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MMO are dying.

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  • PsiKahnPsiKahn Woodside, NYPosts: 126Member

    The opinion that most modern MMOs do not foster the sense of community that made some earlier titles so exciting is a commonly held one, and it's fair.  The emphasis on the single player experience within MMOs and stagnant (or inconsequential) end-game has indeed lessened the likelihood of generating new communities in-game, though outside communities can certainly graft themselves into them (i.e. guilds).  This trend is a direct result of the tradtionally high production costs of MMOs, requiring most titles to follow a play-it-safe approach, and a history of learning the wrong lessons from predecessors.

    We are hardly nearing the end of the MMO. In fact, in the scheme of history we are looking at only the very beginning.  But the genre is certainly evolving, and I do believe we are at a bit of a crossroads, only now taking stock of the post-WoW fallout.  WoW pulled the amazing trick of grabbing existing MMO fans with a well-executed evolution of the genre that also proved palatable to a large audience of new players who found the game more accessible (and better marketed) than previous titles, but make no mistake, its features were not designed to foster community building and many of them had the opposite effect (instancing, soloability).  Other developers thought they could tap into the WoW fanbase by picking up many of the games features in "clone" titles.  Some years later, after several big-budget disappointments, they're realizing that their strategy was all wrong.  In a game like WoW, players invest a lot of time in leveling and gearing up a character.  There's little incentive to start over in a new game that provides a pretty similar experience, even if it looks marginally better.  Moreover, many of the genre's purported "evolutions" actually put it in more direct competition with single-player games rather than taking advantage of the very "massive" aspect that defines the genre. What some developers are now starting to realize is that you're not likely to beat WoW at their own game because you're not fighting for an as-of-yet-untapped pool of new users, you're fighting largely for existing users who don't have much incentive to switch.  That's right, WoW got pretty much everyone who's really interested in that kind of game via word-of-mouth or marketing.  There's no untapped market to speak of for WoW clones, so if you want users for that kind of game, you need to wrest them from WoW's icy grip.

    Developers are much more likely to poach WoW's userbase by offering something substantially different, or more likely chip away at it.  This would be best accomplished with niche style games who business model isn't predicated on massive numbers.  Technological advances now allows MMOs to be produced and maintained more cheaply than in years past.  Also, sandbox-style features have proven a cost-effective fountain of youth of gameplay, requiring far less developer hours and renewable gameplay compared to the content grind of expansions that can never outpace user demand.  These games might find new users as they could offer experiences that are desirable to players that were not interested in a WoW-style game, despite the marketing.  Once smaller games have tested some largely untried ideas, expect the next huge MMO to distill some of those experiences into a big budget title the way WoW did, but I don't think you'll see that big title for at least 5 years.

  • calranthecalranthe stoke on trentPosts: 356Member
    EVE is an mmo where community is rife, Being in one of the bigger alliances I have made some really solid friends who have gone beyond game to real life.
  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by calranthe
    EVE is an mmo where community is rife, Being in one of the bigger alliances I have made some really solid friends who have gone beyond game to real life.

    ^+1

    Also all hail our goonswarm overlords o.o

    image
  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Skuz
    You make some interesting observations, but using those same observations is how MMO's will get back to their roots, voice communications, facebook & twitter, those were really extrapolations of what was once found in MMO's, the niche community, then those concepts went mainstream & in the process maybe got diluted.I can see a trend emerge where MMO's will be even better than in their niche days when they fully embrace all of those social interaction tools, and tools is really all they are in the same way the chat box in an mmo was a tool, to connect people with a common interest.I don't see MMO as dying, just going through a phase that they have to re-invent themselves in & adapt to the new interaction standards, the potential is that MMO's will be able to reach a more diverse & far expanded range of people.

    this is a great response and i agree totally.


  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,230Member Uncommon

    the community doesn't come with a box ^^

     

    it's actually found in guilds and co. try looking there.

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by azzamasin Thats why there are more then 200 MMO's in development in any given year.     Yup MMO's are dying!!!!!  On the otherhand, maybe there arent games you want to play but to say they are dying is hyperbole at best.
    They can make 2000 MMOs, the number doesn't matter when the themepark garbage mass produced is the equivilant of hip hop in the music industry that targets kids. Its "cool" for the week that it's on the radio, then never heard again. Unlike sandboxes which are the 80s songs that are still played everyday. Why? Because they are simply better, made sense, and can be related with.

    the best mmo's IMO have not been sandbox games, your opinion is just an opinion and i honestly cannot stand the sandbox bandwaggoning that goes on here.

    EQ and Daoc are two of my favorite mmo's of all time which both had excellent communities and both were *gasp* theme park games, go figure huh?

    MMO's don't have to be sandbox to be good, unless that's all you like to play, then i would say that is your personal issue.


  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by baphamet

    the best mmo's IMO have not been sandbox games, your opinion is just an opinion and i honestly cannot stand the sandbox bandwaggoning that goes on here.

     

    MMO's don't have to be sandbox to be good, unless that's all you like to play, then i would say that is your personal issue.

     

    heck .. games do not even have to be a "true" MMO to be good. And of coures "good" is personal preference.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by baphamet

     


    Originally posted by NorseGod

    Originally posted by azzamasin Thats why there are more then 200 MMO's in development in any given year.     Yup MMO's are dying!!!!!  On the otherhand, maybe there arent games you want to play but to say they are dying is hyperbole at best.
    They can make 2000 MMOs, the number doesn't matter when the themepark garbage mass produced is the equivilant of hip hop in the music industry that targets kids. Its "cool" for the week that it's on the radio, then never heard again. Unlike sandboxes which are the 80s songs that are still played everyday. Why? Because they are simply better, made sense, and can be related with.

     

    the best mmo's IMO have not been sandbox games and that is your opinion, your opinion is just an opinion and i honestly cannot stand the sandbox bandwaggoning that goes on here.

    EQ and Daoc are two of my favorite mmo's of all time which both had excellent communities and both were *gasp* theme park games, go figure huh?and that is your opinion

    MMO's don't have to be sandbox to be good, unless that's all you like to play, then i would say that is your personal issue. and that is your opinion

     

    Doesn't change the fact that these amazing games you boast about coming out every year only last a month or so, or, technically they last :rollseyes:, I mean hobble along with gimmicks.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • GamerUntouchGamerUntouch smithville ON, ONPosts: 488Member

    Disagree.

    The sense of community is dieing.

     

    Release any sandbox MMO from ages ago and we'll get the same result.

    The playerbase is simply not the same anymore.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by NorseGod
     

    Doesn't change the fact that these amazing games you boast about coming out every year only last a month or so, or, technically they last :rollseyes:, I mean hobble along with gimmicks.

    So what? A great fun 1 month is better than a mediocre 1 year.

    Entertainment does not have to be long to be good. Is a longer movie always better? Is a longer novel always better?

     

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by NorseGod
     

    Doesn't change the fact that these amazing games you boast about coming out every year only last a month or so, or, technically they last :rollseyes:, I mean hobble along with gimmicks.

    So what? A great fun 1 month is better than a mediocre 1 year.

    Entertainment does not have to be long to be good. Is a longer movie always better? Is a longer novel always better?

     

     

    Novels and movies need a certain length to have enough time to develop their characters and describe their world.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by NorseGod
     

    Doesn't change the fact that these amazing games you boast about coming out every year only last a month or so, or, technically they last :rollseyes:, I mean hobble along with gimmicks.

    So what? A great fun 1 month is better than a mediocre 1 year.

     

     

    Except that they aren't great fun.

    And no, I think companies and players much prefer fun that lasts a long time. Players don't have to pay as much, and developers have long term sustained growth. Stop being delusional.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by NorseGod
     

    Doesn't change the fact that these amazing games you boast about coming out every year only last a month or so, or, technically they last :rollseyes:, I mean hobble along with gimmicks.

    So what? A great fun 1 month is better than a mediocre 1 year.

    Entertainment does not have to be long to be good. Is a longer movie always better? Is a longer novel always better?

     

     

    Novels and movies need a certain length to have enough time to develop their characters and describe their world.

    And a game needs certain length to show you the game mechanics, and have fun ... and one month is way more than enough. Heck, a few hours is enough.

    If I can start to have fun in a Sp game within the first hour, MMO should too.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by NorseGod
     

    Doesn't change the fact that these amazing games you boast about coming out every year only last a month or so, or, technically they last :rollseyes:, I mean hobble along with gimmicks.

    So what? A great fun 1 month is better than a mediocre 1 year.

    Entertainment does not have to be long to be good. Is a longer movie always better? Is a longer novel always better?

     

    True. But what about those MMOs that were good to play for years at a time?

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by NorseGod
     

    Doesn't change the fact that these amazing games you boast about coming out every year only last a month or so, or, technically they last :rollseyes:, I mean hobble along with gimmicks.

    So what? A great fun 1 month is better than a mediocre 1 year.

    Entertainment does not have to be long to be good. Is a longer movie always better? Is a longer novel always better?

     

    True. But what about those MMOs that were good to play for years at a time?

    What about those? Some long movie is good. Some short movie is good. I watched both. Some long MMO is good .. like WOW .. i played it for years. But that does not mean that i am prejudice against short games and MMOs.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    A fun MMO takes years of time to fully enjoy even while having fun during it, it's the ADD/instant gratification crowd that has made MMOs into the one month wonders they are today and no the sense of community hasn't died, it's the fact that you really shouldn't bother with a game that will last you one month that's killing communities.

    don't confuse your preference to everyone's elses.

    I enjoy STO and it does not take years. Heck, i play it like a SP game in the story mission content. Don't tell me i don't know what is fun for me. I have no intention of playing it for years. I will finish some of the missions and move on. Oh i may come back here and there ... fun for me.

    And i don't play games because of community. I have friends, and can find people to play with in almost all onlnie games.

    I play short term MMOs all the time and i have fun.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    A fun MMO takes years of time to fully enjoy even while having fun during it, it's the ADD/instant gratification crowd that has made MMOs into the one month wonders they are today and no the sense of community hasn't died, it's the fact that you really shouldn't bother with a game that will last you one month that's killing communities.

    don't confuse your preference to everyone's elses.

    I enjoy STO and it does not take years. Heck, i play it like a SP game in the story mission content. Don't tell me i don't know what is fun for me. I have no intention of playing it for years. I will finish some of the missions and move on. Oh i may come back here and there ... fun for me.

    And i don't play games because of community. I have friends, and can find people to play with in almost all onlnie games.

    I play short term MMOs all the time and i have fun.

    whoever said I told you to play for years? I've played many MMOs over the years but the only two I've kept going back to are STO and EVE, STO because it's worth the short visit, EVE because I've made actual friends in that game. Do not mistake my own words for your own biases against actual MMOs and love of  Co-Op games with no SP.

     

    PS: I said you could have fun in a MMO without investment but to fully enjoy it you need time, months, years, etc, which is true even in STO, check fleet mechanics ;).

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  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member

    Silly MMOs and their dying genre.  I mean who plays GAMES for GAMEPLAY?

    There are actually a few non-combat or less combat focused "MMOs" that focus on the world and human interaction with no real gameplay  Games like Furcadia, Second Life, The Endless Forest, Drift City.  You could even maybe consider browser based cash grabs like anything with Ville in the name MMOs focused on the world and human interaction.  Even GW2 tried to promote more social interaction beyond just the "bubble" of your guild too, but you seem to think it's just another hack and slash game.

    Not to mention if you look ahead a year or so you'll see that MMOs are starting to trend back towards the concept of "virtual world" and increasing social and sandbox elements in the game.

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    Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:
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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    PS: I said you could have fun in a MMO without investment but to fully enjoy it you need time, months, years, etc, which is true even in STO, check fleet mechanics ;).

    No .. you said, and i quote "you really shouldn't bother with a game that will last you one month that's killing communities."

    Why shouldn't I when i can have fun for a month?

  • xSh0xxSh0x Scottsdale, AZPosts: 125Member
    Themepark inspired MMOs are dying.  Its been a dead end theory from the start.  The market will adjust.  There's just too much money and interest for MMO's die as a whole.
  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    PS: I said you could have fun in a MMO without investment but to fully enjoy it you need time, months, years, etc, which is true even in STO, check fleet mechanics ;).

    No .. you said, and i quote "you really shouldn't bother with a game that will last you one month that's killing communities."

    Why shouldn't I when i can have fun for a month?

    Yes as in only last you just one month and never go back to it, I can name tons of MMOs that have this quality, most of em have since sunk and got the plug pulled. If you want to have fun for only one month and only one then might I suggest a SP game with a MP component? Terraria perhaps or Minecraft? Because you're obviously not playing an MMO for it's MMO qualities.

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  • TsaboHavocTsaboHavoc PinheiralPosts: 351Member
    allow me to do a sensible observation: mmos arent dying, mmoRPGS are dying...
  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    PS: I said you could have fun in a MMO without investment but to fully enjoy it you need time, months, years, etc, which is true even in STO, check fleet mechanics ;).

    No .. you said, and i quote "you really shouldn't bother with a game that will last you one month that's killing communities."

    Why shouldn't I when i can have fun for a month?

    Yes as in only last you just one month and never go back to it, I can name tons of MMOs that have this quality, most of em have since sunk and got the plug pulled. If you want to have fun for only one month and only one then might I suggest a SP game with a MP component? Terraria perhaps or Minecraft? Because you're obviously not playing an MMO for it's MMO qualities.

    No one should be accepting of this idea of a game designed to last only a month. Even the transient players would benefit from more longevity in a title because the community would be bigger, the company more secure finanacially, and the edge of game design would be pushed further rather than contracting into MMO Fast Food models.

    The future should be inclusive, finding ways to multi-engage your audience.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    If you want to have fun for only one month and only one then might I suggest a SP game with a MP component? Terraria perhaps or Minecraft? Because you're obviously not playing an MMO for it's MMO qualities.

    Of course i am playing SP games with MP componenets. I hope you don't expect i only play MMOs.

    And no, i don't play MMO for its "MMO" (classic?) qualities. I play them for fun .. and that means no matter which of its quality appeals to me, i play it.

  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by azzamasin

    Thats why there are more then 200 MMO's in development in any given year.

     

     

    Yup MMO's are dying!!!!!  On the otherhand, maybe there arent games you want to play but to say they are dying is hyperbole at best.

    They can make 2000 MMOs, the number doesn't matter when the themepark garbage mass produced is the equivilant of hip hop in the music industry that targets kids. Its "cool" for the week that it's on the radio, then never heard again. Unlike sandboxes which are the 80s songs that are still played everyday. Why? Because they are simply better, made sense, and can be related with.

    You are so incredibly close minded on multiple topics.  Its amazing.  I hope you don't have kids.

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