James Ohlen on GDC, discussed SWTOR problems

FromHell · March 2013

check it out

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/28/bioware-gdc-panel-star-wars-the-old-republic/

"GDC 2013: BioWare expected players to take five months to hit SWTOR’s level cap"

AxiosImmortal · March 2013

They came in knowing nothing about MMOs, understandable. Producing a themepark MMO=you better be able to produce lots of content quick. LOL they expected us to hit 50 in 5 months.

Psychow · March 2013

I thought I remember something about them saying 200 hours of content per class.

I guess they expected people to play less than 2 hours a day...

AxiosImmortal · March 2013

Originally posted by Psychow
I thought I remember something about them saying 200 hours of content per class.

I guess they expected people to play less than 2 hours a day...

lollololollololololollol

Ice-Queen · March 2013

That guy was so totally clueless as to what a good mmo is the whole time during beta, and after release. Can't believe he wasn't canned with the others.

Spellforged · March 2013

They weren't prepared for people playing 15 hours a day and skipping dialogue whenever possible. I've only heard a few rumors, but I believe they do exist...

Ice-Queen · March 2013

Originally posted by Ujirik
They weren't prepared for people playing 15 hours a day and skipping dialogue whenever possible. I've only heard a few rumors, but I believe they do exist...

Yah, I don't know how they weren't prepared for it, we tried to tell them in beta the game was stale and the dialog would be skipped, and the worlds felt lifeless, among so many other things. They knew...We were already forming groups in beta for flashpoints asking for members only that would skip through dialog. If they didn't know people would skip through the dialog after all that, they should stop making mmo's, they'll never get it right. They're arrogance destroyed any chance the game would have had by ignoring beta testers negative feedback (the ones that weren't rump kissing constantly that is).

tokini · March 2013

their own inexperience is no excuse. they could have looked at any of the games that have been released before them to see how fast people are able to achieve level cap. they straight blew it, in that regard.

FromHell · March 2013

Originally posted by tokini
their own inexperience is no excuse. they could have looked at any of the games that have been released before them to see how fast people are able to achieve level cap. they straight blew it, in that regard.

or, they could have asked someone on the team who played MMOs, to tell them about content locusts.

Maybe EA Louse was a hardcore MMO player but no one listened to him, they pointed and laughed at him, lvl50 in less than one month, impossibru! Then he was "laid off"...

Bigdaddyx · March 2013

For someone who completely dispises SWTOR, you sure love to bring us all the latest news (which put SWTOR in negative light ofcourse) about it OP. When i usually dislike something i just walk away...never to look back.

I can understand why very few SWTOR fans bother to hang around on these forums anymore.

However, on topic of being content locust i hit rank 13 and finished all missions and regions in less than a Month in TSW. It is the only MMO i know which launched with such a pathrtic little amount of content. Maybe that is why the game had to go B2P to save its behind and so many people were laid off? makes sense.

Glass houses and all...lol

Sovrath · March 2013

Originally posted by Ujirik
They weren't prepared for people playing 15 hours a day and skipping dialogue whenever possible. I've only heard a few rumors, but I believe they do exist...

Except that not everyone was skipping dialogue. The problem was that they had a horde of people who were not interested in this game as it was presented.

To that point, I never once skipped dialogue. ever. However I hit level cap in a month I believe.

there are peopel who like this game. And even now play it and love it. But the game never offered anyting other than the "bioware story experience". Had they added other things to keep people going, those who were interested in what they had to offer, the style of the game, would have stayed around.

Rolling alts is not a legitimate end game.

Loktofeit · March 2013

Last line.

Any line.

Ice-Queen · March 2013

Originally posted by Loktofeit
Last line.

Any line.

lol

DalekThay · March 2013

I played quite casually. I listened to all the dialogue, explored the worlds for holocrons, did all the 'bonus' quests, etc. It only took me a month and a half to hit cap. We're talking 4 hours a day maximum, 3 days a week kind of casual.

How, in the name of Bender's shiny metal ass, could they have possibly ever even thought that it would take 5 months to hit the cap? HOW?!? Did they have no hardcore players on their staff? In the beta test? Did they not ask anybody? Didn't they playtest the freaking thing?!?

His whole excuse for why the game was launched an incomplete mess basically boils down to, "We thought we'd have more time to create endgame stuff / add features / fix bugs than we did, but the players went through stuff too fast!". Talk about ignorance, laziness, ineptitude, and lack of foresight...

Oh and I should point out that once again, BiowareEA is blaming the players and not themselves for their own shortcomings involving SWTOR. Not surprising, really.

Beyorn · March 2013

I’m probably the slowest gamer on mmorpg.com. I listen to all dialogues, did all the quest I could find. I explored, I harvested materials for crafting and it only took me about 2 ½ months. That is with playing about 2 hours a day. I don’t see how they could have thought it would take players 5 months. If I would have had the time I could have done it much faster, RL sucks ;|.

strangiato2112 · March 2013

Originally posted by Loktofeit
Last line.

Any line.

Either they are lying or they have 350k+ subs, which would put them in pretty rare company. The only games that have maintained that high of a player base in the west for a years time are EQ, EvE and WoW. Of course those three games combined cost probably less than 75 million to make (WoW was 60 million, EvE was 5...I have zero clue what EQ cost but given its age and technology at the time Im sure it wasnt signifcant)

waynejr2 · March 2013

Originally posted by Psychow
I thought I remember something about them saying 200 hours of content per class.

I guess they expected people to play less than 2 hours a day...

Max. And much less even in beta. So I would call BS on 5months.

BrooksTech · March 2013

I like swtor. Still playng it and having a good time dong so.

strangiato2112 · March 2013

the smaller, but more agile team made me laugh. Im picturing a bunch of coding gymnasts.

(yes, I know what they mean by agile...but its a completely bullshit thing to say)

danwest58 · March 2013

Originally posted by FromHell
check it out

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/28/bioware-gdc-panel-star-wars-the-old-republic/

"GDC 2013: BioWare expected players to take five months to hit SWTOR’s level cap"

It was said last year at their guild get together in TX. So that is not new. Thats why they were scrambling to come up with a new plan.

Bigdaddyx · March 2013

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Either they are lying or they have 350k+ subs, which would put them in pretty rare company. The only games that have maintained that high of a player base in the west for a years time are EQ, EvE and WoW. Of course those three games combined cost probably less than 75 million to make (WoW was 60 million, EvE was 5...I have zero clue what EQ cost but given its age and technology at the time Im sure it wasnt signifcant)

EVE hit around 400K couple of years back. You make it sound as if eve maintained 4OOK+ players since release. WOW on the other hand is the only P2P MMO which has grown in millions and EQ was the only PVE MMO to hold a large amount of subs back in the day because it had no compeition. Either it was EQ or back to UO.

So yes it is quite possible that SWTOR has grown in numbers after F2P changes..all the MMOS do for example Tera which also hit 1 mill playerbase after F2P conversion. But no since it is BW so it must be lying.

taus01 · March 2013

"We have a team that is smaller, but more agile."

This is corporate speak for: "We moved everyone to another project and fired the rest, except 1 manager, 1 Programmer and 1 markting guy. We have replaced support with volunteer GMs"

Ice-Queen · March 2013

Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
Originally posted by strangiato2112

Either they are lying or they have 350k+ subs, which would put them in pretty rare company. The only games that have maintained that high of a player base in the west for a years time are EQ, EvE and WoW. Of course those three games combined cost probably less than 75 million to make (WoW was 60 million, EvE was 5...I have zero clue what EQ cost but given its age and technology at the time Im sure it wasnt signifcant)

EVE hit around 400K couple of years back. You make it sound as if eve maintained 4OOK+ players since release. WOW on the other hand is the only P2P MMO which has grown in millions and EQ was the only PVE MMO to hold a large amount of subs back in the day because it had no compeition. Either it was EQ or back to UO.

So yes it is quite possible that SWTOR has grown in numbers after F2P changes..all the MMOS do for example Tera which also hit 1 mill playerbase after F2P conversion. But no since it is BW so it must be lying.

No.....because it's James Ohlen it must be lying....

MrSchnuffi · March 2013

If he really thinks the problem was how fast people reached level-cap, he hasn't learnt anything. The problem was the lack of content at level-cap. A dozens dailies on two planets, a gear progression which made no sense and no crafting where someone could sink time in a rewarding way were the problems. The disccrepance between requirements for group and raid content (you don't have to be a genius to see that 1 tank per group and 1 tank per raid (enrage timer made it impossible to take 2 tanks on your 8man raid) results in trouble) was another one.

It took me maybe 4 weeks to reach level-cap and probabely 2 weeks (I raided 3 times) to get almost complete T2-raidgear. It was an entertaining game to play through once but unfortunately there was (for me) no reason to stay.

ktanner3 · March 2013

Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
For someone who completely dispises SWTOR, you sure love to bring us all the latest news (which put SWTOR in negative light ofcourse) about it OP. When i usually dislike something i just walk away...never to look back.

That's what most people do. I don't like EVE, but you don't see me hanging around their forums whining about the game. In fact I praised them recently for hitting their ten year mark and reaching 500,000 subs. Not every game can be my cup of tea, but I don't hold a grudge on those games that aren't for me. To me it's strange to hold a grudge against a game of all things. Oh well, at least we're getting NEW threads instead of necroing old ones. I guess that's progress.

I can understand why very few SWTOR fans bother to hang around on these forums anymore.

Or a fan of any MMO for that matter because a lot of people like holding grudges against a lot of games around here.

However, on topic of being content locust i hit rank 13 and finished all missions and regions in less than a Month in TSW. It is the only MMO i know which launched with such a pathrtic little amount of content. Maybe that is why the game had to go B2P to save its behind and so many people were laid off? makes sense.

Glass houses and all...lol

I do think that these guys did a poor job on doing their homework for how MMOs historically go on release. Anyone that has followed this industry even as an armchair analyst knows that hyped games get a mad rush of content locusts who burn through the content by playing for mad hours every day. I'm a very casual player who was alternating between three characters and even I got my first level 50 character in three months. It's obvious they were unprepared for all the quick high levels because the first bad reports about Ilum were coming out within the first three weeks. That's just bad planning pure and simple.

I'll will give the guy props for his candor.

taus01 · March 2013

Originally posted by DalekThay
I played quite casually. I listened to all the dialogue, explored the worlds for holocrons, did all the 'bonus' quests, etc. It only took me a month and a half to hit cap. We're talking 4 hours a day maximum, 3 days a week kind of casual.

How, in the name of Bender's shiny metal ass, could they have possibly ever even thought that it would take 5 months to hit the cap? HOW?!? Did they have no hardcore players on their staff? In the beta test? Did they not ask anybody? Didn't they playtest the freaking thing?!?

As you might have noticed by now, all MMO Companies are completely out of touch with reality.

One big reason is how these games are developed. They make an internal proof of concept for the various systems and finish off one small part of the game, usually one map or zone and an instance. These are tested for stability and feature completeness over and over until they are fairly stable and working.

Everything then is extrapolated from it. It takes the test team 4 hours to finish the starter planet. Multiply it by 3 because players don't know the game yet and testers can play it in their sleep. Multiply it by number of areas and instances. Add expected travel times ( also made up out of thin air as they don't really know it yet ) and you end up with fantasy numbers like 200 hours.

If you expect a casual player to play 2 hour sessions per day on average. 200 hours would be a bit more than 3 months.

It's sad but true, they have no clue.

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James Ohlen on GDC, discussed SWTOR problems

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James Ohlen on GDC, discussed SWTOR problems

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