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[POLL] Tab Targeting vs Action Combat

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  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Krytycal

    Originally posted by Arclan

    Originally posted by Horusra
    I do not like Action combat for a few reasons:1) prone to hacking
    2) tends to limit abilities due to movement control
    3) twitch base really means internet connection based

    Very excellent points.To those here who say they have come to prefer action combat; I would say that is more a product of the deteriorating social element in MMOs.
    What does action combat have to do with how social or well designed a game is?
    While I disagree that action combat is any more influenced by the 3 factors quoted, it is hard to type when your fingers are pressing ability keys and dodging. I guess everybody uses voice chat?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,609Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    Originally posted by Krytycal
    Originally posted by Arclan
    Originally posted by Horusra
    I do not like Action combat for a few reasons:1) prone to hacking
    2) tends to limit abilities due to movement control
    3) twitch base really means internet connection based
    Very excellent points.

    To those here who say they have come to prefer action combat; I would say that is more a product of the deteriorating social element in MMOs.



    What does action combat have to do with how social or well designed a game is?

    While I disagree that action combat is any more influenced by the 3 factors quoted, it is hard to type when your fingers are pressing ability keys and dodging. I guess everybody uses voice chat?

    Everybody uses voice chat in tab target MMOs as well.


    Its kinda because in tab target MMOs you dont have any time to type either because you are pressing ability keys and moving constantly as well.


    Seriously, when was the last time you people actually played an MMO?

  • nolic1nolic1 Kingman, AZPosts: 687Member Uncommon
    The differnce I see between action combat and tab targeting games is not much I played both EQ and wow and many others that follow that same set up and find action combat better to me because you can make more mistakes in A/C then in T/T games in T/T you just target that mob and the tank does pretty much all the agro control and then the healer has to keep everyone alive and in tab target games with macros and such it makes that really easy to be done and then you add add-ons and gets even easier. I played EQ2 as a tank and you had to learn the raid yes but once you knew it it was easy after that. In A/C games raids become just that chaos cause thats what combat is chaos its not easy to control the out come cause its so much harder to do. In DCUO raids get hard but they still have tabing in it so it can be easy at times. But then you have TERA and GW2 and doing raids or dungeons in them become chaos unless you sit and figure out things and then try it and once you get down how the things work you start to see how hard or easy they are. Also TSW has some crazy raids at times and so does Fallen Earth with its giant world mobs. They can become a challenge and be hard but its all about learning how they work and what needs to be done and most games even with T/T and A/C have this but in A/C most think you can just zerg it.

    image
    To me I enjoy gaming I dont play to be uber I play to have fun. If a game is not fun to me guess what I move on and play something else till I find one that is. When I find that great game and not sure if in my life time there will be one I hope it has everything I want in an mmo.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by BigHatLogan
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Explain to me how you would even select a target in a game without targeting....how would that even work??

    Face the target and hit it with a projectile.  It isn't rocket science.

    Face palm!

    Millions of players play action combat games everyday. It is not like aiming, shooting, and meleeing needs a lot of explanations.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Xiaoki
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    ... is hard to type when your fingers are pressing ability keys and dodging. I guess everybody uses voice chat?
    Everybody uses voice chat in tab target MMOs as well.

    Its kinda because in tab target MMOs you dont have any time to type either because you are pressing ability keys and moving constantly as well.

    Seriously, when was the last time you people actually played an MMO?



    "Everyone" uses voice chat? You sure about that? Wait. I bet you meant good players :)

    The more abilities you have your fingers on, yes, the less typing occurs. Add in one hand on a mouse and it almost cancels out typing altogether, without missing an attack or three.

    EQ tab-targeting had auto-attack, very little mouse control, and a couple (2-5) abilities a player used in fights. Bards were the exception, constantly twisting their 3-5 songs. Abilities had cool downs and there was plenty of time to type out a line or two in a chat box. Conversations, jokes, and stories were easily shared during combat. As was directions in a group or raid.

    I realize that most players now would be bored to death in this kind of system. That does not mean others do not enjoy it.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,583Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by Krytycal

    Originally posted by Arclan

    Originally posted by Horusra
    I do not like Action combat for a few reasons:

     

    1) prone to hacking
    2) tends to limit abilities due to movement control
    3) twitch base really means internet connection based

     


    Very excellent points.

     

    To those here who say they have come to prefer action combat; I would say that is more a product of the deteriorating social element in MMOs.

     


    What does action combat have to do with how social or well designed a game is?
    While I disagree that action combat is any more influenced by the 3 factors quoted, it is hard to type when your fingers are pressing ability keys and dodging. I guess everybody uses voice chat?

     

    I look at Plantside and most FPS's they are riddled with hacks and no game seems to want to put the money into fixing that issue.  If the game is PvE that is fine.  PvP it is a game killer.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     

    The more abilities you have your fingers on, yes, the less typing occurs. Add in one hand on a mouse and it almost cancels out typing altogether, without missing an attack or three.

    EQ tab-targeting had auto-attack, very little mouse control, and a couple (2-5) abilities a player used in fights. Bards were the exception, constantly twisting their 3-5 songs. Abilities had cool downs and there was plenty of time to type out a line or two in a chat box. Conversations, jokes, and stories were easily shared during combat. As was directions in a group or raid.

    I realize that most players now would be bored to death in this kind of system. That does not mean others do not enjoy it.

    Typing is slow and inefficient compared to voice .. in terms of communication.

    I have no doubt you can find people who enjoy anything ... but if you look at people raiding challenging content, voice communication is a must.

    Heck, this is not new. When i was raiding ... must be 1-2 years ago ... voice is already standard.

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,583Member Uncommon
    What if you are just out not raiding or grouping and want to kill stuff while talking in a world chat?  A voice chat for that would not work.
  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Horusra

     

    I look at Plantside and most FPS's they are riddled with hacks and no game seems to want to put the money into fixing that issue.  If the game is PvE that is fine.  PvP it is a game killer.

    I still don't see how action combat = hacks.  What does a fps game have to do with an action combat mmo ?

  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,301Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    If I wanted action combat I would play a console game with a controller where I could mash buttons.

    Tab targeting allows for tactics like crowd control and splitting techniques that simply aren't possible during action zergfests.

    Don't be a fool. Action combat can and has just as much tactics, CC and everything else than any other method of combat. It only looks like a button mash to someone who doesn't understand what is happening.

    You're letting your ignorance show.

    Was about to say the same. Only problem with CC in action combat is that it's mostly an AoE effect and thus a possible aggro puller for other mobs. Aside from that, I prefer action combat over tabbing (with auto-turning to target).

    The one thing I really miss in action combat is some good pets/minions control though

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  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,583Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Horusra

     

    I look at Plantside and most FPS's they are riddled with hacks and no game seems to want to put the money into fixing that issue.  If the game is PvE that is fine.  PvP it is a game killer.

    I still don't see how action combat = hacks.  What does a fps game have to do with an action combat mmo ?

    Called Auto aim. 

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,583Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Reizla
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    If I wanted action combat I would play a console game with a controller where I could mash buttons.

    Tab targeting allows for tactics like crowd control and splitting techniques that simply aren't possible during action zergfests.

    Don't be a fool. Action combat can and has just as much tactics, CC and everything else than any other method of combat. It only looks like a button mash to someone who doesn't understand what is happening.

    You're letting your ignorance show.

    Was about to say the same. Only problem with CC in action combat is that it's mostly an AoE effect and thus a possible aggro puller for other mobs. Aside from that, I prefer action combat over tabbing (with auto-turning to target).

    The one thing I really miss in action combat is some good pets/minions control though

    if it is auto-turning how is it really different than tab tagetting...somehow you are "locking" onto the target for auto-turning to work.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Horusra
    What if you are just out not raiding or grouping and want to kill stuff while talking in a world chat?  A voice chat for that would not work.
    Exactly. How does one ask for help in the zone when they do an "oopsie" and pull more than they can handle or get some untimely adds?
    "help i neewww1wswwdddssw22wwww"
    *crap*

    I will say that action combat DOES help with inane chatter in map channels when players are fighting :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    Some of you are seriously grasping at straws here. I really doubt I'm that quick of a typer yet I have no problem conversing in chat regardless whether it is action or tab oriented. Granted I use vc at times as well but there are plenty of times I just bs via general or world chat by typing. Pretty sure if I can do it the majority on here are just as capable as well.

    Not really seeing how the style of gameplay somehow defeats this from being possible if you care to unless there is some sort of action oriented post tramautic stress disorder I am unaware of.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Horusra
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Horusra

     

    I look at Plantside and most FPS's they are riddled with hacks and no game seems to want to put the money into fixing that issue.  If the game is PvE that is fine.  PvP it is a game killer.

    I still don't see how action combat = hacks.  What does a fps game have to do with an action combat mmo ?

    Called Auto aim. 

    You don't know what action combat is do you. If you really want a throw out hacks. Tab target games are full of bots. Pretty hard to bot in an action combat game.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Some of you are seriously grasping at straws here. I really doubt I'm that quick of a typer yet I have no problem conversing in chat regardless whether it is action or tab oriented. Granted I use vc at times as well but there are plenty of times I just bs via general or world chat by typing. Pretty sure if I can do it the majority on here are just as capable as well.

    Not really seeing how the style of gameplay somehow defeats this from being possible if you care to unless there is some sort of action oriented post tramautic stress disorder I am unaware of.


    I've got an 8086 processor for a brain with a whopping 64kb of memory :) The input sometimes gets bottled up... Being in the middle of a text chat and suddenly needing to dodge an attack is truly a pain. Erase the text by backspacing, hit enter, and try to dodge. Or just hit enter and dodge and have people wondering what on earth you're talking about :)

    I also look at my keyboard when I type for chatting. I am probably alone in this, though.

    I think "tab targeting" has taken on a broader sense than what I think of it as: EQ1 tab targeting. WoW with it's skill bar covered UI is also tab targeting, yet very different.

    Also, "tab target" describes target acquisition while "action combat" describes general combat. A better selection would have been either:
    Tab Targeting vs. Aiming
    Static Combat vs. Action Combat.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Horusra
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Horusra

     

    I look at Plantside and most FPS's they are riddled with hacks and no game seems to want to put the money into fixing that issue.  If the game is PvE that is fine.  PvP it is a game killer.

    I still don't see how action combat = hacks.  What does a fps game have to do with an action combat mmo ?

    Called Auto aim. 

    You don't know what action combat is do you. If you really want a throw out hacks. Tab target games are full of bots. Pretty hard to bot in an action combat game.

    Good point here.  An FPS is action combat, but not really the type that's being discussed in this thread.

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon

    Voice chat. /major gag. Only did that a few times in Planetside 1 years ago; and it was the most immersive-killing element ever. Only one person sounded cool. Everyone else sounded like total goofs.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by Arclan

    Voice chat. /major gag. Only did that a few times in Planetside 1 years ago; and it was the most immersive-killing element ever. Only one person sounded cool. Everyone else sounded like total goofs.

    Which one were you? lol

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,013Member Uncommon
    I like both, but there wasn't an option in the poll.  Before i played MMOs, i would always play FPS games, so action combat targeting doesn't bother me.  I wish more MMOs would have dodge like GW2 too..  and i know WoW has Roll for monks, but it still doesn't feel the same, since it only rolls the direction you're facing.  I think the TSW has dodge also, but i might be wrong.
  • Sho0terMcgavinSho0terMcgavin Harrisburg, PAPosts: 301Member
    I've traditionally played alot of Tab Target games.  But, I feel like that time has passed and some good action mmos like Tera have come out, and some even better ones on the horizon (ESO, Wildstar, Blade & Soul etc).  Just my opinion of course.  To be honest, I didn't expect as many people choosing tab target over action.  It will definitely give me a better perspective from now on.  

    image
  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by Sho0terMcgavin
    I've traditionally played alot of Tab Target games.  But, I feel like that time has passed and some good action mmos like Tera have come out, and some even better ones on the horizon (ESO, Wildstar, Blade & Soul etc).  Just my opinion of course.  To be honest, I didn't expect as many people choosing tab target over action.  It will definitely give me a better perspective from now on.  

    .2%?  That's not many more people.  Besides, WoW is still the best selling MMO out there last time I checked and it's got tab targetting.

  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon

    I like both.

     

  • StilerStiler Athens, TNPosts: 599Member

    I can enjoy both, but I have grown tired of the same old mmo style combat.

     

    There are so many "different" combat systems out there, in both rpgs nad action games, but mmo's seem "rooted" into following the same exact combat style n almost any. Tab-target, hotkey formula, over and over and over.

     

    It becomes quite repeitive and gets boring fast.

  • Kuro1nKuro1n GothenburgPosts: 771Member
    After having played Tera I really have to say I prefer action combat over tab target (even though Tera could have been better still). I think there is space for both types but well done action combat is amazing.
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