in terms of gameplay. But since people are stupid enough to buy this garbage, they don't stop making them, they just keep dumbing them down more and more. In the future I bet all games are going to only need 1 button if they continue as they have been going.

    The gear comes from other players.  It's players selling their gear for tokens bought with real money.  LotRO players see the writing on the wall.  It would probably be better if the items just existed in the cash shop, but this is worse.

    Not much of what you said even applies here.  These aren't churn based f2p games.  These are niche Freemium games.  Both DDO and LotRO mainly consist of long time dedicated players.  Turbine is trying to generate additional revenue.  A huge problem in this particular situation is that it will dramatically advantage a small portion of the playerbase at the expense of the rest.

  • Storman1977Storman1977 Columbus, OHPosts: 207Member


    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Siveria Games using this kind of system is where the term "pay 2 win" came from. if you can buy gear from a cash shop that is not cosmetic or has very small stat boosts (say for wardrobe) the game is pay2win because they will slowly setup the game so that your forced to buy this stuff if u wanna get anywhere. Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine is a prime example, hardly anyone uses ingame dropped equiupment, or crafted stuff, its all cash shop stuff because quit frankly the cash shop gear blows away anything obtainable in the game. Pay2win mmo's are not setup to keep players for long, they are setup to suck players in then suck as much money out of them as possible before they move on. I really wanna know just how stupid people are to fall for this, especally when so many of these p2w mmo's are pretty high up there on the shit-tier gameplay wise. Then again this generation of gamers tend to be stupid anyway, when they think games today are great when they are horribly dumbed down compared to last generations game, even most recently bioshock infinite compared to bioshock 1 and 2, bioshock infinite took a pretty large step BACKWARDS in terms of gameplay. But since people are stupid enough to buy this garbage, they don't stop making them, they just keep dumbing them down more and more. In the future I bet all games are going to only need 1 button if they continue as they have been going.
    The gear comes from other players. It's players selling their gear for tokens bought with real money. LotRO players see the writing on the wall. It would probably be better if the items just existed in the cash shop, but this is worse.

    Not much of what you said even applies here. These aren't churn based f2p games. These are niche Freemium games. Both DDO and LotRO mainly consist of long time dedicated players. Turbine is trying to generate additional revenue. A huge problem in this particular situation is that it will dramatically advantage a small portion of the playerbase at the expense of the rest.


    How will it create an advantage? The items being sold are being sold by the players. There is no gear that is available only through the ASAH. The players who buy are either unlucky or lazy. It's a PvE focused game. What PvP there is, is completely voluntary and without any meaning. Any item on the ASAH can be earned, in quest, with either enough time or luck. The only way it provides an advantage is if you are a "Keeping up with the Jones" type player.

    image

  • Dren_UtogiDren_Utogi OuterSpacePosts: 1,714Member Uncommon
    Lineage 2 had this way before, and AoC had it way before.
     

    reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  • mawgrenmawgren ATLANTA, GAPosts: 24Member
    Not a fan of the shard exchange or astral shards in general so I don't use them. As long as it doesn't becomre mandatory I'm okay with it because so far it really doesn't effect me. The problem is Turbine tried this game as a subscription and it didn't work... now they are working on the second expansion since going f2p..... So if this is what Turbine has to do to be profitable then more power to them if it mean more game content. If the future content is bad or shards become mandatory I'll stop playing, pretty simple.
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