Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

[Column] Dungeons & Dragons Online: Cash 4 Gear

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,581MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

Cash 4 Gear is a new phenomenon creeping into the MMO-space, most notably in Dungeons & Dragons Online. In today's Devil's Advocate, we take a look at the system and offer thoughts as to what it all means. Check it out and then take the discussion to the comments.

Chris Coke, my fellow MMORPG.com columnist on The Tourist, pointed today’s Devil’s Advocate topic to me some time ago, and the topic itself is a little absurd when you first think about it. In the same way that there’s a Cash 4 Gold phenomenon in parts of the world where you can earn money for trading in gold jewelry, the idea of Cash 4 Gear appears to also be making its way into the MMO sphere via Dungeons and Dragons Online (DDO).

Read more of Victor Barreiro Jr.'s The Devil's Advocate: Cash 4 Gear.

image

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

image
«1

Comments

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,714Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cronius77
    [mod edit]

    You must be joking...

     

    For the column, nicely written but I miss the mention of STO which has a similar method since about a year now - true not this direct as DDO will have, you exchange dilly and not the items which will / could be much more volatile. But even with the more steady rate there are players who "play the exchange" all the time...

    And Neverwinter's astral diamonds?

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,923Member Uncommon
    They do this now? Well... DDO scratched off the list of games I will never play again...
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon

    The problem is especially bad with Turbine games because they lock the most sought after items behind raids.  Everything else (crafting) can be purchased through the store.  Overland drops are junk.  This is essentially lining the pockets of raiders. 

    Good to see where Turbine thinks their money is.  I wonder how that will play out for them.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,714Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Purutzil
    They do this now? Well... DDO scratched off the list of games I will never play again...

    I admit I seldom play DDO nowadays, so my main concern about this is what both Victor and in the linked article Roger Edwards referred, LotRO and Mithril Coins...

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member

    This seems relevent here http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win

    P2w seems rather clearly not bad in and of itself, merely bad depending on implementation, just like any other business model.

     

     

  • mbeach90266mbeach90266 Redondo Beach, CAPosts: 12Member Common

    Neither of these games hold any interest to me.  

    But this is interesting in that it's creating a precedence, which could lead other games into doing the same.

    I for one am hoping that it doesn't catch on.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Po_gg
    Originally posted by Purutzil
    They do this now? Well... DDO scratched off the list of games I will never play again...

    I admit I seldom play DDO nowadays, so my main concern about this is what both Victor and in the linked article Roger Edwards referred, LotRO and Mithril Coins...

    I know.  I'm a little frustrated because I know what the answer is going to be.  It seems there is not much to do about it but put up or move on.  Not my favorite kind of deal.

  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon
    with the recent turbine layoffs I think you can safely say this wont be catching on from other companies anytime soon.  Without server population numbers they can mask their success like SWTOR does but not everyone wants to play a pay to win game , and I would even go as far as to say that most dont want to play a pay to win game. You can look at all the asian grinder games with pay to win pvp and pve and see just how well they do when new articles weekly pretty much show one merging or shutting down.
  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by cronius77
    with the recent turbine layoffs I think you can safely say this wont be catching on from other companies anytime soon.  Without server population numbers they can mask their success like SWTOR does but not everyone wants to play a pay to win game , and I would even go as far as to say that most dont want to play a pay to win game. You can look at all the asian grinder games with pay to win pvp and pve and see just how well they do when new articles weekly pretty much show one merging or shutting down.

    Like I said, look at the link I posted above, the metrics tend to show otherwise, as they should as "p2w" advantages exist in pretty much every sport. Games merging, or closing really depends on many many factors, quality of the games, how the payment model itself is implemented etc.

  • Strizzy12Strizzy12 bronx, NYPosts: 16Member
    Worth noting a cash for gold/gear system similar to this is also happening in Tera as well. 
  • sithangel1sithangel1 Grand Prairie, TXPosts: 4Member
    I am so tired of people saying this is bad and that is bad but still suckle at the teat. I think that paying for what you want as opposed to getting raped by ninjas and raid monkeys is a better idea. It doesn't break a game or make a game. I would rather pay for a weapon or piece or armor I wanted in a F2P than pay a monthly fee to constantly have someone ninja or roll for something they don't need just to scam you out of your gold coins. Blizzard even had their own people data mining Diablo 3 to get the items and sell them on AH at vastly inflated prices to line their own pockets. So this discussion is a moot point. You don't like it, don't play it. Shut up and let others that want to play that way do so.
  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,299Member Uncommon

    A lot of DDO bashing here (LotRo is not doing this described in the article BTW, unless it changed the last year), but I hear no one about EVE online and it's PLEX system. STo was mentioned as well, but all PWI games have this system (sadly). And how about GW2..?

    Yes, buying in-game money legally using the publisher is HOT HOT HOT. A certain group of players fall for it (the NOW-generation), and I hope when too many MMOs do it it'll blow over like a lot of trends have done. It'll take time, but eventually we'll be playing  normal again without too much pay2win *I hope*

    AsRock 990FX Extreme3
    AMD Phenom II 1090T ~3.2Ghz
    GEiL 16Gb DDR3 1600Mhz
    ASUS GTX970 3x HD monitor 1920x1080

  • Storman1977Storman1977 Columbus, OHPosts: 207Member
    You know the really great thing about the AD system in DDO?  You can completely ignore it.  That's what I've been doing.  Maybe buying Raid gear would piss me off more if there were a PvP system and it gave any meaningful advantage.  As I see it, the "gotta have it now" crowd will buy all the desirable gear from the raid whores and then leave the game since there will be nothing for them to do.  I look at that as a Win/Win.  It adds money to the game and gets the lazy assholes out of the game at the same time.
     

    image

  • newchemicalsnewchemicals San Gabriel, CAPosts: 43Member
    I'll vote with my wallet and not play "pay to win" type games. No such thing as "free" to play. Someone has to pay and frankly I want the game to cater to me the paying player.
  • AeolronAeolron Ottawa, ONPosts: 648Member
    I agree with you cronius. I was there for Lotr when it was a pay to play game, graphics and lore amazing , but it felt very generic and slow., boring considering what they did. I think that ddo and Lotr will close sometime this year or the next, yet again this is my opinion and the reasons why these games went free to play is because in basic terms they sucked plain and simple, they were missing something.
  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    When a company really turns pay to win I just stop looking at their upcoming games. There are so many companies, I can pass on ones pulling this crap.
  • reploidxreploidx Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 320Member
    I got tons of great gear on DDO for free just by doing runs, you can't really pay to win DDO since there is little to no PvP, just doing instanced dungeons.
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Reizla

    A lot of DDO bashing here (LotRo is not doing this described in the article BTW, unless it changed the last year), but I hear no one about EVE online and it's PLEX system. STo was mentioned as well, but all PWI games have this system (sadly). And how about GW2..?

    Yes, buying in-game money legally using the publisher is HOT HOT HOT. A certain group of players fall for it (the NOW-generation), and I hope when too many MMOs do it it'll blow over like a lot of trends have done. It'll take time, but eventually we'll be playing  normal again without too much pay2win *I hope*

    This is a good post and the Plex, PWE, and GW2 gems systems are very similar, especially the PWE/Cryptic system with their intermediary currency). I'm going to be watching this very closely from now on.

    The difference, to me so far, is that in those other games you mentioned most every player has easy access to those items.  The same isn't really true of Turbiine games where the most sought after items are locked squarely behind raiding.  People want 1st age weapons, and top tier raid gear.  The first agers will disappear from the normal AH and only be sold for cash.

     

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    We all seen this comming for well over 2 years now, and for those folks who plat lotro, remember when I told you that lotro would go free to play after ddo did.  Well you are about to see something the same happen in lotro.

    Pay to win, it has been on the horizon all the time and Turbine/WB been pushing hard to get folks to accept play to win items.

    Just saying I am not surprised. 

     

  • crazynannycrazynanny PopowoPosts: 173Member

    So in other words this is actually worse version of Blizzard RMAH, that everyone and their dog hated so much?

     

    At least in D3 you could get some cash out of it too, here only Turbine gets it all, as I assume that you can't use those shards outside the game? Not to mention it's an MMO unlike D3 where you can solo 100% content(so there is zero influence on you whether someone buys gear for $ or not). Not that I care much about either, just note that in this case company is even more greedy then Blizzard.

     

    Now this isn't new "feature" as some big and successful MMOs have it as mentioned EVE or Guild Wars 2. Guess it feels more fair there as GW2 has no monthly fee(and no premium accounts) and in EVE you  can play for free that way, so you can understand that those companies want a some profit too. Here it's more obvious cash grab.

     

    Now whether it's P2W or not depends on gear you that you can buy on such RMAH and whether the game world is persistant(I assume yes as it's MMO). If you can buy same gear as you can find in game in some reasonable time(2-3 hours/2-3 dungeon runs) I don't care. But if you can skip say weeks of  gameplay aka buy the current best raid drop, that's  too much. At least that's how I see it.

  • Storman1977Storman1977 Columbus, OHPosts: 207Member

    Well, as far as I can tell, top tier gear in most games is locked behind some quest mechanic, usually raiding. As for first life gear disappearing from the regular AH, the really good gear has been gone for quite a while. It was either traded in private channels or done so in the quests that they drop. With the ADAH, this becomes a situation where the true, top end raid gear becomes trade capable. Before now, the majority of top end gear was bound to account or bound to character.

    And as to the raiding mechanic being a barrier, I find that hard to believe. DDO is not like WoW where you need to gather 24+ people and then fight with them once the boss fight is over in hopes of reaching the drop first. In DDO, a raid is only 12 people and they all have their loot drops sorted out individually. There is also no one piece of gear that any class HAS to have. While there is plenty of desired gear, not having something will not bar a player from progressing.

    image

  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member

     

    [mod edit]

     

    Cash 4 Gear has been around since vanilla WoW for decades now, this is entirely nothing new.  What Turbine did was include it as part of their market/AH system.  You can earn astral shards via ingame through favor or sellin the gear which one can easily buy said gear off the AH with in game money and turn around and sell it on the astral exchange or obtain it through normal means of doing the quest.  Not to mention more ways to obtain Astral Shards will be included in the game.  Unlike Neverwinter which so far it's so grindy that they practically force players to buy AD which in turn can buy better gear (hell even the rolled gear in dungeons ends up being a free for all since nothing is class specific and is BoE which just makes it a free for all), a 2 million AD cost mount which one is forced to buy with real money since one only gets a whopping 1k AD for skirmishes during the event.  Not to mention the Zen store exclusive products.  At least with DDO one can earn TP via favor to purchase anything offered in the store including Astral Shards.

     

    I don't agree with what they did but at least they make it optional.  One can use the market to get the astral shards they want for the gear they want or use the TP they earn for it, and that's not including the monster manual to earn astral shards or the daily die lotto or the future methods to earn astral shards which was stated will be coming.  Games like Neverwinter where everyway you look one is nickled and dimed with AD for either runes stones, mounts, mount training, quality gear, AH (which in dungeon gear being BoE and no class restriction along with lvl restrictions good luck on getting the gear for your class lol), and who know what else.

  • firefly2003firefly2003 Los Angeles, CAPosts: 2,555Member
    Ahh people that play the market and manipulate auction house prices for their benefit I suppose in a loot based economny it works to their advantage in Star Wars Galaxies that didnt work to their advantage too much when you controlled who could come into your shop people that did that quickly went into my ban from shop list and quickly passed the word to other traders and crafters about greedy people wanting to gouge people who didnt know any better. Since everything that was bought from your shop had a name ID attached on who bought it was easy to find the d-bags doing that nonsense.

    image

  • dgarbinidgarbini San Jose, CAPosts: 185Member

    In the old days of MMO's buy and selling equipment was common.  So lets say we want to buy this sword that costs 100 gold.  Firstly the sale price is configured by basic supply and demand of the players no outside involvement.  So to earn this 100 gold, you can play some time farm some money or you can outsource that work to a gold farmer and buy it from him.

     

    Today we have the same system of buying gear for money.  One sword, 100 gold.  To get that money you can again grind or pay a gold farmer to grind for you.  But there is one more option you can now pay the company directly to get the gold.  Essentailly the game companies have cut out the middle man of the gold farmer and took their place.  Sounds good enough, nobody will miss the spam and such.

     

    Here is where the problem comes in.  Because the game company now sells you god directly they have an incentive for you to buy more of it.  A gold farmer has no control over the game, but the game company does.  So this leads itself to all kinds of potentially unethical hyjinks.  Such as that same sword for 100g well we need more money so lets tweak our drop rates to make it rarer, thus raising the price and making people spend more actual cash to get it.  Or people are getting gold to easily from grinding mobs, if this keeps up we will no longer be able to sell them our gold.  Lets make grining more time cosuming or difficult.  Or lets make the leveling process/quests less rewarding, thus to get what you want, you have to spend an insane amount of time getting it or you can just more easily pay us.  Its way to easy for companies to manipulate the economies to their financial benifit and against yours, in secret with no checks and balances.

     

    This had been a big problem in GW2 when I was playing it, and the trend seems to be getting worse/stronger.  Its a great way for companies to make extra money and since it is secret most of the player base will not realize how manipulated they are.  It is dirty business and untransparent.  And I personally will not buy into this concept.

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 839Member Uncommon
    Funny you mentioned EVE. PLEX to AUR conversion is actaully comparable to this. Of course the player reaction to AUR was LOL, and it was ignored by players. Today AUR in EVE is a nearly unused feature that reminds players of a past where CCP thought they could get away with selling them more than just game-time...
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.